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Discussion Starter #1
I'm not the only one. Nearly every 6w7 I see has some doubts about being E or I. I can't tell if I am more ENFP or INFP an have seen others struggle with the same problem ESFp or ISFP seems to also be a common one. Even@PlushWitch said something about this in her sub wing, @fourtines in her recent Beebe function model thread.

Question is...why? Is it the 7 wing's influence, in which case how?
 

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Yeah I would say that the 6w7 that I know was surprised when I suggested he was an introvert, and then noticed that he was.

What I've found is that introverts, even when talking, will slip into their own mind for a bit, and then come back to the conversation. Extroverts are energized by conversations and have an "outer focus" on the world around them which makes them interested in keeping the conversation flowing, and keeping the ideas/topics coming. (I don't know any 6w7 extroverts in real life to compare my introverted friend with.)

I suppose the 7 wing makes you guys more comfortable with other people and with the external world?
 

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MOTM February 2014
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I suppose the 7 wing makes you guys more comfortable with other people and with the external world?
No... I wouldn't say more comfortable. Maybe compared to a 6w5 or a withdrawn type, it seems that way.

I mentioned it in another thread: 6w7s thrive (even rely, to an extent) on new experiences. It looks like extroverted behavior, but it's not too much.
I'm not sure on the why, yet. I have some theories floating around, just nothing concrete. Though I'm tired so maybe I'm just forgetting.

Add in that 6w7s are others-focused and rely more on people. A cp would probably bulk at the idea of relying on others, I think, but it's not untrue.

As for E vs I, I never really had that problem. I knew I was an introvert and all the little details I learned afterwards just confirmed it. The problem was the stereotype that 6w7 = extrovert, really. The newer descriptions are better about it, but the older ones make it sound like an introvert could never be anything but 6w5 (or that was my impression).

It's been said a few times that extroverts have a higher ratio of mistyping as an introvert. Not sure how accurate it is, but just throwing it out there. It's almost amusing considering (American) society's view that introverts are worse off in society.
 

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No... I wouldn't say more comfortable. Maybe compared to a 6w5 or a withdrawn type, it seems that way.
Yeah that's what I was getting at. 6w7 act more comfortable with other people. But is acting outgoing a defense mechanism for a 6w7 just as retreating is for 6w5?
 

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MOTM February 2014
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Yeah that's what I was getting at. 6w7 act more comfortable with other people. But is acting outgoing a defense mechanism for a 6w7 just as retreating is for 6w5?
If it is, I'm doing it wrong o_O :tongue:

I rarely intentionally act comfortable around people. I have social anxiety, so that's part of it. But regardless, I still come off as... well, "cute" is the most common adjective. It's hardly intentional and it doesn't mean that's how I really feel. I really feel awkward as hell and like I'm about to accidentally insult someone.

What is a common defense mechanism, however, is what @Crumble posted recently: seeking others to reassure or validate. It's possible that this sort of thing is more phobic than cp. I imagine that the cp'ers do something quite similar, but more subtle, like slyly looking for validation without wanting to be found out. Regardless, it's much more common in a 6w7 to seek other's opinions, and that's generally where the "reliant on others" comes from.

It's not impossible that the above could look like a 6w7 suddenly becoming outgoing in order to assuage fears. But on the other hand, an introverted 6w7 would withdraw, too, simply from being a little more inner-oriented.

Another thing comes to mind of the 6w7's tendency to find distraction through real-world events. (Now I feel stupid, since this is part of the reason we seek out new experiences.) Both 5s and 7s do this, the distraction from themselves, but the 7 is a little more sensory. It follows that the 6w7s use things like people and games and such in order to shut up their thoughts. Again, seemingly extroverted, but there's a deeper purpose.
(It'd be good to hear what you use as distraction, if you could. More accurate that way. :) )

I speak for myself when I say that purely mental activities like reading and learning (without doing) doesn't help my brain to quiet down enough. Doesn't mean I don't enjoy doing them, but if I'm looking for something purely distracting then I need to be in action in some way. Video games are my most common tool.

...Hm. Sorry I rambled a bit :S
 

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It's not impossible that the above could look like a 6w7 suddenly becoming outgoing in order to assuage fears. But on the other hand, an introverted 6w7 would withdraw, too, simply from being a little more inner-oriented.

