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MOTM Nov 2010
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I know us ENFPs can be well liked and we can be open and warm. I am not going to start another thread about "Are we flirting or is that just us being 'nice' or 'joking'".

The point is, we do it. And we have enough information by now to know how our behavior is received. Girls-we KNOW some guys get confused by us, by our "friendly" attention. The introverted guy may be questioning "does she really like me or does she do that with everyone?"

Men-You know you have an ability to "out romance anyone" when it comes to romancing someone. Do you save that for only the woman you really want to be with? Or do you also do it on a first date, where you hardly even know each other yet? And then the woman gets blown away by your romance, falls for you, only for you to decide later she isn't right for you. But based on your extreme displays of romance, she felt like she was the one true "forever" special person in your life.

Men and women-we joke. We kid. We DO flirt. I will admit to my behavior in my early 20s. I remember even if I didn't like a guy, I would continue to lead him on just for the attention. I was interested in someone else, but I didn't want to lose this other guy's attention. This leads the guy on. It's so sad. Perhaps this is why it's the underlying issue why it's hard for us to say "no" or reject someone.

We hold on and keep them as friends, secretly knowing they want more from us.

Sure, we can play innocent and say that ENFPs have only the best intentions. We claim we can see other people's perspective so clearly. But when it comes to understanding that our flirting can really hurt someone who really cares about-most of us aren't willing to go the extra step to see that other person's perspective or pain. We innocently claim "I wasn't doing anything" or "I thought we were just friends".

I've seen over and over ENFPs on the forum need the attention from random strangers. Why is that? Why are you so willing to jeapordize a relationship for some flirtatious attention with a stranger?

I think forums can be dangerous. There is a lot of input for our Ne to go crazy. It's a candy shop for us. I'm sure those of us who are in relationships tend to hyper focus on the relationship. I doubt you'd find me here much anymore. And I think it would almost be painful to have my man here.

I see people in relationships, who even live with their partner, yet flirt with everyone on the forum. They have their real life "boyfriend" and then they have their cyber boyfriends. I use females in the example, but it works the same with men too.

My plea is this: Please ENFPs, if you are not interested in a guy/girl: let them go. I know many of you are going to argue with me that you are doing nothing to "lead them on" but then there is the reality. We are WAY to perceptive of human condition to not understand when we are leading someone one or not.

Be okay with being upfront with them. Be okay with the opposite sex even hating you for rejecting them. But for God's sake, don't lead them on and use them for attention or for your temporary cure in your moment of loneliness.

Spend time with a potential mate, but cut the other's lose that you know are into you. Stop using people as a "back up". Learn what true vulnerability is.

I see ENFP girls leading men on WAY more than guys. However-Guys it would help if you could just be more up front from the beginning about your intentions. You almost reap what you sow by not being direct. I'm sort of preaching to the choir here, because I think EnFP men get pretty excited pretty quick so it's hard NOT to see their romantic intentions. But still, ENFP men are not innocent in trying the non-direct approach and trying to "slip through the back door" if they like a girl. This behavior only makes it harder for girls to directly reject you. You've never stated your intentions so the girl never has to reject you. And the guy has now set himself up for being "lead on".

Just own up, ENFP. That's all I ask. Own up and be responsible with your charm.
 

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My plea is this: Please ENFPs, if you are not interested in a guy/girl: let them go. I know many of you are going to argue with me that you are doing nothing to "lead them on" but then there is the reality. We are WAY to perceptive of human condition to not understand when we are leading someone one or not.
Guilty.

Spend time with a potential mate, but cut the other's lose that you know are into you. Stop using people as a "back up". Learn what true vulnerability is.
Perhaps this comes with age and wisdom.

Just own up, ENFP. That's all I ask. Own up and be responsible with your charm.
Alright, ALRIGHT!!! Stop twisting my arm already....lol

But seriously. Why would you leave? I've been here less than a month an find your posts quite amusing, thought provoking, informative, and intellectually stimulating.

