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Discussion Starter #1
I understand that going the 8 functions route is the best way in determining your type. I've read many description of functions. Understanding them isn't the problem. The problem is determining if I do what it says. Let's do some examples.

Se
aware of what is in the physical world in rich detail
When I read that, I imagine being in a forest or in a field surrounded by trees and I'm spinning around and around looking at everything. Do I do this? I don't normally spin. When I'm bored I can just sit and look around at things. When I do this, I often notice things I normally don't. But when I notice the world in rich detail, is it really what this is talking about? Or does it just seem like rich detail to me, when a real Se user's version is 10x as much?

Ne
noticing hidden meanings and interpreting them, often entertaining a wealth of possible interpretations from just one idea or interpreting what someone's behavior really means
Do I notice hidden meanings? I don't know. What if I do but don't think so because it didn't seem hidden to me? What if I think I do but it really wasn't hidden at all? What's a "wealth" of possible interpretations? Many? If it means many, I'm thinking hundreds. I certainly don't come up with hundreds of possible interpretations to something. Wealth could mean quality as well. How would one determine the quality of possible interpretations? How imaginative they are? How do you measure imagination? What about how accurate they are? Would that be more wealthy? I try to determine what someone's behavior really means, but I'm often feel at a loss.

I seem to be stuck between ENTP, ISTP, and INTP. I definitely have Ti. Fe/Fi seems iffy, but Ti means Fe. I relate to descriptions of each of the 3 equally well for what I can clearly understand, but a lot of it is like above, where it might seem like I do something but for an actual user of it, it would be very minute in comparison.

Regarding E/I, I can be alone for a long time, I like getting away from social gatherings and finding someone to talk to one-on-one, but at my parents' house I can spend hours and hours talking with my siblings and interacting with them with no hint of a desire to stop and dislike when the time gets so late that I should probably go home. I'm also very vocal over there and almost compete with my life-of-the-party-always-making-jokes dad. I can also be pretty pushy when I want attention and I love recognition for things I did that I think deserve it. My wife says I'm constantly talking and she never gets a chance to talk about what she wants because I dominate everything. I love telling stories and explaining them in detail to immerse the listener in as close to the same experience as I had when it happened. I hate when I write long posts and no one replies. I can be pretty prideful and I get defensive easily when someone questions my motives.

I usually favor the villain because they usually prove to be the best and most powerful. They are usually only beaten because the majority of people disagree with them and gang up on them or because the writers gave them bad luck. One-on-one the villain would almost always win, and they do win even against a group for most of the movie.
 
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All of the questions that the Ne description provoked for you just screamed Ne working with Ti. You seem an extrovert so I would say ENTP preferences with a pretty well developed Ti. Possible INTP hard to tell extrovert or introvert. But your Ti did seem to coke through strongly so you could lead with it.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Yeah, I suppose Ti would be redefining "wealth" and the like. Picking apart the meanings. But I just want to make sure I fully understand. It's not my fault, nor is it the fault of the writer. It's just the nature of language, at least English, to have words that mean general ideas rather than specific, unique situations. Otherwise there'd be 10x as many words and a lot of them seemingly redundant.

I mean, look back at "wealth" up there. A "wealth" of possible interpretations. I first take it to mean a lot of possible interpretations. So either the author looked up "a lot" in a thesaurus, found one that they haven't used before, and stuck it in there (in which case I'm reading too much into it), or they specifically picked it because it describes everything they wished to express all in one word. But in that case, being wealthy doesn't just mean having a lot of something. It means having a variety of things of worth. An impressive collection. Wealthy is subjective and means having what you deem of value. Money, friends, food. In this case Ne probably values possible interpretations, so Ne having a wealth of anything would probably mean varied ideas about it. How can I, or even more so, someone else, determine if my psyche has a wealth of things Ne considers valuable? So really, whether I have a wealth of possible interpretations or not depends on if the possible interpretations I do come up with are varied enough, imaginative enough, and numerous enough to qualify as something Ne would decide is a wealth of them or not. So since having Ne depends on if I have what it considers a wealth or not, I need Ne to determine it. What if someone has Se and thinks they have a lot of possible interpretations? What if they do have a lot compared to other people they talk to? They would think they fit this category and, without Ne telling them that their "wealth" of them is crap, the person would have no way of knowing. Does Ne even decide what's valuable? Isn't that T/F's job? How does one decide these things for themselves!?
 
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You ask some incredibly intriguing questions. Guess that's why everyone says us INFJ's love talking to you XNTPs lol. I will try to explain my interpretation of the questions you asked and the thoughts they provoked for me.

