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  • Te is concerned with speaking "on behalf of its entourage", as Jung put it - putting things in their place for the sake of everyone then knowing where it is. Clarifications are valued for the forward momentum they provide. If you fall astray from this, then you're out-of-step, and become a liability - learn to catch up. Its circumstantial logic. It's accessible and linear.
  • Ti feels like a barometer for a kind of internal "consistency" - it helps you determine the "inner" logic of something, and whether it stands up against itself, and how it might differ from something else. It's pried away from the object, and helps to differentiate (and is encapsulated within) the subject. To be out-of-step is, in some way, the point - it's internalized logic, belaboured and holistic.
Is this fair?
Brilliant! Love this <3
 

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this is Te:

Is that a statement or a question? He doesn't seem all that calm. Could it be Fi, an expression of inner disturbance as opposed to doing something with the external world? I'd have to meet him for an interview ... I think. Anyone with an alternate opinion? Any comments on his tie? I used to have one something like it.
 

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Ok, i Guess you read my mbti as enfj and which might make u think he can't understand it right.

Then again If I make another id with ENTJ mbti or any thinking type mbti. You might say he has got a point even if I repeat the same thing.
No, you would still not have a point, but my frame of reference where I try to communicate with you would change.

An ENFJ giving me advice on how Ti works is like me giving an ENFP on how Fi works.

An ENTJ at least gets half the equation, or should, so my conversation would be different.

Further, an ENFJ talking like you did is a bit weird. They are normally very pleasant people who are very slow to cause conflict and angst, and are more likely to use questions than to tell someone how life is in a relatively contradictory form.
 

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, certainly not any worse than @drmiller's who supposedly has strong Te.

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You make a very valid point. My Te is probably not as good as I think it is. The way I look at it, Most XTxP are obviously pretty good at Ti. I think XTxP may think they are better at Te than we really are. And I bet xTxJ likewise believes they understand Ti.

So when I describe Te, it is obviously skewed.
 

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Te wants to get stuff done, quickly, skipping bullshit, it only needs what is indespensible thens shoots, there's like a mad drive to obtain it. It is violent.
Ti wants to understand and combine all this information and ballance it, carefully being sure every piece fits into the whole scheme, the result is less appealing than this previous process.
I don't understand how it is so confusing.
 

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Te wants to get stuff done, quickly, skipping bullshit, it only needs what is indespensible thens shoots, there's like a mad drive to obtain it. It is violent.
Ti wants to understand and combine all this information and ballance it, carefully being sure every piece fits into the whole scheme, the result is less appealing than this previous process.
I don't understand how it is so confusing.
It's just that some people are just looking for a "theory". Weird, since it already exists! I agree very much that it's simple.
 

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Te wants to get stuff done, quickly, skipping bullshit, it only needs what is indespensible thens shoots, there's like a mad drive to obtain it. It is violent.
Ti wants to understand and combine all this information and ballance it, carefully being sure every piece fits into the whole scheme, the result is less appealing than this previous process.
I don't understand how it is so confusing.
Smiles........ mean with humor, sort of.....

I agree with your descriptions, and the Feeling Judgement of your opinion (Fi) on it is an added bonus.
 

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Te wants to get stuff done, quickly, skipping bullshit, it only needs what is indespensible thens shoots, there's like a mad drive to obtain it. It is violent.
Ti wants to understand and combine all this information and ballance it, carefully being sure every piece fits into the whole scheme, the result is less appealing than this previous process.
Under time pressure, we need to get stuff done quickly and must "Te". When we're not under time pressure and have time to reflect, we're free to "Ti". My question is, when you take the time factor into consideration, wouldn't this description fall apart?
 

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Reply drmillers: Infp's or enfp's are always pleasent ENFJ can be both pleasant and rude depending on circumstances, but most importantly we are still likeable. Since we won't cross the line to prove our point. But, I think an Enfj is always firm with his stand esp with developed Ni.

Personally I can debate long without feeling bad and even making the other person at ease without agreeing to his point. As far as this thread is concerned I have been polite, not rude.

Anyways I didn't advised you. I just stated what I think Te and Ti is, but you said no to that. Without a sufficient explanation?
 