Another thing comes to mind of the 6w7's tendency to find distraction through real-world events. (Now I feel stupid, since this is part of the reason we seek out new experiences.) Both 5s and 7s do this, the distraction from themselves, but the 7 is a little more sensory. It follows that the 6w7s use things like people and games and such in order to shut up their thoughts. Again, seemingly extroverted, but there's a deeper purpose.
(It'd be good to hear what you use as distraction, if you could. More accurate that way. :) )

I speak for myself when I say that purely mental activities like reading and learning (without doing) doesn't help my brain to quiet down enough. Doesn't mean I don't enjoy doing them, but if I'm looking for something purely distracting then I need to be in action in some way. Video games are my most common tool.
So that's why I think I'm an extrovert - I only know I'm an introvert because being with people drains me to all hell. Anyway, I'll add what I can to this discussion. I have to get out and keep out of myself by using other people. Solitary activities just don't do it for me, a bit like @Paradigm, but not even video games distract me because I always think about stuff and I never get engrossed. I hate being alone for too long, it drives me absolutely mad.

I guess we're all just ambiverts. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
If I am left alone in a room with only books to read and not much else to do...I will be able to take it for about an hour. After that I will start losing my mind, I'll get impatient and will start to fluctuate between bored and drained - energetic and struggling with crazy ideas of escaping.

I neeed external stimulus, this is why I constantly listen to music even when I am reading. Multiplayer online games can hold my interest for hours or games like Skyrim or a good strategy game. I can read about different theories and stuff that interests me so that can keep me satisfied for hours as well.

The biggest problem I face is my own thoughts which are constant and relentless. If I have nothing to ponder then I will ponder everything at random and come up with interesting discoveries...which I then absolutely must share with others. If other people are not around so I can do a "brain dump"... I will get annoyed and depressed.

Simply put if I can't share and get feedback...that sux. ^^ which is why I love PerC.

The following song describes my relationship with the MBTI thou (how you get the meaning of the lyrics *_* if not then ask and I will explain muhahaha!


Title: My Favourite Game
Artist: The Cardigans

I don't know what you're looking for
you haven't found it baby, that's for sure
You rip me up, you spread me all around
in the dust of the deed of time

And this is not a case of lust, you see
it's not a matter of you versus me
It's fine the way you want me on your own
but in the end it's always me alone

And I'm losing my favourite game
you're losing your mind again
I'm losing my baby
losing my favourite game

I only know what I've been working for
another you so I could love you more
I really thought that I could take you there
but my experiment is not getting us anywhere

I had a vision I could turn you right
a stupid mission and a lethal fight
I should have seen it when my hope was new
my heart is black and my body is blue

And I'm losing my favourite game
you're losing your mind again
I'm losing my favourite game
you're losing your mind again
I'm losing my baby
losing my favourite game

I'm losing my favourite game
you're losing your mind again
I tried, I tried, (but you're still the same) I tried
I'm losing my baby
you're losing a savior and a saint

:p the problem here probably has something to do with how MBTI functions differ from Jung's original function descriptions. They are not all the same. I have found Socionics function descriptions to be more accurate and overall they fit better. The descriptions are a load of bs thou. I'm starting to think both systems are just so freaking flawed.

The enneagram just works for some reason.

EDIT: Oh w8 I am onto something! :D function usage in socionics for me is a mix of Ne Fi te Si, delta quadra...hmm hmm. it is starting to make some sense!

Delta Quadra
FiNe: Ethical Intuitive Introvert
SiTe: Sensing Logical Introvert
TeSi: Logical Sensing Extrovert
NeFi: Intuitive Ethical Extrovert

Starting to like socionics. *_* yay FiNe - EII Humanist! :p that is the one that works for me, good description as well.
 

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MOTM February 2014
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What is a common defense mechanism, however, is what Crumble posted recently: seeking others to reassure or validate. It's possible that this sort of thing is more phobic than cp. I imagine that the cp'ers do something quite similar, but more subtle, like slyly looking for validation without wanting to be found out. Regardless, it's much more common in a 6w7 to seek other's opinions, and that's generally where the "reliant on others" comes from.
It occurred to me that 6w7 cp'ers would probably seek out people who represent their fears and are able to be "beaten" in some way. "I'm not afraid of you! See, I'm right here in yo' face!" Of course, I don't mean "beaten" like physically beaten up or verbally chewed out, but that would be the extreme version.

Also, I tease lovingly...
 

