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Discussion Starter #1
What does it mean to have a 9 in your tritype? What about it makes it an impossibility to have a 9 fix and another instinctual fix?
 

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9 always overrides any behaviours and attitudes that lead to arrogance. It helps me to go with the flow for the sake of harmony. It makes me a little reliant on others though to get their hands dirty whilst I allow myself to become absent and just let everyone take charge. It keeps me away from unneccesary drama. However, the downside is that I feel decisions are made and it upsets me sometimes that I am not consulted about it because they assumed I wouldn't mind. It causes me to feel like I don't exist or don't matter and ignored. I understand the feelings of invisibility that many 9's suffer with.
 

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MOTM Jan 2012
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What does it mean to have a 9 in your tritype? What about it makes it an impossibility to have a 9 fix and another instinctual fix?
Well, having any fix makes it impossible to have another fix in the same triad. Could you rephrase the question?

My 9 in my tritype is still under review at the moment, so I'm not going to get into specifics about it.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Well, having any fix makes it impossible to have another fix in the same triad. Could you rephrase the question?

My 9 in my tritype is still under review at the moment, so I'm not going to get into specifics about it.
My understanding thus far is that 1 fix would be are morally principled. They have a have an belief system in which they create a code of conduct around.

8s rely on a materialistic sense of fairness in which they feel out what is right and wrong in an intuitive fashion. They don't have a sense of idealism like the 1.

What is a 9 fixers stance, and how does it make the other two incapable of coexisting within the same individual?



9 always overrides any behaviours and attitudes that lead to arrogance. It helps me to go with the flow for the sake of harmony. It makes me a little reliant on others though to get their hands dirty whilst I allow myself to become absent and just let everyone take charge. It keeps me away from unneccesary drama. However, the downside is that I feel decisions are made and it upsets me sometimes that I am not consulted about it because they assumed I wouldn't mind. It causes me to feel like I don't exist or don't matter and ignored. I understand the feelings of invisibility that many 9's suffer with.
Read my response to madhatter to get on the same page as me.

Conflict avoidance is only an effect of being a type with a 9 fix. You can think anything, but not necessarily take action. Your response does speak to it indicating that you try to lack an opinion for the sake of peace. A set code of beliefs are not held closely for preservation of peace, and you do not try to sense injustices.

Your take @Boss? I know you're busy, but I feel you probably have a better understanding than most on this topic.
 

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My understanding thus far is that 1 fix would be are morally principled. They have a have an belief system in which they create a code of conduct around.

8s rely on a materialistic sense of fairness in which they feel out what is right and wrong in an intuitive fashion. They don't have a sense of idealism like the 1.

What is a 9 fixers stance, and how does it make the other two incapable of coexisting within the same individual?
Oh I see what you mean now. Coincidentally, reading your discussion with Boss in the Type Me thread actually got me thinking about this very question. No one ever talks about morality in a 9. It's always about peace and avoiding conflict. If I were to choose one for myself, I would fall more on the 8 side of spectrum (because of 9 with a strong 8 wing, possibly 8w9 fix). Do you think it's possible that 9s, being at the center and most removed from the Instinctual triad, are inert, because they are disconnected from their own code, and draw on everyone else's around them, in an attempt to merge with their environment (at average or unhealthy levels of course)?
 
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MOTM January 2013
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Conflict avoidance is only an effect of being a type with a 9 fix. You can think anything, but not necessarily take action. Your response does speak to it indicating that you try to lack an opinion for the sake of peace. A set code of beliefs are not held closely for preservation of peace, and you do not try to sense injustices.
No, I wouldn't say I lack an opinion, I still feel strongly about stuff. Its the way I say it or maybe indirectly say it when you put all parts of the jigsaw together. I just don't want to stir a drama.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Oh I see what you mean now. Coincidentally, reading your discussion with Boss in the Type Me thread actually got me thinking about this very question. No one ever talks about morality in a 9. It's always about peace and avoiding conflict. If I were to choose one for myself, I would fall more on the 8 side of spectrum (because of 9 with a strong 8 wing, possibly 8w9 fix). Do you think it's possible that 9s, being at the center and most removed from the Instinctual triad, are inert, because they are disconnected from their own code, and draw on everyone else's around them, in an attempt to merge with their environment (at average or unhealthy levels of course)?
9s active instinctual actions are said to be without strong feeling or thinking activity or at rest. The disconnect comes from putting up with other's POV's to not stir drama as mushroom displays in his latest post, and this fits my experience and makes sense in logically. I would suggest that the 8 and the 1 are both aggressive types which feel strongly when their instinctual morality is active. A 9 would always desire to stay at rest when something bothers them. The issue I see with this is is that each type of the other six types are only so assertive, and they are not a 1, 9, or 8. To say they'll always react or think a certain way because they're of an 8 tritype is inaccurate because they're not confined into the same state of mind that the 8 is.

