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Discussion Starter #21
Well, I see no reason it can't be the answer.

The main reason I tended away from 8 is that I want to be 8, so it probably skews my perceptions there. However, I can't take the route of just claiming to be 8 because if I don't believe it, it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.

Another weakness of the 8 theory is that I don't think I am perceived as a natural leader. I have to plan out what I want to do, and work hard to achieve it. I can't just spontaneously take charge.


5w6 was something I had considered, and had no reason to reject. The 5w6, 1wX, 3wX theory is creative, and is the first thing I have seen that addresses behavior fully. The only thing I am still not sure of is the fundamental motivation. The whole 5 thing is appealing in some ways, but I can't see the neuroses as being my main ones. Perhaps I need more research here.

So/Sp is less clear to me. I can probably see the Sp, but the So would be derived from concern about the larger world? That would make sense if so.

I guess the summation is that I should read up more on this.
 

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Another weakness of the 8 theory is that I don't think I am perceived as a natural leader. I have to plan out what I want to do, and work hard to achieve it. I can't just spontaneously take charge.
This is a good insight. 8s end up dominating things whether they mean to or not. Actually, I'm a 8 who mistyped at 5w4 for a long time- because I don't believe it's necessary to dominate everything; I prefer the idea of going with the flow, and may the best person win. But, your enneagram type has nothing to do with your values - it's about your compulsions. I'm compelled to be in charge whether I decide to or not. I end up taking charge of everything whether I plan it that way or not - my apartment, my band, my social circle, even the threads on this forum that I enjoy. Exhibit A:


Anyway, there's nothing glamorous about it. If you read Naranjo's depiction of type 8 you can't possibly WANT to be that type.

http://personalitycafe.com/type-8-forum-challenger/134294-naranjos-character-neurosis-type-8-chapter.html


What I would ask you is, how come you CAN'T spontaneously take charge? Can you describe a situation in which you might have taken charge but didn't? And what went through your head? Also, can you describe more what you mean by 'need to plan?' I wouldn't rule out type 8 because you have a work ethic, but it's more the idea of planning/ saying you CAN'T be spontaneous that I am curious about.

I guess the summation is that I should read up more on this.
Yes it is so fascinating! And also, to speak for myself it has helped me grow more than I ever imagined I could grow from something like this.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
This is a good insight. 8s end up dominating things whether they mean to or not. Actually, I'm a 8 who mistyped at 5w4 for a long time- because I don't believe it's necessary to dominate everything; I prefer the idea of going with the flow, and may the best person win. But, your enneagram type has nothing to do with your values - it's about your compulsions. I'm compelled to be in charge whether I decide to or not. I end up taking charge of everything whether I plan it that way or not - my apartment, my band, my social circle, even the threads on this forum that I enjoy. Exhibit A:


Anyway, there's nothing glamorous about it. If you read Naranjo's depiction of type 8 you can't possibly WANT to be that type.

http://personalitycafe.com/type-8-forum-challenger/134294-naranjos-character-neurosis-type-8-chapter.html


What I would ask you is, how come you CAN'T spontaneously take charge? Can you describe a situation in which you might have taken charge but didn't? And what went through your head? Also, can you describe more what you mean by 'need to plan?' I wouldn't rule out type 8 because you have a work ethic, but it's more the idea of planning/ saying you CAN'T be spontaneous that I am curious about.


Yes it is so fascinating! And also, to speak for myself it has helped me grow more than I ever imagined I could grow from something like this.
Why can I not take charge spontaneously? Because I might be afraid of three things, depending on the scenario: 1, Someone more competent than me is present, and when I make a mistake because I don't really know what I am doing, they will take charge to fix things up, which is something I can't stand the thought of, let alone the reality. Or, 2, I am in the presence of an authority who might not like the way I do things, and could target me for 'misconduct' because no one asked me to order around my peers, co-workers, etc. Finally, 3, I might be in position where I can't really enforce my way of doing things on the others I am directing, so if they don't like it, they could damage me in some way.

