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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The 4 Temperaments in Socionics (Ej, Ij, Ep, Ip), though seeming to be minor details in the overall picture of Socionics, probably play a much larger role than one might anticipate. The temperament of a sociotype provides a glimpse of his or her "life rhythm", which in turn sets a somewhat important factor for inter-type relations. We can generally define these rhythms through these definitions:

Ej - Taking Action (Affecting a situation or things)
Ip - Observing Effects
Ep - Engaging Things
Ij - Establishing Order

Right now, we'll be focusing on Ep and Ij, which are opposing rhythms (produces relations of supervision, mirror, and conflicting). These two rhythms, thus, openly conflict with each other, considering that the Ep temperament is generally associated with chaos and that the Ij temperament is generally associated with order. It would be strange, then, to see a sociotype being strong in both the chaos of Ep and the order of Ij, yet we have this element pairing.

Take the LSI's mental block as an example:

Ti Se
Fi Ne

What we find is that the LSI excels in the establishment of logical order (Lead Ti), yet also excels in the chaos and impulsiveness of physical chaos (Creative Se). These two directives would seem to be contradictory, but we must consider the conditions that allow the LSI to excel so well in logical order in the first place. To establish order efficiently and correctly, the LSI would have to be able to identify and work with chaos, to break it down into parts to make it easier to understand what is happening. Now, the LSI, being a Sensing Sociotype, thus applies the Pe perspective to the physical, tangible realm of reality, thus, the LSI excels at identifying the chaos occurring in the physical environment, allowing him or her to efficiently categorize problems and fix them, all in the name of establishing logical order. Thus, the LSI's competence in the creative function is a method to deal with the opposing perspective of Ep, Chaos.

However, the other aspect of Pe (in the LSI's case, Ne), is an area of incompetence, and thus fully embodies this "opposing temperament" attitude in the sociotype. LSIs can easily organize physical chaos and understand that which is in the present moment, but when it comes to conceptual chaos, where there is aimless speculation and where there isn't a certain, unambiguous answer, the LSI is hopeless. Where the LSI is able to identify and troubleshoot the physical world around him, the conceptual battleground which is unfettered to reality is a chaos he or she dare not disturb for fear of it overrunning him or her. Thus, Ne becomes a Phobia, something that is desperately avoided, and something which the LSI is hypersensitive to notice at any hint of its appearance. This is why the vulnerable function acts the way it does, because it embodies the opposing temperament (Chaos juxtaposing Order), is weak, and threatens the very lifestyle of what the sociotype stands for.

Why does Pe allow Ji to organize chaos? Pe allows sociotypes to take note of the characteristics of phenomena (Se revolving primarily around physical properties and Ne revolving around the characteristics of concepts). Being able to take note of characteristics feeds Ji the information it needs to organize and establish order (Sorting things on a basis).

LSI:

Ti - Establishing Logical Order (Ji)
Se - In the Chaos that is the Physical World (Pe)
Fi - By Ignoring Ethical Qualms (Restrictive Ji)
Ne - And By Avoiding the Chaos that is the Conceptual Battleground (Phobic Pe)
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 · (Edited)
Now that we have established the concept of opposing rhythms for statics, it would be in our best interest to observe it in dynamics. As our example, I'll be using the EIE and the IEI, Mirror types.

Dynamic types see effects of things, they perceive what is affecting an object or situation (Ip), and they take action to affect something in their own best interest (Ej). Whereas with the Static Rhythms (Ij and Ep), where we saw order versus chaos in a simplified form, the antithesis here is taking action (participating) versus observing (spectating). You can not participate in something and spectate something at the same time; thus, Ej's naturally take the playing field while Ip's prefer to view the situation from an outside perspective.

Now, as before with statics in establishing order by identifying chaos, to enact change and to affect something, you need to observe how a situation is progressing currently if you wish to actually do so correctly. Thus, Ej's naturally rely on a creative Pi element to allow them to create change and affect a system. Let's take a look at the EIE.

