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Discussion Starter #41
Well, I thought I'd give an update just for me to help relinquish it off my mind.

Recently we're becoming friendlier to each other, it is still an effort to just be platonic, despite my sensing of moods of romanticism towards the both of us. There was this day were he was the only friend I can speak to, and so I started a small talk about some lessons we're taking up. The topic was about special remembrances. After some time talking, I asked him to give an example. My intuition was already preparing for his answer if ever he mentions his girl. To my surprise he did, all I can do was smile pretending to listen attentively to his answer, but deep inside it was getting more and more awkward for me. We wrapped it up and complimented him of his answers. He became a bit conscious giving me a shy look. I as a typical intj, gave a non emotional smile and tried my best to continue with non sensical remarks to avoid aggravating my heavy heart.

I wondered though, given our unpleasant history; why would he bring up such an answer? Was he already confident that, since I accepted his friendly gesture I have already forgone the past? Is it also because I'm just completely being too friendly again with him? Or is it because he was testing me, if how I would respond to such an unpleasant topic for us both?

Oh well, I just wanted to set my mind off a cycle since it's causing me anxiety at times.

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Hello @chelon

I know when I've responded I've generally been more 'optimistic' perhaps compared to the responses from your fellow INTJs (and the xSTx's). I don't know if that's an ESFJ thing, or just me personally...

The more I hear of this guy and your encounters with him, the more I think he does at least hold you dear in some way or another. Whether that is just as a good friend or more, I have no idea, but there is definitely something.

I wondered though, given our unpleasant history; why would he bring up such an answer? Was he already confident that, since I accepted his friendly gesture I have already forgone the past
It might be nothing...or it might be him 'testing the water' to see if he can talk about her with you without it causing issue. I doubt he will have done it out of snideness. If he is becoming more serious with his relationship with her AND wants to stay good friends with you (which I think he does), then he'll no doubt be trying to see if it can 'work'. Out of interest, have you ever met her?

The pessimistic flip side of the coin is, he is still clueless about what he wants, and does still have deeper feelings for you.

Have things been any better in work?
 

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Discussion Starter #43
Hello @chelon

I know when I've responded I've generally been more 'optimistic' perhaps compared to the responses from your fellow INTJs (and the xSTx's). I don't know if that's an ESFJ thing, or just me personally...

The more I hear of this guy and your encounters with him, the more I think he does at least hold you dear in some way or another. Whether that is just as a good friend or more, I have no idea, but there is definitely something.



It might be nothing...or it might be him 'testing the water' to see if he can talk about her with you without it causing issue. I doubt he will have done it out of snideness. If he is becoming more serious with his relationship with her AND wants to stay good friends with you (which I think he does), then he'll no doubt be trying to see if it can 'work'. Out of interest, have you ever met her?

The pessimistic flip side of the coin is, he is still clueless about what he wants, and does still have deeper feelings for you.

Have things been any better in work?
No. I haven't met her. He hides his phone screen from me or blackens the screen. I don't know if it was his girl or someone else he's chatting.

I don't understand why he wants to keep me as a friend or why would he hold me as someone dear to him.

I've set the atmosphere that I'm open to have conversations about his girl because I've noticed that he tries to hide her from me.

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Discussion Starter #44
Work's alot better. He openly talks to me infront of our coworkers even with a soft voice, unlike how he talks to others. But I don't want to delve into it further than what he's willing to reveal. Coz in my experience he can still drop me like a hot potato.

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I don't understand why he wants to keep me as a friend or why would he hold me as someone dear to him.
Can I be really annoying and flip your question round and ask why WOULDN'T he want to be friends with you?

No. I haven't met her. He hides his phone screen from me or blackens the screen. I don't know if it was his girl or someone else he's chatting.
Ok, I admit that is odd... there is privacy and then there is that. I don't really know what to make of that.

I've set the atmosphere that I'm open to have conversations about his girl because I've noticed that he tries to hide her from me.
He musts till feel awkward talking about it, for whatever reason. I certainly not saying that's caused by you - must just be something with him. I do find it odd that he has kept her so secretive though.

Work's alot better. He openly talks to me infront of our coworkers even with a soft voice, unlike how he talks to others. But I don't want to delve into it further than what he's willing to reveal. Coz in my experience he can still drop me like a hot potato.
Glad work is better. I can appreciate why you're keeping a guard up though.
 

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Discussion Starter #46
I don't want him to get too close with me because I know his ulterior motive.

I can always put a double standard to compromise with him, but due to the circumstances of our history I am stubbornly unwilling.

I feel it's such a disgrace to my worth as a person, who has all good intentions to be in an intimate relationship, while he would just use me as a cheating tool to satisfy his senses and curiosity.

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I don't want him to get too close with me because I know his ulterior motive.

I can always put a double standard to compromise with him, but due to the circumstances of our history I am stubbornly unwilling.

I feel it's such a disgrace to my worth as a person, who has all good intentions to be in an intimate relationship, while he would just use me as a cheating tool to satisfy his senses and curiosity.
Do you genuinely believe there is an ulterior motive though i.e. do you think he is just wanting to use you to fulfill this curiosity in his sexuality?

To me, if that were the case, not only would he be hurting you, but he would be creating an extremely awkward situation in work and neither of these sound particularly ESFJ-ish (at least not to me).

It's clear that he likes you as a person in one way or another. Is there any chance, in your mind, he could just be trying to salvage the friendship he thinks he has with you and is just, unintentionally, making things awkward?
 

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Discussion Starter #50
Do you genuinely believe there is an ulterior motive though i.e. do you think he is just wanting to use you to fulfill this curiosity in his sexuality?
Yes, because I have known him for more than 2 years. I see how he interacts to everybody.

