Personality Cafe banner

1 - 20 of 38 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,003 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
So, this is my findings, and I need help because I am in A FIX .__.


I don't trust anybody, not even my closest friends.

I don't trust myself! I mean I am constantly self doubting the smallest of decisions, it's terrible.

There was a time in my life where I was very anti-authoritarian, and I was very aware of it. However, my reasons for doing it were so I could become who I wanted to be, discover my 'self' per se.

For example, while all the types can become depressed, Fours do so because they are disappointed with themselves for having lost some opportunity to actualize themselves. They become depressed when they realize that in their search for self, they have gone down a blind alley and now must pay the price. Unhealthy, depressed Fours are essentially angry with themselves for bringing this on themselves or for allowing it to happen.
By contrast, Sixes become depressed when they fear that they have done something to make their authority figure mad at them. Their depression is a response to their self-disparagement; it comes from the fear that the authority is angry with them and will punish them. Thus, the depression of Sixes is exogenous (coming from the outside) and can be relieved by a word of reassurance from the authority. This is not the case with Fours whose depression is endogenous (coming from the inside), a response to their self-accusations.
If you consider God to be an outside influence, you could consider me the definition of a six because at one point in my life I was devoted to righting the wrongs I had caused in his name and recieving redemption.

However... I have also gone through an above mentioned period of self-actualization and depression when I failed to do so. This was because I didn't have the balls to go my own way and not finish school and what not... regardless, could it be interpreted that the need for 'comfort and security' (me not leaving home) is greater than the need for self actualization and I am a 6?

I worry constantly; however it is not about external circumstances; in fact, i am quite 'go with the flow'. It's more internally directed. eg. stressed that I'm not being true to myself, that my actions reflect who I really am.

I want to go my own way and do what I want to do (art) however as a career I feel that regardless of personal happiness I focus on financial security, etc. Could this be related to a dominant sp instinct (i'm sp/sx, if it helps) or to the six's focus on security?


Oh, and I decided i MIGHT be 4 so, 6 sx? with an instinctual variant stacking of 4 sp/sx.

If someone could help it'd be great :) I really need an expert in the field of Enneagram to help me out, because although I know lots I know I have limits. If anyone has questions/needs clarification I will help.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
74 Posts
I'm going to try to help you out a bit here, partly because no one else has responded yet (which must be disappointing), and I originally typed as a 4 but now believe 6 is the strongest fixation, so might be able to help, up to a point.

First of all, I'm convinced enough I'm a 6 first to strongly disagree with at least part of the quote you've included. There are other reasons why a six might be depressed. Besides anything else, sixes don't necessarily have an 'authority' figure, or at least one they have actually chosen and care about. Some sixes think the very concept of authority is dangerous or at least something to be highly sceptical about. One of the first things to know about sixes is that their attitude towards 'authorities' is extremely variable, and often even within the same person.

The six fixation is essentially about uncertainty, or to be more precise, having a particularly strong sense of unease due to uncertainty. The reason you will often hear the word 'authority' in connection with sixes is because when people are uncertain, they often look to others for help/guidance/support/advice. But equally they may actually be highly suspicious of what other people say, because the motives/agendas of others are hidden to them, and because they are aware that people are very prone to bias/predjudice and are often not well informed or are over-confident in their reasoning abilities.

Do you feel a sense of defect/shame? If yes, this can be a result of a six fixation, because being a six can make you feel very lacking, like you're missing some important tool or guidebook that other people have to help them navigate around life. This sense of inferiority can make you resemble a four, if this makes you use similar strategies to a four to attempt to compensate for the shame.

Also, being stressed about not being true to yourself could also fit with a six fixation, because sixes can become paranoid about being overly-influenced by others, and of being led down a path that is not truly their path. Sixes can be highly individualistic in this way, make no mistake about it.

I'm not going to go as far as suggesting you are a six here because I'm still not quite an expert on the Enneagram as a whole, and don't know you well enough, though I've learnt a lot about how a six fixation can manifest through personal experience, and from what I've learnt about other sixes. This is a VERY diverse group, probably the most diverse of the Enneagram (with the possible exception of nines/threes). For this reason, it is notoriously hard to adequately describe sixes as a whole without resorting to over-generalisations.

I won't comment on the instinctual variants, because I still haven't got to grips with that side of it.

(I'll not have access to the internet over the next few days, so won't be able to reply to anything else until next weekend).
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,009 Posts
If you read the overview of Type Six here, you'll see what's going on in a Type Six mind, and why it is the Thinking Center.