EIE:

Fe Ni
Te Si

The EIE's lead element is an Ej element, extraverted ethics. Thus, the EIE is concerned with affecting people and causing change in the social landscape, being able to influence people emotionally. To do this, however, the EIE, being an intuitive, locks into the internal rhythm of a person (Ni), their psychological state, how they emotionally operate, so that they can perceive the system and know precisely what is already happening in front of them. Then, they can take action and influence the person correctly and with great expertise. In locking into the internal rhythm of a person, however, the EIE unfortunately fails to notice tangible changes in a person that signify emotional states, and may not, for instance, notice how the clothes a person is wearing signify their internal state, nor do they actively notice how physically comfortable the person is, nor any physical cues of discomfort (though they are able to sense it psychologically through the analysis of their words, most of the time, they just don't recognize the physical signals), displeasure, or any other physical expression of emotions. Thus, due to the fact that they observe the internal rhythm and the underlying meanings produced by a person, they subsequently fail to notice physical, tangible changes in a person constantly, and thus build a sort of phobia around information related to it (Si), due to the fact that their use of Introverted Perception is fully directed at Introverted Intuition.

Now, to understand the other perspective of Ip sociotypes, we turn to the IEI.

IEI:

Ni Fe
Si Te

The IEI, belonging to the Ip sociotypes, is concerned foremost with the passive observation of situations. Geared to Intuition, this passive observation is the cognizance of fluctuating, hidden meanings, and the internal rhythms of situations or things. Being an Ethical sociotype, Introverted Intuition is applied to the sphere of Extraverted Ethics (Ni-, Fe+) and is thus oriented towards perceiving the internal rhythms of people, the dynamics of the social realm (and even spiritual), and how people are affecting each other. Unlike the EIE, however, the IEI is unconcerned with actually affecting people so much as understanding people on a deeper, subjective level, how they operate. The EIE simply wants to know how people operate for the sole purpose of being able to affect them somehow (Creative Ni), the IEI wants to know how people operate just because, and so that the IEI can fully understand human nature, and/or the situation that is unfolding presently in the social sphere (rather than trying to affect it, Lead Ni). To help them understand how a person is operating, however, they must either do one of two things. The first way is by simply not acting and only observing a person, but this way is troublesome considering that the sole information supply is from introverted intuition. The other way it to step in and affect people and then to step back out and observe the person's reaction, so that the IEI will better be able to hone in on the internal rhythm and deeper psychological state of the person. Thus, while the Introverted Irrational IEI doesn't prefer to take action, when he or she does, it will be in affecting the social sphere and people, which subsequently means that they will entirely avoid situations where they must affect impersonal, logical systems by actions, as taking action in that sphere truly represents the opposing rhythm of Ej to the IEI.

EIE:

Fe - Affecting People Emotionally and Socially
Ni - By [Passively] Observing the Internal Rhythms of People to Understand the Conceptual Situation
Te - By Ignoring How Information Impersonally affects Logical Systems
Si - And By Avoiding the Immediate Changes in the Observable World to Understand the Physical Situation

IEI:

Ni - Observing the Human Condition, Internal Rhythms, and the Conceptual Situation
Fe - By Affecting People Emotionally and Socially
Si - By Ignoring the Physical Situation, and the Immediately Observable Changes in Reality
Te - And By Avoiding How Information Impersonally affects Logical Systems

Do note that, in this format, the failure in the Role function is the reason for the success in the Lead function, and the failure in the Vulnerable function is the reason for the success in the Creative function. It should then be looked at in this way:

"The LSI is good at Establishing Logical Order in the Chaos of the Physical Environment because the LSI Doesn't Notice, Concern Itself With, and Ignores Ethical Qualms and the Conceptual Chaos in the World of Speculation."

Success in personality, then, is determined by a sociotype's inattention to the problems of the Super-Ego block. If the LSI had to face Ethical Qualms, then the LSI would be unable to Establish Logical Order, as he must now not only organize things logically but ethically at the same time (which would get absolutely nothing done efficiently). LSI, while despising situations where they must categorize things as right or wrong, or realize the ethics of their own establishment of order, are concerned with how this establishment of order is and will be affecting people (Fe+ Seeking).
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Temperament in helping to type oneself:

The Life-Rhythms or Styles of the Temperaments, Part 1: Extroverted Temperaments -

Ej - I must be affecting something. I must be participating in something, actively striving to mold it into what it needs to be. I am the one who will influence how the situation is going. I must be making a direct difference all the time. I am the sum of my deeds and accomplishments.

