[MilkyWay132]

Am I the only one who doesn't like how MBTI descriptions talk more in terms of values/ideals in the INFP description than the ISFP one? Yes, Ne does look for new possibilities, but Se is not *too* different---rather than searching for possibilities, it searches for opportunities of action.

The descriptions are good at describing Fi/Ne, but not so good at describing Fi/Se. And remember, ISFPs are dominated by Fi. I at least noticed one ISFP description which mentioned the dom Fi(the personalitypage one). In the other descriptions, not so much. Fi is an important part of an ISFP, so how come it's not mentioned more often?

 

[Kito]

Because some people tend to forget about us in favour of INFPs. They're more... well-known in the typology world, shall we say. When most people hear Fi-dom, they think INFP.

 

[MilkyWay132]

Yeah...it's a shame.

 

[Nayru]

I think that the equation Fi = ideals is simply not true.

Fi is about beliefs and judgments from personal feeling. Ideals fall under Fi, but resentments, hateful feelings, resentments and feelings of anger ALSO come from Fi. Fi isn't this "super duper ideal, high value thing", it's also the Darker stuff if you know what I mean.

Sure I make decision that come from values and ideals, but a LOT of my judgments also come from shitty feelings I have toward things and people, and myself, that aren't so shiny and sparkly.

 

[Tad Cooper]

I think that the equation Fi = ideals is simply not true.

Fi is about beliefs and judgments from personal feeling. Ideals fall under Fi, but resentments, hateful feelings, resentments and feelings of anger ALSO come from Fi. Fi isn't this "super duper ideal, high value thing", it's also the Darker stuff if you know what I mean.

Sure I make decision that come from values and ideals, but a LOT of my judgments also come from shitty feelings I have toward things and people, and myself, that aren't so shiny and sparkly.

Yeah, definitely.
There's always two sides, you can't have a pure/perfect function or part of yourself if there's no negative.
I found alot of my selfishness comes from Fi 'ideals' because it's how I see the world, and doesn't consider other's view in that. Luckily I have fairly balanced functions in many ways so I also have high empathy.
Fi = two edged sword.

 

[m_dogg]

I'm tired of people describing ISFP's as incapable of understanding or thinking in metaphor, and rather, that we are prisoners of our 5 senses. I am very metaphorical and conceptual, and my Intuitive side is very developed, I am just more dominant in Sensory. And to me, the visual, physical, sensual beauties of life are incredibly poetic in themselves.

And plus, I have met many xNFx who are total foodies, will not sit through an "intellectual" film if there is not enough action going on, and have an incredible joy for physical luxury (wine, massages, color, textiles). And quite a few of them couldn't write even a Haiku to save their lives. So phooey, let me write my prose and read my James Joyce in peace, (and do so while I savor a delicious latte stirred with Nutella and dipped into with a salty peanut crunch pretzel, mmmm... pretzel), thankyouverymuch!

Just because something is dominant, doesn't mean it is the entire.

 

[Smiling Aria]

I definitely agree with the 2 edge sword thing regarding Fi. I'm much more used to INFPs, and I noticed that many of them either present themselves (via avatar, music interests, color, books, etc) in a dark and creepy way or a cute and blissful way. I think INFP and ISFP are the same in that regard, and most ways for that matter.
I would assume it was my Fi that led me to be very sadomasochistic before. I'm no longer that way due to higher self respect o.o

 

[MilkyWay132]

Yeah..I didn't really discuss the dark side of Fi. It's not very pretty. And I agree that with Fi, it can be a bit selfish because you're only seeing your own point of view. It's about how you ideally want the world to be, and how much you personally value things. I know it can make me slightly bull-headed at times.

Fe is based on sympathy whereas Fi is more based on empathy. Fe users will feel sorry for a person, but Fi users will relate to that person. Fe will think "What Johnny went through must of been very stressful. Poor guy.." whereas Fi will go "I know how Johnny feels; I've been through that kind of situation before, and it sucked."

 

[KeroPanda]

There's something that has always bothered me about my "ISFP" and Fi.

Most of the time, Fi is about having strong values and beliefs. In the positive light, this could be viewed as knowing what is important. In the negative light, it can come sometimes across as stubborn and judgemental.