Type Six is about finding a balance to everything in life. A Type Six will constantly question everyones actions including his or her own. We contradict ourselves non-stop, because we cannot wing it too much to the left or too the right. As an example, we will never give a concrete "Yes"-answer to "Are you good at this?". We are phobic, we are watchful, and can sometimes counter our phobias by doing exactly what we fear to do the most. Too scared to jump? If a Type Six stands by the edge long enough, he or she will eventually jump, and regret it when he or she jumps.

A good example of a Type Six in movies, would be the character Mel Gibson displayed in the movie Ransom. His whole world comes crashing down when he believes his son is already killed or doomed to be killed if he hands over the ransom money, so instead of following the Police and FBI's suggestions and his wife's wishes, he goes against everything logical, the odds, and use the ransom money to put a price on the kidnappers head. Like what the hell? People hates him for what he did. And most importantly he hates himself for what he did. But in his head, it was the most logical choice at that given time. Notice, Mel Gibson is bona fide Type Six in reality too, a very unhealthy one I might add.

I had a car that was broken down, didn't know what to do with it. I thought about what I wanted to do with it for so long that I had over five different options in the end, yet did nothing with those choices because I had doubt in every single option I came up with. I don't have an authorical figure that can give me advice or guidance so I'll procrastinate. Some Type Sixes will counter most of their fears, whereas I will shy away from it. A type six is not entirely phobic or counterphobic, and some Type Sixes don't even have to be phobic at all.

If you had seen one of my videos, you'd see how I suddenly started talking about having to watch out for nails under the snow, because I've experienced stepping on nails in the past. Out of the blue- Nails. Dumbest thought process ever, deliborating our own anxiety. But it makes us aware, beyond average intelligent, and above all prepared for anything. Thing is, and pardon my language, we're pussies untill we're cornered, and that's when we bite the hand that feeds us >_>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,228 Posts
Everything you've described of yourself in your post is very 6ish with a possible 9 gut fix. Do you go with the flow even when you know you don't want to? How prone are you to changing your mind once you've made a decision? How do you usually go about making your decisions?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,003 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
If you read the overview of Type Six here, you'll see what's going on in a Type Six mind, and why it is the Thinking Center.

Type Six is about finding a balance to everything in life. A Type Six will constantly question everyones actions including his or her own. We contradict ourselves non-stop, because we cannot wing it too much to the left or too the right. As an example, we will never give a concrete "Yes"-answer to "Are you good at this?". We are phobic, we are watchful, and can sometimes counter our phobias by doing exactly what we fear to do the most. Too scared to jump? If a Type Six stands by the edge long enough, he or she will eventually jump, and regret it when he or she jumps.


I had a car that was broken down, didn't know what to do with it. I thought about what I wanted to do with it for so long that I had over five different options in the end, yet did nothing with those choices because I had doubt in every single option I came up with. I don't have an authorical figure that can give me advice or guidance so I'll procrastinate. Some Type Sixes will counter most of their fears, whereas I will shy away from it. A type six is not entirely phobic or counterphobic, and some Type Sixes don't even have to be phobic at all.

If you had seen one of my videos, you'd see how I suddenly started talking about having to watch out for nails under the snow, because I've experienced stepping on nails in the past. Out of the blue- Nails. Dumbest thought process ever, deliborating our own anxiety. But it makes us aware, beyond average intelligent, and above all prepared for anything. Thing is, and pardon my language, we're pussies untill we're cornered, and that's when we bite the hand that feeds us >_>
I don't relate to this much at all. The one part I do relate to is questioning myself. I recently went through an insane period of self doubt. The one thing that i related to completely in the six description was this:

They are uncertain about what they think about things, and they are especially uncertain when it comes to deciding what to do about their feelings. Because of this uncertainty, they become afraid of taking the wrong action or sending the wrong signal. Their minds turn round and around with conflicting thoughts about what they should be doing while they simultaneously try to figure out what the others in their lives are really up to. Consequently, ambivalence toward both themselves and others causes them to give mixed signals. Or, to put this another way, Sixes react to their feelings—particularly anxiety—and communicate their reactions rather than their feelings. Except when Sixes are very healthy, others can rarely be certain of what is really on their minds.
I figure this is a) because I have a problem with forming and keeping close relationships and b) because although I haven't figured it out truly yet, I suspect that while my core is four my sx is six.
However, I decided i am a four sp/sx because of this description and how it completely describes me.

four sp/sx

This subtype also cares very much about their surroundings and their possessions. They feel as if these things help to express who they are. There is more of a passionate sense about them as compared to the self/soc. They have more of a sensual relationship with their environment. These Fours are much more tortured by their difficulty with respect to maintaining close relationships. The self-preservational instinct tends to be in conflict with the sexual instinct, causing this subtype to habitually analyze their relationships to the point where they find it difficult to be present to them. When unhealthy, these Fours can become very disdainful of the social environment. They also start to envy the ease with which others seem to form relationships and maintain friendships. When Fours of this subtype are healthy, they find that they can form relationships without feeling as though they are sacrificing authenticity. They no longer feel that they have to automatically define themselves as "different from others," as outside the group. They are able to see the ways in which their emotionality might cloud their better judgment and to use that insight to establish equilibrium.

