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There are several enneatypes that at first glance may resemble the type 8, but sure to rule out each one before typing yourself as an 8. Or, if you are wondering about your enneatype than feel free to read these descriptions

Counter-Phobic 6:
The counter-phobic, unlike the Self-pres, has a denial of fear, they will do everything in their power to prove to themselves most of all that they have absolutely no fear. This is the type of person that is on the edge of danger, the fighter pilot, the karate master, the vigilante, or the high-risk wall street banker who makes insane bets and wins the gamble. This is the fanatic who has absolute certainty in their ideological basis. The prototypical Cp-6 is the ENTJ. This is also the hardest type to type since their a head type, but they have a denial of fear, and a propensity to act against it to a very high degree.

Self-Preservation 7:

This 7 has a gluttony for materialistic opportunities. Ever met a person who's always looking for a deal and trying to get a deal? A person who's always chasing down a deal to extreme ends? That individual is an Sp-7. The SP-7 is not very gullible either and can be quiet confrontational as well to act tough, but the reality is that they have a fear of pain and won't be able to take on the confrontation. This 7 is also seeking to have "allies" to whom he makes a lot of promises, when healthy they are very good @ fulfilling them and looking out for others, when their unhealthy though they are remorseless and don't care at all for the needs of others they will only do enough to get them on their side. The need for family is a denied need for them, like all other desires for a 7 is burying a very big fear.

Sexual 4:
More 8 than 8, this is a very amped 4 that is downright shameless and has a denial of shame similar to how the Counterphobic 6 is in full denial of their fear. Unlike the So-4 who has become the stereotypical 4 that R&H and the American Enneagram keeps circulating (Sp-4 is incredibly different), their needs are not criminalized, and infact they couldn't see their wishes not coming to pass, they are going to do what it takes to reach them. This 4 is also very masochistic (most masochistic is the Sp-4) and does not care about the pain that they will endure. THey will have a strong desire towards someone and at the same time have an intense hate towards them. Overall, this is a scary and highly driven individual.

Sexual 1:
The most common description is that of the SO-1 which feels that their "already perfect", the Sp-1 is constantly anxious and feels that they must have everything set and correct, that they do not deserve to survive, the Sp-1 also has a death wish towards others underneath the surface. The Sx-1 feels that they have the right to dictate to others how they ought to be in order to have their world of perfection matched. THey've also got the idea that if they are virtuous than they have the right to dictate to others how its going to be. Unlike the other type 1's, this type is incredibly lose and unrestrained, they are constantly reframing their ethics and codes and see how restrictions are in the wrong. Ayn Rand is an Sx-1 which I hope helps in attuning your intuition to this type.

Sx-2:

"I FUck therefore I am". This type is also about the seduction and the chase which brings them to life. This type is very seductive is the femme fatale, just think of the bond girls who are all very seductive and leads him around all over the place. WIth this 2, they lose interest once they've seduced their pray.
 

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Sexual 4. Pretty accurate for me. It was especially confusing being thinking type and having 8 in my tritype.
 

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The description of a Sexual 4 is very simplistic and rife with stereotypes to the point that it resembles a fictional character more than a real human being. Also, it focuses on a few neurotic behaviours that are in no way an accurate description of most Sx Fours. Despite being counter-shame, Sexual Fours are as much entangled in their own negative emotions and feelings of inferiority as the aforementioned Social Fours (although they're frequently covered up in anger or hate). Although it's true that Sx 4s are driven and not afraid of pain (this is what causes the mistype with id types, not only 8, and sometimes cp6), this is by no means the main aspect of their personality. They're as emotional, sensitive, guarded and struggling with doubt about their worth as the other subtypes of type 4. I'm not sure what you mean by "scary", unless you want me to believe that Sexual 4s are serial killers.

Please, tell me, how is ENTJ a prototypical cp6, if what you focused on (thrill-seeking behaviour and risk-taking) is associated with Se dominance in MBTI? I must say that your cp6 description is even worse than Sx 4 and proves you have little understanding of each type. Most counterphobic Sixes have no wish to engage in very dangerous behaviour for the sake of "proving they have absolutely no fear". Also, I don't really understand the part about fanaticism, which sounds more like an unhealthy version of type 1. Quite the contrary! Sixes constantly doubt their beliefs and thoughts, and it's very unlikely they become fanatics just from that very reason. "What if I'm not right?" is a typical question Sixes ask themselves.
 