Sure everyone has different values. I read a description of Ti vs Fi that ultimately said that Fi's need to learn that attacking a Ti's ideas will be very upsetting in the same way that attacking an Fi's values will be angering and upsetting to an Fi. Ti's value their ideas. Think of T/F as the PROCESS you use to come to judgments, not just the judgments themselves. Having Ne you ask so many questions from all angles and look at so many things in quite an intriguing way. Someone with Se would not be so concerned with theoretical possibilities and interpretations so much as possibility about what is going on around them in the moment right then. Think of an athlete or fighter who needs to be physically on their toes and in the moment and spot when to dodge and turn. Se people would not try to define "wealth" or possible interperetations unless they have a strong Ti perhaps. If they did have Ti and were talking possibilities, it would be on a different wavelength than an intuitive. They may perceive themselves as intelligent with having Ti and have a lot of ideas but they would more likely be concrete/linear ideas than abstract. Your Ne does not necessarily decide what is important or valuable (your Ti makes those subjective judgments) to you but it is a kind of filter you use in your perceptions, as the perceiving function. Having it create a "wealth" of possibilities in mind is kind of what you just showed an example of in your previous post. Your Ne comes up with the ideas, your Ti picks them apart to the point of almost driving you mad but in the way you enjoy. Having Ti, you value your own definition of things and what makes sense to YOU as you think it out as opposed to Te who thinks that certain things should always make sense to everyone. If your personal definition of wealth, for example, was attacked you would be angry because your ideas are very personal and meaningful to you.

Hope this helped.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Someone with Se would not be so concerned with theoretical possibilities and interpretations so much as possibility about what is going on around them in the moment right then. Think of an athlete or fighter who needs to be physically on their toes and in the moment and spot when to dodge and turn. Se people would not try to define "wealth" or possible interperetations unless they have a strong Ti perhaps.
See, I always read things like this, that Se is concerned with what is physically happening around them. But if an Se user was reading the Ne description, they wouldn't be running or dodging blows, so their skills in those areas wouldn't affect them here. I'm pretty athletic and competitive when playing sports as well.

If they did have Ti and were talking possibilities, it would be on a different wavelength than an intuitive. They may perceive themselves as intelligent with having Ti and have a lot of ideas but they would more likely be concrete/linear ideas than abstract.
So what would Se tell someone about the concept of having a wealth of possible interpretations? Would they just take it at face value, meaning having a lot of things? I would think that would fall into Te territory. Or would it not mean anything to them at all and they'd just see it as a filler word? Or maybe you mean that they are concerned with their physical surroundings and they wouldn't really be paying attention to what they're reading.

Regarding the concrete/linear wavelength of possible interpretations, what are some examples of those? If you're INFJ, you have Se last, so maybe it's hard for you to think of without your Ni affecting it. I'm just having trouble thinking of possible concrete interpretations of "wealth of possible interpretations". Maybe you mean that their possible interpretations are about concrete things rather than theoretical, like a book can also be a coaster or something to balance your table, or merely a bunch of pages or pieces of paper. It's better for me if I can compare things with all other factors being the same.

Having it create a "wealth" of possibilities in mind is kind of what you just showed an example of in your previous post. Your Ne comes up with the ideas, your Ti picks them apart to the point of almost driving you mad but in the way you enjoy.
Yeah, I realized that while I was typing it. I even imagined you responding to it by saying that I just showed a perfect example of having a wealth of possible interpretations from a single idea. :happy: But others see a good amount of Se in me as well. They say I explain things in a lot of detail, which they attribute to Sensing. Can Si simulate Se?

Having Ti, you value your own definition of things and what makes sense to YOU as you think it out as opposed to Te who thinks that certain things should always make sense to everyone. If your personal definition of wealth, for example, was attacked you would be angry because your ideas are very personal and meaningful to you.
Well, I think that certain things like "wealth" should always make sense to everyone. I dislike that it can be interpreted so many different ways. It's because of the ambiguity of it that I'm even having to. It's because things can be interpreted in different ways that there is confusion for me regarding my type. How is that unlike the Te you described? Or maybe I'm interpreting "should" different than you did when you said they should make sense to everyone. So there's another example. I'm taking and meaning it as "I wish it would".

I can't imagine being upset if someone disagreed with my definition of wealth. But maybe you meant "attacked" like someone belittling me for having that definition and making it personal. But that really has nothing to do with my definition of it. My definition seems pretty iffy to me as it is and I'd love for someone to come along and clear it up for me. Wealth has a meaning. It also may have a different meaning to the author. I'm only having to come up with my own because I don't know what meaning it had for the author. It would be nice if it had one meaning that everyone understood and there wouldn't be confusion. But I know that my definition was developed by hearing it used in sentences, knowing it is related to the word "wealthy", understanding the concept of someone being wealthy and having a lot of money or things they consider of worth, and this picture in my head of a fat old guy with his pants pulled up past his belly button with coat tails and a monocle in his well-furnished gold-colored living room with a fireplace. I know it's subjective and based on sources that could very well be incorrect. It could be a misunderstood term that most people use incorrectly and the writer of the article could have used it correctly. I realize all of this instinctively. I would have no problem with someone pointing out my incorrect understanding of it. In fact I welcome it. I wouldn't have laid out my definition of it if it was something I wanted to protect.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Don't let typists troll you, you're not Ne. If you want I can dig up some quotes that support Ti+Se.
Yes please.
 