However, six is my second highest score when I take enneagram tests. It definitely reflects on my personality, especially when it comes to self doubt.

All of this is very vague - i can see how it can go one way or the other. The uncertainty so many have regarding the whole thing explains my ambivalence towards the whole matter. I am an artist as well as aquarius. Regarding aquarius, they tend to be more head-oriented. As well, their biggest fear is not knowing their true identity - we have a feeble footing with our own selves, it seems. There were so many factors playing into my personality, how could I be sure? And I needed to be sure.

The deciding factor? When making decisions or looking for guidance, I look inwards rather than looking to external sources of security like the type six does. When I do feel so misguided and doubtful of myself, I withdraw.

So thanks for your help guys, but I am convinced I've found out what my Enneagram really is. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,003 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Everything you've described of yourself in your post is very 6ish with a possible 9 gut fix. Do you go with the flow even when you know you don't want to? How prone are you to changing your mind once you've made a decision? How do you usually go about making your decisions?
I also believe I have a 9 gut fix. I find myself exhibiting these behaviors when it comes to my professional life. I'm a very indecisive person, I worry an unordinate amount about it yet I ignore it as much as I can. However I just feel so rushed, compared to everyone else. Why the hurry, we have our whole lives and I'm only seventeen, who says I have to decide if I'm going to be a brain surgeon or not yet? I think that's more a lifestyle choice than anything though. And when it comes to making decisions, I have to resist "going with the crowd" and by that I mean choosing a career based on financial reasons. I believe this is my sp instinct kickin' in. I tend to withdraw and do some inner searching when I am trying to find out what i really want in life. When I do this it becomes clear. It is very easy to slip back into "do i really want to do this?" "should I do this?" mode.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,228 Posts
I also believe I have a 9 gut fix. I find myself exhibiting these behaviors when it comes to my professional life. I'm a very indecisive person, I worry an unordinate amount about it yet I ignore it as much as I can. However I just feel so rushed, compared to everyone else. Why the hurry, we have our whole lives and I'm only seventeen, who says I have to decide if I'm going to be a brain surgeon or not yet? I think that's more a lifestyle choice than anything though. And when it comes to making decisions, I have to resist "going with the crowd" and by that I mean choosing a career based on financial reasons. I believe this is my sp instinct kickin' in. I tend to withdraw and do some inner searching when I am trying to find out what i really want in life. When I do this it becomes clear. It is very easy to slip back into "do i really want to do this?" "should I do this?" mode.
6w7. Not sure on your 9 wing at this point. How would you describe your avoidance of conflict?

And just a suggestion...There's nothing wrong with using money as a criteria for career choices but find a field you're truly interested in or it just won't work out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,228 Posts
i thought I was 6w7 for a long time...

from here: the enneagram ...info from the underground

The 6 fixation is centered around independence. Many don't readily identify with relying on an external source for guidance, even as they're reaching for it. When they do realize it, they're often quick to start running in the opposite direction, doing themselves no good.

EDIT: FWIW, I don't find that 4 description all that great.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,003 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
The 6 fixation is centered around independence. Many don't readily identify with relying on an external source for guidance, even as they're reaching for it. When they do realize it, they're often quick to start running in the opposite direction, doing themselves no good.

EDIT: FWIW, I don't find that 4 description all that great.
i see. it makes sense, i am very fixated on independence, though I thought I needed it to express my individuality. I'm still confused about the authority thing. Could you clarify?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,003 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Compare and contrasting of 4 or 6w7

I may be 6w7 because I am anxious, insecure and incredibly doubtful. I enjoy new experiences and long to find my independance and freedom. I am enthusiastic. I feel I am a paradox to myself. Too many extremes crashing against eachother. I have trouble getting close to people at the beginning; I wait to see if I can trust them before I even slightly open up to them. I am skeptical of outsiders. I often lose touch with myself, what I want/feel/think, especially in new surroundings or people I'm wary of. When in a relationship I don't get clingy, I get detached and impersonal, valuing my freedom rather than the other person. My home is where I feel most comfortable.