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I don't really understand the part about fanaticism, which sounds more like an unhealthy version of type 1. Quite the contrary! Sixes constantly doubt their beliefs and thoughts, and it's very unlikely they become fanatics just from that very reason. "What if I'm not right?" is a typical question Sixes ask themselves.
I think Naranjo addressed that too: it is because you are unsure in yourself that you become fanatical: blind, absolute devotion/loyalty to a cause/ideal. It's like when you're on slippery ground that you really hold on to a rail or whatever you're grabbing. A healthy devotion to something is like "Yes, I'm for it but we can still discuss, I'm open to entertain/defend your challenges" You see here the person is sure in his inner guidance: whatever comes up he can deal with it. By contrast, an unhealthy devotion is like "This is the truth and don't you dare suggest anything else [because it would show the kinks in my armor and I might attack]" This person has little inner guidance, the ideal/cause is his guidance and he can only fight/attack in the name of this authority
 

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I think Naranjo addressed that too: it is because you are unsure in yourself that you become fanatical: blind, absolute devotion/loyalty to a cause/ideal. It's like when you're on slippery ground that you really hold on to a rail or whatever you're grabbing. A healthy devotion to something is like "Yes, I'm for it but we can still discuss, I'm open to entertain/defend your challenges" You see here the person is sure in his inner guidance: whatever comes up he can deal with it. By contrast, an unhealthy devotion is like "This is the truth and don't you dare suggest anything else [because it would show the kinks in my armor and I might attack]" This person has little inner guidance, the ideal/cause is his guidance and he can only fight/attack in the name of this authority
What you wrote just made it sound even more like type 1. "Evil must be purged in the name of God, the divine authority!"
 

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Self-Preservation 7:

This 7 has a gluttony for materialistic opportunities. Ever met a person who's always looking for a deal and trying to get a deal? A person who's always chasing down a deal to extreme ends? That individual is an Sp-7. The SP-7 is not very gullible either and can be quiet confrontational as well to act tough, but the reality is that they have a fear of pain and won't be able to take on the confrontation. This 7 is also seeking to have "allies" to whom he makes a lot of promises, when healthy they are very good @ fulfilling them and looking out for others, when their unhealthy though they are remorseless and don't care at all for the needs of others they will only do enough to get them on their side. The need for family is a denied need for them, like all other desires for a 7 is burying a very big fear.
Thanks for making this thread, it's well-needed.

I want to add a few exceptions to this to Sp 7 though. It is a common misconception that 7's fear pain to the point of slithering away from it when things get rough. This is not an accurate depiction of how all 7's deal with pain, though it does apply to some. Pain to 7's doesn't come from the outside - it comes from inside, and they in fact ignore outside pain to grab outward to compensate for this.

7's develop willpower because their separation from Being was influenced by a premature separation from something or someone in their life. They learn to "go without" and "do on their own" without complaining out of survival. They can stick around for that very reason - they learn to obtain on their own, and ignore unpleasantness that comes with grabbing out. In fact, if conflict makes them feel as though they are filling the void, they can continuously move forward with conflict as a way of escaping pain when an 8 would simply swat it away.

Many 8's, (particularly 8w9) are actually very laid back and calm. Unlike a 7, they are sure of their position through conflict. They have no need to withdraw to their heads to re-assess a conflict before continuing, and decisively cut through it even if they know they are acting stupidly or are entirely wrong. However longer or shorter their conflict be than those of 7's, 8's don't fight with nervous purpose. If it gives them control, they may cut things off and cite the 7 as childish (rightfully or not) while the 7 goes on.



The difference between Sp 7 and 8 is that the 8 is decisive and the 7 is flexible, not that the 8 is willful and the 7 not.
 

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Thanks for making this thread, it's well-needed.

I want to add a few exceptions to this to Sp 7 though. It is a common misconception that 7's fear pain to the point of slithering away from it when things get rough. This is not an accurate depiction of how all 7's deal with pain, though it does apply to some. Pain to 7's doesn't come from the outside - it comes from inside, and they in fact ignore outside pain to grab outward to compensate for this.

7's develop willpower because their separation from Being was influenced by a premature separation from something or someone in their life. They learn to "go without" and "do on their own" without complaining out of survival. They can stick around for that very reason - they learn to obtain on their own, and ignore unpleasantness that comes with grabbing out. In fact, if conflict makes them feel as though they are filling the void, they can continuously move forward with conflict as a way of escaping pain when an 8 would simply swat it away.

Many 8's, (particularly 8w9) are actually very laid back and calm. Unlike a 7, they are sure of their position through conflict. They have no need to withdraw to their heads to re-assess a conflict before continuing, and decisively cut through it even if they know they are acting stupidly or are entirely wrong. However longer or shorter their conflict be than those of 7's, 8's don't fight with nervous purpose. If it gives them control, they may cut things off and cite the 7 as childish (rightfully or not) while the 7 goes on.