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This is assuming that you've already excluded Fi.

10) How do you judge new ideas? You try to understand the principles behind it to see if they make sense or do you look for information that supports it?
I don't know, let's see. Someone proposes the idea that my boss hates me. First thing I think of is my boss sitting behind his desk and imagining him talking to me and secretly hating me. Then I think of things he has said to me and how he seems to be around me and take note that his words and actions don't seem to indicate that he hates me. I then think of other examples from the past and try to read into them to see if maybe I just didn't pick up on it. I try to think of things he has done to support that he does hate me or things I read wrong. Then I wonder where they got this idea. Did they talk to him and he said this? No, he wouldn't say that. I don't think he hates anyone. Someone would probably have to do something really bad to him for him to hate them. Then I think the person is either pulling my leg or misreading my boss. I then conclude that I can't be completely sure one way or another, but from what I've experienced he most likely doesn't hate me.
This should safely exclude Ne.

But if I don't understand what I'm doing that goes against what they like, how can I do so? What would be the alternative to asking? Just saying "okay" and ignoring them? I would think that would be worse. So I ask what's aggressive about my driving and they say that I changed lanes quickly. Okay, I agree that changing lanes quickly without any context can be aggressive or at least reckless. But a car had just pulled out in front of me while I was going 60. My choices were to slam on my brakes, jerking everyone in the car forward and possibly risk hitting the car anyway, or flipping my blinker on, glancing over my shoulder and in my mirrors, and shifting into the other lane. Of the 2 options, the second seems the safest and less jarring, especially if the other lane is wide open. I explain this but it is viewed as being stubborn and just wanting to argue. I ask what they would rather have me do. They say to slow down. Really? Slam on the brakes when I can easily switch lanes without putting any strain on the car, brakes, or passengers? Then they don't want to talk about it anymore because I'm being difficult and not caring about their feelings.
I interpret that as Ti+Se very much.

Hmm. I can't know what my dad is thinking, but I usually want the answer and not a guess at what I really want. If I ask "how many forks are there?" it's because I require this information before proceeding. Maybe it's because I want to make sure everyone has one and if there are fewer, I'll get the rest. Maybe it's because I have some extra forks where I'm at and if there are that many missing from the table, it would most likely explain where they are from. Maybe some are missing from the drawer and I want to see if there are already some on the table. I wouldn't mind if I got the "there's one missing" answer if I was wondering if there were enough for everyone, but it would just confuse me if I was asking for any other reason:

Me: (hmm, there's a fork missing from the kid's forks on the counter. i only put 5 of the 7 adult forks on the table because I need to wash 2 more. i wonder if someone put it on the table.) Hey, Ben, how many forks are on the table?
Him: Oh, there's one missing.
Me: (one missing? yeah, one's missing from the counter here, but he doesn't know about that. one missing from the 5 i had on the table, meaning there are 4, meaning there are 2 missing? or one missing from the 7 that should be there, meaning there are 6, meaning someone probably took this one and put it on there? it depends on if he saw the 5 there originally or not.)

I then have to clarify and ask if he means there are 6, at which point, depending on his mood, he'd probably say something like, "Yes, 7 minus 1 is 6." But see, he doesn't know what all the circumstances for me are, and I don't know all the information he had to figure one was missing. Even if he got my intention right off the bat, it still introduces lots more margin for error. I'd still have to make sure we were on the same page.

If I wasn't asking for information and instead wanted his assessment of the situation, I would have asked, "Ben, are there enough forks on the table for everyone?"
ENFP Wiki
Scanning Environment: Se is noticing changes and opportunities for action, by scanning for sensual reactions and data. It notices relevant facts and occurrences in a sea of data and experiences, learning all the facts we can about the immediate context of area of focus and what goes on in that context. An active seeking of more and more input to get the whole picture may occur until all sources of input have been exhausted or something else captures their attention.

