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Hey ladies, hey ladies...

 


Ahem. What I mean is I have a question. Inspired by another thread. I realized that whenever someone is hitting on me, I am well aware of it. My universal map of everything definitely includes all the systems and mechanisms that people use to hit on you, and I have had such a map since I was a teenager. And the map is actually quite detailed and subtle.

Now, if they are just sweetly, respectfully in love with me, and are showing this by being nice to me and giving me lots of attention, I might miss that. It's actually likely I'll miss that. They'll have to come right out and say, "I'm sweetly, respectfully interested in you." I might even think, in an extreme example, that if they invite me to a movie, they just want someone to go with them.

So I'm still a little Fe out of touch, but not so out of touch that if someone keeps commenting on my hemline, or how great my hair smells or whatever, or even holds eye contact a little too long, I'm not going to develop a theory about them in pretty short order. I'll get it pretty immediately, in fact. Personally, this theory will likely be negative, but that's just my own preference. The point is, I will see it. No one flirts with me overtly and I don't see it.

So I just thought I'd run this by the INTP women's caucus. Is it the same with you? (I ask women because I think the dynamics with men getting flirted with are different. But feel free to contribute if you have something you think applies.)
 

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I'm oblivious.

Years ago a male friend told me he liked me (in a few sentences). I figured, Of course you like me, we're friends. Later a mutual female friend alluded to the fact that male friend had told me he was interested in me romantically. I said I he had never told me that.

Now a (married) male friend keeps telling me he would fall in love with me if he wasn't married, and lately he told me he IS falling in love with me. I figure he's just blowing hot air.

Another male friend and I flirt outrageously, in a raunchy and physical way, but it's all a huge joke--I hope! Relationship-wise, I wouldn't touch him with a 10-foot pole.

If a man looks into my eyes for too long, I think he's just a little weird and/or is thinking about something and doesn't realize what he's looking at. If he compliments me, I think he's just a connoisseur of womanly attributes. Nothing personal.

I could give loads of examples, but you get the idea. A man has to say something like "Are you seeing anyone? Would you like to go for coffee [or whatever] sometime?" This is the recommended approach, and it's exactly what my penultimate boyfriend did. He was someone that a lot of people didn't like, and they liked me, and they wondered why I went out with him. Because he asked me! Nobody else asked me.

In short, they should use words, perhaps "Do you have a boyfriend," or "Do you date"--something to signal that this is where things are headed. One person, who already knew I was unattached, said, "I can't believe you don't have a boyfriend," which was nice, but it was also borderline subtle and I missed the implication. Later, when he was giving me a dancing lesson, he said he wanted to have sex with me, and I was completely blindsided. I was screaming and jumping around like a game show contestant.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Why is this only for women?
(I ask women because I think the dynamics with men getting flirted with are different. But feel free to contribute if you have something you think applies.)
Are you asking why I think it's different? Because of the social norms around being sexually overt about flirting. (Norms that may be broken, but are norms nonetheless.)
 

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When I was younger, things would start out with some kind of physical/sexual come-on, and then (usually) lead to sex, and then perhaps a relationship. But now, in my 60s, I prefer to have at least the pretense of relationship potential (with sex included), which is a bit different.

Of course I am aware that others my age might want FWB or sex only, and many want neither sex nor relationship. But I wanted to qualify my answer and point out that when I was young, I jumped right into the sex part (no complicated signals needed) and figured out the rest later.

So yeah, I knew when someone was hitting on me. Back in the day.
 

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Nope, I'm pretty oblivious. I might be momentarily suspicious, as the idea of them being interested in me is something within a broad realm of possibilities, but I wouldn't take seriously a suspicion that could be many different things in reality. People have to tell me their intentions for me to get it.
 

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I definitely notice when someone's flirting with me. However, my experience with direct flirts tend to be with guys who expect something of me or want something from me. It's not always sex, at one time there'd been a flirt who tried to get me to do his homework. I have a highly developed Ne so I can see through the façade pretty easily. But as for someone who is sweetly and respectfully interested, I honestly just think they want to be platonic. Because of the lack of romantic perceptiveness I have, I don't see a kind gesture as anything more than that. Plus, it's also impractical to assume every kind gesture is anything of the sort.
 

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I am probably the same as you. I've had one or two experiences where I found out someone liked me years earlier, but I didn't know because they didn't really show any special signs of it. But yes, it was always next to impossible for anyone to surprise me with this information.
 
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.

So I just thought I'd run this by the INTP women's caucus. Is it the same with you? (I ask women because I think the dynamics with men getting flirted with are different. But feel free to contribute if you have something you think applies.)
I have yet to notice if/when someone is interested in me, except for people that just want to fuck me and are pretty straightforward about it.

I don't know if that's a testament to how oblivious I am, or how unlovable I am. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 

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I don't know to this day. I only was given like a tip once or twice that these horrifically unattractive people with mental illnesses liked me. This was when I was young child and didn't speak to my peers. But even less than that, I never interacted with those people either to the extent that I would interact with most people.

I only knew one time with a gay guy who went on to harass me at night because I was unable to stop it. I didn't know talking about sexual freedom and pansexuality was an invitation or suggested that I liked the guy.