The difference between Sp 7 and 8 is that the 8 is decisive and the 7 is flexible, not that the 8 is willful and the 7 not.
THATS! what I forgot to add about the Sp-7, the Sp-7 is the most resilient of the 7's and has the easiest time bouncing back form difficulties. That is also a very good point as well here, 8's are very laid-back and quiet overconfident in their ability, most 7s are not that confident as an 8 is internally.
 
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THATS! what I forgot to add about the Sp-7, the Sp-7 is the most resilient of the 7's and has the easiest time bouncing back form difficulties. That is also a very good point as well here, 8's are very laid-back and quiet overconfident in their ability, most 7s are not that confident as an 8 is internally.
Well, and to add one thing that I think you have captured here that is critical, is that 3 of the 5 types you have listed are Idealists - 1, 4, and 7. However closely these types resemble 8, they are also prone to idealizing 8 in part because of the type's lionization online, and in part because they are prone to themselves fantasize ideas until they realize that their constructs arise from their imagination, not reality. Once I began to trace things I do that probably are 8-ish, I kissed the fantasy goodbye. They are no more or less worth praising or criticizing than any of the other types.

7:

  • An Sp 7, especially a 7w8, is easy to mistype as an 8. Their introversion flips the planning inward and gives a closer connection to 5, similar to the "strategizing" 8's do when they disintegrate. They will also be able to trace their sadism. You can catch their mistype two ways - first, and most reliably, by noticing that their attention is too scattered to be immediately decisive without having time to assess first. Second, their bravado usually precedes action\, and it sometimes takes the place of action instead of following it.
1:
  • You can catch the 1 by realizing that they are behaving with respect to a set of principles that they themselves have not created. They are still seeking control and influence, but not out of sadistic drives, and not out of id-driven reactivity like the 8. They aren't following their own muse, they're following what their superego first dictates.
CP6:
  • You can catch the cp 6 by noticing that they are actually unsure despite their aggression, similar to the 7. I think is also has a more defensive, urgent, responsive feel to it, and lacks the feeling of potential myopic harm. When you press them, they have trouble pressing you back with the same position they have always had - it's more lashing out than it is trying to control you. I personally find them more accessible and likeable without a pre-established close connection when healthy.
I haven't met an Sx 4 and don't buy into them looking like 8's. The 2's I think could be extremely difficult to flesh out.
 

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THATS! what I forgot to add about the Sp-7, the Sp-7 is the most resilient of the 7's and has the easiest time bouncing back form difficulties. That is also a very good point as well here, 8's are very laid-back and quiet overconfident in their ability, most 7s are not that confident as an 8 is internally.
8s are less confident than you think, likewise 7s can be very confident internally.
 

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Excellent Thread Topic



Sexual 4:
More 8 than 8, this is a very amped 4 that is downright shameless and has a denial of shame similar to how the Counterphobic 6 is in full denial of their fear. Unlike the So-4 who has become the stereotypical 4 that R&H and the American Enneagram keeps circulating (Sp-4 is incredibly different), their needs are not criminalized, and infact they couldn't see their wishes not coming to pass, they are going to do what it takes to reach them. This 4 is also very masochistic (most masochistic is the Sp-4) and does not care about the pain that they will endure. THey will have a strong desire towards someone and at the same time have an intense hate towards them. Overall, this is a scary and highly driven individual.
I saw the other comments about this being "overstated" or over-glorifying and I get it; this isn't the whole picture of type 4. But you hit the nail on the head in terms of how someone can seem from the outside. I know a SX 4 (if you take tritype into account he's 8 fixed) who is FUCKING OUT THERE, unstoppable, more animal than an animal.



Sx-2:

"I FUck therefore I am".
Lol.
 

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I think Naranjo addressed that too: it is because you are unsure in yourself that you become fanatical: blind, absolute devotion/loyalty to a cause/ideal. It's like when you're on slippery ground that you really hold on to a rail or whatever you're grabbing. A healthy devotion to something is like "Yes, I'm for it but we can still discuss, I'm open to entertain/defend your challenges" You see here the person is sure in his inner guidance: whatever comes up he can deal with it. By contrast, an unhealthy devotion is like "This is the truth and don't you dare suggest anything else [because it would show the kinks in my armor and I might attack]"
Good point about health vs. unhealth.