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Under time pressure, we need to get stuff done quickly and must "Te". When we're not under time pressure and have time to reflect, we're free to "Ti". My question is, when you take the time factor into consideration, wouldn't this description fall apart?
It's obvious so it is besides the point.
Ti users also need to get shit done but they wouldn't be as mad or feel that drive that appeals them in the same way as masturbating to the process of doing it.
Let's considerate my friend and me. We are both capable of recording music and making it sound good.
So when i record i just feel like i need to know how my song is going to sound from the very begining.
When he records, he makes this ritual for it, then rituals for mixing and then rituals for mastering until he has the piece.
Both of us spend a certain time on it. The key difference is that he enjoys understanding every aspect on how each plugin will affect the overall sound of the recording. How every plugin work, it has to make sense.
While i do myself more this question: what do i need to make this shit sound good? then my brain goes: add this, then put this, blabla, and so on and i have this result that is ok, somehow i was using more my capability of ear and my vision of what i wanted it to sound like, then pure guts. Then i feel awesome.
While he masturbates to the process, i masturbate to the result, or just to make it easier but effective.
So sure my friend also likes to be effective but if he has choice i'm sure he would like to have a more consistent process of elaboration.

In my last job i remember my boss telling me all this bblablabla and i was like please go to the point, what do you want? ok i will do it. Me by myself i'll compilate the resources for making it possible. I don't care about what does it means. To me she was speaking japanese so i couldn't care less. At some point i understood mount fuji. So i paid the ticket, jump on the plane, hitch a ride and so on. I don't care, i'm unstopable, el king de la selva.
A Ti user would be more like, damn japan, what do i know about this country? how much money i have? will it affect my premarital relationship? wouldn't it be necessary to look at this and understand the principles behind samurai sword craftery? and what about the comercial relationships they held with holland?, why holland?, why my boss is speaking japanese? is it what i want in my life? (shadow Fi finally showing up) and so on. Go read intp forum for a while. Damn Ne + Ti. It's crazy.
I didn't have to go to japan. It's a way of explaning it. BTW.

It feels that Te has a competitive vibe that Ti doesn't show or at least is less common. It feels imma prove you how better than u i am, no matter what i have to do for stomping ur face to the ground and ask for mercy. That's why it seems Te is more confident than Ti in persuading a goal, but perhaps less precise. Needs more lucky strikes.

When i'm reading some paper i always feel like i have to skip all bullshit in it and find the key parts of it so i grasp their meaning quickly maybe overlooking at facts that could twist a bit my comprehension of the text. But the thing is that i'm not caring about understanding. I'm caring about what needs to be done.
I think Ti would try to analize the paper in a more paused contemplative way, cuz it has to be consistent to their self. I have to be consistent with what i need to read the paper for. I piss on the paper itself.
 

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So... if I get the gist of what you're saying, Ti is more concerned with "how things work" and is process-oriented, whereas Te is more concerned with being "effective" and is result-oriented. According to this, the Te way is faster (because it is more focused on results rather than process) and the Ti way is more comprehensive and systemic, but slower (because it takes time analyse and do things according to a certain internal process). And that an individual is either more inclined towards one or the other (Te or Ti).

In your example of music recording, it sounds like you already had a certain end goal in mind and simply wanted to get there and do things based on "gut", whereas your friend is more meticulous, more in the habit of doing things a certain way ("ritual"). He probably also possesses a greater theoretical understanding, as he seemed to show an appreciation of how each of the elements (plugins) work together to produce a superior sound.

I wouldn't necessarily relate all of these to Te and Ti per se, partly because much of what you've associated with Te (competitive vibes, mad drive and violence, impatience and wanting to skip the process to quickly achieve the end goal, etc), I relate more to Se. And that what you interpret as your friend Ti-ing, is probably a manifestation of his existing superior technical knowledge. He could also have been viewed as a goal-oriented Te-valuer who feels that the most effective way of achieving his goal, is to do exactly what he has done (via a routine of fastidiousness)

MeTheParrot said:
When i'm reading some paper i always feel like i have to skip all bullshit in it and find the key parts of it so i grasp their meaning quickly maybe overlooking at facts that could twist a bit my comprehension of the text. But the thing is that i'm not caring about understanding. I'm caring about what needs to be done.
Isn't "what needs to be done" understanding the gist of the news story? I would think that all newspaper readers would have done exactly as you have (skimmed the news story to quickly get new information out of it). Unless of course, it is a story with more meat, and you have a deeper interest in the issues involved and would like to understand it better. In which case, this "Te" person would then be forced to "Ti".

