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A Caring Rational?

4K views 43 replies 31 participants last post by  jehosafats 
#1 ·
Well, I dunno about you guys, but I kinda get worked up over little things.

I rarely give things to my friends usually just relying on how well we get along. Usually I just pick a random gift, but the real gift I emphasize is the presentation. Usually I somehow tailor the gift to the person's personality/interests, but I don't know whether people consider that as a gift or not. Also, I feel like gifts pressure people to make happy emotions. It's sort of like Christmas and how you don't get what you expected.

Well, they're probably happy either way because random gifts (which are really apologies but they don't know) are a good way to brighten their day somehow....even though it's probably going to clutter their houses maybe a month down the line and never see the light of day again. Huh, maybe the gift is in the moment of giving.....

OK. That was a large digression. I was just wondering whether you guys get worked up over gift-giving or expressing care for your friends and family. I just feel like rationals get labeled as socially inept really often around the internet and it gets boring to keep on reading and discussing the same sorts of things.


tl;dr
How do you guys show you care about others?
Does gift giving ultimately damage or enhance a relationship?
 
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#2 ·
I have basically no social skills to speak of, so my go-to tends to be "Do you need anything?" rather than trying to guess something on my own.

I imagine that gift-giving makes a relationship stronger in whichever direction it was already going: if the relationship is already positive, then the other person will appreciate that you got something, and if they relationship is already negative, then the other person will think you're trying to buy your way out of any problems.
 
#9 ·
Haha, that "Do you need anything?" reminds me when we (students) were asked how we make friends (in 6th Grade) and I said "To use them." (of course it just meant that people hang out with others if they have something to offer)

I completely agree with that rationale about gift-giving. That's a really fun way of looking at it. Kinda makes gifts seem like a buffer or something. Haha, we're speculating reactions towards a gift.

How do you deal with that conclusion though?
It should be obvious, but acting on it is a different story...
 
#3 ·
I don't think I can say that I get worked up over gift giving or expressing that I care. Actually, I don't really say that I care, but rather show it instead, like through the act of volunteering or taking care of the daily needs of my little boy. I don't see how gift giving would damage a relationship, at least when it's warranted. I think it would be fun to find a gift for someone, like challenging myself to see if I can get it right.

It does get rather boring, or even annoying to keep reading how NTs are cold. It's gotten to be a mantra.
 
#11 ·
Yeah, saying you care is a lot more blatant and raw than just doing it. Maybe that's just me.

I react more than say what I think most of the time. Maybe rationals are labeled as cold because that's how society needs them to be. I wonder if there is a real difference sometimes....(probably).
 
#4 ·
I rarely give gifts. I don't get them often either. One thing I tend to do tough is giving people food. Like, I often ask friends over for dinner, or bake a bunch of cookies and just hand them out to everyone.

I hadn't even noticed that other people don't do this. I just figured that when I bake something, I can't eat it all yourself, so I might as well share it. And I always found it easier to talk to people over dinner.
 
#5 ·
I don't neccesarily go out of my way to show that I care. I figure that's self evident if I seek out and enjoy your company. If I'm already planning to bake and I know I'll be seeing a friend with a sweet tooth later that day I'll probably set some aside for them but that's about the extent of it.
 
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#6 ·
I consider myself a very caring individual, and most people who know me would agree. But I'm not exactly the warm, mushy, emotional sort of caring most of the time. I too enjoy giving people very heart-felt gifts which show my appreciation, such as a replica of something from their favorite TV show or a book they'd mentioned wanting to read months ago. I put a lot of thought into Christmas gifts when I have the energy. I don't necessarily worry about it, especially when it's someone other than my significant other.

NTs can be just as caring as anyone else. Whether or not we can figure out how to express that care is another matter. I always think back to high school, when I watched one of my NF friends comforting a crying girl and asked her, "How do you do that? Can you teach me?" She said, "All you have to do is listen, give them a hug and say, 'Aww.'" To this day I have taken that method to heart.
 
#8 · (Edited)
NTs can be just as caring as anyone else. Whether or not we can figure out how to express that care is another matter. I always think back to high school, when I watched one of my NF friends comforting a crying girl and asked her, "How do you do that? Can you teach me?" She said, "All you have to do is listen, give them a hug and say, 'Aww.'" To this day I have taken that method to heart.
Does it ever feel formulaic to you though? This feeling of "canned response" just keeps on popping up...it's like it's somehow too easy and too automatic to just do what the person would respond to. As Holden Caulfield would say, I'd be a phony.
 