Sub-Categories:


  • Fe - I must be influencing people all the time. I am a bad person if I am not affecting people in some way, and I am good at doing so. I must be involved with the people around me, actively taking an interest in the things they do (regardless of whether or not I myself would be personally interested), and tracking their emotional state so that I may help them in the area of emotions if they so need it. I am the sum of the people I help, associate with, and are friends with.

  • Te - I must be affecting the way things are run all the time. I am a bad person if I am not making things run smoother and more efficient than they already are. I must be creating change in the way we do business and the way we run things. There is always more work to be done that can propel perhaps me and even maybe my associates to a higher level or higher standard of influence in the world. I am the sum of my accomplishments, the things I've changed for the better, and the work I produce.




Ep - I must be engaging everything around me, allowing things to reach their maximum power or potential. I deal in excesses and strict jumps from one position to the next in a sort of hurried frenzy. I must act on whatever shows the most promise at the time, as not doing so will ruin an opportunity. Opportunities are very important to me, as who knows what interesting, intricate paths they'll lead me to? A wasted opportunity is wasted experience, and without taking chances and risks for those opportunities, society as a whole will simply stagnate and remain motionless, with no activity.

Sub-Categories:

  • Se - I must always be engaged in the physical world around me. Alert. Ready. Tense enough to react to whatever information will come at me next. I am quick to pounce on any opportunity in the immediate environment, and can sense weakness and strength well enough to know when to strike. What I want, I take (More -Se), and what I can't have and yet still want, I will fight for. I will not back down from a challenge; I will rise up to the occasion and perform to the best of my abilities, regardless of the sheer physical or psychological pain that attempt to sideline me. Whatever looks best in the moment is the route I take.

  • Ne - I must always be ready to realize the potential in everything around me to become something more than it already is. People are always too focused on the material, but what they don't realize is the power in ideas. Ideas reign over the land, and those with the most ideas is the one with the most power and potential. I look and see the people around me, either achieving their inner potential to perform and create, or wasting themselves away when they could be tapping into that raw, unbridled potential that lurks deep within them. I will not let myself waste away, I will always remain focused on my own potential to achieve whatever I want, and it will not be low if I cannot help it. And if I can, I will seek to help others realize their own potential so that they, too, can do whatever it is they want in life. What I want, I will achieve, out of sheer mental power and drive.

[Note, the impulsiveness of the Ep temperament leads them to muster the power to achieve what they want, but not what they necessarily must do. If they do not find it interesting, or do not find it challenging, it is not worth their time or effort.]
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The Introverted Temperaments will be here soon, but since I can't post it tonight, here's some food for thought:

"I have the Energy to ________."

  • Ej - Do anything and everything that I want or that is required of me

  • Ep - Do what I want and desire, but not what is required of me (if I don't find it interesting or relevant)

  • Ij - Do anything that is required of me (but subsequently I do not have the energy to do what I want to do)

  • Ip - Do nothing. I lack any energy to make myself do what I want and what is required of me.

All Extratims have the energy to do whatever it is they want.
All Intratims lack the energy to do what they want.

Do note that it is possible to self-mobilize yourself as an intratim to do whatever it is you want, but the actual problem lies in mustering the energy. Ejs can muster energy easily for anything, Eps can muster energy easily for what they personally find interesting or promising, Ijs can muster energy moderately (Intratims generally lack energy) to perform tasks that are required of them, Ips can't muster energy easily or perhaps even moderately at all for anything.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Temperament in helping to type oneself:

The Life-Rhythms or Styles of the Temperaments, Part 2: Introverted Temperaments -

Ij - Everything has its proper place in this world, no matter how out of place it may seem at the time, and I can help things find their proper place. From the chaos that encircles the world around us, there can be order if we have like-minded individuals all striving to organize it, so that it may thrive and be productive. I am the one who can establish this order, who can help the lost find where they are supposed to be.