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that you're putting a little too much emphasis on Ti as "understanding" and Te as "getting things done".

And again, I would like to bring this back to the time factor. It's an either-or scenario when one is pressed for time - a Ti-valuer would be forced to be result-oriented (which you seem to associate with Te), even if they may want to gain a deeper understanding of all the facts and how they fit into a system. Whereas a job that would require one to do much analysis, would force a Te-valuer to analyse and chew on every relevant facet of the system. Over time, that might even influence the Te-valuer to believe that he is a Ti-valuer as he becomes more proficient at what he does (hence falling into a routine of fastidiousness).

Hence, attempting to type a person according to the behavioral manner in which you have associated with Te and Ti would not at all be an effective way of determining their predominant cognitive style.
 

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So... if I get the gist of what you're saying, Ti is more concerned with "how things work" and is process-oriented, whereas Te is more concerned with being "effective" and is result-oriented. According to this, the Te way is faster (because it is more focused on results rather than process) and the Ti way is more comprehensive and systemic, but slower (because it takes time analyse and do things according to a certain internal process). And that an individual is either more inclined towards one or the other (Te or Ti).

In your example of music recording, it sounds like you already had a certain end goal in mind and simply wanted to get there and do things based on "gut", whereas your friend is more meticulous, more in the habit of doing things a certain way ("ritual"). He probably also possesses a greater theoretical understanding, as he seemed to show an appreciation of how each of the elements (plugins) work together to produce a superior sound.

I wouldn't necessarily relate all of these to Te and Ti per se, partly because much of what you've associated with Te (competitive vibes, mad drive and violence, impatience and wanting to skip the process to quickly achieve the end goal, etc), I relate more to Se. And that what you interpret as your friend Ti-ing, is probably a manifestation of his existing superior technical knowledge. He could also have been viewed as a goal-oriented Te-valuer who feels that the most effective way of achieving his goal, is to do exactly what he has done (via a routine of fastidiousness)


Isn't "what needs to be done" understanding the gist of the news story? I would think that all newspaper readers would have done exactly as you have (skimmed the news story to quickly get new information out of it). Unless of course, it is a story with more meat, and you have a deeper interest in the issues involved and would like to understand it better. In which case, this "Te" person would then be forced to "Ti".

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that you're putting a little too much emphasis on Ti as "understanding" and Te as "getting things done".

And again, I would like to bring this back to the time factor. It's an either-or scenario when one is pressed for time - a Ti-valuer would be forced to be result-oriented (which you seem to associate with Te), even if they may want to gain a deeper understanding of all the facts and how they fit into a system. Whereas a job that would require one to do much analysis, would force a Te-valuer to analyse and chew on every relevant facet of the system. Over time, that might even influence the Te-valuer to believe that he is a Ti-valuer as he becomes more proficient at what he does (hence falling into a routine of fastidiousness).

Hence, attempting to type a person according to the behavioral manner in which you have associated with Te and Ti would not at all be an effective way of determining their predominant cognitive style.
Interesting categories. If Te is about getting things done and Ti about understanding, let's look at those ideas more closely. It depend on what is wished done. If one is looking at doing something in the outside world, then thinking about that will get specific things, notably Se things, done. If one is interested in finding rules that get everything done, then thinking more broadly will do the better job. Because "everything" contains more than "something", chances are it will take longer.

Lighting a fire people could think about doing; inventing the match took longer.
 

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Interesting categories. If Te is about getting things done and Ti about understanding, let's look at those ideas more closely. It depend on what is wished done. If one is looking at doing something in the outside world, then thinking about that will get specific things, notably Se things, done. If one is interested in finding rules that get everything done, then thinking more broadly will do the better job. Because "everything" contains more than "something", chances are it will take longer.