#7 ·
You may be confusing the T in nt to mean that we use thinking 100% of the time over feeling when I'm reality we just use it predominantly. If we did not feel then we would not be far off from sociopaths.

A history lesson for you: it is believed we have emotions as a direct result of sorting out what to do with spur of the moment stimuli. For example, if a tiger jumps out at you it would be in your favor to have a surge of adrenaline to tell you to either fight the tiger or flea as opposed to standing there thinking about how to deal with the tiger. After we started building villages and civilizations, feelings then adapted to help us develop better relationships with one another. Sociopaths however always do what's best for them in one sense or another.

So to answer your question, we do feel. Speaking from personal experience, being introverted I do tend to not show my feelings very well. I'm not terribly comfortable with emotion, so when someone is upset I honestly do want to help, but I know that I deal with things differently than others when I'm upset (I use logic) so the golden rule of "do unto others as you'd want them to do unto you" doesn't really apply. I tend to be a bit like an actor and "exaggerate" my empathetic side. For example, if my gf is upset, I hug her and comfort her (typically following a somewhat scripted pattern) instead of explaining to her that it's illogical to be upset (which is what seems to calm me down).

showing that I care through body language, tone of voice, or even physical touch just doesn't come natural and it's not necessarily that I care what most other people think, but for friends and family who I do care about (especially those more prone to feeling as opposed to thinking) I do tend to exaggerate my actions to show them that I value them (because most people aren't logical).

Anyhow, I hope this helps. I certainly can't speak for the majority but maybe enough individual people will chime in to help give you a better understanding of what the general consensus is on this.
 
#17 ·
My social skills are not completely abysmal, but I tend to convey my sympathies by asking whether one wants something done or wants something as a gift or whatnot. As others have said, gift-giving is the best way of conveying gratitude without being so emotional about it.
 
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#18 ·
My love language is Acts of Service. I show I care by trying to relieve a burden for someone else. If I'm lazy, I'll get a gift (my second language of love).

Generally, if I'm giving practical advice or doing something for you, it means I care. I don't usually verbalize.
 
#19 ·
In terms of love languages, I'm more an acts of service person, not a gift giving person.
 
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#20 ·
I show my care for others by having discussions on various topics (school, current events, ideas, etc.). Playing video and board games is how we spend time together. I also try to sometimes share something I have with certain people (I like to give people a french fry whenever I buy them)

I'm kind of a scrooge with gift-giving. I actually only give gifts if I see that the person has been a good enough friend in terms of hanging out. I may sometimes reject giving if the person hasn't meet a certain agreement in my head (which I probably didn't say out loud) because I see it as an empty 'investment'. An example would be how I didn't give my entp crush a birthday present since she never gave ME a present and didn't invite to her party. true story.

I guess I'm just some selfish prick...
 
#23 ·
I'm not very fond of giving spontaneous gifts, I don't really see the point. I'm definitely not the biggest fan of showing emotions (I can talk about them but in this case I tend to remain quite expressionless and to explain them like it would be about someone else), although I do show care by offering practical advice and listening when appropriate. I also feel like simply spending time with people shows you care.
 
#24 · (Edited)
I don't care too much about gifts in general. So it is not a way to show my affection.

How I show I care...
Well first of all I tell it. Honestly and directly.
Secondly, since I care about few people, I think a lot about the people I care and I pay attention to them.
So, if I have the doubt that they can need me for anything or that they can be sad or upset, I try to overcome my reserved personality and ask them. And it is not so simple for me. Because I always have the fear to be invasive or to bother the people.
Actually if I share some of my time with you and I say that I care about you, well, it means that I already care a lot. You are probably in my thoughts much more than you can imagine.
And if you are upset, well I'll try to confort you (if I can and within my possibilities) to show my feelings and I need to stay close to you the most that I can. Even simpy being there. Until I don't see that you feel better.
Otherwise I would simply avoid you and surely wouldn't tell you that I care or that I worry about you.

I know that this is what people normally do with everybody, but for me it is something special reserved to very few people. I know that this may seem cold or heartless, but honestly I have problems showing this part of me, so it is reserved only for people I really care about.
 
#25 · (Edited)
When it comes to my female friendships I love to give material things, especially when they're extremely feminine and appreciative. This gift giving is reserved for my INFJ, INFP, ISFP, ESFJ, ISFJ, ENFP friends.

When it comes to men, I don't give gifts out like that. Not even if they're friends. Idk why. It's just a different dynamic.

