[Thrifty Walrus]

It seems every five I've ever met/seen has been a 5w4. I'm just wondering if there are even any other 5w6's out there!

I suppose I should ask some sort of question..... what do you think is the biggest difference between 5w4's and 5w6's?

I would say it's the socialness, I would say 5w4's have a small need to be social, but are more socially awkward. Where as a 5w6 doesn't really desire any socialness, but they have more social ease (it just ends up going to waste).

 

[perennialurker]

From what I've read and from my personal experience, its the opposite. 5w4s tend to be easier to relate to through their 4 wing and artistic/humanistic traits, but are generally more content being by themselves as they are happy to be in their own world. 5w6s on the other hand, are far less personable and far more detached, sequential, and logical. They deal in math, hard science, and impersonal systems rather than literature and art, making them less relatable to most people. However the 6 wing also causes them to desire acceptance from others resulting in the oft-mentioned "uneasy truce" between the 5w6s' desire to be socially accepted and have companionship and their desire to maintain their independence. So I would say 5w6s are the ones more apt to desire social acceptance and yet less likely to be able to achieve it. I too seem to encounter more 5w6s than 5w4s. 5w4s are generally considered to be the cooler of the two types also as they have the John Lennon's and Tim Burton's, while we have Nietzsche, so in that sense I think this is a good thread to start.

 

[ThoughtProcess]

I'm a 5w6 and I'd have to say that I agree with Perennialurker. There are times when I want to be part of a larger group but, I just can't seem to get out of my own way long enough to make it happen.

 

[Thrifty Walrus]

Perhaps it's the whole "you want want you don't have" thing, 5w4's don't "need" social acceptance because they have it. Kind of like if you already have food, you don't "need" it anymore. Probably because not wanting to be accepted is more socially acceptable nowadays then wanting to be accepted and be a part of a group XD

 

[vel]

According to this website Enneagram Personality Type 5 it states:

If you are the Enneagram Type 5 with the 4 Wing, you desire to appear imaginative. You see yourself as aloof, understated, penetrating, intuitive, inquisitive and quiet.

If you are the Enneagram Type 5 with the 6 Wing, you desire to appear intellectual. You see yourself as changeable, receptive, careful, whimsical and trustworthy.

So I think wing 4 gives one more of desire for individualistic expression of thought. Sounds like w4 aren't afraid to drift off a bit and imagine some bizarre things and they wouldn't be as upset if they don't appear well-grounded to others. While wing 6 sounds like they are better grounded, probably likely to bounce their ideas against experimental results, need hard evidence to believe things, possibly have desire to make their idea more acceptable to others and practical.

I identify with w6 adjectives more possibly because the J in INFJ makes me favor practical, useful ideas over ideas that I think are just fanciful.

 

[Tay92]

I disagree with both Thrifty Walrus & perennialurker, I am 5w6, but I do not have social ease by any means, nor do I have the desire to be socially accepted. I am glad to be an individual, and not "follow the crowd". Occasionally I want acceptance, but not necessarily based on the things that relate me to most people. I want to find the people I can connect with on my own level, not just connect on a meaningless basis.

 

[Thrifty Walrus]

I disagree with both Thrifty Walrus & perennialurker, I am 5w6, but I do not have social ease by any means, nor do I have the desire to be socially accepted. I am glad to be an individual, and not "follow the crowd". Occasionally I want acceptance, but not necessarily based on the things that relate me to most people. I want to find the people I can connect with on my own level, not just connect on a meaningless basis.

That is exactly what we're talking about. I also like being an individual and wouldn't want to become a "sheep", but I'd still like to be in a group. Especially if it was with other people who didn't want to be "sheep"!

 

[ObsidianShadow1]

I've actually started to become interested in the Enneagram, and I took the test and it said I was a 5w6.

 

[suicidal_orange]

I'm a 5w6 but I don't really have anything to add to this thread. It's nice to know I'm not alone though.

 

[nevermore]

From what I've read and from my personal experience, its the opposite. 5w4s tend to be easier to relate to through their 4 wing and artistic/humanistic traits, but are generally more content being by themselves as they are happy to be in their own world. 5w6s on the other hand, are far less personable and far more detached, sequential, and logical. They deal in math, hard science, and impersonal systems rather than literature and art, making them less relatable to most people. However the 6 wing also causes them to desire acceptance from others resulting in the oft-mentioned "uneasy truce" between the 5w6s' desire to be socially accepted and have companionship and their desire to maintain their independence. So I would say 5w6s are the ones more apt to desire social acceptance and yet less likely to be able to achieve it. I too seem to encounter more 5w6s than 5w4s. 5w4s are generally considered to be the cooler of the two types also as they have the John Lennon's and Tim Burton's, while we have Nietzsche, so in that sense I think this is a good thread to start.