What I do know is that the people I have liked did not like me. The people who may have liked me were highly likely to have lost interest in me after the stage where I become out of control with inability to communicate properly or effectively. But I know that even my best shot so far was actually just an implicit friend-zone. Of course that implies that we were friends, which by common definition, no we weren't really friends it was just stagecraft. Very embarrassing.

People have to tell me otherwise I don't know. All I get is redirections and that doesn't bode well for the idea. Based on the way people have described and treated me, I'm a child not a potential mate. I don't walk with confidence and I have made people uncomfortable. I'm just going with nobody secretly liked me.

I'm more of stagecraft than a connectable person. When I am put in a place of trust, I am not particularly useful.

Flirting to me literally means playing about these things. Not being serious. Nobody flirts with me. I don't want people to flirt with me. I'm not even considered a legitimate candidate. "He's single" and referring to me as an insinuation that I would be a potential choice is extremely odd. My friend did that once and I just got a weird stare. I hope I'm seen as an asexual one day so people stop talking to me about it.
 

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I'll just have the one contribution and this sad little anecdote. I was in Nice in France with some friends and we were out partying. I met with a gorgeous Austrian girl and sat down by a fountain and just chatted with her. My friends told that they'd "be right back" to get some more drinks. That was weird, I thought, but returned to the now. Eventually, she asked if I wanted to join her to the bar. I said "Yeah sure. Hold on, where are my friends? There were supposed to be right here right now." and decided to wait for them while she and her friends left.
My friends face palmed when they got back. They had apparently noticed things I hadn't. Obvious signs.

Yeah, I'm oblivious. Curious thing is that I'm extremely perceptive of the subtleties, but not the actual direct flirting, and even if I realize it, I'll suspect a trick is behind it and try to ferret it out. As far as awareness is concerned, I believe the dynamics for genders is more or less the same, though, despite the different methods used.
If a girl gives a guy a compliment, it means nothing. It's just nice. If a girl says a guy is hot, it may say more of her friend circle than the actual girl herself. They have have "agreed upon" that fact. In fact, I'd say it's more likely that someone else in her friend circle likes you. Like I said, everything "direct" is madness. A gambit as likely as not. The only certainty you can find when someone is hitting on you is in the subtleties, like tracing her eyes or test if the unconscious body language gives anything out.
 

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I think I'm pretty observant, but according to friends I am "Madam Oblivious" so I may not be the best judge. Really, I see what is likely flirting or attraction and it gets filed away in the "People Who Are Just Playing Around and I Will Probably Never Remember Their Name" section of my head. It's funny because my picking up signals depends entirely on how into him I may be. It's far more fun when we're both into each other because I enjoy picking up those little hints and clues and putting them together.
 

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It depends, I know that some guys are intrigued or interested rn but things tend go over me head a lot in social situations in general..sometimes to the point where a friend ends up telling me years after that some guy was really into me.

If a guy asks me out then i automatically assume it's a date unless we usually hang out.

I also have the problem of misreading signals when I'm interested in someone and just assume they are if they are even friendly. It's weird. I need to figure out how to tell the difference so i don't keep making a fool out of myself. But how do I become better at reading signals? IDK no idea
 

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I have yet to notice if/when someone is interested in me, except for people that just want to fuck me and are pretty straightforward about it.

I don't know if that's a testament to how oblivious I am, or how unlovable I am. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Well, if they want to 'fuck you' then obviously there is some 'carnal connection' there ... they are obviously attracted to you, for some reason.
 

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Well, if they want to 'fuck you' then obviously there is some 'carnal connection' there ... they are obviously attracted to you, for some reason.
If someone is not interested in my mind, they are not interested in me. Anyone can open their legs, only I can be me.
 
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If someone is not interested in my mind, they are not interested in me. Anyone can open their legs, only I can be me.
For some people it kinda takes a bit of both to reach a connection, I have seen a number of people [ including myself ] even though I am not that much experienced when it comes to 'connections' sometimes it is difficult to put into words, some people do like 'smart women' in bed [ IMO they are more kinky in bed lol ].
 

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Ahem. What I mean is I have a question. Inspired by another thread. I realized that whenever someone is hitting on me, I am well aware of it. My universal map of everything definitely includes all the systems and mechanisms that people use to hit on you, and I have had such a map since I was a teenager. And the map is actually quite detailed and subtle.

Now, if they are just sweetly, respectfully in love with me, and are showing this by being nice to me and giving me lots of attention, I might miss that. It's actually likely I'll miss that. They'll have to come right out and say, "I'm sweetly, respectfully interested in you." I might even think, in an extreme example, that if they invite me to a movie, they just want someone to go with them.)
Guys can also smell instantly when another guy is into a girl, whether it be flirting or extremely subtle hints or whatever else.

The "friendzone" is a classic example of when every guy on the planet can see with astounding clarity that another guy is into a girl, while the girl has absolutely zero idea. The more obvious cases (typical 'flirting', I suppose) are fairly low-level, low IQ sorts of indicators and I think INTP guys can see it clearly too. Hence why most INTP guys don't partake in such things.

Also, as a kind of reverse version of this, I feel I can often tell when a woman is into me... But instead of me being so sure of myself, I instead go with the extreme self doubt, coupled with the recent emergence of the feminist narrative which is now telling men that interaction with women is never, ever a sign of sexual interest, and if a man perceives it that way, he is wrong. So that's me fucked.
 
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