Why would it depress you to have your man here? What left such a sour note in your mouth? People on the forum misbehaving can't be the only reason you've had enough...

Someone cross a line?
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Guilty.



Perhaps this comes with age and wisdom.



Alright, ALRIGHT!!! Stop twisting my arm already....lol

But seriously. Why would you leave? I've been here less than a month an find your posts quite amusing, thought provoking, informative, and intellectually stimulating.

Why would it depress you to have your man here? What left such a sour note in your mouth? People on the forum misbehaving can't be the only reason you've had enough...

Someone cross a line?
Lol. I'm not leaving. But I think we all have the potential to "cross the line" and hurt someone. I'm suggesting instead of rationalizing the behavior, just own up to it. Examine it, analyze, get honest with yourself.

I know in general, we ENFPs don't like hurting others. That is why it's important not to fool ourselves that we are not.

And yes, I'm old. :wink:
 
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Thanks Pink,

You hit on some great points.

First, I think many large companies have policies against inter-office relationships for reasons similar to what you said about having your partner here. When things are good, the two people function well, but when things go bad, it usually ends with one person or both people leaving due to the daily reminders of that relationship.

The second was about not staying here if involved in a deep relationship. Since I tend to redirect my focus towards a few things that interested me the most, I normally would change my social pattern once in a steady relationship and something like the internet would easily take a backseat to a relationship.

Something I would like to hear more of your thoughts on has to do with the differences between the male and female ENFP's and the ways they manage their relationships? As a male ENFP, I have had a hard time keeping my "eggs in different baskets" so to speak and from what I have read here and there on this forum, other males seem to have a hard time also. I know you have been here longer then I, what differences have you seen?

Thanks and hope you have a wonderful day.

SirDude
 
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I think this should be a rule of thumb for anybody, not just the ENFPs. :]

Edit: I really hope people heed your advice. It does seem detrimental of them not to.
 

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Lock me up and throw away the key! Man, Pink! I just got myself out of a situation similar to that. My intention was to just be friends. Then she (an INFJ) expressed her feelings for me. I had no intentions of being with her but..... the idea of being with her seemed nice. I never intended to lead her on. But I did. I never wanted someone's heart in my hand but I unintentionally grabbed it. I felt like dirt. I never wanted to hurt anyone. But my tunnel-vision lead me to think I wasn't doing anything wrong. I didn't realize the power of my charm (I'm in NO way shape or form patting myself on the back OR stroking my ego). We ENFP men DO have to be very careful. I was excited because this was the FIRST female friend my age I've ever had. And she introduced me to a broader scope of MBTI. But she is slowly but surely getting over me. And we decided to stay friends. Whew! That was a lot!
 

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Hehe, you're too beautiful, pink. That's your problem! :tongue:

...

Hey, wait a second.... What did I just do there? What were my intentions? Let your Ne go wild with what I could have meant. Could I have said it so that you'd notice me and give me attention? Could I have said it as practice for giving an ambiguous/edgy/memorable compliment to someone? Well, yes, and yes, but I didn't. Those are both effects of me saying a comment like that, but my intention isn't limited to those particular effects. My intention is to be of service: social service (no, not that kind of social service!). When it comes down to the wire, I just don't want to see anyone dissatisfied. I know plenty of people in real life (as opposed to on the forum) that love those sorts of comments out of the blue from me. People of both sexes.

A big part of what you talked about concerns sexual tension. You also hint at how an ENFP's Fi will most likely demand that we limit our number of sexualized relationships to 0-1, while the rest stay platonic. (There's other potential reasons too, like Fe, and social pressure.) Anyway, I can't speak for all ENFPs, but I'm pretty good at picking out whether something that was said was sexually charged or not. On the other hand, for the life of me, if I'm flat-out trying, I can't come up with anything resembling a pick-up line. But put me in front of a girl I'm interested in and I go into autopilot mode, just sitting back and counting the double-entendres. (Actually, I don't know if I'd still do this; it's been at least 5 years since I hit on a gal I wasn't dating.) But alas, it's been a while since I actually wanted to lead a girl on, and as such I'm careful not to.