The difference between being a 4 wing and a 6 wing is not being into art/literature vs. being into hard science. It is (more or less) fearing a loss of individulaity and lack of personal significance vs. fearing being disliked and rejected by others. Both in addition to (and not as prominant as) the fear of being incompetent and the tendency to detach and withdraw.

Some Points:

1. Most 5w4's seem to be INTP, which tends to be the most logical of all types because of dominant Ti and a preference for abstraction. So 5w4's are not necessarily less logical.

2. Being logical does not preclude an interest in art and literature! Whether or not we make decisions guided by them, we all have emotions! Plus, any NT would have the creative proclvities of N, which would help them appreciate the extreme creativity found in these fields.

3. Most great NT novelists were INTJ, and most INTJ's are 5w6.

4. A person can be into both art and hard science!

Can I just also add that logical =/= sequential. Nor does values-based = holistic. There is a difference between Ti and Te, and Fi and Fe for that matter. This might seem persnickety, but this is not widely known and it leads to a lot of confusion, especially amongst Fi types.

NB. Perhaps there is a correlation of interests with E type/wing. I'm not denying that, but I think this needs to be said. It would be a shame if, say, a 5w6 mistyped themselves as a 5w4 because they thought they "could not be into the arts" if they were 5w6.

 

[perennialurker]

The difference between being a 4 wing and a 6 wing is not being into art/literature vs. being into hard science. It is (more or less) fearing a loss of individulaity and lack of personal significance vs. fearing being disliked and rejected by others. Both in addition to (and not as prominant as) the fear of being incompetent and the tendency to detach and withdraw.

Some Points:

1. Most 5w4's seem to be INTP, which tends to be the most logical of all types because of dominant Ti and a preference for abstraction. So 5w4's are not necessarily less logical.

2. Being logical does not preclude an interest in art and literature! Whether or not we make decisions guided by them, we all have emotions! Plus, any NT would have the creative proclvities of N, which would help them appreciate the extreme creativity found in these fields.

3. Most great NT novelists were INTJ, and most INTJ's are 5w6.

4. A person can be into both art and hard science!

Can I just also add that logical =/= sequential. Nor does values-based = holistic. There is a difference between Ti and Te, and Fi and Fe for that matter. This might seem persnickety, but this is not widely known and it leads to a lot of confusion, especially amongst Fi types.

NB. Perhaps there is a correlation of interests with E type/wing. I'm not denying that, but I think this needs to be said. It would be a shame if, say, a 5w6 mistyped themselves as a 5w4 because they thought they "could not be into the arts" if they were 5w6.

I think these are all good points. Clearly you have given this more thought than I have. I agree with everything you have said, but I would just clarify that perhaps what I meant to say was that 5w6's desire to appear more logical. I agree completely though that 5w4s can be just as logical (perhaps more), and that both types can be interested in the arts AND/OR hard science. I also agree that the first part about the concerns of individualism and rejection are MUCH better distinctions than what I made. I would just say that I have read more than once that 5w6s tend to have a more sequential order of reasoning, but that is not to demean the value of 5w4s' more wholistic and potentially more creative approach. Hopefully this time I have articulated my views better than last time (which was clearly my fault):frustrating:

 

[nevermore]

No, no, no...don't be hard on yourself! Just my silly INTP desire to correct everything to make it consistent with "the Truth":wink:. Totally impersonal criticism. I get it now. You articulated your views very well.:happy: Perhaps the 5w6 does have a desire to appear more logical...I didn't see that in the descriptions but it wouldn't surprise me. If you're 5w6, I'll take your word for it.:wink: I just thought a sequential order of reasoning had to do more with MBTI type than anything else; perhaps since more INTJ's (who use a sequential order of reasoning) are 5w6, the people who wrote the Enneagram descriptions conflated the two. (E type is motivation, Jungian type is thinking style). So an INTP 5w6 would think holistically, and an INTJ 5w4 would think linearly...at least I would imagine.

Thanks for the compliment on the description, though.:happy:

 

[Thrifty Walrus]

The difference between being a 4 wing and a 6 wing is not being into art/literature vs. being into hard science. It is (more or less) fearing a loss of individulaity and lack of personal significance vs. fearing being disliked and rejected by others. Both in addition to (and not as prominant as) the fear of being incompetent and the tendency to detach and withdraw.

Some Points:

1. Most 5w4's seem to be INTP, which tends to be the most logical of all types because of dominant Ti and a preference for abstraction. So 5w4's are not necessarily less logical.

