As a 5w4 my identity is constructed around my ideas, my knowledge, and my individuality. But when I look at the basic fears behind each type, I realize that I'm quite confidant in my identity and don't fear losing myself (4) nearly as much as I fear being ignorant (5) - my self esteem drops the most when feeling incompetent or stupid. As a cerebreal type, my self worth is directly tied in to my ideas and insight, and when I lack understanding I feel helpless or inferior.I'm 5w4 and strongly identify with both descriptions, but I studied the types, not the wings, and found that on a default level I am five. It's important to remember that the ennegram studies the motivations behind what we do, what our driving forces and fears are. Take a look at these core descriptions:
Fours
- wants to be seen as gifted, intuitive, original, unique
- fear having no identity, no personal significance
- key motivation is wanting to express self/individuality
- maintain their identity by seeing themselves as fundamentally different from others
Fives
- wants to be seen as intelligent, informed, knowledgable, perceptive
- fear being useless, helpless, or incapable.
- key motivation is wanting to possess knowledge and understanding
- maintain their identity by seeing themselves as full of ideas/having something unusual or insightful to say
Another important thing to look at is the main insecurity of each type:
"In the course of their lives, Fours may try several different identities on for size, basing them on styles, preferences, or qualities they find attractive in others. But underneath the surface, they still feel uncertain about who they really are. The problem is that they base their identity largely on their feelings."
"Behind Fives’ relentless pursuit of knowledge are deep insecurities about their ability to function successfully in the world. Rather than engage directly with activities that might bolster their confidence, Fives “take a step back” into their minds where they feel more capable. Their belief is that from the safety of their minds they will eventually figure out how to do things—and one day rejoin the world."
I am a 5 because my most basic insecurities lie in the fear of participating in the real world. I feel I don't have adaquete knowledge to function. When this fear kicks in, I set aside all pressing problems in my day-to-day life -- finance, relationship, etc -- and focus on learning something. ("If I acheive fluency in this new language, then I will be prepared enough to face the world."). It gives me a skewed sense of competency. Learning a new theory isn't going to make me feel any better about that job interview, but the time spent learning that theory lets me be where I am comfortable (inside my head) and lets me ignore what I am uncomfortable with (interaction with the world).
So if you are questioning 5w4 or 4w5, ask yourself what your coping mechanisms are:
4 - copes by spending time alone with emotions, enhancing them
5 - copes by spending time alone with ideas, detaching from emotion
As an INFP this was confusing at first, because I'm "supposed" to identify more with the feeling side of things, but at my core I'm simply more comfortable in the realm of thought than the realm of emotion. I think fours long for experience/expression, whereas fives long for clarification/understanding - fours might claim to experience the "self" at a level more profound than other types, whereas fives might claim to experience "understanding" at a more profound level.
Of course.Is it possible to have both of these in your tritype?
Yes, and if you're a 5w4 and a 4w5 like me with 4w5 as second fix and strong w4... Things get confusing. Really confusing.Is it possible to have both of these in your tritype?
I'm pretty sure I'd be 5w4 and then 9w1, but then if the third needs to be a 'heart' triad, I'd definitely fit 4 more than 2 or 3.
Either that, or I could maybe possibly fit 7w8, as a second 'head'.
As an INTP 4w5, I think I can offer a different perspective. I've bolded the parts I relate to in Stolen's post. As an INTP, a wing 5, and having 5 in my tritype, I can relate very strongly to many aspects of the 5 descriptions--and actually they sound more like me than most 4 descriptions. However, the difference in my opinion becomes clearer when you really look into the motivations and see where these things come from.I'm 5w4 and strongly identify with both descriptions, but I studied the types, not the wings, and found that on a default level I am five. It's important to remember that the ennegram studies the motivations behind what we do, what our driving forces and fears are. Take a look at these core descriptions:
Fours
- wants to be seen as gifted, intuitive, original, unique
- fear having no identity, no personal significance
- key motivation is wanting to express self/individuality
- maintain their identity by seeing themselves as fundamentally different from others
Fives
- wants to be seen as intelligent, informed, knowledgable, perceptive
- fear being useless, helpless, or incapable.