Add to this the above video where you seem to recall details accurately, very Se. That's how I see it.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
But if I don't understand what I'm doing that goes against what they like, how can I do so? What would be the alternative to asking? Just saying "okay" and ignoring them? I would think that would be worse. So I ask what's aggressive about my driving and they say that I changed lanes quickly. Okay, I agree that changing lanes quickly without any context can be aggressive or at least reckless. But a car had just pulled out in front of me while I was going 60. My choices were to slam on my brakes, jerking everyone in the car forward and possibly risk hitting the car anyway, or flipping my blinker on, glancing over my shoulder and in my mirrors, and shifting into the other lane. Of the 2 options, the second seems the safest and less jarring, especially if the other lane is wide open. I explain this but it is viewed as being stubborn and just wanting to argue. I ask what they would rather have me do. They say to slow down. Really? Slam on the brakes when I can easily switch lanes without putting any strain on the car, brakes, or passengers? Then they don't want to talk about it anymore because I'm being difficult and not caring about their feelings.
I'm curious. How would the non-Se's handle this situation?
 

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I see Se in your video too. And I think I remember seeing another video of yours where you're talking about pranks you pulled at work? Sorry if I've got the wrong person. If that's you, though, you seem to be able to recall details both accurately and effortlessly and relay stories of things you did / happened to you in rich detail. All that seems heavily Se to me.

Also. Just going by your posts in this thread, you seem to write with a lot of structure and detail, again supporting Ti Se. Also, I remember your post in another thread about the Ron Artest incident and the highly detailed explanations there as well. If you consistently put this much detail into your writing and speech (i.e. your posts here are not anomalies for some reason), and it's relatively easy for you to do so, that points to Se over Ne.

I'm going with ISTP for now. :)
 
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I'm curious. How would the non-Se's handle this situation?
Non-Se can do the same thing ofc, but what really points towards Se in the text would be that you seem to take in the environment 'unfiltered', trusting your 5 senses.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Non-Se can do the same thing ofc, but what really points towards Se in the text would be that you seem to take in the environment 'unfiltered', trusting your 5 senses.
Hmm. It seems pretty filtered to me. Out of all the sky, clouds, trees, bushes, distant mountains, interior of my car, passengers, etc, I only notice the lanes and car in front of me. And even if I did notice all the other things, they would be irrelevant to my argument to my passenger about why I switched lanes so quickly. Or does that count as an example of when Se notices the relevant details in a sea of objects? In which case, I wonder what a non-Se user would more likely take in from the same environment.

I'll try to explain in as much detail everything I can remember about my walk to work today:
While walking to work today, I was listening to Angra. They're a great power metal band from Brazil. One of my favorites. I pretty much started on auto-pilot right out my front door. Let's see:

That pretty girl next door. Nope, her car's not here. She's a bitch anyway. What time is it? (pictures the microwave clock at home) It's already 8. (pictures a digital clock with the display "8:10") I'll only be about 10 minutes late. (pictures a wall clock) That's not so bad. (a scene of me walking into work plays briefly in my head) It's a lot better than 30 minutes like I normally used to be. I'm trying to be there on time. This is a good song. (pictures the cover of the CD with a huge white angel spreading his wings) This is the CD where they go back to their original style after changing it in the last album. Or is this the one where they change their style? Hmm, does this sound like their old stuff or different? I can't tell. But at any rate, it's all good. (song lyrics sing "Nova Era", the title of the song) Nova Era... That means it doesn't go. I doubt the singers meant it that way. Nova means "does not go" in Spanish. (this scene plays in my head from the movie "Tower Heist" that we watched last night: Ben Stiller and Eddie Murphy are driving in a car. Ben just bailed Eddie out of jail. He's trying to make small talk with him and he says "Nova means 'does not go' in Spanish. That's why they didn't sell many in Latin America." Eddie is not impressed. Ben starts saying more trivia and Eddie just looks annoyed.) Heh, typical "book smart" meets "street smart" scene. Of course they had to depict it with a white and black guy playing those roles respectively. Dude, Ben, Eddie's going to think you're a lame nerd if you keep talking like that. That's not the way to make small talk with him. He has no respect for you. (pictures Ben Stiller's face and notices his gray hairs) He did look like he had a lot of resolve in that movie, though, and he's getting older. He's not just some weak loser. And Eddie Murphy's hardly someone to be hardened. Who is he to act all serious, being a comedian himself? When did Eddie get fed up again? (Ben asks him if he wants something to eat and Eddie finally gets fed up and slams on Ben's foot, making him accelerate before asking him why he bailed him out of jail) Ben picked him out because they had words on the street each day. Dude, that doesn't mean you relate to each other or have a connection. I learned that the hard way with that bitch next door. Of course he's going to wonder why you bailed him out of jail. He seems to not remember you, but he does, he just doesn't think it is relevant. See, you are thinking "we see each other every day, so that would explain why I'd bail you out", but he wouldn't think that would be any more of a reason than if you hadn't ever seen each other before, so he's not even letting on that he remembers you. When you try to get him to remember, you're goal is for him to understand why you bailed him out, but you don't understand that getting him to recognize you wouldn't achieve your goal. How can you not get that right away? Well, I suppose it has to go this way to depict the comedy moment. Even given that you were classmates as kids, it only gets a little closer to explaining why you bailed him out. (scene plays where Eddie remembers Ben as the seizure kid and Ben explains that he didn't have seizures, only had asthma. but Eddie is adamant that he had seizures and foamed at the mouth and everything. Ben insists there was no foam) (pictures actual foam coming out of a kid's mouth) Would Eddie really think he had seizures just because he used an inhaler? He must have had something happen for Eddie to remember it that way. Why would he make that up? And he doesn't care what it really is. He wants to remember him as "seizure kid" because it's more demeaning. He needs to feel superior to him. Is that how he'd really be, or is it just the stereotype of that kind of person he was written as to provide the proper character for the comedy moment they wanted to happen? I hate when they do that. What did he think when he first got bailed out and saw Ben standing there? (scene plays when Eddie gets out of jail and sees Ben by his car) What was he thinking then? (scene plays when the guard tells Eddie in jail that he made bail and Eddie purses his lips together and squeezes the deck of Poker cards he's holding in a way that makes them all spring out of his hand onto the ground and gets up to leave) Don't just make a mess. Will the guard have to pick them up? Or maybe some janitor. What a crappy job. Do you really get a deck of cards in jail? What, do they just give you cards so you don't have to be bored when you're there as a punishment? Don't they only let you have things you can't use as a weapon? Couldn't he slice the guard's throat with one of those? Well, maybe not. You'd have to already have a significant physical advantage over the guard to do that, and then you wouldn't need the card anyway. Throw the card? No, you couldn't throw it hard enough to make it fly straight like a tornado could. Only if you're Gambit would cards be dangerous. He didn't even look like he was playing anything with them. He'd probably only play Poker with them. If I was in jail and had a deck of cards, I'd spend the whole time playing with them and working on further developing my card game. (pictures myself sitting in on a bench in his jail cell and playing my game against myself, playing the role of multiple players) I'd have a lot of time to do that. That'd be cool. Would it become popular in there? What if it became a game everyone in prison played? Would hardened criminals really play my game or would they think it was dumb? (pictures Patrick Jane from the show "The Mentalist" in prison showing card tricks to the inmates to distract them from attacking him) Are real people in prison like that? Jane distracted them with card tricks. Most people would be afraid of these guys and probably freeze up or try things that wouldn't work. He keeps his cool and knows what will get these guys to focus on what he wants them to focus on. This is a good song. Wait, it's almost over. I completely missed this song because I was lost in thought.