Sub-Categories:

  • Fi - I must help people find their place in the world. I take note of the qualities of all those around me, and compare them to others. I know which people are complementary to each other, and I know which people are hazardous to each other. Everyone has unique qualities, and even though it may seem they are out of place due to some eccentric quirk, I know that somewhere in this world is a community where they can be accepted and can adequately "fit-in". I am generally tolerant, yet I am still firm in my judgments of people's character either way. I am the one who knows what is right and what is wrong, and who is bad and who is good. People's qualities just make themselves known to me, and I am able to take those qualities and set them to a good purpose, or perhaps even take note of subdued qualities and help enhance them.

  • Ti - Everything that happens in front of us is explainable. Everything that happens has a reason as to why it happens, even though it may not be known to us at the time. So, while it may seem that the problems encircling the world are completely chaotic and random, order can be established through the analysis and understanding of the issues. I am able to look at the outliers of the normal expectations and understand why they happen, and where they belong logically. My predecessors are those of early scientists, taking a strange assortment of phenomena and determining what they share in common to better understand them and in what logical grouping they belong in, like early biologists in a field observing different flora and fauna and realizing that some are more related to each other than others based on their features. I must observe the chaos that is our world and help sort through it, so that there is structure and order that will help our understanding of everything.


Ip - The world around us drifts in a sort of ebb and flow. I observe the ripples that things cause, watching all of the little tiny interactions as well as all of the major, dominating interactions that affect everything around them. Actions spark reactions. There is a certain fluidity to the way the world slowly slides forward, a cascading stream of events leading into more events, and thus slowly changing the environment around them, evolving to the effect produced by those events and actions. I am the one who watches these ripples where others simply pass them by. I can see everything, yet through this observation I lend myself short on participating to create ripples myself. No, I am content and satisfied to merely watch and enjoy the show unfolding before me, so that I may always be taking note of everything happening before me.

Sub-Categories:

  • Si - The world around us resonates with energy. Objects affect each other and those observing them; they speak their nature to us. A painting, for instance, can resonate with a certain melancholy from its deep, blackened shades of blue, and create a feeling of wishful reflection upon its viewers. There is an experience to be captured from all things, something that activates a deeper feeling from its qualities, whether it be the crisp air in dark, forested pines, or the scorching hot sands on an equatorial beach. The world around us gives us impressions that convey a deeper experience. People affect each other as well. Some people simply annoy us, others cause us anxiety just by making their presence known, and still others even make our heartbeats elevate joyfully from the mere thought of them. Everything leaves something with every other thing, an impression upon the very soul of an object or person, that can stay with them forever.

  • Ni - The world around is mysterious and all-connected. Every action has an almost invisible, intangible effect to a situation that could turn the tides of an expected outcome. A butterfly flapping its wings in Brazil, displacing seemingly unimportant water molecules, can cause a monsoon in India without even being aware of the land's existence, nor a world outside of which it has personally traveled. I can focus in on the rhythms of things, the invisible mechanisms on which things operate, their tendencies. I can establish a baseline for how something acts, and envision how it will act in response to a certain stimulus that it, perhaps, has never interacted with before. I can place things in situations and be able to derive what will happen merely because I am able to easily perceive how things affect each other. People, too, have their rhythms as well. I can understand a person from their reactions to certain things, understanding how they think and how they feel based on how they act in situations they are either familiar with or are unfamiliar with. I see the grander scale. I see the world develop before me, and I orient myself passively to slide into the more favorable course in the streaming river of cascading events.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Temperament Relations (Part 1 - Opposing and Quasi) -

There are four types of relations concerning temperament compatibility. I will call these relations the Opposing Temperaments, Quasi-Temperaments, Identical Temperaments, and Complementary Temperaments.