Lighting a fire people could think about doing; inventing the match took longer.
Yeah, so it would seem as if this "Te" has a nearer-term focus in the pursuit of goals whereas "Ti" has a longer, more strategic one. Which though I suppose can seem that way at times, doesn't really jive.

Unfortunately, my knowledge of the functions isn't solid, so I do not have any solution to propagate. I'm only pointing out some discrepancies between the theories expressed here with my existing understanding of the cognitive functions and how I've experienced it.

Whether right or wrong, I identify with ENTJ in MBTI largely because that is the personality type that my career life has been moulding me into throughout the years. There has been a strong focus on "getting things done" and "meeting deadlines" which has shaped me to be very much a Te-dom behaviorally.

But my socionics typing, which I base on my underlying, permanent cognitive functioning has been far more tricky to determine. But it is also one which I believe should be the focus in a discussion on cognitive functions, because it attempts to pin down the cause (cognitive differences) rather than the effect (external behaviour). It's more subtle and therefore harder to determine, but ultimately has greater predictive value - which to me, is the whole point.
 

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Interesting categories. If Te is about getting things done and Ti about understanding, let's look at those ideas more closely. It depend on what is wished done. If one is looking at doing something in the outside world, then thinking about that will get specific things, notably Se things, done. If one is interested in finding rules that get everything done, then thinking more broadly will do the better job. Because "everything" contains more than "something", chances are it will take longer.
Lighting a fire people could think about doing; inventing the match took longer.

Ti is about over-arching rules- principles if you will, the "law" of things, what makes things work, and it is fascinated by the why. In Socionics, many Se dominant types such as SEE will type as thinkers in mbti, because yes, Se is about influencing and getting things done in their way - in that system. And maybe mbti as well. Honestly the two systems should just collaborate but hey, whatever, they're not my systems.


Yeah, so it would seem as if this "Te" has a nearer-term focus in the pursuit of goals whereas "Ti" has a longer, more strategic one. Which though I suppose can seem that way at times, doesn't really jive.

Unfortunately, my knowledge of the functions isn't solid, so I do not have any solution to propagate. I'm only pointing out some discrepancies between the theories expressed here with my existing understanding of the cognitive functions and how I've experienced it.

Whether right or wrong, I identify with ENTJ in MBTI largely because that is the personality type that my career life has been moulding me into throughout the years. There has been a strong focus on "getting things done" and "meeting deadlines" which has shaped me to be very much a Te-dom behaviorally.

But my socionics typing, which I base on my underlying, permanent cognitive functioning has been far more tricky to determine. But it is also one which I believe should be the focus in a discussion on cognitive functions, because it attempts to pin down the cause (cognitive differences) rather than the effect (external behaviour). It's more subtle and therefore harder to determine, but ultimately has greater predictive value - which to me, is the whole point.
I would go based on under-lying methods as being more accurate for typing. There are many different factors in every persons life that could make them think they are something they are not. I will say it is fairly difficult to know completely either way. I wouldn't say Ti has a longer term goal in mind. It just cares about the why(s) more than Te, and so like I said, is more about over-arching principles that can relate to each other. Te is more about this is what this does and these are the things I could use it for. No time frame involved, although it would probably look to make use of its new information as soon as it can, or when it deems it would be appropriate.
 

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Cmart said:
I would go based on under-lying methods as being more accurate for typing.
Yeah, and that's the difficult bit. Coming up with a reliable methodology for determining what these underlying cognitive functions are. Unfortunately we could only go about determining what these are based on behavioral observations, which unfortunately does not have a strong correlation with the underlying cognitive function. Plus we can't go about assigning motivations to the cognitive types either, which are more accurately depicted via enneagram. Thus complicating the process of determining one's cognitive functions.

Ti is about over-arching rules- principles if you will, the "law" of things, what makes things work, and it is fascinated by the why. In Socionics, many Se dominant types such as SEE will type as thinkers in mbti, because yes, Se is about influencing and getting things done in their way - in that system. And maybe mbti as well. Honestly the two systems should just collaborate but hey, whatever, they're not my systems.
I agree with Ti being associated with rules, principles and "laws" of things, but I've yet to notice socionics SEEs being prone to identifying themselves as mbti thinkers though.