(this was past the halfway point in my walk, meaning about 7-8 minutes had passed)

Hmm, I was completely oblivious to the song being played and I don't remember any of my physical surroundings for the last 7-8 minutes. I can't have been using Se unless it was set on auto-pilot and I'm using something else right now. Well, I was focusing on thoughts, so an internal function. There's Ti and Ni. Ti just analyzes things, but it needs data to analyze. A perceiving function is needed for that, but it has to be internal since the source was all memories. Was I using Ti+Ni that whole time with Se in subconscious mode? That's one of those loops. Ti+Ni loop. I read those can lead to unhealthy reasoning without the function of the opposite orientation between them being involved. But how could noticing the details of my surroundings help the reasoning I just had? It would only distract me. Is that what all "lost in thought" moments are? Ji+Pi loops? Can your dom/aux even be in subconscious mode? Well, I certainly wasn't using it in my conscious thoughts. I don't have any conscious memories of anything outside myself for that whole duration. I was recalling memories and linking them to other related memories. That's how my current understanding of Ne works, but it could be just iNtuition in general. I can't have been Ne anyway, since I wasn't focusing on the external world. So I was either using Ni or Si. If Si, then it was subconsciously. I know one of the subconscious roles is used when having internal dialog. Hey, this would be a good thing to post about on the forum. Yeah, I could talk about how I got lost in thought about the movie last night and how one thought brought me to another one and I was oblivious to my physical surroundings. Maybe someone there can point out what function I was using. I hope it surprises them and this type of thing isn't just normal. So the first thing I thought of was "Tower Heist", right? What made me think of that? It was something Ben was saying to Eddie, like trivia stuff. But what made me think of Ben's trivia? Was I imagining myself trying to impress someone else with trivia? No, I don't think so. What was I thinking of before that point?

At this point I was approaching work and decided I'd think of it once I got settled in at my desk. It wasn't until I looked at my song list and saw the song "Nova Era" I finally realized what made me think of the movie.
 

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Hmm. It seems pretty filtered to me. Out of all the sky, clouds, trees, bushes, distant mountains, interior of my car, passengers, etc, I only notice the lanes and car in front of me. And even if I did notice all the other things, they would be irrelevant to my argument to my passenger about why I switched lanes so quickly. Or does that count as an example of when Se notices the relevant details in a sea of objects? In which case, I wonder what a non-Se user would more likely take in from the same environment.
Like in http://personalitycafe.com/infp-forum-idealists/17861-you-know-youre-infp-when.html
You know you're an INFP when...

