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Discussion Starter #1
I'm sorry if I'm posting a rant against an ESFJ, particularly the same person.

I just feel it's so unfair that he is conniving with other S and F types against me, to the point that they make vague and shady jokes and comments that pertain to me.

Ive been avoiding this person eversince my first post about him, he got that to his senses already and I can certainly recognize his dilemma when we're exposed to each other at work. From time to time I can see that he still reaches out, but as an intj I see no point of restoring what he chose to let go for the sake of the crowd; so I'm unrelenting.

Why would he talk things about me to others while I've never talked shit nor mention his defiled being to anyone else out of hate.

Fook him sheet fooking pretentious bus tard.

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Why would he talk things about me to others while I've never talked shit nor mention his defiled being to anyone else out of hate.
I used to wonder this about people. It seems some people just socialize/bond very differently than others do. However, I can imagine someone being frustrated about something minor that you did (regardless of your intent), wanting to vent, and the venting going too far in the heat of the moment. It's hard to know what's going on with acquaintances.
 
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You mean my relation with this person? He's a co-worker with a convoluted history.

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Huh.

I don't know the story here, but you make it sound like you've written about it before?

If he's spreading shit behind your back, I'd confront him. Air everything out into the open.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Huh.

I don't know the story here, but you make it sound like you've written about it before?

If he's spreading shit behind your back, I'd confront him. Air everything out into the open.
It's been advised before, but I said he's deny it, since he's a liar.

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Discussion Starter #8
Hi @chelon. Long time no speak. I remember our conversation from before about "Mr ESFJ". Sorry to hear this is still an on going issue too.

Is this causing more issues in your work now too?
Hi, it's nice to hear from you again. Sublimely it does affect work because of relational barriers brought about by him and the others.

I really don't understand his ESFJ thing to "have no identity to stand on", that results to him being passive aggressive towards me in lieu of his inherent displeasure to my aloofness with him.

His abrasiveness is all but a facade, as an example:

Recently we had to coordinate at work, he had no proper endorsement, so initially I was okay with it coz I didn't want to have a lengthened conversation with him. Though I wasn't able to understand his handwriting, so with a tone of slight agitation I asked, "What's this word?", I was surprised when he rebutted with an abrasive sound, "Just wait I'm doing something". I had an impassive reaction, then he immediately approached me trying to tell me the word, which I selectively didn't pay attention to. I was still talking with the client trying to get my own assessment instead of clarifying things with him, when he suddenly placed his hand at the back of my shoulder trying to talk near my ear. I felt awkward of his action not only that he rested his hand instead of just nudging it, but due to the long history we had that should cause him not to do that. Well, I have to cite too that he asked me to help him with something of all people, sharing that he's nit feeling well blah blah blah....

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You two might as well be on different planets

My only suggestion is one that I know is almost impossible for INTJ
Can you try and mimmick some Fe

When I say this I don’t mean in every interaction to act like Fe user.
But in this case I don’t think simply calling anything out will do much good. That kind of approach is lost on many dom Fe users. They have this innate need to see vulnerability from others as a means to receive their message. I am not saying put your entire heart out there and open yourself up completely.

But in order for him to have anything register it will actually be having to level with him in a way he understands. Which isn’t going to be with Te.

I am suggesting you be the bigger person here. Should you have to make yourself vulnerable in order to co exist peacefully with a coworker who is respectful, No. you should not have to. But it’s the realty. At least if you want things to change. It actually means POLITELY using his dom function against him and doing something completely foreign to you. Which is open up (just enough and nothing more) and level with him.

Don’t attack him, do not challenge him. Do not correct him!!!!!!!!
I repeat: ^ “

How you get through to an ESFJ who is being a shit head is by using their Fe back on them. BUT with tact and no attack!
I.e. guilt the mother fucker.
That requires you tap into your Fi, assign vaguely what he is doing that upsets you.
Now when you talk with him use words like, I feel, this when ‘that’ happens (not when ‘YOU’ do such and such).
Seriously Fe’s wrote the fucken hand book on this sorta work place exercise crap spin the shit right fucken back!
Semantics is key here!

But you gotta be able to address at least vague feelings here
Play a martyr (Lol) haha I guess I am now demonstrating where clearly ESTPs can be effectively manipulative
But the shit fucken works

“I feel, such and such, and all I am trying to do, is contribute such and such, I know we all do not see eye to eye, I know I can be assertive and have a harsher delivery to some but my intentions are meant well”


(telling ya, this has been my success in managing many many FJs). They are VERY accepting and forgiving of others if they just get a hint of vulnerability from you is all it takes.

If you want this bullshit to stop (that you don’t deserve no but is a reality) and to go away, then flip that fucken script, and throw his book back at him, use his language against him skillfully and respectfully (instead of attacking it or challenging it). But it’s really going to require a HUGE compromise from you which is to get over yourself, make yourself vulnerable just a little bit.