Thankfully, we've got two tools make this easy. Ne, as always is our Swiss Army knife. In the last paragraph I suggested how it might be good for picking up possible undertones/alternative readings of what we/they say. If I say something and then realize it could be interpreted sexually, and I don't want it to be, I don't just sit back. I'll follow up by cancelling it out---clarifying myself in a matter-of-fact, sincere way. (Alternatively, if I want it interpreted sexually, I clarify myself in a completely different way.)

The other tool, Fi, doesn't look too shabby when it comes down to telling if someone's interested either, if you know how to use it. I mean what do you think empathy is good for? Sure your Ne will throw more curve-balls your way than a pitching machine, but if it's confirming your Fi's input and doesn't even hint that the person is interested in you, where's the harm in keeping the conversation fun?

Then again, I have to say I'm no male model, and, clearly, I don't want it as bad as most (see: "ENFP's + high sexual drive", posts 1-431). *shrug*
 

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I don't seem to have a problem with charm, like all the rest of you do. :p
 
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I know us ENFPs can be well liked and we can be open and warm. I am not going to start another thread about "Are we flirting or is that just us being 'nice' or 'joking'".

The point is, we do it. And we have enough information by now to know how our behavior is received. Girls-we KNOW some guys get confused by us, by our "friendly" attention. The introverted guy may be questioning "does she really like me or does she do that with everyone?"

Men-You know you have an ability to "out romance anyone" when it comes to romancing someone. Do you save that for only the woman you really want to be with? Or do you also do it on a first date, where you hardly even know each other yet? And then the woman gets blown away by your romance, falls for you, only for you to decide later she isn't right for you. But based on your extreme displays of romance, she felt like she was the one true "forever" special person in your life.

Men and women-we joke. We kid. We DO flirt. I will admit to my behavior in my early 20s. I remember even if I didn't like a guy, I would continue to lead him on just for the attention. I was interested in someone else, but I didn't want to lose this other guy's attention. This leads the guy on. It's so sad. Perhaps this is why it's the underlying issue why it's hard for us to say "no" or reject someone.

We hold on and keep them as friends, secretly knowing they want more from us.

Sure, we can play innocent and say that ENFPs have only the best intentions. We claim we can see other people's perspective so clearly. But when it comes to understanding that our flirting can really hurt someone who really cares about-most of us aren't willing to go the extra step to see that other person's perspective or pain. We innocently claim "I wasn't doing anything" or "I thought we were just friends".

I've seen over and over ENFPs on the forum need the attention from random strangers. Why is that? Why are you so willing to jeapordize a relationship for some flirtatious attention with a stranger?

I think forums can be dangerous. There is a lot of input for our Ne to go crazy. It's a candy shop for us. I'm sure those of us who are in relationships tend to hyper focus on the relationship. I doubt you'd find me here much anymore. And I think it would almost be painful to have my man here.

I see people in relationships, who even live with their partner, yet flirt with everyone on the forum. They have their real life "boyfriend" and then they have their cyber boyfriends. I use females in the example, but it works the same with men too.

My plea is this: Please ENFPs, if you are not interested in a guy/girl: let them go. I know many of you are going to argue with me that you are doing nothing to "lead them on" but then there is the reality. We are WAY to perceptive of human condition to not understand when we are leading someone one or not.

Be okay with being upfront with them. Be okay with the opposite sex even hating you for rejecting them. But for God's sake, don't lead them on and use them for attention or for your temporary cure in your moment of loneliness.

Spend time with a potential mate, but cut the other's lose that you know are into you. Stop using people as a "back up". Learn what true vulnerability is.