My current stance on this is that we all take moral stances like a 1 and also EDIT: intuitively feel out a basic meaning of wrong doings due to emphasis on the materialistic realm similar to an 8. END EDIT What separates the 8 and 1 though is that they have a belief system built into their being which makes them try to deny that the other sense of morality exists. 1s must think out right and wrong to ensure they're staying within in their moral principles, and 8s deny that moral principles should exist because the world really works in a free for all. I currently wouldn't say I'd apply the tritype past either 1 vs 8 with a gradient involved because each individuals perception is not tied to this line of thought as heavily as the 1 or 8.
 

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MOTM Feb 2012
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@Wake: I think this is what you are looking for.

Type 8, often called The Boss or The Asserter. Aggression is directed outward against the environment (i.e. other people). There is little repression of inner impulses. When they are upset or angry they let you know it! Eights focus their attention outward in an expansive, vital way and have trouble relating to the world because they seek to resist or control their exterior environment. Eights don’t want to be affected by the external world so they repress fear and vulnerability in themselves. They use their aggressive energy to dominate their world and maintain control over their immediate environment. It is as if an Eight subconsciously thinks, “Nobody is going to harm me. I’m going to keep my guard up and be tough so that nobody can take advantage or hurt me.” In repressing their soft side and maintaining a confrontational stance, Eights can lose the ability to be close to others or to trust anyone.

Type 1, often called The Perfectionist or The Do-Gooder. Aggression is directed inward against themselves. By contrast, Ones direct their aggression inward rather than outward like Eights. For Ones there is great repression of inner impulses. Ones have trouble relating to the world because they are resisting and controlling their inner environment, particularly their instincts and aggressions. Ones want their inner life to be orderly and consistent so they try to repress all parts of themselves that don’t conform with their ideals. They get angry with themselves in an effort to keep themselves in line but they can also be aggressive with others when they feel that their self-control is being threatened by another’s behavior. Ironically, the more Ones try to control themselves, the more obsessive and out of control they get.

Type 9, often called The Peacemaker or The Mediator. Aggression is directed both outward and inward at “threats.” Nines tend to deny their aggression, as if they don’t have any. They have trouble relating to the world because they resist both the external environment and their internal fears and anxieties. Nines do not want certain inner feelings and thoughts to disturb their equilibrium. They want their reality to be peaceful and free of conflicts and problems. So, like Ones, they suppress powerful instinctive drives and emotions. At the same time, Nines hold a strong ego boundary against the outer world because they don’t want to be hurt, like Eights. To keep their outer and inner worlds calm and harmonious they repress their anger and aggressive feelings but in the process they also repress their sense of self, their own identity, their own individuality. Nines try to control the world passive-aggressively – by ignoring whatever parts of it make them feel uncomfortable.
(Source)

Thus, it is almost like Type 9 encompasses parts of both 1 and 8.

EDIT: I honestly don't think morality has much to do with the differences between 1, 8, and 9. Morality separates Type 1 for sure, but the others, not so much. It definitely has to do more with where we place our aggressions.

Conflict avoidance is only an effect of being a type with a 9 fix. You can think anything, but not necessarily take action. Your response does speak to it indicating that you try to lack an opinion for the sake of peace. A set code of beliefs are not held closely for preservation of peace, and you do not try to sense injustices.
I disagree. Conflict avoidance is the heart of the 9 fix. If someone has a 9w1 fix, they will be able to sense injustices because of their 1 wing. A code of beliefs is definitely held. I think this whole discussion is purely dependent on how much Type 1 is represented in someone's overall type.
 

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There was a time when I was considering 9w8 as my core type - but then I realized that I actually loved battling more than I believed. I get into truckloads of fights, conflicts, arguments, debates and I like the feeling of feeling powerful. I enjoy winning debates. But not as much as a core 8 would. I do it because it's good for the image. I do it because I like it when others are watching me stick up for the innocent underdog.

For me, there was a time when I was considering core 9. I think it's somewhere in there --- but whether it's my second, or third fix is lost. I looked at the 8w9 description and this is how I related to it.