Just to be clear here I can relate to ya. I can think of two distinct times I dealt with workplace conflict from ExFJ imposition. Dom Fe in the work place can be a bitch to cope with until a successful combative tool to keep harmony is realized.

Also I am not shocked that an ESFJ would be an INTJs krytonite. My mom is INTJ, and my lil bro is ESFJ, he is probably one of the only people who hits her hard and can provoke pain from her on a consistent basis. (Even my ENTP stepdad doesn’t come close to trolling our mom for a reaction as much as my ESFJ bro does). He is my moms youngest child and way younger than the rest so he is that kid who was coddled on top of the conflicting personalities. My mom totally enables him though unintentionally, because he knows how to shame her and challenge her ego (he thinks he is being funny because he is just about to turn 21 and is a total bro dude, punk). That is the key here you must realize is that they can sense your weakness which is your strength as well. Which is self preservation. And they will taunt it and mock it if they do not feel control. I.e. If I had to guess; you piss him off because you’re probably the alpha in this scenario (my mother is clearly to my bro), the only defense then to feel control for the Fe dom is to attack you personally (you should take some of it as a compliment because it means he is not even on your playing field work wise and he is threatened by you if he hasn’t taken an even shot work directed but instead is reverting to the social triumph). That is where I am saying until you make yourself human to him and do not snap back by putting this guy in check in ways he has no defense he will continue. Guaranteed!
 

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Discussion Starter #10
@Sensational Hi there, I appreciate the inputs and would really be helpful. I have to mention though that because I functioned as an SF before I was taken lightly by them. Thus, the reason why I had to revert back to my natural functions and show them what their dealing with.

And uh, just to give you an off the bat history, it's a semi-romantic past.

Thanks.

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@chelon

Recently we had to coordinate at work, he had no proper endorsement, so initially I was okay with it coz I didn't want to have a lengthened conversation with him. Though I wasn't able to understand his handwriting, so with a tone of slight agitation I asked, "What's this word?", I was surprised when he rebutted with an abrasive sound, "Just wait I'm doing something". I had an impassive reaction, then he immediately approached me trying to tell me the word, which I selectively didn't pay attention to. I was still talking with the client trying to get my own assessment instead of clarifying things with him, when he suddenly placed his hand at the back of my shoulder trying to talk near my ear. I felt awkward of his action not only that he rested his hand instead of just nudging it, but due to the long history we had that should cause him not to do that. Well, I have to cite too that he asked me to help him with something of all people, sharing that he's nit feeling well blah blah blah....
Ah ok. I can picture the situation and, while I generally don't mind someone being a bit 'touchy feely' around me, I would also have felt awkward in the same situation given the history.

Unfortunately it's looking like any advice I gave when we chatted last year hasn't really been sufficient though. I don't entirely agree with everything @Sensational has stated about ESFJs, BUT the advice has to be worth a go none the less?

What isn't correct regardless, and I know I've said this before, is you shouldn't have to keep feeling awkward in work because someone else is making it that way for you. It's unacceptable (putting it diplomatically)!
 

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Discussion Starter #12
@chelon



Ah ok. I can picture the situation and, while I generally don't mind someone being a bit 'touchy feely' around me, I would also have felt awkward in the same situation given the history.

Unfortunately it's looking like any advice I gave when we chatted last year hasn't really been sufficient though. I don't entirely agree with everything @Sensational has stated about ESFJs, BUT the advice has to be worth a go none the less?

What isn't correct regardless, and I know I've said this before, is you shouldn't have to keep feeling awkward in work because someone else is making it that way for you. It's unacceptable (putting it diplomatically)!
I really agree on not allowing others to make me feel bad. I do what I can to be apathetic about it. And I know, all the more it bothers him that I can go this long despite his actions.

I feel bad tho that I had to put the last nail on the coffin, coz I know I'll do well setting aside the likes of him, but I know him being an SF will damage his emotions.

I guess I play the role that one can't just bitch up anyone just because they can.

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I feel bad tho that I had to put the last nail on the coffin, coz I know I'll do well setting aside the likes of him, but I know him being an SF will damage his emotions.
Nobel, but in this instance it's more important how you feel. Do you think he still has these closeted feeling towards you which is why he continues to act like he does?

What do you think might happen if you use some Sensational's suggestions?

By the way. I think I've mentioned my INTJ friend to you before who also works in the medical profession. He called me for a rant a few weeks ago about some stuff in work in relation to work colleagues. It sounded like he may also be surrounded by SF gooeyness :tongue:
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Do you think he still has these closeted feeling towards you which is why he continues to act like he does?
Honestly, I think he still does. Because given the fact that he had to abandon what good we had started before, just to show others that he is not a social deviance; it would be utterly unreasonable to continue extending an effort towards me for any sort of reconciliation or closure.