...you've walked into a wall that seemed to appear out of thin air.
And this is what I'm getting at, you will naturally filter out stuff, but you take it in unfiltered. Ne-users seems to have a higher tendency to do things like in the quote above as they don't take in everything unfiltered.

I will read the rest of your text and come back later.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Ne-users seems to have a higher tendency to do things like in the quote above as they don't take in everything unfiltered.
You know you're an INFP when...

...you've walked into a wall that seemed to appear out of thin air.
I would associate this with being lost in thought and not paying attention to your Pe function. So Ne's eyes would see the wall and maybe make a connection to something else and they'd perceive it as some kind of meaning other than "obstacle" and since their Ne was on auto-pilot because they're lost in thought and their judging function is talking with their introverted perceiving function, it's not available to decide the practicality of Ne's information and hence they don't realize there's something in their way?

Whereas Se would see the wall and perceive it as something that could only mean "obstacle"? My wife often seems baffled how I can be completely oblivious to messes and piles of clothes or dishes when I'm right by them and had to walk past them. I explain that most things only get translated to me as "obstacle" and that's the extent of the information I get.
 

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@Elaminopy

Where to begin? So, you have settled on IxTP at least, and that's a good start. If you're Ti dominant like you believe, then you'll be able to access both Sensing and Intuition very easily, since S-N is at the auxiliary-tertiary level for you. So to decide whether you're ISTP or INTP, you can't just look at Se vs. Ne. You must look at Se-Ni vs. Ne-Si, because as you know, they work together. I'm an ISTP, and I often look like an NT, because my Ni function is very well developed. So you need to decide whether you use Ne vs Ni, because these functions are opposite from each other. The problem with Se vs Ne is that as extraverted perceiving functions they can often look alike on the surface.

Also, banish the thought of Se as merely noticing details or using the five senses. Se is concerned with "what is", reality in the moment as it is unfolding. Se is very pragmatic. Ne is concerned with "what could be", the emergent possibilities in the moment. It doesn't have to be a hundred possibilities.

Ni also notices possibilities, but not in the same way as Ne. The best way I know how to describe it is how I use it. I find that I best explain by examples that show how these concepts work in application (an Se trait right there): I'm encountered with a situation say at work or at school, say someone is behaving oddly. I notice that person's unusual behavior, usually by observing body language, intonation and tone of voice, the things they say, etc. That's me using my Se. I'm in my environment, observing what is. When I'm using Ti to the exclusion of all other functions, I probably won't notice anything that's going on around me. All introverted functions can be "absent-minded" like this, which is basically disconnected from the outer world. But back to Se. So with Se, I make no judgments and I don't read "between-the-lines" of that behavior. But with Ni, I will look at all angles of the situation, especially when I'm trying to solve a problem. Maybe the person is tired, maybe they're having a bad day, or something could be going on at home, etc. The list can go on. And as Se and Ni work together, Ti is making judgments, no that isn't practical, yes that makes sense, etc. Ultimately, Se-Ti will work together; I'll think there's no point in guessing, it's a waste of energy, I can think of a hundred reasons why they're behaving oddly. Either I can just ask them if there's a problem and what can I do to fix it, or move on with my day.

I would imagine that this process would be reversed for Ne-Si, or they may come to similar conclusions through a different process. Ne-users feel free to correct me if I misspeak, since I'm not an Ne-user. But with some Ne-users I know, I've observed that they will assume that the possibilities they generate are true, (they could be true, they could not be true), because those possibilities match how they perceive reality, which is where Si comes in. Si is not reality as it's emerging, but rather reality as they perceive it, mainly from past experiences. Si is "what was", but it's also subjective reality. Someone on the forum (I don't remember who) described Si as what is perceived as real = real for an Si-user. So in a similar situation I described above, an Ne-Si user may assume that one of the possibilities is true, say that the person is probably having problems at home, because that's what has happened in the past.

So, there S and N functions work in tandem all the time. Your difficult task is to determine which function pair you use.
 

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you can't just look at Se vs. Ne. You must look at Se-Ni vs. Ne-Si, because as you know, they work together.
Have any reading material sources for these types of descriptions or examples? Is there an easily-searchable term for these pairings? (probably Se questions)

The best way I know how to describe it is how I use it. I find that I best explain by examples that show how these concepts work in application (an Se trait right there)
This is me as well.

When I'm using Ti to the exclusion of all other functions, I probably won't notice anything that's going on around me.
How can this be done? From what I understand of Ti, it analyses information. It would need a perceiving function to provide the information, though. A CPU will do nothing without RAM or a hard drive.