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I'm a 6w7, and I have a lot of trouble with my introversion and extroversion preferences. Sometimes when I need to be extroverted, I find myself wanting to introverted, and vice versa - it creates a social mess sometimes. I still haven't been able to balance this out.

I can be both heavily extroverted when I have the opportunity or heavily introverted when I have enough deep social connections to keep feeding off of.

Have you ever found yourself wanting to socialize, but not being able to do so because of practical life limitations and then find yourself beating yourself up for a)having the dark thoughts in the first place and b)beating yourself up for not being able to be alone when there's no other alternative.

Anyone have any practical solutions to the 6w7 E/I imbalance?
It's a chaotic push and pull that ends up in either some very creative journal writing, or a very restless night.
 

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I used to call myself an ambivert. I was pretty torn between e/i until I decided that my socionics type is definitely an introverted type. Actually the other alternatives to the type were all introverted types too. Sometimes the line between the dichotomies / preferences in mbti is blurry. I went around as an antp. Some people said thats not possible, with the jungian functions - but by now most people know what I think of those. Not much.

So anyway, what makes me seem more extroverted than a 6w5 - I'm looking more externally to settle anxieties. And by anxiety here, I don't mean only freakouts.. I just mean the undercurrent present in a 6. I also think the 7 wing makes 6w7 a bit more light-hearted, or less serious than 6w5. I look at myself in contrast to a 6w5 I know; how we approach things differently. I see that archetype as more like a cop archetype, where they will sit back and analyze before engaging. I just jump right in often, and in a very friendly way, often with not much suspicion or pretense - those come later, an afterthought, and it may make me reconsider engaging that person again later.

6w7 is also more prone to whimsies.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I used to call myself an ambivert. I was pretty torn between e/i until I decided that my socionics type is definitely an introverted type.
Hmm interesting my socionics type is EII and I have no doubts about that one being it. Everything about it just seems to fit in a way.

I have also been wondering about something. I don't really like admitting this because it sounds strange. Most of my anxiety comes from my fear of being rejected and criticized, because I read people in a social setting constantly, I'm afraid of making the wrong moves, saying the wrong things and upsetting others. I have a problem balancing my own needs with the needs of my parents, and others or how they think I should be. Basically I am scared of deviating from accepted values...even if I just know that they are not exactly right.

For example admitting that I am sort of an atheist comes with anxiety and bracing myself for incoming criticism, so I mostly just shut up about it and play along.

Is this Fe? If not then what is it? Why do I do this? Why am I looking for answers outside of myself and why don't I get what is going on inside me?
 

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Hmm interesting my socionics type is EII and I have no doubts about that one being it. Everything about it just seems to fit in a way.

I have also been wondering about something. I don't really like admitting this because it sounds strange. Most of my anxiety comes from my fear of being rejected and criticized, because I read people in a social setting constantly, I'm afraid of making the wrong moves, saying the wrong things and upsetting others. I have a problem balancing my own needs with the needs of my parents, and others or how they think I should be. Basically I am scared of deviating from accepted values...even if I just know that they are not exactly right.

For example admitting that I am sort of an atheist comes with anxiety and bracing myself for incoming criticism, so I mostly just shut up about it and play along.

Is this Fe? If not then what is it? Why do I do this? Why am I looking for answers outside of myself and why don't I get what is going on inside me?
Fe or social variant.. Yeah, I find it hard sometimes to distinguish between the two things.

Not all Fe people will necessarily want to keep the Fe bubble from popping though. Some of them like to influence it, jangle others, make an impact, and change the emotional atmosphere. Beta Fe types that I know of in particular.

Since you are describing it as an anxiety, I would think its coming from your social variant. Its said that 6s, seeking support, and security, will look to: their significant other if they are sx, their peer group/community/etc. if they are so, and to a higher power or some kind of structure they have internally if sp. The variants would each have a different behaviour manifest per each type, but apparently thats a sign of 6 - where they seek security. If you make an arse of yourself in front of your peer group, you might feel that you're losing them, losing their support.

As an sx, I am very tied up into my mate.. to the point its stressful. That is where I seek approval, and fear screwing up, because thats my compass..
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Fe or social variant.. Yeah, I find it hard sometimes to distinguish between the two things.

Not all Fe people will necessarily want to keep the Fe bubble from popping though. Some of them like to influence it, jangle others, make an impact, and change the emotional atmosphere. Beta Fe types that I know of in particular.