Yet while there are issues that my ISFP feels really strongly about. For most stuff, she'll have no real opinion on the matter. In addition, she's not really keen on questions such as "What do you value? Who are you?" etc... Granted, she's enneagram 9.

What gives? Or am I misunderstanding ISFPs/Fi/Enneagram 9s?

 

[MilkyWay132]

Hmm..I'm not sure if her Enneagram type has anything to do with it. Maybe she is still be trying to discover who she really is and isn't completely sure of her beliefs yet. Why do you think she is a ISFP?

 

[KeroPanda]

Hmm..I'm not sure if her Enneagram type has anything to do with it. Maybe she is just indecisive and hasn't really found her way in the world yet. She might still be trying to discover who she really is, and therefore not sure of her beliefs or personal identity yet. Why do you think she is a ISFP?

Yeah she's definitely still discovering herself in that sense. I get the impression she does know, but it's more on a subconscious level when she's actually faced with the situation than if I were to ask her on the spot "What do you value".

If she truly is an ISFP, I can see the Fi-Se combo in that she tends to know what she dislikes and likes in terms of comfort around her. Pushing her to do stuff that she's not too keen on usually just results in a lot of resistance. She's pretty much not into the whole non-controlling aspect of people, as she values independence-freedom a lot. Guess, when I ask her to do personality quizzes and stuff, she's reluctant because they are usually pretty difficult to figure out. At the same time, I thought Fi individuals usually have a pretty good idea of who they are, but maybe this is only true when they have discovered/strengthened their own values? It could be she that for most stuff, she's just neutral because there's no reason to have strong opinions over the matter.

I brought in Enneagram 9s in because a lot of people there seem to have problems with knowing who they are exactly as well.

 

[MilkyWay132]

Oh, I see. Enneagram 9s usually dislike conflict, which may lead them to agreeing with other people to end the conflict. This, I guess, can lead them to being unsure of their own opinions and beliefs. So I can see how being a Enneagram 9 would affect her, even if she really is a ISFP.

 

[davisk]

Oh, I see. Enneagram 9s usually dislike conflict, which may lead them to agreeing with other people to end the conflict. This, I guess, can lead them to being unsure of their own opinions and beliefs. So I can see how being a Enneagram 9 would affect her, even if she really is a ISFP.

Hi! I'm jumping in to agree as an ISFP 9. I don't spend time thinking about or naming my values. In fact, I have a really hard time understaning any sort of justice system, even an individual-internal one. I consider myself well-meaning and strongly convicted, but not principled. (That's where the inconsistent and wishy-washy Fi thing comes in a little for me. It's getting better as my Ni gets better and I understand my own patterns. Buuuut.) I like to keep things flexible, just see what happens as it happens-- I'm scared that making premature judgements will not allow me to understand/ judge the full picture as it deserves to be judged. Not sure if that helps any... your friend does remind me of myself a bit, just from that description.

 

[KeroPanda]

Yeah, it does seem that the enneagram 9 interacts with the MBTI system to produce quite a difference.
I'm fairly sure she's SFP given that she seems to exhibit a large amount of Te, but isn't really a TJ either...

Strong conviction is definitely something that characterises her, assuming she has decided that it's something she truly believes in, which can be difficult given most things just generate a neutral response. But I guess this thread isn't about her. I was just curious how Fi could manifest in different ISFPs. @___@

 

[MilkyWay132]

Well, if she has a lot of Te, I think that would make her more of a ESFP because Te is their tertiary function, whereas in ISFPs it is the inferior function. While she may come off as an Introvert, she might be a shy Extrovert. Or she may actually be a ISFP with well developed Te, though I think that is probably less common than a ESFP will well developed Te.

 

[LotusBlossom]

yeah, i agree. It's always the INFPs who have all these high-minded ideals and values in the popular MB descriptions, while the ISFPs are just kind and nice or whatever, except for that personalitypage description, but even so, the values and ideals of ISFPs are described nowhere near as extensively and as in depth as the INFPs'. It is incredibly baffling because ISFPs and INFPs share a dominant function, so why is it mysteriously less dominant in one type than in the other? There's the implication that ISFPs are not as deep or as capable of being in our head or that our values aren't important to us, or, I don't know. Whatever. I just know it doesn't sound good.

from personalitypage:

ISFP

As an ISFP, your primary mode of living is focused internally, where you deal with things according to how you feel about them, or how they fit into your value system.