What do you think might happen if you use some Sensational's suggestions?
But, what if he still does? How would you suggest a response to it, knowing that he committed himself to another relationship which he has to maintain currently?

By the way. I think I've mentioned my INTJ friend to you before who also works in the medical profession. He called me for a rant a few weeks ago about some stuff in work in relation to work colleagues. It sounded like he may also be surrounded by SF gooeyness :tongue:
Yes. You have mentioned him to me before. Lol. It could be he's surrounded by SF's that causes some rifts or just by some Ns or Ts with contrary preferred reality.
 

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Honestly, I think he still does. Because given the fact that he had to abandon what good we had started before, just to show others that he is not a social deviance; it would be utterly unreasonable to continue extending an effort towards me for any sort of reconciliation or closure.

But, what if he still does? How would you suggest a response to it, knowing that he committed himself to another relationship which he has to maintain currently?
Ah right. See the problem here then might be that you are still 'hoping' there could still be a chance. What Sensational has suggested could be the way to get him to stop 'bugging' you for good, but is there a bit of you (even if it's just a little bit) that doesn't want him to stop coming to you?

Unfortunately if he has committed himself to the other relationship, regardless of how he may actually feel, he can't have it both ways. It's as simple as that.

If it's ok to ask, what are other colleagues doing that makes you think he may be saying things behind you're back?


Yes. You have mentioned him to me before. Lol. It could be he's surrounded by SF's that causes some rifts or just by some Ns or Ts with contrary preferred reality.
I don't think its so much disputes/rifts as he just, unfortunately, finds it difficult to relate to them. Hes actually leaving this job soon anyway and has decided to move back here. I'm looking forward to him being back in all honesty. Just hope he manages to re-settle ok - I've already lined up a load of cycle routes for us to explore :tongue:
 

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Discussion Starter #16
There's really not much hope in me for it. It's more of a matter of, me seeing his pain and eagerness to be in good terms, that causes me to think I should give him a leeway to ease it. Tho knowing that it will be his access to initiate romanticism again, which will put me thru the cycle again.

I pity him. He put himself in this situation. Rightly so to point out that typical esfj doesnt have a good sense of consequential actions.

I do relate to your friend. Sometimes I just socialize with SF even tho the situation is so mundane - in my personal view, not saying they are, just for me not to be left out or cause a misunderstanding with them.

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Discussion Starter #17
Whew. I just read my old post. I feel stupid posting about him again. Same old same old. lol

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There's really not much hope in me for it. It's more of a matter of, me seeing his pain and eagerness to be in good terms, that causes me to think I should give him a leeway to ease it. Tho knowing that it will be his access to initiate romanticism again, which will put me thru the cycle again.

I pity him. He put himself in this situation. Rightly so to point out that typical esfj doesnt have a good sense of consequential actions.
I think you can probably be 'neutral' with him. Maybe there is an element of him getting wound up to an extent because you're not on good terms (not your fault I know). I also wonder if maybe it is like what @Nicomendes MacIdriss said - is he venting to other colleagues because he is upset/annoyed/wound-up without meaning for it to become such a big deal...but then those colleagues are then acting like it is and acting like they are taking his side?

I do relate to your friend. Sometimes I just socialize with SF even tho the situation is so mundane - in my personal view, not saying they are, just for me not to be left out or cause a misunderstanding with them.
That is pretty much identical situation to my friend what you've described.


Whew. I just read my old post. I feel stupid posting about him again. Same old same old. lol
Never feel bad for having a bit of a blow out / rant on the ESFJ part of the forum. That's partly why we're here - to be that metaphorical shoulder to cry on blah blah :p
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Thank you so much, you and the others for enlightening my heart.

I'm sorry for those SFs that were dismissed by NTs like me. It's just that, the issue here is a matter of character. It's not just an action or behavior, but a mode of living and perspective in life.

Until the next fuss - hopefully no more.

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Edit: just a last thought, he actually talked to me earlier asking about a coworker. I was surprised, but felt obligated to reply coz he asked my while there were others around. Oh well, he didn't have to talk to me, but I guess he just wanted attention.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I didn't expect that I'll be posting here again. I think he's trying to get to me thru common friends. Initially, he befriended them then he enrolled at the same class where I'm at with our common friends. He's now part of our study group.

I think these common friends know something and maybe scheming on me.

Is it all coincidental? If not, why is he doing that despite all the self shame and rejection he put me thru? Is he just feeling lonely coz he's in a long distance relationship with his gf? Why would he even attempt to befriend me knowing how much hate I have for him?

A sane person would not do this right? He should avoid me and anything that would cross our paths. I really don't get why he acts the opposite.

Sorry to sound nonsensical.

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