At the moment, 8w9 for me is having that little warning flag [when I'm engaged in a heated debate, discussion/argument] that goes "Dude, calm the F down ... others are watching ... and you might be coming across as an a******!" So, in other words it regulates the 8 and normalizes it so to speak. I usually walk away before things get "really" ugly --- but I don't mind sustaining a conflict for as long as it takes to come to some sort of internal resolution.

Pfft ... I dunno .. that's how I see it now anyways. It's a lot more clearer to me than it used to be. All things flow from a desire for likeability, appreciation, validation ---- and once I know that those are already in place, then I engage.
 

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I think the Instinctive triad is called such because this triad deals most directly with the outside world. They formulate standard operating procedures for dealing with that sort of thing. You'll see a more "selfish" (I hate that word) worldview with Eight because the desire to be independent naturally builds up walls. This is mirrored in the Eight stress arrow to Five; Five has a similar sense of isolation but uses assertiveness to break out of that. Eight and Five are like two sides of the same coin in that sense. Anyway, the influence of the Id is very clear here. (Impulsiveness etc)

Meanwhile, Ones have a Superego-oriented view toward the outside world where they create an ideal model of human interaction based on internalized concepts of right and wrong.

Nine is harder to fit into the puzzle but it makes sense when you consider that Nine is an Ego type. Ego, in the Freudian sense, doesn't mean that someone is full of themselves. The ego is the conscious mediator between the impulsive id and the perfectionist superego and feels torn between that. You can see that mirrored in how a nine conducts themselves in the outside world. They may have a need to create balance in the world around them because they have that raw connection to the outside world.

That's a fundamental part of personality theory that I never really talk about but deserves mention. I think that a lot of fixations (especially Enneagram) result from the poorly-charted chasm between the inner personal world and the outer world. Personality is like a special lens that highlights some things and obfuscates others. What we fear in ourselves is what we tend to see in the outside world; if a nine has an inner fixation on the balance between id and superego, they may look at the world and see it as a struggle for balance. A six may see doubt in themselves and then see the world as similarly full of doubt. I think this comes from the fundamental metaphysical "shock" of being a sentient individual who is obviously different from everything else, yet is intimately connected to it. This goes back to the concept of unity in the enneagram. Of course, all those threats might actually be out there. It's just that personality tends to cause people to emphasize some things more than others.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
@Wake: I think this is what you are looking for.



(Source)

Thus, it is almost like Type 9 encompasses parts of both 1 and 8.

EDIT: I honestly don't think morality has much to do with the differences between 1, 8, and 9. Morality separates Type 1 for sure, but the others, not so much. It definitely has to do more with where we place our aggressions.


I disagree. Conflict avoidance is the heart of the 9 fix. If someone has a 9w1 fix, they will be able to sense injustices because of their 1 wing. A code of beliefs is definitely held. I think this whole discussion is purely dependent on how much Type 1 is represented someone has in their overall type.
Hmm... Type 8 and 1 are both perceptions, but perhaps the 9 is a perception also. Seeing all sides of an argument because they do not hold their own closely enough to act on them until really pushed.
 

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I have a 9w1 gut fix and it's my second strongest center. However, due to being a primary 4w5 and an Sx/Sp, I am a rather individualistic and assertive nine. My core 9-related belief is that no one should impose their will on others. I seek to be understanding, accepting, and to look at things from others' perspectives. That being said, I am very confrontational when I deem something to be a threat to my or others' freedom, identity, or safety. This actually happens very often.
 

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Hmm... Type 8 and 1 are both perceptions, but perhaps the 9 is a perception also. Seeing all sides of an argument because they do not hold their own closely enough to act on them until really pushed.
I don't know what you mean by "perceptions"...
 

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9s active instinctual actions are said to be without strong feeling or thinking activity or at rest. The disconnect comes from putting up with other's POV's to not stir drama as mushroom displays in his latest post, and this fits my experience and makes sense in logically. I would suggest that the 8 and the 1 are both aggressive types which feel strongly when their instinctual morality is active. A 9 would always desire to stay at rest when something bothers them. The issue I see with this is is that each type of the other six types are only so assertive, and they are not a 1, 9, or 8. To say they'll always react or think a certain way because they're of an 8 tritype is inaccurate because they're not confined into the same state of mind that the 8 is.
Maybe that's true for a core nine, I don't know. But as a four with a nine fix, I certainly don't desire to stay at rest when something bothers me. I have strong opinions and feelings, but I would agree that my nine fix damps me down a bit. I have a hard time sustaining my anger/indignation and channeling it into something constructive. It tends to wane and I forget about it.