However...my relationship between my friend and I is more relatable to the 4-5 compatibility and less so to 6-5.

Fours - I have always been wierd from other people, I have always had different tastes that other people, I have always from seperate and lacking of something. "superiority complex" fours seem to have is low. Feel individualistic compared to other people, disdain for lack of individuality in others. Never thought I was as introverted emotionally as 4's are. Wanted to self-actualize myself when I was younger, now I am just confused as to who I am. Aware of environment and unconfortable but not anxious.

Possible: so-4 sx-6 sp-9

I simply cannot see myself having no 4 in me, I immediately identify with much it details.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,228 Posts
i see. it makes sense, i am very fixated on independence, though I thought I needed it to express my individuality. I'm still confused about the authority thing. Could you clarify?
Tell me about your individuality. The desire to express it could mean a lot of things. On the issue of authority, 6w5's are more interested in gaining information to make their choices from a credible source. 6w7's are much less concerned with expert opinion and more interested in knowing that somebody supports their decision, even if they're wrong. Does that clarify it for you or are you going in a different direction with your confusion concerning authority?
 
  • Like
Reactions: minkaybell

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,228 Posts
Compare and contrasting of 4 or 6w7

I may be 6w7 because I am anxious, insecure and incredibly doubtful. I enjoy new experiences and long to find my independance and freedom. I am enthusiastic. I feel I am a paradox to myself. Too many extremes crashing against eachother. I have trouble getting close to people at the beginning; I wait to see if I can trust them before I even slightly open up to them. I am skeptical of outsiders. I often lose touch with myself, what I want/feel/think, especially in new surroundings or people I'm wary of. When in a relationship I don't get clingy, I get detached and impersonal, valuing my freedom rather than the other person. My home is where I feel most comfortable.

However...my relationship between my friend and I is more relatable to the 4-5 compatibility and less so to 6-5.
Your first paragraph all matches up extremely well with a core 6. The part in bold has me scratching my head. Are you comparing a compatibility description to a relationship you have with someone that you believe is a type 5?

Fours - I have always been wierd from other people, I have always had different tastes that other people, I have always from seperate and lacking of something. "superiority complex" fours seem to have is low. Feel individualistic compared to other people, disdain for lack of individuality in others. Never thought I was as introverted emotionally as 4's are. Wanted to self-actualize myself when I was younger, now I am just confused as to who I am. Aware of environment and unconfortable but not anxious.

Possible: so-4 sx-6 sp-9

I simply cannot see myself having no 4 in me, I immediately identify with much it details.
The part in bold here is important in weighting 6 against 4. 6's aren't likely to see themselves superior to others. They may understand that not all people are created equal in the sense of qualities, attributes and talents but they still don't generally let anything special about them inflate their egos. The fact that you do feel some disdain for lack of individuality might imply a 4 fix but I'd have to see more before I made a solid judgment call.
 
  • Like
Reactions: susurration

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,003 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Tell me about your individuality. The desire to express it could mean a lot of things. On the issue of authority, 6w5's are more interested in gaining information to make their choices from a credible source. 6w7's are much less concerned with expert opinion and more interested in knowing that somebody supports their decision, even if they're wrong. Does that clarify it for you or are you going in a different direction with your confusion concerning authority?
My individuality makes me fundamentally different from everyone and anyone. If I am angry at a person it is because I feel I am misunderstood. I've felt misunderstood from a young age, simply because I was shy. I am not attracted to clothes in a boutique, I prefer unique items that express myself. I feel put off if I feel too similar to another person. I don't just want to be the average girl, woes and worries and boys, yet I crave to be like that sometimes too. I would never dare say it, but I do feel my art work is more superior to everybody's. I've wanted to hang out with people like me, people who have the same motivations and desires, and my desire was to find my true self through means of exploration. I wanted to bring in as much from everywhere as I possibly could, because in doing so I would be the person I want to be and not this depressed anxious shy introverted girl that I was. And when I didn't......well, I felt that I ruined all chances of ever liking myself and ever fulfilling my potential, and I became severely depressed. I was not happy with the people I was around, I hated them because they were limited in their own narrow views. It took me a long time to get over that.....I'm still not happy with myself, I don't know if I will ever be.