So that poses another question. Is T/F the CPU+RAM and N/S is the hard drive, or is T/F the CPU and N/S is the RAM? Which of these is closer to being accurate?:

1) Peter (perceiving function) runs over to Justin (judging function) and hands him a plate of 3 different cookies. Peter then dances off and Justin sits pondering the plate in his hands and decides on a cookie. Then he calls Peter back and asks if he has something to go with them, at which point Peter finds other options to bring to Justin.

2) Peter runs over to Justin and shows him a plate of 3 different cookies. Justin, having no hands, looks them over while Peter holds them in front of him. Justin decides on a cookie and asks Peter if he has something to go with them. Peter runs away to find other options to bring to Justin.

In the first scenario I can understand using Ti to the exclusion of all your other functions, but I was under the impression it was more like the second scenario.

So with Se, I make no judgments and I don't read "between-the-lines" of that behavior. But with Ni, I will look at all angles of the situation, especially when I'm trying to solve a problem. Maybe the person is tired, maybe they're having a bad day, or something could be going on at home, etc. The list can go on. And as Se and Ni work together, Ti is making judgments, no that isn't practical, yes that makes sense, etc. Ultimately, Se-Ti will work together; I'll think there's no point in guessing, it's a waste of energy, I can think of a hundred reasons why they're behaving oddly. Either I can just ask them if there's a problem and what can I do to fix it, or move on with my day.

So in a similar situation I described above, an Ne-Si user may assume that one of the possibilities is true, say that the person is probably having problems at home, because that's what has happened in the past.
Hmm. I identified with both. So the Ne-Si user wouldn't ask them? My ISFJ wife seems to take things as she perceives them and won't accept my explanation that she misunderstood me. And then she says that I always use that excuse. That makes sense.

How I'd probably be in the above situation is I'd notice something was wrong. Probably tone of voice or something. I'd wonder what was wrong and, depending on if they seem to want to be approached or not and if other people are talking to them, I'd either ask them or just wonder until I ask someone else who I think would know. In the ideal situation I'd ask them, that being the easiest and most certain way of knowing. Unless of course they were lying. If they don't tell me or I think they are lying, I'll consider it from all angles if I'm really concerned and probably ask others they are close to or I think would know. But in considering it from all angles, I'd give more weight to their past pattern and what has normally been wrong before. If I can't be pretty certain about it, I'd conclude that it would be impossible to know by me just speculating, so I'd move on.

I understand you don't understand Ne too well, but even so, you skimmed over the Ne possibilities and talked mainly about Si's influence on it. I'd be interested in knowing what Ne would notice about the person to tell there was something wrong and what possibilities it would generate that differed from Ni's.
 

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Have any reading material sources for these types of descriptions or examples? Is there an easily-searchable term for these pairings? (probably Se questions)
There is tons of information on this forum. I just don't have it on hand. I'll have to do a search first. :)

How can this be done? From what I understand of Ti, it analyses information. It would need a perceiving function to provide the information, though.
For me at least, I'm just deeply analyzing something, breaking it down. This could be when I'm solving a problem, it could be I'm just in trance and analyzing my thoughts, my day, my favorite TV show, the book I just read...at that moment, I'm just analyzing, and I'm not taking in any new information. When I get in a rut, it's usually because I keep on analyzing the same information over and over, and not using Se-Ni to bring in new information to analyze.

So the Ne-Si user wouldn't ask them? My ISFJ wife seems to take things as she perceives them and won't accept my explanation that she misunderstood me. And then she says that I always use that excuse. That makes sense.
Oh, the Ne-Si user might just ask them, too. I should have said that in the first post.

How I'd probably be in the above situation is I'd notice something was wrong. Probably tone of voice or something. I'd wonder what was wrong and, depending on if they seem to want to be approached or not and if other people are talking to them, I'd either ask them or just wonder until I ask someone else who I think would know. In the ideal situation I'd ask them, that being the easiest and most certain way of knowing. Unless of course they were lying. If they don't tell me or I think they are lying, I'll consider it from all angles if I'm really concerned and probably ask others they are close to or I think would know. But in considering it from all angles, I'd give more weight to their past pattern and what has normally been wrong before. If I can't be pretty certain about it, I'd conclude that it would be impossible to know by me just speculating, so I'd move on.
From what you described here, I am inclined to say that you're probably using Se-Ni.