Since you are describing it as an anxiety, I would think its coming from your social variant. Its said that 6s, seeking support, and security, will look to: their significant other if they are sx, their peer group/community/etc. if they are so, and to a higher power or some kind of structure they have internally if sp. The variants would each have a different behaviour manifest per each type, but apparently thats a sign of 6 - where they seek security. If you make an arse of yourself in front of your peer group, you might feel that you're losing them, losing their support.

As an sx, I am very tied up into my mate.. to the point its stressful. That is where I seek approval, and fear screwing up, because thats my compass..
Hmm, then@Paradigm is right about so/sx in my case. So is my crutch and thus my most overused instinctual variant.

Still no clue about the MBTI ENFP is not really working out, I'm melancholic, EII, a 649...the dots do not connect with ENFp as an MBTI type...it makes no sense. I just constantly feel that it is wrong...don't know why thou.

:p it is kind of bothersome. I have to have it settled and precise (can't complete the signature below without it), it is no good if I constantly feel it is not the right type. It isn't the options I have....more like none feel right...can't put my finger on it why. It simply is a gut feeling i have and that is the reason I keep switching types.
 

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If I am left alone in a room with only books to read and not much else to do...I will be able to take it for about an hour. After that I will start losing my mind, I'll get impatient and will start to fluctuate between bored and drained - energetic and struggling with crazy ideas of escaping.

I neeed external stimulus, this is why I constantly listen to music even when I am reading. Multiplayer online games can hold my interest for hours or games like Skyrim or a good strategy game. I can read about different theories and stuff that interests me so that can keep me satisfied for hours as well.

The biggest problem I face is my own thoughts which are constant and relentless. If I have nothing to ponder then I will ponder everything at random and come up with interesting discoveries...which I then absolutely must share with others. If other people are not around so I can do a "brain dump"... I will get annoyed and depressed.

Simply put if I can't share and get feedback...that sux. ^^ which is why I love PerC.

The following song describes my relationship with the MBTI thou (how you get the meaning of the lyrics *_* if not then ask and I will explain muhahaha!


Title: My Favourite Game
Artist: The Cardigans

I don't know what you're looking for
you haven't found it baby, that's for sure
You rip me up, you spread me all around
in the dust of the deed of time

And this is not a case of lust, you see
it's not a matter of you versus me
It's fine the way you want me on your own
but in the end it's always me alone

And I'm losing my favourite game
you're losing your mind again
I'm losing my baby
losing my favourite game

I only know what I've been working for
another you so I could love you more
I really thought that I could take you there
but my experiment is not getting us anywhere

I had a vision I could turn you right
a stupid mission and a lethal fight
I should have seen it when my hope was new
my heart is black and my body is blue

And I'm losing my favourite game
you're losing your mind again
I'm losing my favourite game
you're losing your mind again
I'm losing my baby
losing my favourite game

I'm losing my favourite game
you're losing your mind again
I tried, I tried, (but you're still the same) I tried
I'm losing my baby
you're losing a savior and a saint

:p the problem here probably has something to do with how MBTI functions differ from Jung's original function descriptions. They are not all the same. I have found Socionics function descriptions to be more accurate and overall they fit better. The descriptions are a load of bs thou. I'm starting to think both systems are just so freaking flawed.

The enneagram just works for some reason.

EDIT: Oh w8 I am onto something! :D function usage in socionics for me is a mix of Ne Fi te Si, delta quadra...hmm hmm. it is starting to make some sense!

Delta Quadra
FiNe: Ethical Intuitive Introvert
SiTe: Sensing Logical Introvert
TeSi: Logical Sensing Extrovert
NeFi: Intuitive Ethical Extrovert

Starting to like socionics. *_* yay FiNe - EII Humanist! :p that is the one that works for me, good description as well.
Hope you dont mind me quoting a month old post lol.

But yeah, I can relate a lot. I seem to spend time in my head to think about values, but I need stimulation and the only place to find stimluation is by being extroverted (for me).

But since I have social anxiety due to undeveloped social skills which was due to something else, I think I rely on NE many times rather than Fe.

But I think I secretly want Fe, a lot, more than anything else. I mean, a group of loving friends would be a 1000 times more cool than being in the most amazing looking scenery.

in fact, I'd rather have a group of good friends than have a time warp machine that could take me to any place in the galaxy or to any time in history, honestly. Easily, not even a doubt in my mind about it. (though the galaxy thing would be really cool lol).

