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There was a time not long ago when I had it my head that my inner monologue WAS me, and I wanted extroverts to understand this. I can see now that I was wrong. There’s much more to me than the voice in my head. I understand now that I am actually running on internal AND external fuel, and it’s important for me to take care of both Ni and Fe.

This is the process that I go through pretty much on a daily basis:

INTERNAL PROCESS
1. I will often listen to my MP3 player. My mind’s eye will see abstract images and construct sort of a music video to go along with the music. My inner monologue will often overlap with this as I mull over things in my mind. I think of this as sort of a “party mode”.
2. I talk to people in my head, and I inspire them with my insight. People appreciate me for doing this. I can become the other person. I can have a “realistic” conversation with a person, because I understand their mindset. Lately, I’ve been thinking about you people on the INFJ forum. You’re in there with me. I’ve been you.
3. I can intellectualize on a philosophical-type level. I can also interpret symbolism in movies and novels. I used to get excited by this, but I no longer think of this as being that important.
4. I think about what I am going to write before I write. [I’ve always enjoyed writing. Even as a small child, I wrote “books” out of construction paper. :proud:]
5. Every single night when I go to bed, I make love to my “wife”. I am very romantic with her. I think I would be a good husband and father. I know my fantasy is very idealistic, but I still think it could be a reality one day. It seems more POSSIBLE now that I understand my temperament and I am confident.

EXTERNAL PROCESS
1.When I am with close friends and family members, I am often sort of a quirky comedian. I like to make people laugh.
2.*New development: I look people in the eye. I speak confidently. I am respectful but assertive when necessary.
3.* New development: I do whatever needs to be done when it needs to be done. If I don’t know how to do something, I try to learn how to do it. I no longer think in the “us v. them”- mode in regards to intuitors and sensors. I no longer think of anything as being “superficial”.
4.*New development: I talk more often, and I always communicate on a level that I know the other person can understand. I express appreciation for anyone who does something nice for me.
5.* New development: I am never reserved. I am always free-spirited, and people like it.
6.* New development: I have never been very well coordinated, but I seem to have magically become more coordinated with my newfound confidence.
7.*New development: I am not shy around the opposite sex, and I have a more mature attitude about sexuality in general. I no longer think of myself as “shallow” for being physically attracted to women. I have adopted the “humans are sexual beings” attitude.

Ok, just for fun, let me mention my physical appearance:

I am 6’4” and approximately 270lbs.- currently dieting and exercising to lose weight. I normally wear a T-shirt and jeans. I have a Southern accent that makes me sound MUCH dumber than I actually am. Most people think I play sports. There is no way on Earth that anyone could look at me and think “philosophical humanitarian”. If ever there was a walking contradiction, it’s me. :wink:

I now primarily consider myself to be an extroverted feeler. I think of Ni as being mostly a writing tool.

What I am trying to do on this forum is very important to me. As a matter of fact, the only way for me to be happy is to try to help you underdeveloped INFJs. I may have to eventually write a book on the subject one of these days. I HAVE to do it. I had to decide to be a “hero” before I felt like a complete person. It’s as though my inner monologue said, “Yes David, this is what you must do. I will be nice to you now.”

I read all this stuff on the internet about INFJs being "eccentric". I don't think it has to be that way. I think you can be "normal" and "booksmart" at the same time.

This is what I want you to do:

Try to form more of a balance on the N/S scale to the point where you can enjoy doing sensor type stuff. Believe it or not, sensors do not have anything against intuitors IF they have “common sense” in addition to book smarts. Your I/E scale is already more balanced than you think it is because of Fe. I would ask you to think about how differently you act around close friends and family members. More than likely you are not shy. And like I said before, your shell exists because you are shy and not because you are introverted. You need to be honest about that.

You need to assert yourself more. I know you don’t like conflict, but sometimes you need to take charge. A confident INFJ can often be found in a position of authority. Confidence makes all the difference in the world for an INFJ.