I see ENFP girls leading men on WAY more than guys. However-Guys it would help if you could just be more up front from the beginning about your intentions. You almost reap what you sow by not being direct. I'm sort of preaching to the choir here, because I think EnFP men get pretty excited pretty quick so it's hard NOT to see their romantic intentions. But still, ENFP men are not innocent in trying the non-direct approach and trying to "slip through the back door" if they like a girl. This behavior only makes it harder for girls to directly reject you. You've never stated your intentions so the girl never has to reject you. And the guy has now set himself up for being "lead on".

Just own up, ENFP. That's all I ask. Own up and be responsible with your charm.
I probably do that just to fill a void inside. The more people that I can attract, the more fun it is, and the better I feel internally. Also, it is almost fun like a game.
 
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Lol. I'm not leaving. But I think we all have the potential to "cross the line" and hurt someone. I'm suggesting instead of rationalizing the behavior, just own up to it. Examine it, analyze, get honest with yourself.

I know in general, we ENFPs don't like hurting others. That is why it's important not to fool ourselves that we are not.

And yes, I'm old. :wink:
lol, you're not THAT OLD! You act like you are like 80 lol
 
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It's typically the people I DON'T flirt with that I'm actually interested in. I get nervous, and when I get nervous, I get vulnerable, and the idea of making myself truly vulnerable irks my control freak tendencies.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
It's typically the people I DON'T flirt with that I'm actually interested in. I get nervous, and when I get nervous, I get vulnerable, and the idea of making myself truly vulnerable irks my control freak tendencies.
Yes, I know. I've often said that too. But if that is the case, what are your intentions with all those people you are flirting with?

Also, it is almost fun like a game.
This is true. You should have heard Rube and I the other day on Vent. I was joking that I think we could make a sport out of it. The Flirt Off. "How many people can you flirt with within a 2 minute span? GO!!!" :laughing:

As a male ENFP, I have had a hard time keeping my "eggs in different baskets" so to speak and from what I have read here and there on this forum, other males seem to have a hard time also.
Please explain what you mean by this?

I know you have been here longer then I, what differences have you seen?

SirDude
Not ignoring your question, Sir Dude. It's just that I could write a book on what I think the differences are. This is because I have ENFP men and one woman in my real life. I also once lived and was engaged to an ENFP.

So I will come back when I have more time. But since I gave some critical advice, for now I leave you with something else.

I would (and have) trust/ed even my most valuable possession; my daughter to my male ENFP friends. I would trust my life with my female ENFP friend.

It's awesome to see all the insecurity of our youths, wash away, or rather get channelled into an incredible capacity to understand, love, and be an advocate for others. At least that is where all my jealousy and insecurity got transferred into. I don't envy you. In fact, I want you to be even better than you are now. That's a better flow of energy.

Okay, thinking about your question Sir Dude. Going for a run. Formulating my thoughts. Will come back. :wink:
 
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I don't envy you. In fact, I want you to be even better than you are now. That's a better flow of energy.
I always encourage people to better themselves. It's how I've been for awhile now, and it's how my first girlfriend and I got together. She was doing "average" in school (Bs, Cs, few Ds), but I knew she could do so much better. On top of that, I was also interested in her. We hung around each other, and I showed her how I kept up with school, and by our senior year, I graduated 4th and she graduated 3rd. :proud:

However, this is also a problem in my life, too. There's a girl that, granted, I do have a "thing" for, but she's taken... so I don't try to advance on her. The problem is that either she or the boyfriend thinks I am, but it's probably only because I'm truly interested in her life since she has a lot of problems she's working out right now.

Even though I know that, at least for a very long while, we won't be dating, I still care about her well-being and what's going on in her life--regardless of how "we" end up. I've offered to give her a place to stay when she gets kicked out, pay for meals when she can't afford it, etc. It just pains me to hear her say, "Oh, I'll be fine... I found an open park bench," and I just have to sit on the other side of Ohio, knowing she's by herself, in a park, in Akron... but she doesn't believe that anyone can be that generous, especially given how "generous" people have been in her life. The one person that's been as generous is dating her right now, so I think she just equates generosity to boyfriend "material". I really wish she'd just accept my generosity for what it is, and not look further into it.