- key motivation is wanting to possess knowledge and understanding
- maintain their identity by seeing themselves as full of ideas/having something unusual or insightful to say
Another important thing to look at is the main insecurity of each type:
"In the course of their lives, Fours may try several different identities on for size, basing them on styles, preferences, or qualities they find attractive in others. But underneath the surface, they still feel uncertain about who they really are. The problem is that they base their identity largely on their feelings."
"Behind Fives’ relentless pursuit of knowledge are deep insecurities about their ability to function successfully in the world. Rather than engage directly with activities that might bolster their confidence, Fives “take a step back” into their minds where they feel more capable. Their belief is that from the safety of their minds they will eventually figure out how to do things—and one day rejoin the world."
I am a 5 because my most basic insecurities lie in the fear of participating in the real world. I feel I don't have adaquete knowledge to function. When this fear kicks in, I set aside all pressing problems in my day-to-day life -- finance, relationship, etc -- and focus on learning something. ("If I acheive fluency in this new language, then I will be prepared enough to face the world."). It gives me a skewed sense of competency. Learning a new theory isn't going to make me feel any better about that job interview, but the time spent learning that theory lets me be where I am comfortable (inside my head) and lets me ignore what I am uncomfortable with (interaction with the world).
So if you are questioning 5w4 or 4w5, ask yourself what your coping mechanisms are:
4 - copes by spending time alone with emotions, enhancing them
5 - copes by spending time alone with ideas, detaching from emotion
As an INFP this was confusing at first, because I'm "supposed" to identify more with the feeling side of things, but at my core I'm simply more comfortable in the realm of thought than the realm of emotion. I think fours long for experience/expression, whereas fives long for clarification/understanding - fours might claim to experience the "self" at a level more profound than other types, whereas fives might claim to experience "understanding" at a more profound level.
I don't think all Fours will necessarily see themselves as "romantic" in the common, every-day sense of the word. They are reactive types, which means they might be perceived as irrational by other types at times, but that's probably not how they view themselves.Aren't 4's more romantic and irrational?
I agree. This is a wider phenomenon, logical types don't see themselves as emotionless and cold, etc. Some characteristics are more visible 'from the other side of the street'I don't think all Fours will necessarily see themselves as "romantic" in the common, every-day sense of the word. They are reactive types, which means they might be perceived as irrational by other types at times, but that's probably not how they view themselves.
Fours and Fives share many traits in common and can easily be mistyped, especially when the wing is strong. Both types are frequently introspective, intellectually inclined and prone to withdrawal. The principle difference lies in the relationship that each type has to emotional experience. Fours generally know exactly how they are feeling and are generally comfortable dealing with emotional expressions from others. Fives, on the other hand, tend to detach from direct emotional experience under stress, and need to take time to process their emotional response. Finally, Fours are more inclined to self-revelation than are Fives, who generally find self-disclosure to be especially taxing."
."Fours and Fives can easily be mistyped by others, and Fives, especially with the Four wing, sometimes mistype as Fours. Such Fives recognize that they have strong emotions and don't identify with the often extremely cerebral portrait of type Five. But, Fives, unlike Fours, always retain some degree of discomfort when it comes to the experience and expression of their emotional states. Fives tend to fear emotional overwhelm; Fours to welcome it.
Surprising, if your nickname is true, one would almost expect your core type to be 5w6.I have this problem since both 5w4 and 4w5 are present in my tritype. To confirm, would a sign of this and not the other way around be that I begin to become more emotional under stress (but keep it in).
That's a pretty interesting observation. However, wouldn't 5w6 be more likely to take up real-life matters? My study is centered around creativity in using math. Like a kid playing with Legos, I like using math to make something new. I also see how the different pieces of a mathematical formula or concept is "beautiful", as I've read in a 5w4 description and found to be true. I try to see applications of math theory and its creative usage that I will like, with other things that I can use somewhere to create something.Surprising, if your nickname is true, one would almost expect your core type to be 5w6.