Gift giving is very healthy in a relationship with an INFJ, ENFP, or ESFJ, sex doesn't matter. These are the types that just exude appreciation and happiness when given something they love. It can definitely make their day or week.

My favorite gift to give was to an INFJ. It was a white gold ring embedded with a pink diamond, her birthstone color. She was speechless and obsessed about the thought that went into it, when I decided to get it for her, how much it cost, what personal meaning it held for me... it made her genuinely very happy and was a healthy experience in our relationship.

But usually, if I really care about you, I'll show it with physical intimacy. I won't be able to keep myself off, and if I'm told to back off, I will take it as a blow to my emotions. I don't need gifts. I don't need you to perform tasks for me that I can do myself. I need to be touched and told that I'm loved and I need to do the same for my SO. If you can't meet those expectations, I take it as an obvious lack of care.
 
#26 ·
The answer of why I don't like the idea of gifts is answered in part by the 5 love languages. At least for me. I go to Christmas celebrations and tell my family, I just want to spend time with you. You do not have to get me anything. That is because when I read the gift section in the book and then took the test, I experienced zero affinity to the Love Language of Gifts. I find gifts pointless and unneeded, I have other needs that need to be fulfilled which is 50%+ quality time, 20% service, 20% touch and 10% words of affection. I don't know how accurate this is, because it can be situational, but it is true for the most part.
 
#27 ·
How do you guys show you care about others?

I have a lot of trouble expressing how much I care about someone, but I wouldn't attribute it to the type; I'd be sooner to label it a personal issue. It seems redundant to say, "I care about you" (there appears to be some implicit shifting of responsibility to the other person, even, to make someone not worry about them), so I'd much rather show it through my actions. Sometimes I wonder if it is better to be expressive of these things; certainly it's not nice to come across as uncaring when you've actually just spent the whole night thinking about their issue and are still burned out when you run into them again. And it makes me wonder if some outward displays of emotionalism are actually quite superficial - surely if someone felt this strongly every single time, they would burn out fast.

I try not to bother people close to me excessively with my concerns but prefer to address those myself, though if I really needed to, they'd be the first people I'd go to for help. But I really try not to do that because I really hate the thought of someone worrying about me. So to some extent, I'm actually a little more withdrawn from people I know better because most of them are very caring, and I'd hate for someone to care too much.

But in terms of actions, things like generally keeping track of them, trying to help them with their problems/concerns, trying to figure out how they want to be helped (preference of an emotional or rational appeal?), maintaining conversations on a regular basis if they're the chatty type, trying to be useful in whatever way I can.

Does gift giving ultimately damage or enhance a relationship?

I love randomly buying things for people when they're not expecting it, especially if it's for a friend I haven't seen in a while, or if someone invites me over. I don't want/expect it in return because it was out of my own volition, and it actually makes me a little uncomfortable because I worry about how much money they spent or whatever (but it's a nice gesture). I really don't like getting presents during holidays/birthdays either and would prefer not to be given anything - spontaneous gift-giving is a genuine action, but corporate culture norms are quite another, and who wants to be a burden on someone else?

But it's a delicate line to walk. I think it's best for people to lay low on these things at first, and slowly build up to some comfortable level, whatever it is.
 
#28 ·
First of all, I just want to clear something up. It is a common misconception that Feelers are naturally going to be empathetic and kind and sweet and bubbly airheads whereas Thinkers are going to be cold, rational, logical, immoral bastards.

With that being said, as an INTJ, I'm not completely devoid of emotion. I do have some stereotypical INFJ-like empathy sometimes :)tongue:) I don't think that I can think of a specific way that I express my affection towards someone. For the few people I really, really care about in my life, I tend to express my affection a little more directly than usual. It also seems that I can have a reputation for being an argumentative bastard, but I guess the more I argue with you, that's a sign that I care about you.

As for gift-giving, I don't care much for being too extravagant or lavish in the number of gifts I give or receive, but I guess that giving gifts is a way of showing I care.

Cheers,
Dark and Derisive
 
#31 ·
With that being said, as an INTJ, I'm not completely devoid of emotion. I do have some stereotypical INFJ-like empathy sometimes :)tongue:) I don't think that I can think of a specific way that I express my affection towards someone.
I agree on this, at least concerning my few friends. I never say it out loud though but expect my actions speaking louder than words.
 