I'm sorry for the rant, it's just something that's been on my mind lately and really worries me. :unsure:
 

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The one person that's been as generous is dating her right now, so I think she just equates generosity to boyfriend "material". I really wish she'd just accept my generosity for what it is, and not look further into it.
Is there any way you could persuade her to modify her concept of generosity? You know, for her sake? You're not the only male she might benefit from accepting help from in life. Hell, you've probably already given it a good shot, but getting really explicit about your interpretation of her life and using a word like "boyfriend material" to catch her ear might just do the trick. I mean, for her. For your situation, it might not exactly do the trick. :-/

That's just a rambling thought though from across the internet. You're the one who knows what's going on (I hope!)
 

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Wow, I sure hope I don't do this to people...

I suppose everyone isn't used to the verbal engagement that I bring to almost every, even casual, conversation... I really don't think I flirt though, I tackle. Since this would bring on criminal charges in most locales, I save that for my wife - she has yet to press charges hahahahah.

You make some good points about sending off mixed messages though, will consider this angle for sure.
 

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Originally Posted by SirDude
As a male ENFP, I have had a hard time keeping my "eggs in different baskets" so to speak and from what I have read here and there on this forum, other males seem to have a hard time also.
Please explain what you mean by this?
I have read some comments about how other's have a hard time, like myself, putting our attention towards more then one thing or person at a time. (Not talking about multitasking) Example for me, when I job hunt, I don't like applying for multiple jobs that I like at the same time. I know I should, and will if I have to, but just like a relationship, I feel I can not come across as genuine if I know I have a "back-up plan" or some "eggs saved in a different basket."

We hold on and keep them as friends, secretly knowing they want more from us.

Spend time with a potential mate, but cut the other's lose that you know are into you. Stop using people as a "back up". Learn what true vulnerability is.
I don't know enough about the different personality types to really comment much if ENFP's are the only one's to keep their "feelers" out or maybe one foot back on shore when dipping into the water, but I know this does not fit me. When I got certified as a SCUBA Diver, it was all I did, then I put all my "eggs" (attention) into Rock Climbing, then my business.

It's the same for me with a relationship, I may stay happy and talkative with others, but my true attention is fixed on the person I decided to explore a relationship with.I feel if anything is worth doing, as much as falling in love, then you need to do it all or nothing. A person will never learn to swim if they never go deep enough into the water.

So to make a long winded reply a little longer, I was agreeing with the statement that people need to cut other's lose, but I was also saying that I do not know enough to say if this is purely an ENFP thing or a security thing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
However, this is also a problem in my life, too. There's a girl that, granted, I do have a "thing" for, but she's taken... so I don't try to advance on her. The problem is that either she or the boyfriend thinks I am, but it's probably only because I'm truly interested in her life since she has a lot of problems she's working out right now.
I'm sorry, I didn't understand the "problem". It seems that you have a "thing" for a girl and that she and her boyfriend think so too. But also maybe you've been able to convince them (and yourself) that it's merely a genuine interest in her life and her problem? So where is the problem? Are you worried that they know your true intentions inside or are you worried you may blow your chance with her?

Even though I know that, at least for a very long while, we won't be dating, I still care about her well-being and what's going on in her life--regardless of how "we" end up. I've offered to give her a place to stay when she gets kicked out, pay for meals when she can't afford it, etc. It just pains me to hear her say, "Oh, I'll be fine... I found an open park bench," and I just have to sit on the other side of Ohio, knowing she's by herself, in a park, in Akron... but she doesn't believe that anyone can be that generous, especially given how "generous" people have been in her life. The one person that's been as generous is dating her right now, so I think she just equates generosity to boyfriend "material". I really wish she'd just accept my generosity for what it is, and not look further into it.
I'd rather live on a park bench than have some guy "rescue" me. Especially, if I see potential in a relationship. I don't want a relationship based on need, nor do I want someone to take advantage of me because I need help. Plus if I were in her situation, I would think it was incredibly unhealthy to go from one dependent situation to the next.