An example of 1: I am notoriously bad at building things. In my labs at school, this tended to make me nervous, especially initially, because I couldn't rule out the possibility that I would mess everything up and be unable to get a good grade. As a result, I would defer to the lab partner because I automatically had more confidence in their ability to do things.

An example of 2: When dealing with siblings or peers in the youth organizations I participated in before I went to university, I was always keenly aware of the possibility that my superiors (parents, other leaders) might notice that I wanted to take charge of my peers, and then not like it and damage my position. There would be nothing I could if they chose to take that course because I was a subordinate. This hamstrung me.

An example of 3: Study groups and lab groups. They are inefficient and a waste of time. I try to direct them to the extent that I can, but sometimes have to sit back and fume while time is wasted because I can't risk offending them or they might not give me my share of the credit on the report, etc. Half of the time, I am able to direct them from the beginning, and if this is the case, then it goes well. But, if I miss my opportunity at the beginning, I end up having to sit and watch them waste time talking over stuff that could be decided in a moment.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
Does anyone see familiar themes in the above post, or is this a less common attitude to take? I would think it is pretty common, but again, I don't really know.
 

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my order of enneagram types 5,8,1,6,3,7,4,9,2 stacking: sp,sx,so MBTI: ENTJ socionics: LIE or LII (most likely LIE) and this is how you state rly obvious statements about yourself (myself)
 

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So, I am an INTJ in Myers-Briggs, and when I take Enneagram, I come out with 5 and 8 evenly matched. Supposedly, this doesn't exist, but I don't believe it. If the fundamental belief of 5 is that they aren't able to do things as well as others, and the fundamental desire of 8 is to control and not to be controlled, then those two work in tandem for me. I am inherently cautious and uncertain of success and aware of failure going into something. So I research it for hours, days, and even months until I know I have mastered it. This is stage 1.

However, I don't stay in this stage, (which I am guessing is the type 5). If someone wants to direct me or control me, I hate that at all times, but for tactical reasons I will tolerate it while I am not sure of where I stand. Once I am sure of where I stand, I 'know' I am invincible, and launch a campaign to take charge of everything. At this point, I will definitely not let others control me, and will not stop working at the situation until I am the dominant person in whatever I am doing. Once I know where I stand (and not before), I have almost absolute confidence in my own ability to win.

In sum, I start out by taking a step back so that I don't make a fatal mistake, do my research until I know I am going to win, and then start a campaign until I do win. I hate loss, I hate subordination, and I hate weakness; I can temporarily take those things if I have to in order to win in the long run.

5w8, or no?
I'm a 4 who mistyped at 5 and 8 in the past. I used to test at 5 and 8 alternately. I usually test as an 8 , to this day. I'm definitely a 4. The tests are, to be frank, a load of crap :) But what you described here would apply to a few types - namely 3, 6, 7... maybe 1?


Edit: OH no! I just saw that this was a really old thread and I had already responded. Is this Lion 4.5? Welcome back!!!

Ahh I see you typed at 4w5, Awesome :) I'm sure I'm a 4 now, but I'm still debating my wing.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
I'm a 4 who mistyped at 5 and 8 in the past. I used to test at 5 and 8 alternately. I usually test as an 8 , to this day. I'm definitely a 4. The tests are, to be frank, a load of crap :) But what you described here would apply to a few types - namely 3, 6, 7... maybe 1?


Edit: OH no! I just saw that this was a really old thread and I had already responded. Is this Lion 4.5? Welcome back!!!

Ahh I see you typed at 4w5, Awesome :) I'm sure I'm a 4 now, but I'm still debating my wing.
Yes, this is Lion 4.5. I was permabanned by Treebob, but remember, due to global warming, the permafrost is melting! I was restored with a better username.

I am sitting on 4, yes. It seems our Enneagram experience is somewhat shared. Although I'm sure you have done more research than me.

Congrats on the MOTM, although I'm a little late. These days, I mainly sit on the CR & P forum, hoping to hone my case for the non-existence of religion and non-religion.
 

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Yes, this is Lion 4.5. I was permabanned by Treebob, but remember, due to global warming, the permafrost is melting! I was restored with a better username.