2. Being logical does not preclude an interest in art and literature! Whether or not we make decisions guided by them, we all have emotions! Plus, any NT would have the creative proclvities of N, which would help them appreciate the extreme creativity found in these fields.

3. Most great NT novelists were INTJ, and most INTJ's are 5w6.

4. A person can be into both art and hard science!

Can I just also add that logical =/= sequential. Nor does values-based = holistic. There is a difference between Ti and Te, and Fi and Fe for that matter. This might seem persnickety, but this is not widely known and it leads to a lot of confusion, especially amongst Fi types.

NB. Perhaps there is a correlation of interests with E type/wing. I'm not denying that, but I think this needs to be said. It would be a shame if, say, a 5w6 mistyped themselves as a 5w4 because they thought they "could not be into the arts" if they were 5w6.

I think that led to me mistyping myself as a 5w4 for quite some time.

 

[nevermore]

yeah...I think you'd be hard pressed to find an N type not generally into the arts actually...

 

[perennialurker]

I wasn't being hard on myself or taking it personally. I just feel compelled to acknowledge when someone else logically points out my mistakes. Even though you immediately and graciously rushed to accept my acknowledgement. Wouldn't the world be more peaceful, productive, and fair-minded if we 5s ruled?:tongue:

Oh and I am a very strong N with virtually no interest in the arts.

 

[nevermore]

I wasn't being hard on myself or taking it personally. I just feel compelled to acknowledge when someone else logically points out my mistakes. Even though you immediately and graciously rushed to accept my acknowledgement. Wouldn't the world be more peaceful, productive, and fair-minded if we 5s ruled?:tongue:

Oh and I am a very strong N with virtually no interest in the arts.

Agreed.:happy:

 

[Jomama]

<-- 5w6 SO/SP

 

[The Exception]

Another 5w6 so/sp here. I think so/sp is a fairly common stacking for 5w6 and quite rare in 5w4.

 

[arleccio]

ants always fall on the right side when poisoned

Anyone else finds it interesting that most people in here who actually wrote something about being 5w6 are not even listed as 5, yet those who are haven't said much?

I think my stacking is so/sp, but I haven't really checked that yet. Still determining whether 5w6 is truly the best fit.

Mathematics and I have a strained relationship. If explained in plain words I understand. If written in formula I see gibberish. It's still utterly fascinating.
I'm more inclined towards arts and languages.

I have no problem being in large crowds as long as I am allowed to watch their interaction rather than participate. I find small groups more draining because it's more likely that someone notices my presence and tries to "include" me or whatever because I've been so quiet...

I find that many people try to appear more intelligent by wording their questions ambivalent. Or maybe they simply don't know what they want to know. Or maybe that's perfectly normal social code and everyone else understands and knows which kind of answer is required and only I missed that particular lesson. Anyways, I always seem to take them by surprise with whatever I say. Which surprises me in turn, since I actually answered truthfully.

Though when I believe a question to be ridiculous I answer in kind.
I swear sometimes it seems as if I'm walking around with a big neon sign floating above my head proclaiming "Don't ask simple questions. Please use the most complicated words you've ever heard. I will believe you to be more intelligent/my equal if you do."

Every once in a while however there is someone who does not seem to care. I mean I can kind of see that they are kind of in awe, or rather they acknowledge to themselves that they are likely less intelligent, but they don't try to prove that they can keep up with me. They are just innocently curious about how I see things. You know, like children. And unless it gets too personal I can be patient and elaborate.

 

[sodden]

I'm a 4w5 who has a 5 head fix in my tritype. It kind of seems natural to assign it the 4 wing, but I think it might be 5w6.

I get the impression that 5w4s are more into esoteric spiritual concepts, eg, Buddhism, transcendental meditation, etc, while 5w6s are more into the real, tangible world. Would others agree? I, for one, feel more connected to the universe/ get more excited observing and contemplating an ant hill than I do meditating.

Guess this is what I'm thinking of:

5w4s believe what's counterintuitive and paradoxical takes precedence over accepted truth since it's both more aesthetic/elegant and harder to be accepted. They believe fate and rare unexplainable phenomena are tied to something that both underlies and supercedes current reality and makes it richer. They think much of the world pales in comparison to their internal experience so they are less awed and apalled by worldly phenomena. They are less argumentative but snobbier.

5w6s are more naturally curious and never cease to find worldly phenomena that awes and interests them. They have a more uneasy truce with their emotions and are more focused on what's cutting edge in the intellectual and scientific realms. They feel powerful imagining what it's like to have a bird's eye view of what interests them. Many 5w6s incorrectly see themselves as 5w4s due to poor type descriptions that simplistically use "art or science" to distinguish between 5w4s and 5w6s.