That's me generally. Me in relationships is a completely different story. I don't feel I can form close bonds with anybody, because I don't let enough of myself be shown. Around people I am attracted to, I am dreadfully self-conscious of all my faults. I am conscious of the everyday unconscious things people do, like scratching themselves or something. Why I do this...I feel like they're analyzing me. And I don't want them to see me in a vulnerable state. i can't relax. I have trouble expressing my affections. I am distant and reserved. To my S.O's it's seemed like I don't care about them or want them. It's true, when I enter a relationship I become fearful of commitment and showing my true colours due to embarrassment, shame and because I find it extremely difficult to trust someone and let them see me in my unguarded states. And when I do progress, letting them see parts of me I conceal so fervently, I can regress again, and I become unemotional, unresponsive, basically a vegetable. My head inside feels like t.v. static. But I will do things i don't want to just to be seen as not a loser. In the past people have thought I was in a relationship with my best guy friend because I'm so affectionate, but when I'm in a relationship most people, if they don't know would thing we were strangers.

I find my main source of anxiety to be people. Interacting, being social and getting people to like me and not think I'm a bitch because I don't say anything (to people I don't know well). Being vulnerable and un-avoidant in close relationships.

Unrelated to the last paragraph, sometimes I get so wrapped up inside my own head I find it difficult to participate in my own life. This is when I am in unhealthy states.....when I am like this I can't work. I can't communicate. I just want to not exist.

In response the authority thing, looking for external validation. I don't think I need it, but perhaps unconsciously I seek it out. This here is my main inclination to believe so...before you and the other people responded, I believed I was a four. Your response brought out the little bit of doubt remaining..these past weeks have been hell, trying to figure out my enneagram core type...I feel like I can't settle until i've, for lack of a better phrase, find out who I really am. I've scoured this site, I've exhausted myself mentally trying to figure it out. And the thing is, sometimes I don't even know what is true about myself and what isn't. Sometimes I'll be reading through a description that I've related to before, but I can't relate to anything. And sometimes I'll relate to everything in a description, only to go back later with a clearer head and realize I dont relate to it at all. I know that I project my fears onto the environment, I over-exaggerate things in my mind and I may see things in people's faces because I want to, though i don't believe I do. I've just realized this from reading through other posts of yours.
I've established myself that I'm a 4w5. The description you provided really connected with me. But I know that there is 6 in me as well, at least I fear there is. And I guess you're my hope for figuring out where it is and what not. Or if I"m something else entirely.

Thankyou soo much for taking the time to read this and help me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,003 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Your first paragraph all matches up extremely well with a core 6. The part in bold has me scratching my head. Are you comparing a compatibility description to a relationship you have with someone that you believe is a type 5
Yes, the compatibility description here http://personalitycafe.com/type-4-forum-individualist/8070-type-four-compatibility.html (only the first paragraph). As we believe I am 4w5 and she is 5w4 we find ourselves extremely compatible...not really much to say other than we are more compatible than 5/6 pairing because they were compared to being better as colleagues, while me n her are best friends.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
74 Posts
Minkaybell - I related far more to the 4 sp/sx (and sp/so) description on this site than for the equivalents for type 6. Part of the problem is that is it not uncommon for sixes to look (on the face of it) more like other types, and sixes can easily get confused with just about any other type in the Enneagram (though not the same person, for me it just happened to be 4).

That's why it's important to consider underlying motivations/concerns. This can take a long time though to properly identify.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,003 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Minkaybell - I related far more to the 4 sp/sx (and sp/so) description on this site than for the equivalents for type 6. Part of the problem is that is it not uncommon for sixes to look (on the face of it) more like other types, and sixes can easily get confused with just about any other type in the Enneagram (though not the same person, for me it just happened to be 4).

That's why it's important to consider underlying motivations/concerns. This can take a long time though to properly identify.
i realize that, that's why I'm so intent on getting to the bottom of this. And the best way to do that is to trust in other people to help you out, because they make connections that I may not see, and have more knowledge on the subject of Enneagrams as a whole than I do. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dichotomy

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,228 Posts
It's difficult enough to accurately self-type when relating to a description. Throwing two people into a box together simply won't work. This is very reflective of the 6w7 decision making style. 6w7's hop around, sampling the full spectrum of choices. They don't want to miss out on anything!

What I would suggest doing is learning to see through your projections in an attempt to engage with yourself subconsciously. It's not difficult to do technically, but you will find it is very hard to face the feelings you've been repressing. It's worth it. The Enneagram can be a helpful guide in pinpointing key issues in your psyche.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,003 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
alright, I've come to terms with it. It is a hard process, but It's necessary.

Thanks muchly for the help :) From what you've read, do you have any indications to what you think my trifix may be?
I believe 9 is in there somewhere, the qualities fit me. 4 I'm not ready to assess any of it yet, I've mauled it enough already.
 
1 - 20 of 38 Posts
Top