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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'd like to know what, if any, authorities (people, groups, ideas, the law) the rest of you 8's have been ok with submitting to. And in what capacity? (fully, partially, temporarily, blindly)

I'm curious. Oh, and I'm responding to my own post next, but I wanted the question to be on its own first. Please share.
 

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Law-partially. People- never but I defer to wisdom in someone once in awhile. Groups-no. Ideas- I live by my own. I also try to watch my words over people I believe they have a tremendous amount of power.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
So then here's my deeper question, I suppose: is that fulfilling? I've lived fairly similarly to that for most of my existence (minus tempering my words) and still am restless and harbor a general feeling of disconnection from...life, really.
 

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So then here's my deeper question, I suppose: is that fulfilling? I've lived fairly similarly to that for most of my existence (minus tempering my words) and still am restless and harbor a general feeling of disconnection from...life, really.
From life as in living it fully and enjoying every moment, or life as in interpersonal relationships and intimacy.. or life as in a disconnection from society as a whole?
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
A disconnection, but not from people. From something more cosmic (call it Tao for now) that doesn't include people's self-interest. I wouldn't define "life" as having anything to do with deep intimacy, I think we're all very much individual even in our togetherness. People are great. But they're not that universal intangible.
 

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A disconnection, but not from people. From something more cosmic (call it Tao for now) that doesn't include people's self-interest. I wouldn't define "life" as having anything to do with deep intimacy, I think we're all very much individual even in our togetherness. People are great. But they're not that universal intangible.
Curious. Most people would define it as exactly that. What do you consider Tao? What does it represent to you?
 

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I have a hard time just seeing authority. Work, I know where I belong, there's a structure. Outside of work, I have a harder time noticing authority.

I have an 8 wing.
 

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The law..basically and for pragmatic reasons.

I see it as working with authority as opposed to submission necessarily. Authority exists to be manipulated for personal gain. If co-operation furthers my interests, that's just cool with me. If the authority disadvantages me, I go around it, leave the situation for greener pastures or challenge it, whatever's best for the situation.

I am willing to learn from someone I consider competent or wise, but submission/deference have never been my thing.

-extremelylikely8fixed id core
 

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I take a game-theory and probability approach to the law, or any form of authority. I think the whole notion of "authority" is abstract in a way, in any given situation any person only has as much authority over you as you're willing to give them.
 

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I don't submit. I respect.

Doing something well takes work. People ask me, "How do you write a song?" and I want to laugh in their face.. like.. I've done this since I was eight years old, taken various music lessons, practiced a lot, listened to great music, played with other great musicians; it's a lifestyle. Yes I was born with a natural talent and proclivity toward music and songwriting but it's not magic; skills have to be honed, channeled, earned. This is the only way to communicate, to be a vessel through which honest sentiments emerge.

Likewise people who wrote laws spent their lives doing politics, studying humanity or whatever. I also think some of them are idiots or just "lucky" much like many of today's pop stars. Pop stars today don't necessarily 'make it big' because they put in a lot of work or have a lot of talent. Of course once they are signed, they do put in a lot of work - touring isn't easy, whether you suck or you're good. So for that I salute them. Same with politics. These people might have twisted motives, some might be more self-serving or ignorant than others, but they did it.

I don't want to be bothered to write laws. I'm too busy making my music. So regardless whether I agree with the law or think "I could do it better," I will follow it, unless it suits my purposes to break it, and my purposes are worth the risk of punishment.

I also don't want to be bothered to run a company. If I'm being paid a salary to work for someone else who put in all their time to make this company work, and I'm spending that money recording my record, then while I'm on their clock, I am their slave. While I'm on my clock, I use the money I earned for my own purposes. If I'm uncomfortable doing what they ask me to do, I will lay out their options plain and simple, and tell them, "I love working here, but I don't feel comfortable doing X, so I understand if you want to replace me. If not, let's discuss..."

Ditto with being in someone else's house. I don't care how ridiculous or OCD they seem. They want my shoes off? Fine. They ask me not to touch the couch? Fine. They want me to cover myself in flour? Well I might not want to do that, so then I might not come over; or I would tell them, "If you really want me to cover myself in flour, I don't feel comfortable coming over." But I won't tell them "It's wrong to ask me to cover myself in flour inside YOUR house." When someone is in my house, which I took the time and money to put in order the way I like, I would expect the same respect.

My problems with submission pertain to the relationship arena. I have trouble submitting to vulnerability. I express all my vulnerable emotions, my desires, cravings, needs, rejection fears... all in my songs and writing and art, so this way, when I come back into 'the real world' everything has been brought to surface and burst out of me like a phoenix and I'm reborn, pure. I'm ready to face the world, armed, because I've already faced myself. I am allergic to "doing it together" or facing myself in the presence of someone else. I'm allergic to being vulnerable to others.
 

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PS. i read the other posts on this thread and i'm surprised people categorize law as authority. law is fluid and subject to change as people's perceptions change. it's not an authority in any sense of the word. it's a general set of ideas the population on average agrees upon in current moment of time. i agree with some ideas that are law (i'm against murder, for example) but it's not because of law that i hold such points of view. i hold them despite what law has to say on them. if murder were legalized i would still be against it. and i don't follow the speed limits on a perfectly navigable autostrada just because someone thinks they should be there at all times. i am who i am and i do what i do, law or no law. i've never seen it as authority.
 