Stop thinking about yourself and think of a way to realistically help other people. Then, put on your superhero costume and go DO IT! You are being a pretty sorry ass “protector” if the only person you are protecting is yourself.

That’s all I have for this week. Class dismissed.
 

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Hey, I'm super happy that life is going well for you :D
It's great that you want to help out your fellow INFJ, but you sounded a bit patronizing which personally made me want to write you off. As an INFJ we are generally good at knowing how we come across, and I think you might have forgotten about that a bit on this post.
It's good advice though :)
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Hey, I'm super happy that life is going well for you :D
It's great that you want to help out your fellow INFJ, but you sounded a bit patronizing which personally made me want to write you off. As an INFJ we are generally good at knowing how we come across, and I think you might have forgotten about that a bit on this post.
It's good advice though :)
It's tough love. I promise. You all don't need someone to baby you. You need someone to tell it like it is.

It frustrates me when people write me off. Please don't do that. I'm doing what I think is best for you.

I can hardly stay off of this forum tonight because of your post, lauradee. I want SO BAD for people to understand my true intentions. You are letting your feelings get in the way if you think I'm being patronizing.

Here....I will give you an internet hug, lauradee... *hugs you*

Now, stop thinking that I'm being patronizing. Please.
 

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I really enjoyed this post.

i have moved onto socionics in terms of personality typing.

but I really feel like you have done some major self-discovery. thanks for being amazingly awesome and telling it like it is.
I feel with some of us we all take our own paths.

also. I think there is a lot of confusion as to types and typing with other people on the forum.
a lot of INFJ (INFP) and INFP (INFJ)

anyway. thanks bud. I hear ya. keep up that confidence.
 

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Wonderful insights!

You explained the processes very well! Make me understand more about INFJs now
 

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EXTERNAL PROCESS
1.When I am with close friends and family members, I am often sort of a quirky comedian. I like to make people laugh.
2.*New development: I look people in the eye. I speak confidently. I am respectful but assertive when necessary.
3.* New development: I do whatever needs to be done when it needs to be done. If I don’t know how to do something, I try to learn how to do it. I no longer think in the “us v. them”- mode in regards to intuitors and sensors. I no longer think of anything as being “superficial”.
4.*New development: I talk more often, and I always communicate on a level that I know the other person can understand. I express appreciation for anyone who does something nice for me.
5.* New development: I am never reserved. I am always free-spirited, and people like it.
6.* New development: I have never been very well coordinated, but I seem to have magically become more coordinated with my newfound confidence.
7.*New development: I am not shy around the opposite sex, and I have a more mature attitude about sexuality in general. I no longer think of myself as “shallow” for being physically attracted to women. I have adopted the “humans are sexual beings” attitude.
Hey! This is what I'm working on in my own way! Thank you for writing this!
 

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This is the process that I go through pretty much on a daily basis:

INTERNAL PROCESS
1. I will often listen to my MP3 player. My mind’s eye will see abstract images and construct sort of a music video to go along with the music. My inner monologue will often overlap with this as I mull over things in my mind. I think of this as sort of a “party mode”.
2. I talk to people in my head, and I inspire them with my insight. People appreciate me for doing this. I can become the other person. I can have a “realistic” conversation with a person, because I understand their mindset. Lately, I’ve been thinking about you people on the INFJ forum. You’re in there with me. I’ve been you.
3. I can intellectualize on a philosophical-type level. I can also interpret symbolism in movies and novels. I used to get excited by this, but I no longer think of this as being that important.
4. I think about what I am going to write before I write. [I’ve always enjoyed writing. Even as a small child, I wrote “books” out of construction paper. :proud:]
5. Every single night when I go to bed, I make love to my “wife”. I am very romantic with her. I think I would be a good husband and father. I know my fantasy is very idealistic, but I still think it could be a reality one day. It seems more POSSIBLE now that I understand my temperament and I am confident.