To me, if that were the case, not only would he be hurting you, but he would be creating an extremely awkward situation in work and neither of these sound particularly ESFJ-ish (at least not to me).
He doesn't play the stereotyped ESFJ in real life though. He did already create that awkward situation with me a few years back, pertaining to my original post about him.

It's clear that he likes you as a person in one way or another. Is there any chance, in your mind, he could just be trying to salvage the friendship he thinks he has with you and is just, unintentionally, making things awkward?
I really do appreciate that from him, I just don't want to be part of his struggle and be used as a dummy for him to decide which life he would choose to take.

I am sorry, I am dragging the topic with you. I don't mean to put you in a difficult situation.

I have seen how he expresses his love for his girl on their social media accounts. I just cant let him further on with this, I feel pity for his girl that I allow him to express his suppressed sexuality with me, or the other people he flirts with.
 

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I am sorry to say this in front of all esfj here.
@chelon Fe dom user really has the uppercut in disarming inf/tert Fi users. That is their natural flair, practiced, tried and true for their whole lifetime. Shall for whatever reason you ever cross their line you will not be spared.

It is exfj ultimate strength. A man can only admire.
 

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Discussion Starter #52
I am sorry to say this in front of all esfj here.
@chelon Fe dom user really has the uppercut in disarming inf/tert Fi users. That is their natural flair, practiced, tried and true for their whole lifetime. Shall for whatever reason you ever cross their line you will not be spared.

It is exfj ultimate strength. A man can only admire.
He's the one who keeps intertwining our paths.

Urggh.

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Yes, because I have known him for more than 2 years. I see how he interacts to everybody.


He doesn't play the stereotyped ESFJ in real life though. He did already create that awkward situation with me a few years back, pertaining to my original post about him.


I really do appreciate that from him, I just don't want to be part of his struggle and be used as a dummy for him to decide which life he would choose to take.

I am sorry, I am dragging the topic with you. I don't mean to put you in a difficult situation.

I have seen how he expresses his love for his girl on their social media accounts. I just cant let him further on with this, I feel pity for his girl that I allow him to express his suppressed sexuality with me, or the other people he flirts with.
Fair enough and please don't apologise - I appreciate I don't know this guy the way you do and I am guilty of hoping the best in situations involving people's friendships. Sadly this isn't always logical (even my ISFJ friend tells me off for this haha).

Flipping the coin, I think you need a brake from this guy - mentally. I know you can't avoid him physically because of work, but outside work, I think meeting someone new could help?
 

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Discussion Starter #56
Fair enough and please don't apologise - I appreciate I don't know this guy the way you do and I am guilty of hoping the best in situations involving people's friendships. Sadly this isn't always logical (even my ISFJ friend tells me off for this haha).

Flipping the coin, I think you need a brake from this guy - mentally. I know you can't avoid him physically because of work, but outside work, I think meeting someone new could help?
That's what I'm trying to do to divert my mind.

Thanks.

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Discussion Starter #57
I thought I'd give an update about this thread. I don't know, I kinda think it would be better having details with this story.

We went as a group to an out of town trip, well I didn't really expect much from him on this trip considering how he was before and how he is with me in a crowd.

I'm very happy though that as a friend, he is very dependable. For the whole duration of it he shared his toiletries with me, coz I didn't bring any.

He still acted detached sometimes, perhaps his way of dismissing issues that might arise if we get too clingy. In relation to that, our hesitation didn't give us a chance to share a bed. Instead, our superior was the one who took the space with him. It's ironic that one fellow gave a feedback that he was expecting that he and I would share a bed, weird but maybe they were thinking our relationship was like that.

I got paranoid tho coz we were drinking before sleeping and I didn't want that restraint would be affected by it. I kept awake for a couple of hours just to observe. I was put off somehow that everytime he changes position he would make a sound like a gentle moan of relief. It kinda gave an impression of an innuendo to whomever it was supposed to, either to the gay superior he shares the bed with or just wanting to call someone's attention in the room. He did keep his space tho and his body position wasn't inviting.

Generally he was okay, maybe it help that I didn't expect from him and that I didn't allow him to somehow spur me in acting first by him overtly making a pass on me.

We went home together after that event, he asked me to ride a taxi with him. We had some small talks, it was obvious that our body language was trying hard to make things not awkward.

I was surprised when he remarked, you are still fresh no one has touched you ye, he meant a virgin. I know he lost his to his current girl. What makes it awkward is that I always put out green jokes and people always think I'm a fuckboy because of that and the way I project an aura. But I'm not, and I abhor casual sex. I didn't know what made him say that, but it caught me offguard I wasn't able to rebutt it. I just crumpled the receipt in my hand and threw it at his head. He just smiled, avoiding to look at me.

I got off the taxi, I said a gentle goodbye and take care. He abruptly replied with a kinda grunting sound saying t'care. How passive was that. Haha.

I'll be leaving my employer for good for I'll be relocating soon. He knows it and usually asks me when. I always give a vague, I'm not yet sure. It's because I don't want him to make a ultimate move to win me back hoping I'll stay or whatever purpose would suit him.
He has expressed none interest to follow where I'm going so I'll leave it to that.

He's taking a test as well and I initiated messaging him to encourage and make him feel that I care. I guess by how he replies, he is preoccupied with someone else. He even just seen my last message. Even though it's been hours since he finished his exams. He's still online and seem uninterested chatting with me.

Anyway, when he comes back from his leave for the exams I'll be slowly detaching my association from him. I guess it would make things easier and avoid separation anxiety - for me atleast.

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