Cmart said:
I wouldn't say Ti has a longer term goal in mind. It just cares about the why(s) more than Te, and so like I said, is more about over-arching principles that can relate to each other. Te is more about this is what this does and these are the things I could use it for. No time frame involved, although it would probably look to make use of its new information as soon as it can, or when it deems it would be appropriate.
Right, I was merely fleshing out the earlier idea to its consequences and pointing out what I perceive as its contradictions.
 

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Interesting categories. If Te is about getting things done and Ti about understanding, let's look at those ideas more closely. It depend on what is wished done. If one is looking at doing something in the outside world, then thinking about that will get specific things, notably Se things, done. If one is interested in finding rules that get everything done, then thinking more broadly will do the better job. Because "everything" contains more than "something", chances are it will take longer.

Lighting a fire people could think about doing; inventing the match took longer.
Hmm, the first bolded line seemed fine until the second line came. Are you defining Te and Ti or Te types that use Se vs Ti types?

I think a better way to put it down is T in general focuses on the impersonal logic on an issue. Te can be aware of the underlying principles behind said issue, but is more focused on it's result. Ti on the other knows the result but is more intrigued by the underlying process which brought said result to manifest.

If we see problems as cause->effect, then

Ti: cause->effect
Te: cause->effect

SIDENOTE: In problems where values/human content come into play:

Fi: cause->effect
Fe: cause->effect

I've been dying to say that Ti and Fi are very similar. Where Ti is doubting and examining of the underlying logical processes, Fi is doubting and examining of the values of others. Where Ti seeks in-depth T based logical understanding, Fi seeks in-depth F based emotional understanding.
 

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You make a very valid point. My Te is probably not as good as I think it is. The way I look at it, Most XTxP are obviously pretty good at Ti. I think XTxP may think they are better at Te than we really are. And I bet xTxJ likewise believes they understand Ti.

So when I describe Te, it is obviously skewed.
That was not my point at all.

I understand if it sounded like a hint, it was not meant to be that sort of hint.

My point was that it was hardly type related in terms of @Richdad making valid statements or not.
 

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If we see problems as cause->effect, then

Ti: cause->effect
Te: cause->effect

SIDENOTE: In problems where values/human content come into play:

Fi: cause->effect
Fe: cause->effect

I've been dying to say that Ti and Fi are very similar. Where Ti is doubting and examining of the underlying logical processes, Fi is doubting and examining of the values of others. Where Ti seeks in-depth T based logical understanding, Fi seeks in-depth F based emotional understanding.
Nicely put. Beautiful! That's the first time I've seen this idea said this way. Cause and effect are processes. Whether it's thinking or feeling, we can take an interest take an interest in one or the other. Not everyone is interested in both equally and who is? This leads me to the next thought.
 

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Te wants to get stuff done, quickly, skipping bullshit, it only needs what is indespensible thens shoots, there's like a mad drive to obtain it. It is violent.
Ti wants to understand and combine all this information and ballance it, carefully being sure every piece fits into the whole scheme, the result is less appealing than this previous process.
I don't understand how it is so confusing.
It may be confusing to people because strong T preference will display both sides of the coin, the introverted and the extraverted attitude. Only one of them are preferred consciously though. For that, your description is fine.


Let's considerate my friend and me. We are both capable of recording music and making it sound good.
So when i record i just feel like i need to know how my song is going to sound from the very begining.
When he records, he makes this ritual for it, then rituals for mixing and then rituals for mastering until he has the piece.
Both of us spend a certain time on it. The key difference is that he enjoys understanding every aspect on how each plugin will affect the overall sound of the recording. How every plugin work, it has to make sense.
I don't see why you call Ti "rituals", elaborate on what you mean?


While i do myself more this question: what do i need to make this shit sound good? then my brain goes: add this, then put this, blabla, and so on and i have this result that is ok, somehow i was using more my capability of ear and my vision of what i wanted it to sound like, then pure guts. Then i feel awesome.
While he masturbates to the process, i masturbate to the result, or just to make it easier but effective.
So sure my friend also likes to be effective but if he has choice i'm sure he would like to have a more consistent process of elaboration.
This is a good point.