The Opposing Temperament:

The Temperament Relations:

  • Ej and Ip
  • Ep and Ij


The Inter-Type Relations:

  • Conflicting
  • Supervisee
  • Supervisor
  • Mirror


These temperaments seek to counter-act the other at every turn. Thus, Opposing temperaments will generally create a high tension between two sociotypes that embody both temperaments, even in Mirror Relations, but Mirror relations tension will be rerouted from general displeasure to a more competitive feeling. The Opposing temperament is the easiest to notice in another individual. This provides an easier way to figure out your own temperament. The way to go about it is to think of what kind of lifestyle you abhor or dislike in others. Are you displeased by people who act on impulsive whims and spur-of-the-moment decision-making? You might be an Ij. Are you displeased by people who are observers that don't participate or take any action whatsoever, people who simply go with the flow? You might be an Ej. The inter-type relations observed in this temperament relation are among the most undesirable in personality theory, excepting Mirror, as there are more commonalities.

Each Temperament seeks to uproot and undermine the other Opposing Temperament.

The Ij temperament attempts to establish order and structure. The Ep temperament attempts to cause unpredictable situations and disrupts order. These two temperaments actively work against each other.

The Ej temperament attempts to actively affect the way things are going to achieve desired results. The Ip temperament simply wants to observe how things are happening without disrupting the natural progression of events. These two temperaments actively work against each other.

It is, thus, easy to see why the more undesirable inter-type relations occur in Opposing Temperaments.

The Quasi-Temperament:

The Temperament Relations:

  • Ij and Ip
  • Ej and Ep


The Inter-Type Relations:

  • Beneficiary
  • Benefactor
  • Activity Partner
  • Quasi-Identical


These temperaments have two ways of manifesting depending on the type of inter-type relations observed. In Activity and Benefactor (You are a Beneficiary engaging a Benefactor), there is a high amount of attraction and intrigue, and the other temperament may seem mysterious and desirable. With Activity Partners, there is an extreme amount of intensity that is almost over-bearing to both parties in prolonged contact, and upon first contact both parties seem somewhat mysterious and intriguing to the other, especially if there is an element of sexual attraction (Warning: This description might be too Central Quadra-ish). With a Benefactor, there is a fawning over the Benefactor's use of the creative function, the suggestive element of the Beneficiary. The Benefactor is someone who is looked up to admirably. Sexual attraction to Benefactors and Activity Partners seems to have a higher chance of appearing in the form of a limerence (i.e. crush), which is something to watch out for in Benefactors, as they will generally find their Beneficiary uninteresting and even dull, as is about to be discussed below.

The other way this temperament relation manifests is mostly undesirable. In Beneficiary (viewed with you being the Benefactor) and Quasi-Identical Relations, there is a marked lack of interest in the other party. In Quasi-Identical Relations, this feeling is mutual. In Benefactor-Beneficiary, it isn't. The reason for this can be best explained by the fact that the Quasi-Identical's Vulnerable Function is the other Partner's Suggestive Function, and that the Benefactor's Suggestive Function is the Beneficiary's Vulnerable Function. This means that the information you actively seek out and thoroughly enjoy is missing in the other partner in these relationships. Therefore, this side of Quasi-Temperament Relations is seen is undesirable, insipid, and seemingly boring or stagnant.

Glad to see this thread was helpful enough to be stickied.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Accentuation and Its Relation to Temperament and Model A -

[Important: Realize that accentuation is a product of individual variance in types, they are not present in everyone, but they are present in some and explain why some individuals of a particular sociotype don't appear to act like other examples of the sociotype. You may or may not have an accentuation.]

A resource that might help to view: Gulenko on Accentuated Functions (Presents Accentuation in the Ego Block, but explains the concept; also introduces the idea that certain disorders can cause an accentuation of a function or element)

This post will focus mainly on accentuation in the Super-Id block, and how the painful attention to the Super-Id block in an accentuated state affects the Ego Block primarily. Specifically, we will be focusing on the Vulnerable Function, or the Phobia of a Sociotype.

Sociotype Example: SLI with an accentuation of Vulnerable or Phobic Fe.

Si - Te
Ni - Fe

For those of you that didn't view the resource, an accentuation is something that happens to an information element that is over-emphasized in a sociotype's model of information elements. This over-emphasis will generally be something that greatly effects the sociotype's day-to-day life and can be mild or severe. Causes of accentuation can range from actual disorders, to basic variety in people's personalities.