I am sitting on 4, yes. It seems our Enneagram experience is somewhat shared. Although I'm sure you have done more research than me.

Congrats on the MOTM, although I'm a little late. These days, I mainly sit on the CR & P forum, hoping to hone my case for the non-existence of religion and non-religion.
Yeah. Last time I posted in this thread I was typed at a joking "8w4" because I was having trouble accepting that I'm a 4. At this point I've typed at 4 for more than a year. I started peeling away at the layers of some of my life issues, being that I had learned so much of myself through my mistypes and finally correct type.. but there are layers upon layers, and the more I think about solving things, the more attached I feel to the fixation, because I don't know any other way to be. It's all about balancing the fixation (which formed for a reason) but making sure I am wielding it rather than letting it control me, I suppose. Easier said than done. :)

Non-existence of religion and non-religion? Sounds like an intense project. Care to elaborate? I can check that forum.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
Yeah. Last time I posted in this thread I was typed at a joking "8w4" because I was having trouble accepting that I'm a 4. At this point I've typed at 4 for more than a year. I started peeling away at the layers of some of my life issues, being that I had learned so much of myself through my mistypes and finally correct type.. but there are layers upon layers, and the more I think about solving things, the more attached I feel to the fixation, because I don't know any other way to be. It's all about balancing the fixation (which formed for a reason) but making sure I am wielding it rather than letting it control me, I suppose. Easier said than done. :)

Non-existence of religion and non-religion? Sounds like an intense project. Care to elaborate? I can check that forum.
It's a pretty simple idea. I notice most people act pretty much the same when they live in the Western world. Doesn't matter what religion they espouse, or even if they espouse no religion. So when those same people (like me) discuss their philosophical positions at a given time and place and forum, those opinions have minimal relation to what they do. At that point, does it even matter?

That's where I started from, anyway.
 

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yes also I cant find anywhere the tritype 5,8,1 (if there even is one). but 5,8,1 is the one I got. and stacking sp,sx,so. I am ENTJ. I am very confused and stired up in this mess.

Edit: I am 5,8,3 my bad
 

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I just read a few comments..people...

ACCEPT that mbti, ennegram, anything like this is more or less wrong, it can't type us, it's just accurate, but not as near as most of you think...
Saying "YOU CAN BE ONLY 1 TYPE" is illogical and lame

Someone created a fantastic theory and you rely on it too much, you tend to focus on thousands of cats that make the theory acurrate, but ignore the opposite.

I'm a mix of enneagram too, I'm dominant 3, 5, 1, 8, moderate 7 and weak other. And I'm not one particular type, and I'm saying that after a huge amount of time spent on this. I guess I'm 3w5sw8sw1, couldn't find it on google, so, psychologists, do your job!

Talking of mbti, entj is the most logical, but I like the idea of ANTK, it would make even more sense, therefore may I join ANTK'S?
 

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So, I am an INTJ in Myers-Briggs, and when I take Enneagram, I come out with 5 and 8 evenly matched. Supposedly, this doesn't exist, but I don't believe it. If the fundamental belief of 5 is that they aren't able to do things as well as others, and the fundamental desire of 8 is to control and not to be controlled, then those two work in tandem for me. I am inherently cautious and uncertain of success and aware of failure going into something. So I research it for hours, days, and even months until I know I have mastered it. This is stage 1.

However, I don't stay in this stage, (which I am guessing is the type 5). If someone wants to direct me or control me, I hate that at all times, but for tactical reasons I will tolerate it while I am not sure of where I stand. Once I am sure of where I stand, I 'know' I am invincible, and launch a campaign to take charge of everything. At this point, I will definitely not let others control me, and will not stop working at the situation until I am the dominant person in whatever I am doing. Once I know where I stand (and not before), I have almost absolute confidence in my own ability to win.

In sum, I start out by taking a step back so that I don't make a fatal mistake, do my research until I know I am going to win, and then start a campaign until I do win. I hate loss, I hate subordination, and I hate weakness; I can temporarily take those things if I have to in order to win in the long run.