I understand you don't understand Ne too well, but even so, you skimmed over the Ne possibilities and talked mainly about Si's influence on it. I'd be interested in knowing what Ne would notice about the person to tell there was something wrong and what possibilities it would generate that differed from Ni's.
The Ne possibilities could be any of a number of things. I understand Ne in theory, but how it might play out in a real life situation, I'm not as sure. So I will have to draw from some resources for this explanation, and not my own immediate understanding. Ne may behave similarly to Se in the fact that it adapts to the environment. However, unlike Se, Ne is focused more on the future than on the immediate situation. Ne focuses more on the context and emerging pattern of the situation, rather than the details or objects in a situation, like Se would. Ne-users will draw from patterns familiar to them to fill in the blanks on a situation, if that situation is similar to another situation in the past. I gather that this process is kind of short-cut in order to imagine future possibilities of the situation. The problem with this short-cut is that the assumptions could be wrong. Lenore Thomson says this process can cause the Ne-user to make "unwarranted generalizations", because the impressions of the moment seem similar to patterns from the past.

Let me give an example of this from real life. I have a friend who is ENxP. She often makes these snap judgments about people based on some shady criteria. We were in a class together, and she took an instant dislike to a guy who was also in the class. She kept on saying "I hate that guy!" At first, I just accepted that statement (Se) and figured that they must have had a class together before which caused her to dislike this guy or something along those lines (an Ni assumption...Ni can make wrong assumptions too) and I just left it at that. But then, as the semester went on, and I finally cared enough to ask her why she hated him, I realized that she hadn't met him before that class, and she didn't even really know the guy! She just decided she hated him based on one of these vague Ne-assumptions that she has. Well, she hated this guy for two semesters straight, and when she finally talked to the guy, she found out he was really cool and funny, and she had been hating him unfairly for no good reason. My brother is INFP and he also will make assumptions and assume it's the truth. So while an Ne-Si user could ask the person straight out what's up, in my experience, many times, they don't and just assume the possibilities they imagined are accurate. The thing is, they often are accurate, especially if Ne is dominant or auxiliary.

Also another problem: Se-Ni and Ne-Si can come to the exact same conclusions through their different processes. I think the difference is, as an Se-user, I don't automatically jump to all the different possibilities of every given situation. Just thinking about it, it seems to be a ludicrous waste of time. I go for what works in the moment. If what I imagine right now won't work X amount of time down the road, why think about it now? I'll cross that road when I get to it. I think the difference between Ne and Ni is that Ni is more linear (it will imagine the whole scenario from the beginning, middle, to the end), while Ne is more holistic, it doesn't need to see its imaginings all the way to its conclusion; to back this up, I have a quote from Lenore Thomson's book: "They [Ne-users] may lose interest before anything of consequence has ever happened. A small part of the vision, once realized, suggests the whole thing, and the Intuitive feels no need to consider the matter further" (203).
 
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Also, here's some information I found about function pairs, just from a quick search:

SeNi: emergent tangible experience compared with stored conceptualizations (patterns)
NeSi: emergent conceptualizations compared with stored tangible experience (facts)

SeNi: emerging experience, internalize the meanings
SiNe: emerging meanings, internalize the experience

http://personalitycafe.com/articles/34956-function-attitudes-applied-differing-scenarios.html
http://personalitycafe.com/articles/24048-functions-working-tandem.html
http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/75205-explanation-functions-pairs.html
http://personalitycafe.com/myers-br...nderstand-cognitive-function-definitions.html
 
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Thanks. I'll read those later. You mention Lenore. I used to read her stuff until her area on greenlightwiki seemed to have gone down.

One thing I seem to really disagree with other ISTPs on is that they seem to not want to talk a lot or share their thoughts and feelings and also don't seem to care to listen to other people a lot. Like even when you said that when your friend said they hated the guy and it took you a while to finally care enough to ask. I'd be immediately curious if someone said that to me. I'd want to know why. I'd want to know what they did to make the person hate them. I don't know if it's because I care about their feelings or if I'm just curious or just want to talk or if it's because it would take a lot for me to hate someone so I'm curious about what this person could have done, or if it's just because I like listening to gossip. I love gossip, especially when someone's telling it to me. The whole time I feel good because the more bad things the person they are complaining about did, the bigger gap there is between me and them in the list of things we did wrong, and the better I am by comparison.

And as you can tell, I thoroughly enjoy talking about my thoughts and feelings. Perhaps it's my way of making an impact.

But besides the asking or not asking part, I'd also take it as she said it and then figure he must have done something mean or rude on a previous occasion. Ne would really make an assumption like hating someone she just looked at? Wouldn't that be Fi making an unhealthy decision based on Ne's information? I usually look at someone for the first time and determine a bunch of stuff about them, but I know my assumptions are most likely subjective and I try to keep them at bay because of it. I really give people the benefit of the doubt a lot. Even if everything is telling me they are a total jerk once I talk to them, a little part of me always tells me that I could just be misunderstanding. I could be wrong. I don't know anything for certain. I don't know what's in their head. What I see as asshole behavior could just be their defensive stance because they are misunderstanding me and thinking I'm being a something their environment growing up has taught them is something negative. I take the most likely approach, but I'm always open to something new. There are very few things I know for an absolute certainty.
 
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