The SLI model above states beforehand that this SLI has an accentuation on the Phobic Vulnerable function of Fe. This means that this SLI is more hypersensitive to Fe information and processes than others of the same sociotype, and since the Phobia of the Vulnerable function generally leads to avoidance, this SLI will be much more cognizant of threats perceived to it through Fe information and requests of Fe from the environment. This SLI will be much more concerned of how people think of him, how he is affecting others around him (which could be interpreted various ways), and the emotional atmosphere of a situation. Unfortunately, the SLI still suffers from being somewhat terrible at the element, and thus will be much more avoidant of the element than others of his sociotype, due to the fact that he expects it more and is more hypersensitive to its presence. This accentuation will affect this specific SLI's daily life, in that he is constantly paying attention to any hint of Fe in a situation so that he can work around it; thus, he is distracted from his creative element, Te (the counter-perspective). As stated before in some of the posts above, successes of sociotypes are often achieved due to the disregarding of weaknesses (ex. The LSI can easily achieve logical order since the LSI isn't distracted by ethical dilemmas about his establishment of order Ti > Fi). In this situation, however, we find that this SLI is paying too much attention to his weakness, and thus detracts from his ability to succeed with Creative Te. This SLI may not want to take action and affect systems logically because he might think that doing so would provoke Fe in the environment he would have to deal with. Often, Te types easily succeed in affecting systems because they don't care how affecting the systems affects people and their emotional states, but this SLI is in a bind, for he is all too wary of his actions of affecting systems backfiring and causing him to have people criticizing for not realizing how he is affecting people or how he is acting against the values of extraverted ethics. Thus, this SLI will more likely choose not to take action, so that he will avoid the painful hits to the vulnerable function (the other Te Egos without accentuations will often not realize how their actions will cause the Phobic element to appear in the environment, and thus will do whatever). This SLI, thus, will downplay and shy away from the Opposing Temperament more, even with Extroverted Logicians, as taking action to the SLI represents having to deal with people's emotional states and their reactions, the phobia of the type.

Let's take a look at a perception example.

LSI - (Accentuation on Phobic/Vulnerable Ne)

Ti - Se
Fi - Ne

This LSI has an accentuation on Extraverted Intuition, and thus is hypersensitive to Ne information and its appearance (which will usually appear to the LSI as ambiguity, and utter chaos that can't be controlled or contained by physical means). This accentuation on the phobia of Ne will lead this specific LSI to avoid the possible presence of it at a much higher level of awareness than other LSIs. Unfortuantely, having too much focus on the consequences of having to deal with the Ne information, this LSI is much less inclined to engage in Creative Se, as using volitional force to establish order might lead to an incredible amount of uncertainties that are almost impossible to solve or predict - much less organize - something that even the normal LSI is hesitant to deal with. This LSI, then, will be much less physical and hands-on than other LSIs, as this LSI is terribly afraid of doing something to spark the insanity and chaos of conceptual ambiguity and raw potential of a situation to develop in thousands of different ways.
 

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Fi - I must help people find their place in the world. I take note of the qualities of all those around me, and compare them to others. I know which people are complementary to each other, and I know which people are hazardous to each other. Everyone has unique qualities, and even though it may seem they are out of place due to some eccentric quirk, I know that somewhere in this world is a community where they can be accepted and can adequately "fit-in". I am generally tolerant, yet I am still firm in my judgments of people's character either way. I am the one who knows what is right and what is wrong, and who is bad and who is good. People's qualities just make themselves known to me, and I am able to take those qualities and set them to a good purpose, or perhaps even take note of subdued qualities and help enhance them.
This sounds more like Delta Fi.
 