They have a strong set of values, which they strive to consistently meet in their lives. They need to feel as if they're living their lives in accordance with what they feel is right, and will rebel against anything which conflicts with that goal. They're likely to choose jobs and careers which allow them the freedom of working towards the realization of their value-oriented personal goals.
​

INFP

As an INFP, your primary mode of living is focused internally, where you deal with things according to how you feel about them, or how they fit into your personal value system.

INFPs, more than other iNtuitive Feeling types, are focused on making the world a better place for people. Their primary goal is to find out their meaning in life. What is their purpose? How can they best serve humanity in their lives? They are idealists and perfectionists, who drive themselves hard in their quest for achieving the goals they have identified for themselves

INFPs are highly intuitive about people. They rely heavily on their intuitions to guide them, and use their discoveries to constantly search for value in life. They are on a continuous mission to find the truth and meaning underlying things. Every encounter and every piece of knowledge gained gets sifted through the INFP's value system, and is evaluated to see if it has any potential to help the INFP define or refine their own path in life. The goal at the end of the path is always the same - the INFP is driven to help people and make the world a better place.

INFPs are flexible and laid-back, until one of their values is violated. In the face of their value system being threatened, INFPs can become aggressive defenders, fighting passionately for their cause. When an INFP has adopted a project or job which they're interested in, it usually becomes a "cause" for them. Although they are not detail-oriented individuals, they will cover every possible detail with determination and vigor when working for their "cause".

INFPs have very high standards and are perfectionists. Consequently, they are usually hard on themselves, and don't give themselves enough credit. INFPs may have problems working on a project in a group, because their standards are likely to be higher than other members' of the group. In group situations, they may have a "control" problem. The INFP needs to work on balancing their high ideals with the requirements of every day living.

​

see the difference? :\

 

[Type B]

I didn't read this whole thread but I'm just going to say my thoughts. I don't like most of the descriptions of Fi I come across. All I read is that introverted feelers know what they value. "I value this. I value that. This thing I believe in, and I believe in that too." Isn't there more to introverted feeling than that? Isn't feeling the way we react to everything we see and hear. Where others "think", we feel things within deeply. Isn't that part of Fi?

To me, Fi should be more than just a "system" of values known to the individual. That description kind of makes us look limited. Or am I wrong?

 

[Kito]

I always thought the whole values thing was a bit wishy-washy. The way I've always seen Fi is knowing what you want, why you want it, and working towards achieving that, without being swayed by external factors. The difference is that INFPs use this with Ne to see how they could change the world to their ideals, and we use it with Se to experience the world as it already is. And for some reason, most descriptions put more emphasis on the Ne side of Fi.

It was the descriptions that Kayness posted that made me think I was an INFP at first, because their whole Fi description applies to me, except for the part about finding meaning in life (as far as I'm concerned there isn't really one). It's no wonder there's so much sensor bias around here, the descriptions of sensors are giving us a bad name.

 

[firedell]

It's alright, we have awesomeness on our side.

 

[KeroPanda]

I didn't read this whole thread but I'm just going to say my thoughts. I don't like most of the descriptions of Fi I come across. All I read is that introverted feelers know what they value. "I value this. I value that. This thing I believe in, and I believe in that too." Isn't there more to introverted feeling than that? Isn't feeling the way we react to everything we see and hear. Where others "think", we feel things within deeply. Isn't that part of Fi?

To me, Fi should be more than just a "system" of values known to the individual. That description kind of makes us look limited. Or am I wrong?

That was the description of Fi that I've seen thrown around mostly. The idea that the values and beliefs are also deeply ingrained within the core of an individual (thus can be unconscious at times) but influencing every decision and perception of the person. It also explains why the whole 'I don't really know why, it's just how it feels' response are generated as well. Knowing your own values and stuff like that is just basically the conscious aspect of it.

You weren't wrong when you wrote that.