So the one person who has been generous is dating her right now. And another guy who wants to date her (you) is offering generosity. And she is wrong to question it and look further into it? Do you not see a pattern? Maybe she doesn't like you and doesn't want to move in with a guy she thinks may like her?

Perhaps she is protecting herself and creating a boundary by telling her "no". Do most ENFP men try to move their way in during rebound? That's just wrong. And attempting to be a "savior" is manipulative.

I like you WM, but I don't understand your reasoning. :confused:

I'm actually surprised. ENFPs are usually into creating independence in others.

I'm sorry for the rant, it's just something that's been on my mind lately and really worries me.
Don't let it worry you. Yours is not a noble cause.

Figuring out how to delete this message.
No don't! Put it back!!!

I have read some comments about how other's have a hard time, like myself, putting our attention towards more then one thing or person at a time. (Not talking about multitasking) Example for me, when I job hunt, I don't like applying for multiple jobs that I like at the same time. I know I should, and will if I have to, but just like a relationship, I feel I can not come across as genuine if I know I have a "back-up plan" or some "eggs saved in a different basket."
Why do you keep saying you have a "hard time" putting your romantic focus on more than one person? Are you fishing for a compliment? Yeah-that's right. I read "ENFP'. This is what you want: "Oh wow, no. That is so great that you can only focus on one girl! You're so noble!"

I don't know enough about the different personality types to really comment much if ENFP's are the only one's to keep their "feelers" out or maybe one foot back on shore when dipping into the water, but I know this does not fit me. When I got certified as a SCUBA Diver, it was all I did, then I put all my "eggs" (attention) into Rock Climbing, then my business.
Perhaps you need to balance more and keep all these things in your life to some degree. That way you never get bored of the one current thing you are hyperfocusing on.

It's the same for me with a relationship, I may stay happy and talkative with others, but my true attention is fixed on the person I decided to explore a relationship with.I feel if anything is worth doing, as much as falling in love, then you need to do it all or nothing. A person will never learn to swim if they never go deep enough into the water.
I think ENFP men need to learn to pace relationships and not go so deeply right away.

So to make a long winded reply a little longer, I was agreeing with the statement that people need to cut other's lose, but I was also saying that I do not know enough to say if this is purely an ENFP thing or a security thing.
Well since you seem to be a Holy ENFP, I guess my OP made no sense to you.

You chit chat with others but you have never hurt someone else by your meaningless "chit chat", you focus on one thing and you were once certified as a Scuba diver. You're awesome.

Thanks guys for getting "real" <<<<< sarcasm.

Next victim? :crazy:
 

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Why do you keep saying you have a "hard time" putting your romantic focus on more than one person? Are you fishing for a compliment? Yeah-that's right. I read "ENFP'. This is what you want: "Oh wow, no. That is so great that you can only focus on one girl! You're so noble!"

Well since you seem to be a Holy ENFP, I guess my OP made no sense to you.

You chit chat with others but you have never hurt someone else by your meaningless "chit chat", you focus on one thing and you were once certified as a Scuba diver. You're awesome.

Thanks guys for getting "real" <<<<< sarcasm.

Next victim? :crazy:
Very interesting reply, make fun of the statement or personal feelings that as been expressed by myself and other members and then turn your focus on a worthless (off topic) point just to reinforce your negative feelings.

You'd really make one "awesome" counselor! <<<<< sarcasm
 

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I think you're misinterpreting my intentions. Yes, I would like to date this girl, but no, I'm not going to make advances on her. Yes, I offer her help, but not with the intention of being with her. These two things, to me, are very separate in my head. I don't think she suspects (too much, at least) that I'd like to date her. I've spent the night at her place a couple of times when it was just her and me, so (I think) she trusts me enough in that respect. She's just... very very distrustful in general, so I think being trustworthy of me says a lot about what she thinks of me.

I dunno... You're right to think that it's a sticky situation. :crazy:
 
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