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  • Ni - The world around is mysterious and all-connected. Every action has an almost invisible, intangible effect to a situation that could turn the tides of an expected outcome. A butterfly flapping its wings in Brazil, displacing seemingly unimportant water molecules, can cause a monsoon in India without even being aware of the land's existence, nor a world outside of which it has personally traveled. I can focus in on the rhythms of things, the invisible mechanisms on which things operate, their tendencies. I can establish a baseline for how something acts, and envision how it will act in response to a certain stimulus that it, perhaps, has never interacted with before. I can place things in situations and be able to derive what will happen merely because I am able to easily perceive how things affect each other. People, too, have their rhythms as well. I can understand a person from their reactions to certain things, understanding how they think and how they feel based on how they act in situations they are either familiar with or are unfamiliar with. I see the grander scale. I see the world develop before me, and I orient myself passively to slide into the more favorable course in the streaming river of cascading events.
This applies well to IEI's Ni, but not to ILI's since you're describing here is a Vortical Synergetic version of it. Besides, seems clearly F biased as well. I think that you should mention that this applies to IEIs only.
 

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How would you describe Gamma Fi, then? I've been curious about it for a while, since my mother's an ESI, but I haven't really been able to grasp it fully.
In my case, it feels more immediate. Who to invest time in, who to stay away from, coming to conclusions about people as they are and in terms of the effect they or their words have on you or someone that you care about, etc. More fixated on negative traits, at times.
 

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In my case, it feels more immediate. Who to invest time in, who to stay away from, coming to conclusions about people as they are and in terms of the effect they or their words have on you or someone that you care about, etc. More fixated on negative traits, at times.
Alright, so it's sort of like a snap judgment about someone? That makes sense, thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
This sounds more like Delta Fi.
Blue Flare said:
This applies well to IEI's Ni, but not to ILI's since you're describing here is a Vortical Synergetic version of it. Besides, seems clearly F biased as well. I think that you should mention that this applies to IEIs only.
I do agree that the definitions placed there resemble these specifics more, but what the descriptions were mainly attempting to achieve is the perspective of the temperament geared toward a specific mindset (that isn't as abstracted as saying simply "invisible/deeper effects things have on each other" for Ni and "tangible/surface effects things have on each other" for Si).

The Fi description, while inherently geared more toward Delta Fi, still can reflect the mindset of Gamma Fi, in that Gamma Fi is more about putting people in there place socially, which is still organizing people, but not in the active, potential-achieving way Deltas do. Gamma Fi is much colder due to the recognition of surface traits as they appear and as they are in the current moment and subsequent categorizing. There isn't really potential for a person to change in the Gamma's view, and thus Gamma have an easier time organizing people according to their traits, due to the fact that they don't look for the potential of someone to adopt different traits in different circumstances.
 

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Accentuation and Its Relation to Temperament and Model A -

[Important: Realize that accentuation is a product of individual variance in types, they are not present in everyone, but they are present in some and explain why some individuals of a particular sociotype don't appear to act like other examples of the sociotype. You may or may not have an accentuation.]

A resource that might help to view: Gulenko on Accentuated Functions (Presents Accentuation in the Ego Block, but explains the concept; also introduces the idea that certain disorders can cause an accentuation of a function or element)

This post will focus mainly on accentuation in the Super-Id block, and how the painful attention to the Super-Id block in an accentuated state affects the Ego Block primarily. Specifically, we will be focusing on the Vulnerable Function, or the Phobia of a Sociotype.

Sociotype Example: SLI with an accentuation of Vulnerable or Phobic Fe.

Si - Te
Ni - Fe

For those of you that didn't view the resource, an accentuation is something that happens to an information element that is over-emphasized in a sociotype's model of information elements. This over-emphasis will generally be something that greatly effects the sociotype's day-to-day life and can be mild or severe. Causes of accentuation can range from actual disorders, to basic variety in people's personalities.