5w8, or no?
I’m an INTJ as well. I did the enneagram test and got 98% type 5 and 96% type 8
 

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So, I am an INTJ in Myers-Briggs, and when I take Enneagram, I come out with 5 and 8 evenly matched. Supposedly, this doesn't exist, but I don't believe it. If the fundamental belief of 5 is that they aren't able to do things as well as others, and the fundamental desire of 8 is to control and not to be controlled, then those two work in tandem for me. I am inherently cautious and uncertain of success and aware of failure going into something. So I research it for hours, days, and even months until I know I have mastered it. This is stage 1.

However, I don't stay in this stage, (which I am guessing is the type 5). If someone wants to direct me or control me, I hate that at all times, but for tactical reasons I will tolerate it while I am not sure of where I stand. Once I am sure of where I stand, I 'know' I am invincible, and launch a campaign to take charge of everything. At this point, I will definitely not let others control me, and will not stop working at the situation until I am the dominant person in whatever I am doing. Once I know where I stand (and not before), I have almost absolute confidence in my own ability to win.

In sum, I start out by taking a step back so that I don't make a fatal mistake, do my research until I know I am going to win, and then start a campaign until I do win. I hate loss, I hate subordination, and I hate weakness; I can temporarily take those things if I have to in order to win in the long run.

5w8, or no?
So, first of all, for SURE 5. As, an 8 wouldn’t spend months and months researching a topic they feel insecure about — they usually just plow into it.

That said, it’s very possible you have an 8 - fix. You should read up about tritype theory. I find, often times, people could have 2 very strong types almost as if they have 2 core types — but you are still a 5 core — just with a strong 8 - fix.

Does this check out for you?
 

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So, I did some more reading on this, and took the long test, which told me that I am type 1 instead of the previous tests, which said 5 and/or 8. The thing is, it seems to me that the basic motivations of each of these are my basic motivations, but not always at the same time.

To elaborate, imagine that you are just this person who wants to think about things that matter, understand them, and then find out how this knowledge affects everything else in life so that the right thing can be done (and by right I mean right both morally and systemically/organizationally, because these are the same to me). You want to figure out a perfect, logical, total system that explains and classifies everything in life and in ideas, that is fair, and that is logically, objectively, unquestionably right. Once all of this is figured out, you want to take your holistic, total system, and you personally see it as your mission in life to do everything you can to achieve the implementation of your system. Ideally, you convince other people of it (through writing and conversation), and you personally would be in charge of implementing it.

If this isn't feasible (which it probably never is), or if your system isn't complete yet, the least you can do is to figure out what you personally should be doing (as if the system does exist, for you, even though it doesn't yet for others), and then to do it constantly. You always want to be working toward gaining the knowledge you need to perfect the system, but you also want to be in charge and in control wherever you are in the meantime.

That is basically how I am oriented, and that is how I view things. I have a big long range goal, but in the meantime whenever I am not in control, whenever I am not right, and whenever I am ignorant of something I want to know; those three things are not cool with me, and if I don't have any one of the three, recovering it becomes my main goal until this is accomplished.

I constantly analyze myself morally, mentally, or in my position within my university and jobs, unless I am thinking about a new idea that is relevant to something important. I always come up short in this analysis, and have therefore never acted satisfactorily. The only way for me to take my mind off this kind of analysis of myself or ideas is either for me to analyze the people around me, or I can also sedate myself by taking in pointless information (like listening to NPR news for hours at the same time as studying).

I have no hobbies or other interests of any kind except insofar as they affect the overall Plan to implement the system. If I study at university, or work at a career, the only reason I could do this is because it would help me to achieve the larger goal. I don't care about money or people or really anything else, intrinsically. I want everything explained, and until this happens, I haven't done what I am supposed to do.

What type does this best fit with? I think there is a good bit of INTJ there, but perhaps more of a 1?
Despite your username, I am the EXACT same person as you. I'm INTJ (though sometimes I feel more like an INTP), and I also get the 5 w 8 thing in my Enneagram results. Also, your description of yourself is the cycle on repeat in my adult life.
My results were:
Five 99%
Eight 79%
Four 75%
Six 75%
Three 66%
Seven 58%
Nine 57%
One 55%
Two 47%
 
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