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PS. i read the other posts on this thread and i'm surprised people categorize law as authority. law is fluid and subject to change as people's perceptions change. it's not an authority in any sense of the word. it's a general set of ideas the population on average agrees upon in current moment of time. i agree with some ideas that are law (i'm against murder, for example) but it's not because of law that i hold such points of view. i hold them despite what law has to say on them. if murder were legalized i would still be against it. and i don't follow the speed limits on a perfectly navigable autostrada just because someone thinks they should be there at all times. i am who i am and i do what i do, law or no law. i've never seen it as authority.
I might not have thought of it either but others were posting about laws so I threw that in. I really don't spend much time thinking about authority, what constitutes authority, or any aspect of authority. I don't think about whether I am an authority. It just doesn't cross my mind. I respect people's property or the fact that they're giving me a paycheck.. All the stuff I explained before. I don't see them as an authority over me as a person; I simply figure out what would wield the best outcome in the situation. What do I really want out of it? A paycheck. Why would I create issues with someone who is paying me then? It's more about holding to my own word and my own side of the agreement, than some belief about authority. Same goes for laws. As I mentioned before, I follow it because it's convenient unless it suits my purposes to break it and my purposes are worth the possible consequences.
 

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Only authority to me is my family and my close ones. Everyone else can go take a stroll for all I care(or jump off the bridge /shrug). I also conduct by the rules of law, but not because I value them or even respect them(I don't). It's simply easier that way for all parties involved. Anyhow, I don't care 2 flying rats arses about the law. You simply have to follow it, no questions asked. I hate this, but...we are not barbarians are we?

And sth I CAN'T(no seriously) STAND is when some wise guy(I chose to be polite lol) is teaching me "HOW I SHOULD/MUST THINK". I highly dislike educating in all forms Save the self-education anyhow. An 8 thing eh? ;)
 

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I'd like to know what, if any, authorities (people, groups, ideas, the law) the rest of you 8's have been ok with submitting to. And in what capacity? (fully, partially, temporarily, blindly)

I'm curious. Oh, and I'm responding to my own post next, but I wanted the question to be on its own first. Please share.
I am my own authority. Only God is above me.
 

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Define "submit" lol.

I avoid doing things that will produce results that I don't want. It's easier to submit or compromise sometimes, such as within personal relationships, or when your own basic livelihood is on the line, as those are probably the two things I value over everything else.
 

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I'd like to know what, if any, authorities (people, groups, ideas, the law) the rest of you 8's have been ok with submitting to. And in what capacity? (fully, partially, temporarily, blindly)

I'm curious. Oh, and I'm responding to my own post next, but I wanted the question to be on its own first. Please share.
I'm not fully sure if I'm qualified to answer this question as my self-typing is fairly recent, but I will answer anyway.

Submit is not a good word, "go along with" is better.

I try to follow the law but I often forget, especially in the heat of a moment, and that has gotten me into trouble several times. I know I should take it more seriously but I have a hard time doing so, I'm often worried about this tendency....

In a work setting, I will go along with whomever is superior to me, usually that is not a problem. Actually, it hasn't ever been a problem for me with one exception, but I have been blessed with good superiors so far. In the one situation I didn't, it was with this belligerent self-righteous lady who thought herself truly a superior being to everyone around her. I do not take orders, I'll only do things if asked respectfully. When she tried to order me, I gave her a piece of my mind in front of everyone -- clients, other employees. My manager told me to chill out and respect her and I backed off afterwards but everyone there collectively agreed w me under the table, and the bitch didn't touch me again in the future except with the utmost respect, so that went well.

In terms of parental authority, I have always clashed w both. My mother is an 8w7 and has a generally controlling nature so her and I have never gotten along. My father was respectful and permissive of me for the most part, it was not until later in life that we had issues.

Schoolwise, I've never taken teachers/professors seriously.

Peerwise I have never submit to anyone.

I'm not religious so that is out of the picture as well.

Again, I do not submit, but I do go along with gladly, as long as everyone is being respectful, mature, and thinking in the right direction.

Hopefully this has answered your question and aided you in your quest. Lol

Edit: Oh, in significant relationships, I love to submit. I think it is a very healthy thing to do, to empower your loved one. My loved one has grown immensely, she is a much stronger and more independent person than when I first met her, and that makes me very happy. I also like to submit to her because in a way it is very relaxing and relieving to know that there is someone else who can take over and do the work whom you trust. I adore her.

That being said, I always make sure that underneath it all, I am holding the reins. I am pretty controlling, but it is not a need of mine to control the relationship. My attitude has always been if you don't like it, then you can go to hell, I will survive no problem.

I submit to her but only from time to time, and if all is playing out within my boundaries.
 

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I take a game-theory and probability approach to the law, or any form of authority. I think the whole notion of "authority" is abstract in a way, in any given situation any person only has as much authority over you as you're willing to give them.
Pretty much.

"Change the game, don't let the game change you." Macklemore & Ryan Lewis
 

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I was unemployed, needed a job. I interviewed.

during the first interview, I told the lady I'm really good if you tell me WHAT you want done, and WHY. You can even tell me how people in the past have done the task.
But if you tell me HOW to do something, step by step, I'm the wrong person. I will not be micromanaged.

She hired me. She did not wish to micromanage, and she likes she can give me broad tasks with objectives, and I get them done. And when I step on someone's toes along the way, she is great at basically telling the person "he is doing his job. Did he not warn you to stand back? He did? Well then if you get tired of sore toes, listen a little closer."

And she can pull me into her office, close the door, and give me new information, and I can avoid the things she wishes me to avoid.

She is horribly unorganized systemically and I am helping her with that.

Her boss played games with my paycheck to teach me where power was. She is too stupid to continue being around me, so she is now on her way to Minnesota and my boss is getting a more intelligent boss.

I like the comment about the law and game theory. That is funny, and oh so apt.
 
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