As far as morality/values go, kind of as @Bumblyjack says, I hate it when people disrespect others' right to live peacefully and autonomously. If someone steps on an insect or cuts down a tree or leaves trash all over the place, or defaces someone's art, for example, it makes me very upset. And I might pick up the trash, and I'm always rescuing insects or looking on the ground so as not to step on them, etc, but I'm not out there preaching to others about it or enacting legislation. I'll sign a petition but I'm not going to start the petition, and I'm not going to carry it to city hall. I'd rather just live my life in a peaceable fashion vs trying to change others. Because I empathize with the insect or the tree in a very instinctual, "we are cut of the same cloth" sort of way, I recognize its inherent right to exist.

There's this film called All the Little Animals. In it there's a man who wanders the country and spends his days burying roadkill animals. I see this as a very nine-ish sort of morality- providing respect to those forgotten by others in a quiet, solitary way.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Maybe that's true for a core nine, I don't know. But as a four with a nine fix, I certainly don't desire to stay at rest when something bothers me. I have strong opinions and feelings, but I would agree that my nine fix damps me down a bit. I have a hard time sustaining my anger/indignation and channeling it into something constructive. It tends to wane and I forget about it.

As far as morality/values go, kind of as Bumblyjack says, I hate it when people disrespect others' right to live peacefully and autonomously. If someone steps on an insect or cuts down a tree or leaves trash all over the place, or defaces someone's art, for example, it makes me very upset. And I might pick up the trash, and I'm always rescuing insects or looking on the ground so as not to step on them, etc, but I'm not out there preaching to others about it or enacting legislation. I'll sign a petition but I'm not going to start the petition, and I'm not going to carry it to city hall. I'd rather just live my life in a peaceable fashion vs trying to change others. Because I empathize with the insect or the tree in a very instinctual, "we are cut of the same cloth" sort of way, I recognize its inherent right to exist.

There's this film called All the Little Animals. In it there's a man who wanders the country and spends his days burying roadkill animals. I see this as a very nine-ish sort of morality- providing respect to those forgotten by others in a quiet, solitary way.
It sounds like how much each person relates to a type more than what could be considered a fixation from that description, which is why I've never believed in the tritype.

Boss made a good point regarding views of morality in 1 vs. 8, so I thought it would be best to understand why a 9 couldn't coexist in the fixation process. 8s perceive the world in a way which is more materialistic, and everyone is out for their own needs. 1s view things in an idealistic form of how things should go best to make all fair. 9s seem to fit into this as someone who doesn't create ideals or desireful thoughts, but looks to others for guidance because they don't carry their own closely enough. I'm having trouble finding alternative positions for a 9 past that because it is a matter of perception of reality, not how you tend to act.
 

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It sounds like how much each person relates to a type more than what could be considered a fixation from that description, which is why I've never believed in the tritype.

Boss made a good point regarding views of morality in 1 vs. 8, so I thought it would be best to understand why a 9 couldn't coexist in the fixation process. 8s perceive the world in a way which is more materialistic, and everyone is out for their own needs. 1s view things in an idealistic form of how things should go best to make all fair. 9s seem to fit into this as someone who doesn't create ideals or desireful thoughts, but looks to others for guidance because they don't carry their own closely enough. I'm having trouble finding alternative positions for a 9 past that because it is a matter of perception of reality, not how you tend to act.
I'm not big on tritype either. I don't think I really shift to fixes, what I notice more than anything in myself is my lines of integration and disintegration and my varying levels of health. The head and gut types I list are ones I relate to, and I see essences of them in my personality. Saying I'm a 459 is essentially shorthand for I'm a withdrawn, relatively easy going and cerebral four.

I probably shouldn't have used the word ” fix” before to describe the nine I see in myself, it's more like a nuance or essence, a vibe. I know I am remarkably different than core nines.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I'm not big on tritype either. I don't think I really shift to fixes, what I notice more than anything in myself is my lines of integration and disintegration and my varying levels of health. The head and gut types I list are ones I relate to, and I see essences of them in my personality. Saying I'm a 459 is essentially shorthand for I'm a withdrawn, relatively easy going and cerebral four.
I've found relief in understanding other's perceptions and trying to see the world as others do to not cling to mine so much. In my case the 1 needs a stronger focus on thought and questioning instead of the characterizing and resentment. The 8's focus on the material aspect of this world is something I find interesting to try to apply to myself and become a little more enlightened. It's not a traditional approach to health, but identifying with type 7 never will work because I still have too separate of values of them. A type 4 may experience similar issues with a 1.

You've really got to get down to the central belief of a type to take on their perspective and lessen your own though.
 
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