EXTERNAL PROCESS
1.When I am with close friends and family members, I am often sort of a quirky comedian. I like to make people laugh.
2.*New development: I look people in the eye. I speak confidently. I am respectful but assertive when necessary.
3.* New development: I do whatever needs to be done when it needs to be done. If I don’t know how to do something, I try to learn how to do it. I no longer think in the “us v. them”- mode in regards to intuitors and sensors. I no longer think of anything as being “superficial”.
4.*New development: I talk more often, and I always communicate on a level that I know the other person can understand. I express appreciation for anyone who does something nice for me.
5.* New development: I am never reserved. I am always free-spirited, and people like it.
6.* New development: I have never been very well coordinated, but I seem to have magically become more coordinated with my newfound confidence.
7.*New development: I am not shy around the opposite sex, and I have a more mature attitude about sexuality in general. I no longer think of myself as “shallow” for being physically attracted to women. I have adopted the “humans are sexual beings” attitude.
Wonderful and very encouraging! (I didn't find your post patronising).

Your Internal Process sounds exactly like me.

Your External Process list sounds like something I have started to work on subconsciously over the last year or so. Especially the following:

2.*New development: I look people in the eye. I speak confidently. I am respectful but assertive when necessary.
3.* New development: I do whatever needs to be done when it needs to be done. If I don’t know how to do something, I try to learn how to do it. I no longer think in the “us v. them”- mode in regards to intuitors and sensors. I no longer think of anything as being “superficial”.
4.*New development: I talk more often, and I always communicate on a level that I know the other person can understand. I express appreciation for anyone who does something nice for me.

The other 3 I am still working on but I can see how I have already started working to work on these without realising.

When I read your External Process list one thought came to mind 'relax'. I can be a very uptight person and I have a hard time relaxing, even when I’m 'relaxing' I'm uptight. And it seems that one of the things needed in order to develop the External Process is to feel relaxed about myself and other people.
 

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Hey, I'm super happy that life is going well for you :D
It's great that you want to help out your fellow INFJ, but you sounded a bit patronizing which personally made me want to write you off. As an INFJ we are generally good at knowing how we come across, and I think you might have forgotten about that a bit on this post.
It's good advice though :)
agreed. you are helping some people here, looking at all of the posts above, but it sounds like you are talking down to "all you underdeveloped INFJs" ... like you're so high and mighty. it's past patronizing to me, it's disrespectful. who are you to place yourself above other people here?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
agreed. you are helping some people here, looking at all of the posts above, but it sounds like you are talking down to "all you underdeveloped INFJs" ... like you're so high and mighty. it's past patronizing to me, it's disrespectful. who are you to place yourself above other people here?
I try so hard to get off of here, but I worry about responses like this.

I am NOT above you. I do NOT place myself on a pedestal. I want everyone here to be confident in themselves, and I want them to apply their ideas to help other people.

It was a mere matter of MONTHS ago when I was at their stage. I WANT THEM TO REACH MY STAGE!

I am trying to pump CONFIDENCE into them by TOUGHENING them up, and I want them to see that there is a way out. I am BLUNT because, and only because, I feel that that is the best way to accomplish this.

I swear to GOD that I have nothing but the best inentions. It troubles me so much to read posts like yours. I am not being arrogant here. I am trying to help people the way that I think they need to be helped.
 

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it sounds like, if anything, you are trying to pump confidence in them (unnecessarily) by breaking them down. and please don't capslock me to death. i didn't do anything to you.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
it sounds like, if anything, you are trying to pump confidence in them (unnecessarily) by breaking them down. and please don't capslock me to death. i didn't do anything to you.
Sigh...no.

They need to be honest about themselves.

We are not perfect. Most of us don't understand ourselves. We need to "get" it and do something about it, but a lot of us are stuck in Ni-mode, and we can't get out of it unless we understand ourselves.

Sorry about the all caps. Have a nice day.