The SLI model above states beforehand that this SLI has an accentuation on the Phobic Vulnerable function of Fe. This means that this SLI is more hypersensitive to Fe information and processes than others of the same sociotype, and since the Phobia of the Vulnerable function generally leads to avoidance, this SLI will be much more cognizant of threats perceived to it through Fe information and requests of Fe from the environment. This SLI will be much more concerned of how people think of him, how he is affecting others around him (which could be interpreted various ways), and the emotional atmosphere of a situation. Unfortunately, the SLI still suffers from being somewhat terrible at the element, and thus will be much more avoidant of the element than others of his sociotype, due to the fact that he expects it more and is more hypersensitive to its presence. This accentuation will affect this specific SLI's daily life, in that he is constantly paying attention to any hint of Fe in a situation so that he can work around it; thus, he is distracted from his creative element, Te (the counter-perspective). As stated before in some of the posts above, successes of sociotypes are often achieved due to the disregarding of weaknesses (ex. The LSI can easily achieve logical order since the LSI isn't distracted by ethical dilemmas about his establishment of order Ti > Fi). In this situation, however, we find that this SLI is paying too much attention to his weakness, and thus detracts from his ability to succeed with Creative Te. This SLI may not want to take action and affect systems logically because he might think that doing so would provoke Fe in the environment he would have to deal with. Often, Te types easily succeed in affecting systems because they don't care how affecting the systems affects people and their emotional states, but this SLI is in a bind, for he is all too wary of his actions of affecting systems backfiring and causing him to have people criticizing for not realizing how he is affecting people or how he is acting against the values of extraverted ethics. Thus, this SLI will more likely choose not to take action, so that he will avoid the painful hits to the vulnerable function (the other Te Egos without accentuations will often not realize how their actions will cause the Phobic element to appear in the environment, and thus will do whatever). This SLI, thus, will downplay and shy away from the Opposing Temperament more, even with Extroverted Logicians, as taking action to the SLI represents having to deal with people's emotional states and their reactions, the phobia of the type.

Let's take a look at a perception example.

LSI - (Accentuation on Phobic/Vulnerable Ne)

Ti - Se
Fi - Ne

This LSI has an accentuation on Extraverted Intuition, and thus is hypersensitive to Ne information and its appearance (which will usually appear to the LSI as ambiguity, and utter chaos that can't be controlled or contained by physical means). This accentuation on the phobia of Ne will lead this specific LSI to avoid the possible presence of it at a much higher level of awareness than other LSIs. Unfortuantely, having too much focus on the consequences of having to deal with the Ne information, this LSI is much less inclined to engage in Creative Se, as using volitional force to establish order might lead to an incredible amount of uncertainties that are almost impossible to solve or predict - much less organize - something that even the normal LSI is hesitant to deal with. This LSI, then, will be much less physical and hands-on than other LSIs, as this LSI is terribly afraid of doing something to spark the insanity and chaos of conceptual ambiguity and raw potential of a situation to develop in thousands of different ways.
the whole thread is very interesting and helpful, specially this part on accentuation. could you please, make a post about what an accentuated LII would look like (one who is accentuating Se)?
 

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In my case, it feels more immediate. Who to invest time in, who to stay away from, coming to conclusions about people as they are and in terms of the effect they or their words have on you or someone that you care about, etc. More fixated on negative traits, at times.
This is relatable . I am not always aware of qualities and potential in others because that takes time and getting to know them. This is not exclusively Gamma Fi I don't think.
 

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What about:
Establishing Ethical Order (i.e. accordance to logical ethical principles)
In the chaos that is people's behavior
By ignoring illogical complaints
And avoiding the need to create personal connections.

That is a fairly good description of my fundamental drive, but trying to fit it to a set of mental functions is...problematic. Any ideas what's going on? It sounds like a base that's both Ej and Ij (Fi (?!) for the Ej, and some blend of F and T for the Ij), a creative that's Ep but uses F for its P (!?), a restrictive that throws out everything except for Ti, and a phobic that is again Fi, but of course that makes no sense.
 

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Si - The world around us resonates with energy. Objects affect each other and those observing them; they speak their nature to us. A painting, for instance, can resonate with a certain melancholy from its deep, blackened shades of blue, and create a feeling of wishful reflection upon its viewers. There is an experience to be captured from all things, something that activates a deeper feeling from its qualities, whether it be the crisp air in dark, forested pines, or the scorching hot sands on an equatorial beach. The world around us gives us impressions that convey a deeper experience. People affect each other as well. Some people simply annoy us, others cause us anxiety just by making their presence known, and still others even make our heartbeats elevate joyfully from the mere thought of them. Everything leaves something with every other thing, an impression upon the very soul of an object or person, that can stay with them forever.
I love how your definition of Si was much more Jung-based. Good job on the post btw, was overall decent compared to other socionics crap you find on the internet, 9/10.
 
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