So although I might seem ENFP at times though not around people, i end up spending a lot of time inside my own head trying to figure out whats wrong, because i think its Fe i want to be using not Ne.

But that doesnt mean i cant use all the values I learned with Fi or Ti or whatever.

And as I learn to use more Fe i think ill be able to use Ni for my introversion, when I can just relax and suck in the world and its spirituality.

But Ive got nothing but bound up repressed energy, so until I get t oexpress myself freely around a group of people, as the best example, Im not going to be patient enough to use Ni, or content enough not to use Fi.

Sorry for ramble *scared look

Go type 6 though! :D :)
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Hope you dont mind me quoting a month old post lol.

But yeah, I can relate a lot. I seem to spend time in my head to think about values, but I need stimulation and the only place to find stimluation is by being extroverted (for me).

But since I have social anxiety due to undeveloped social skills which was due to something else, I think I rely on NE many times rather than Fe.

But I think I secretly want Fe, a lot, more than anything else. I mean, a group of loving friends would be a 1000 times more cool than being in the most amazing looking scenery.

in fact, I'd rather have a group of good friends than have a time warp machine that could take me to any place in the galaxy or to any time in history, honestly. Easily, not even a doubt in my mind about it. (though the galaxy thing would be really cool lol).

So although I might seem ENFP at times though not around people, i end up spending a lot of time inside my own head trying to figure out whats wrong, because i think its Fe i want to be using not Ne.

But that doesnt mean i cant use all the values I learned with Fi or Ti or whatever.

And as I learn to use more Fe i think ill be able to use Ni for my introversion, when I can just relax and suck in the world and its spirituality.

But Ive got nothing but bound up repressed energy, so until I get t oexpress myself freely around a group of people, as the best example, Im not going to be patient enough to use Ni, or content enough not to use Fi.

Sorry for ramble *scared look

Go type 6 though! :D :)
Recently I have come across something that is helping me deal with and understand these problems from a scientific perspective.

It is "DR. Paul Dobransy Mind OS 2nd Edition", he has this presentation and workbook on the subject. I got it via torrent ^^; if you won't get into trouble getting it that way then I recommend it, if not then google it. His stuff starts out a bit strange but about 6% into the subject...I went "Ok...wow!...so this is what is happening to me!?" It just makes sense and I'm sure it will be of use to you.

EDIT: ^^ and yeah E6 is pretty awesome.
 

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Ace of Spades
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I think Type 6 in general is fairly ambiverted. It goes along with the whole contradictory nature and the doubt vs loyalty.

A big reason I'm not a core 5 is because I'm not withdrawn enough despite being an introvert.
 

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MOTM January 2013
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What is a common defense mechanism, however, is what @Crumble posted recently: seeking others to reassure or validate. It's possible that this sort of thing is more phobic than cp. I imagine that the cp'ers do something quite similar, but more subtle, like slyly looking for validation without wanting to be found out. Regardless, it's much more common in a 6w7 to seek other's opinions, and that's generally where the "reliant on others" comes from.
Bang on. Yes, adopting quite subtle and sometimes effective strategies for finding out what we want to know. I use this tactic for a lot of things like if I think someone has been lying, I will approach them in a friendly, 'lets have a chat' type thing and then ask vague questions at first so it doesn't look conspicuous. And then when I think I am heading down the right road, ask more defined questions all the while maintaining the 'friendly chat' approach. I have to be careful with this approach because people are not as naive as they appear to be. So not always the recommended approach because somehow it conflicts with my values as an INFP, I like honesty and integrity but sometimes, its just too scary to ask outright what people think.
 

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I have 6w7 in my tritype and despite my core type being withdrawn (4w3), my 3 wing and 6w7 make me sometimes seem more extroverted. My auxiliary Fe might also make people think I'm relatively extroverted. I, too, calm down through some kind of stimulation. Sometimes reading is fine, but I often prefer social connection through internet forums/LiveJournal.
 

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What I've found is that introverts, even when talking, will slip into their own mind for a bit, and then come back to the conversation.
Interesting observation. I definitely do this. (I know I'm an introvert though ;p)
 

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I'm a 6w7, and this was one of the primary problems in determining my MBTI type. I couldn't quite decide between ESTJ and ISTJ, and only settled upon ISTJ because I fit Fi as defined by such people as Lenore Thomson and Linda Berens better than Ne as defined by those individuals. Indeed, the way the Ne attitude was described seemed essentially completely incomprehensible to me.
 
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