In my last job i remember my boss telling me all this bblablabla and i was like please go to the point, what do you want? ok i will do it. Me by myself i'll compilate the resources for making it possible. I don't care about what does it means. To me she was speaking japanese so i couldn't care less. At some point i understood mount fuji. So i paid the ticket, jump on the plane, hitch a ride and so on. I don't care, i'm unstopable, el king de la selva.
A Ti user would be more like, damn japan, what do i know about this country? how much money i have? will it affect my premarital relationship? wouldn't it be necessary to look at this and understand the principles behind samurai sword craftery? and what about the comercial relationships they held with holland?, why holland?, why my boss is speaking japanese? is it what i want in my life? (shadow Fi finally showing up) and so on. Go read intp forum for a while. Damn Ne + Ti. It's crazy.
I didn't have to go to japan. It's a way of explaning it. BTW.
That did contain way too much Ne. I don't do that part of the analyzing process as a Ti+S auxiliary type.


So... if I get the gist of what you're saying, Ti is more concerned with "how things work" and is process-oriented, whereas Te is more concerned with being "effective" and is result-oriented. According to this, the Te way is faster (because it is more focused on results rather than process) and the Ti way is more comprehensive and systemic, but slower (because it takes time analyse and do things according to a certain internal process). And that an individual is either more inclined towards one or the other (Te or Ti).
Yes. For example, when I worked with my ENTJ business partner, the differences were very clear in this way. He would take up facts real quickly and did not mind a bit of trial and error to get things working. I was analyzing much deeper and that took time but I gained an understanding that he never found despite being an Intuitive and he'd ask me for help at times. :tongue:


In your example of music recording, it sounds like you already had a certain end goal in mind and simply wanted to get there and do things based on "gut", whereas your friend is more meticulous, more in the habit of doing things a certain way ("ritual"). He probably also possesses a greater theoretical understanding, as he seemed to show an appreciation of how each of the elements (plugins) work together to produce a superior sound.

I wouldn't necessarily relate all of these to Te and Ti per se, partly because much of what you've associated with Te (competitive vibes, mad drive and violence, impatience and wanting to skip the process to quickly achieve the end goal, etc), I relate more to Se. And that what you interpret as your friend Ti-ing, is probably a manifestation of his existing superior technical knowledge. He could also have been viewed as a goal-oriented Te-valuer who feels that the most effective way of achieving his goal, is to do exactly what he has done (via a routine of fastidiousness)
I see you are mixing socionics and MBTI together. That's a problem because they aren't really consistent with each other. The Te/Se stuff as discussed by you here, is partially just an extraverted attitude really.


Isn't "what needs to be done" understanding the gist of the news story? I would think that all newspaper readers would have done exactly as you have (skimmed the news story to quickly get new information out of it). Unless of course, it is a story with more meat, and you have a deeper interest in the issues involved and would like to understand it better. In which case, this "Te" person would then be forced to "Ti".
That's just introversion in this generic context of reading a newspaper (where you say Te would have to go to Ti).


I could be wrong, but it seems to me that you're putting a little too much emphasis on Ti as "understanding" and Te as "getting things done".
Well that's the I and E attitudes of T. Or it can be I/E attitudes of other functions, depending on what is meant exactly by these terms such as "getting things done".


And again, I would like to bring this back to the time factor. It's an either-or scenario when one is pressed for time - a Ti-valuer would be forced to be result-oriented (which you seem to associate with Te), even if they may want to gain a deeper understanding of all the facts and how they fit into a system.
Yes. This is what I have to do a lot, unfortunately, when pressed for time which does happen often enough if I want to get something done. This is at least how I perceive it, because otherwise I do have an adequate understanding at that point to get things done but I'm just not satisfied with that.


Whereas a job that would require one to do much analysis, would force a Te-valuer to analyse and chew on every relevant facet of the system. Over time, that might even influence the Te-valuer to believe that he is a Ti-valuer as he becomes more proficient at what he does (hence falling into a routine of fastidiousness).
That business partner I mentioned earlier, he was doing a job with me where analysis was highly an advantage and he did analyse in his own way but he never got the Ti type of understanding. It's just different. Others surely explained better before how the Te competency and knowledge is different from a Ti understanding.
 
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