#30 ·
Hmm.. I personally rarely received gifts throughout my childhood (birthdays in asian families = dinner as usual but with more lavish food at the table than the norm). So now, when I'm older, I don't even like receiving gifts. In my circle of friends, we just go out and eat and hang out whenever its one of our birthdays. It's simpler, everyone has a great time and its guaranteed to have the night end on a good note. However, it did stump my experience in choosing the right gift if the situation requires it.

It made it quite aggravating and stressful when I was trying to pick out a gift for my ex for Valentine's Day. I literally sat in front of my computer looking up gift ideas, thinking about possible gifts, over analyzing everything which lead me to doubting that its a good idea. The cycle then repeats until I've literally wasted days trying to find something. I guess I'll just stick with physical intimacy and a fancy, surprise dinner either at home or at a restaurant instead.
 
#36 ·
I don't see how giving gifts can damage a relationship unless there's just one party doing the giving.
I show I care about others by putting thought into my gifts, if I haven't done so, I'd probably feel kind of awkward about giving someone a crappy gift.
For example, if my SO mentions a video game or a bottle of wine he really wants or is into I'll most likely take a mental note and will randomly surprise him one day. And vice versa.
 
#40 ·
I don't see how giving gifts can damage a relationship unless there's just one party doing the giving.
I've always imagined that giving gifts increases somebody's opinion of you, but doesn't change it.

If they already think that you're a good person, then giving them gifts will reinforce the idea that you want to make them happy.

If they already think you you're a bad person, then giving them gifts will reinforce the idea that you think you can buy them off.
 
#37 ·
If I give a gift, it's usually a practical one and it's almost always only to my significant other. My family doesn't speak to me, anymore, so I don't give them anything nor am I one for Hallmark holidays. When I do give someone something, it also tends to be expensive and I do think it can ruin a relationship because the other person might start taking advantage of you.

Most of the time, I consider my time to be worth more than gifts, but others don't see it that way. They think my time is free and and that they should have as much of it as they want when they want it. I value my time dearly, so that isn't something we see eye to eye on, either.
 
#38 ·
I am a nice person in general.
I don't believe animal euthanasia is moral, not if we wouldn't do the same for a human. A human gets cancer and doctors fight everyday to try and fix it or keep the person alive. A cat gets cancer it's probably going to be put down. This doesn't make sense to me and violates my values (A feeling thing!!)

I have considered many times allowing a homeless person to live with me until they got back on their feet (assuming I could afford it and wouldn't be killed in my sleep).



I'm not a bad person. I'm kind, selfless (at least sometimes), genuinely caring (when I do)...

But I separate values from truth seeking. I refuse to accept any religions stance on the origin of the universe or life. Evidence points against so much of what is written in holy books of every religion, that their argument for God being the answer lacks merit.
It is a cop out to say "well, we don't currently understand what happened so it must've been God."
We didn't understand many things in the past (which we claimed God was the answer for) which we now know the actual truth for.
Evolution is an example.

That's just an example of values over truth, but, it isn't limited to religion.
 
#39 ·
I am a nice person in general.
I don't believe animal euthanasia is moral, not if we wouldn't do the same for a human. A human gets cancer and doctors fight everyday to try and fix it or keep the person alive. A cat gets cancer it's probably going to be put down. This doesn't make sense to me and violates my values (A feeling thing!!)
I agree on this, actually INTJs like me aren't really considered animal-loving type either, but my personal values are strongest around this area.

In my opinion animals have the same needs as humans, they're just measurably different like for all species, and guess no-one would be living a worthy life if there's no room for own natural needs or choices. In practical world, there's where you can't play just values-world anymore, the situational part comes in too, which makes things more complicated.
 
#41 ·
There are many ways to show you care about someone. It can be through emotional expression and thoughtfulness, empathy, appreciation or acts of kindness. Investing resources (or rather, forgoing them) to help someone can also signify a level of compassion. If you're willing to sacrifice some of your time and/or money in an attempt to enhance the relationship with no obvious or direct personal gain or expecting a return in favour, then you're signalling that you intrinsically value the relationship.
 
#42 ·
There are many important people in my life and I think that's good to show them from time to time that they mean a lot to me. I enjoy giving gifts to the people important in my life. I'm not big into surprises because I hate surprise gifts. I'll tell you what I want and I try to be very clear about it. I don't like getting things that I can't find a practical use for or an intellectual interest in.

Which is why I work very hard to ask what my family/friends want or need so I can get it for them. It's my way of showing that I listen to what you're saying and I care about you without having to get mushy in person. I'm also much more comfortable expressing my emotions through the written word, particularly letters, than telling someone to their face how much they mean to me.
 
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