Ps. I want to add this edit:

I think that throughout my life I was my own worst enemy. I had to downright defeat myself. So, yes, I admit that some of it was my own fault and not society. In my posts, I am thinking about my own experiences. In some ways, I am a little upset at my younger self, but I realize that I didn't "get" my personality. I actually thought that I was more introverted than I was, and I was lonely all the time.

Based on all my research on INFJs, I realize that it's essential for them to understand themselves. They need to know that they are basically introverted extroverts. They need to know that they are actually not reserved and that the only reason for the shyness is from their own confussion that they believe that something is wrong with them.

Again, I understand why you think the way that you do, but I promise that you are mistaken about me. Can I ever articulate my possition in a way that would change your mind?- Maybe not. I don't know. I'm not going to say anything else to you about it.
 

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i think in your last post, you said the same exact thing, but you reworded it so it wasn't (taken as) a call to action, or an attack. kudos to you, this i understand, and have a neutral, if not positive vibe from. you came across as caring, not pushy.

nothing against you, but when i feel myself or others are being talked down to, my defenses are ablaze. INFJ thing? probably.
 

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i think in your last post, you said the same exact thing, but you reworded it so it wasn't (taken as) a call to action, or an attack. kudos to you, this i understand, and have a neutral, if not positive vibe from. you came across as caring, not pushy.

nothing against you, but when i feel myself or others are being talked down to, my defenses are ablaze. INFJ thing? probably.
Actually, it is kind of a call to action. It's not an attack though.

I feel that it is important for INFJs to act. I'm having trouble sleeping now, because I'm worried that I'm not making myself clear on here. Ni won't let it go.

I don't curse in real life. I use that kind of language on here as a method to stress the importance of what I am saying.

Just because I am "pushing" people to act, doesn't mean that I am trying to dominate them. I think they would be happier if they did it.
 

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I think some people are overreacting a tad too much.

I don't like criticism so I feel that I would have known straight away if that is Dave's intention (dsv2e can I call you Dave?) However I don't believe he was attacking anyone personally but talking about the general vibe he was getting from INFJ's here on Perc.

I think that if you took the post personally and are offended by it than is it possible that Dave might actually be right? I often find that if I am offended by what someone has said about me it is because they have picked on something that I already know I need to work on:

'When we blame ourselves, we feel that no one else has a right to blame us.' Oscar Wilde.

If there are INFJ's who read the original post and thought that it didn't apply to them then they should have just ignored it and moved on.

As far as I'm concerned, I am really interested in seeing if trying to develop particular parts of my personality can be effective and allow me to feel more comfortable around other people and to allow me to develop the confidence to be more assertive. I thought the original post was very interesting and encouraging not patronising at all. I'm a little surprised that the INFJ's here took it that way.
 

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Sigh...no.

They need to be honest about themselves.

We are not perfect. Most of us don't understand ourselves. We need to "get" it and do something about it, but a lot of us are stuck in Ni-mode, and we can't get out of it unless we understand ourselves.

Sorry about the all caps. Have a nice day.

Ps. I want to add this edit:

I think that throughout my life I was my own worst enemy. I had to downright defeat myself. So, yes, I admit that some of it was my own fault and not society. In my posts, I am thinking about my own experiences. In some ways, I am a little upset at my younger self, but I realize that I didn't "get" my personality. I actually thought that I was more introverted than I was, and I was lonely all the time.

Based on all my research on INFJs, I realize that it's essential for them to understand themselves. They need to know that they are basically introverted extroverts. They need to know that they are actually not reserved and that the only reason for the shyness is from their own confussion that they believe that something is wrong with them.

Again, I understand why you think the way that you do, but I promise that you are mistaken about me. Can I ever articulate my possition in a way that would change your mind?- Maybe not. I don't know. I'm not going to say anything else to you about it.
Nice post :) your humility won me over.
I can sooo relate to " I actually thought that I was more introverted than I was, and I was lonely all the time." It's only in the last couple of months that I've actually figured this out and started working on it.