This person has little inner guidance, the ideal/cause is his guidance and he can only fight/attack in the name of this authority
Any 4 I've met is their own authority, hands down. 8s don't want to be controlled and know that they can't be controlled, but 4s will actually say it any time they have a chance... "I can't be controlled. NO ONE can control ME. I will be my own person and fit my own mold. I will not conform!" etc. Like so:



They are so driven to be their own person that they will make decisions that aren't rational and pragmatic in terms of money, survival, self-preservation... in order to maintain a sense that they have their own identity, they made their own decision, and nobody else told them who to be. The world can take it or leave it. But it's frustrating because then the 4 may "never be accepted" and deep down, wants to be accepted for who she is. (There's your frustration triad and envy: everyone else is accepted; I am not.) Still, the 4 refuses to change who she is. Her self-image is up to her, and she'd rather be herself and suffer through loneliness than live a lie and succumb to the normal, boring bullshit imposed by the world. (There's your line to 2, pride.) But at least she's honest, real, true to herself. (There's line to 1. A 4's interpretation of 1-like ideals is being true to self... growth is letting go of boundaries they set through self-defining and realizing that all people are of the same origin.)

Naranjo mentions that some 4s manipulate through tears and getting others to do things for them. However he also describes 4s who are independent to a fault, who have a romanticized idea of who they are and long to live in a completely different kind of world that would accept them, or who just feel endlessly frustrated and unsatisfied with the way things are, and as though they can't fit the mold; so they take matters in their own hands and don't expect anything from anyone. Like he said about SP 4: "See how much I suffer, how much I endure? Do you love me now?" SX 4: "You are taller than me so I'll cut your head off."

IMO an sx/sp 4 can look pretty 8ish.
 

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You missed Type 3.
Sp-3:
Driven go-getter, compassionate leader, can appear emotionally cold but has a big heart underneath, if you can get through the armor. Allergic to failure; will go after what she wants relentlessly, even to the point of being ruthless toward others who are in her way.

So-3:
Add the above to a champion for social justice.

IMO, Sx-3 is not as 8-like especially in women. Sx-3 women are not "one of the boys" and "all my best friends are guys" and "I wear clothes to the bar that I can wrestle in the mud with." Of course, this COULD happen if that is her sort of "self-image," but I don't see many female SX-3s behaving that way. Their femininity is important to them whereas SX-8 females can 'feel' more rugged, even if they wear dresses and have gorgeous feminine figures or delicate features. I realize this is a drastic over-generalization and there are exceptions but we are talking about 'trends' and how things 'seem', so there is my personal observation & 2 cents on that topic. I just fail to see your typical female SX-3 'hangin with the boys' the way SX-8 females do, even if an SX-3 female is up for winning a competition like wrestling or drinking the bartender under the table.
 

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The description of a Sexual 4 is very simplistic and rife with stereotypes to the point that it resembles a fictional character more than a real human being. Also, it focuses on a few neurotic behaviours that are in no way an accurate description of most Sx Fours. Despite being counter-shame, Sexual Fours are as much entangled in their own negative emotions and feelings of inferiority as the aforementioned Social Fours (although they're frequently covered up in anger or hate). Although it's true that Sx 4s are driven and not afraid of pain (this is what causes the mistype with id types, not only 8, and sometimes cp6), this is by no means the main aspect of their personality. They're as emotional, sensitive, guarded and struggling with doubt about their worth as the other subtypes of type 4. I'm not sure what you mean by "scary", unless you want me to believe that Sexual 4s are serial killers.
Thank you.

The Sx 4 description made me criiiiiinge. It's absolutely terrible. Just.. no.
 

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IMO, Sx-3 is not as 8-like especially in women. Sx-3 women are not "one of the boys" and "all my best friends are guys" and "I wear clothes to the bar that I can wrestle in the mud with." Of course, this COULD happen if that is her sort of "self-image," but I don't see many female SX-3s behaving that way. Their femininity is important to them whereas SX-8 females can 'feel' more rugged, even if they wear dresses and have gorgeous feminine figures or delicate features. I realize this is a drastic over-generalization and there are exceptions but we are talking about 'trends' and how things 'seem', so there is my personal observation & 2 cents on that topic. I just fail to see your typical female SX-3 'hangin with the boys' the way SX-8 females do, even if an SX-3 female is up for winning a competition like wrestling or drinking the bartender under the table.
You won't see many Sx 3 males hanging with the boys either. They will hang out during the more normal stuff but other than that they aren't really down with anything to crazy, all though there can be some exceptions especially if they are 3w4 with an 8 or 7 fix, but even then they tend to stay away from anything too exotic.
 
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