Ps Raj, you're dp keeps making my heart thud lol

And umbrellasky (though I think of you as Kirsten Dunst xD) Love that Oscar Wild quote. I find it especially deep considering how confident he was!
I think a lot of people who disagreed would have just moved on, I reckon it's better when people state their opinion even if it's bad, at least then the author knows how they're being received?
 

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Very interesting post. I have been soul searching lately. On confidence and conflict. I avoid conflict because it is such a waste of time and when I assert my position, people don't understand and that is why it is a waste of time. So I must separate confidence from conflict avoidance as the more confident I am about something, the more I think I will not be able to put it into words and that the words themselves are the limiting factor. I love this forum.
 

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Nice post :) your humility won me over.
I can sooo relate to " I actually thought that I was more introverted than I was, and I was lonely all the time." It's only in the last couple of months that I've actually figured this out and started working on it.

Ps Raj, you're dp keeps making my heart thud lol

And umbrellasky (though I think of you as Kirsten Dunst xD) Love that Oscar Wild quote. I find it especially deep considering how confident he was!
I think a lot of people who disagreed would have just moved on, I reckon it's better when people state their opinion even if it's bad, at least then the author knows how they're being received?
That's a good point, I didn't think about that. Yes we should all be able to say something but... I just thougt that the person that got offended (I think it was raj) had said how she felt about the post and when Dave tried to explain his intention he was still being misunderstood and this then frustrated me so I felt like I had to say something.
 

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I see nothing offensive in the OP,.. but I did find it exhausting.. all hat crusading spirit and call to action.. heheh
I suppose i didnt find it offensive so much as that I just dont particularly feel like helping anyone. I'm not identified by four letters,.. just because im equipped to serve and help, doesnt mean I have to.
I suppose me saying this is kinda redundant,.. but I beleive the oposter does need to know that his crusade will fall on some deaf ears, and not to get so frustrated about that.
I think most INFJ's are already swamped by the calls of help, put upon them by others,.. and certainly some INFJ ARE introverted and not just shy.
Some of us, are even *gasp* like INTJ's in our absolute contentment with being alone and left to our own devices, :)
i applaud your attempts to help those who want to be helped however. and i wish you continuing contentment Dave, :)
G. x
 

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Good luck with your hero pursuit and the classroom teaching...if I may bring the classroom back together for a tad bit. If we or anybody is to take conflict by the strap's and take it head on. It might be important to not take things to personal before you do so. A "super hero" isn't born over night well maybe they are, I think my point is kinda sorta understood oh well who cares. Part of being a leader is taking criticism, conflicting issues, and expressing yourself assertively with confidence, and so on and so on.

Once again good luck :)
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I see nothing offensive in the OP,.. but I did find it exhausting.. all hat crusading spirit and call to action.. heheh
I suppose i didnt find it offensive so much as that I just dont particularly feel like helping anyone. I'm not identified by four letters,.. just because im equipped to serve and help, doesnt mean I have to.
I suppose me saying this is kinda redundant,.. but I beleive the oposter does need to know that his crusade will fall on some deaf ears, and not to get so frustrated about that.
I think most INFJ's are already swamped by the calls of help, put upon them by others,.. and certainly some INFJ ARE introverted and not just shy.
Some of us, are even *gasp* like INTJ's in our absolute contentment with being alone and left to our own devices, :)
i applaud your attempts to help those who want to be helped however. and i wish you continuing contentment Dave, :)
G. x
Goodewitch, I said it to you before, and I will say it again.

If you are happy, then that is fine with me. I felt like a worthless person before I discovered that I was an INFJ. I was shy. And from what I've read on the internet, that applies to a lot of INFJs, but they can be mistaken for extroverts if they are confident. This is true for me. If it is not for you, then fine. If it does not apply to ALL INFJs, then fine. I know I'm not alone though.

I am here to help those who want to be helped. You may disregard my crusades if you find them exhausting. That applies to any other person reading this as well.

Have a nice day.
 
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