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Discussion Starter #1
So, lately ive been watching videos and researching Jung, after learning about archetypes in one of my classes, and im pretty sure something is up with my "ego". It isnt "dead", but i am very aware of it.

Im thinking this is why i have so many anxious thoughts and mental conflicts, because i am aware of...well...my self. There are like, 2 minds arguing in my head all time, criticizing my conscious thoughts and behaviors. For example, i will think something like, "i believe i am really good at this thing", then i unconsciously think, "no your not, you just WANT to be good at it".

And i am aware of all the stupid things i do, behaviorally. Like things we all do in order to seem "normal" with our bodies, from the way I sit, to how i am walking, i am aware of in myself...

The fucked up part is, i am aware of my self, but i seem to not be able to influence my self much...my persona. I will recognize that im doing something just to seem cool or whatever, but i wont change what im doing. Thats why i know my ego is still here...It feels like i am inside a shell...I, being my consciousness. And this shell is like, torn apart, but my consciousness and true self is very solid and rigid, although i haven't seen much of it. The torn apart shell is my ego, and i know its torn apart because thats what it feels like. The persona mask that we all have. Mine is fucked up.

so...ideas?? Ive never felt normal, but this is somewhat recent. For maybe about a year or so i have felt like this. I just came out of a deep depression. Its that depression, loneliness, and anxiety that turns me into an introspective self-reflecting freak haha.
 

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You obviously have very little confidence, what do you feel makes you valuable to others?
Exactly... Haha. It would seem that I consciously think one thing about myself which my subconscious disagrees with. I can agree with myself on many things though. I have a lot of self value and know I can be valuable to others, the low self esteem comes from having ridiculously high expectations for myself. When I can't live up to these expectations, I feel like shit about myself.

But I know, consciously at least, that in order to reach these huge goals I need to take baby steps. I need to work on getting the best grades I can get and becoming more mentally disciplined.

These high expectations of myself are learned behavior and thoughts given to me by my parents. I was never good enough, had to be that best at everything, especially sports. So naturally, i am compensating for this now.

I was supposed to get drafted to the MLB two years ago, have perfect grades, and...have the biggest shoe size haha.... Those were my parents expectations of me, which are absolutely ridiculous.

The thing I value most, now that I think about it, is my desire for self improvement. All of my family members seem to lack that, and just live in a shell of ignorant bliss. Its one of the positive aspects of my temperament. The problem is that it is overwhelmed anxious thoughts and insecurities... Fuckin sucks
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Woa. I just watched a really good video about this subject, that helped me grasp the concept of living in the "now"...everythin around me seems so much more... Real, now.

All of our preset goals in life, to get a job, become rich, etc., they don't actually exist, but only in our minds. The only thing that is real, is "this", "now".

Im just staring at the outside as I sit here in my car...fuck haha, those houses weren't always there, this gravel parking lot wasn't always here.... I wonder what this all looked like when it was unaltered by humans. My kind is like, quiet now, and I have this strange sense of pity everytime I see a car or person go by.

"this" is all that matters. This now, is all that I will ever have. No external goal can replace it..I'm like, noticing things I didn't notice before. The sound of my car, the sounds of machinery. I wonder what it would sound like here without any human intervention... Damn..... Did I like, just become one with the earth or some shit like that???

...what do I do now? Everything looks so real...if that makes sense. "this" right here and now is all I'll ever need and all I will eve have. I am not lacking anything, but I have everything. I feel so whole in myself, lik I have been filled up with water. My only goal is to live an enjoy, an take things moment by moment.
 

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... but my consciousness and true self is very solid and rigid, although i haven't seen much of it. The torn apart shell is my ego, and i know its torn apart because thats what it feels like. The persona mask that we all have. Mine is fucked up.
I feel this too, especially if I'm threatened or put on defensive somehow. My ego turns into like a lead ball and I become stubborn and competitive. I thought it might be related to enneagram type. Mine is type 1, which is part of competency triad along with 3 and 5. More info on enneagram here.

Jung also made some interesting commentary about ego here, about western vs eastern perception of it.
 

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I can very much relate with how you feel, in a way. During my 'bumpy' years as a youngster I developed an 'invisible best friend' to keep me safe, but after years of developing this 'character' I eventually became the fictitious entity instead.

Like you mentioned before, I play on two opposite personalities depending on the situation. As a result, I sometimes get a little bipolar.

In spite of this however, I have been nurturing parts of myself that at one time I'd allowed to be repressed thanks to being surrounded by the closed-minded. And since I have, I've gained a lot of self-confidence.

I can happily say I've been able to remain 'emotionally balanced' for awhile now. :)
 

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Ego Death?
I think I remember having a small amount of time (milliseconds literally), where my "Ego" went catatonic.

I kept asking myself what I was doing in this particular event then all of a sudden I think "Me? There is no "me", only "it", "it" wants "it's" creation gone, "it" will do it, and "it" must, for the sake of other "its"."

Something along that line, funny considering it was just some meager bits and pieces of data.

I can only describe that feeling of third-personalization as... overwhelming? Thank god, it was only temporary, greed helped a lot. And I now wonder why many meditationists want that state forever. I know empty-feeling, but that?

That was emptier than the emptiest empty empty has ever emptied.

My point? You're empty isn't the same empty as Ego Death, just like your crazy isn't my kind of hypomania.
 

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I think you're on the cusp of true self awareness, as are a lot of people but your mind is not quiet enough to really cross over into being both aware and in control of it.

I can very much identify with this because I'm the same way.
 

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Releasing the ego


<<Love is not of the mind, it is not in the net of thought, it cannot be sought out, cultivated, cherished; it is there when the mind is silent and the heart is empty of the things of the mind>>...Jiddu Krishnamurti

Those insecurities thoughts aren't really yours , that's the ego doing its job. Something that really helps you is to learn to practice meditation. Because when you meditate you become in touch with your true-self and start seeing how the ego operates. You are already aware of the battle that exist inside your mind. All the negativity, insecurity is born from the ego and what feeds the ego is fear. In your case is fear of not been good enough because of the high expectations you have of yourself. The ego creates wants, needs and desires as a way of reducing the anxiety that fear produces. If you want to get rid or at least reduce its grasp you have first to face your fears. Once you do that you will become a free man and experience true happiness. Will change your point of view a bit, I want you to reflect about this: You are already perfect as you are...you just have to drop all those things that make you believe that you aren't.
 
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Discussion Starter #10
Good insight. Thanks people.

I was just wondering. What happens if you do find your true self? I'm so curious. What do you do afterwards? I know you just be in the moment, but obviously i cant spend my life meditating like a Buddhist monk. Do you think there are ways to apply this mental state to a western way of life?

...i know it seems impossible, because western views are based on greed , power, and other shit regarded as "sinful". Reflecting on this, I am seeing what dudes like Jesus were ACTUALLY saying. Its not just a bunch of pansy ass "love people" stuff. It must be written that way in order for average people to at least understand the general idea of shit like the golden rule, or an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
 

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Good insight. Thanks people.
...i know it seems impossible, because western views are based on greed , power, and other shit regarded as "sinful". Reflecting on this, I am seeing what dudes like Jesus were ACTUALLY saying. Its not just a bunch of pansy ass "love people" stuff. It must be written that way in order for average people to at least understand the general idea of shit like the golden rule, or an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
That's basically all life is. It's cliché but money only buys temporary and superficial happiness. Buddha, Jesus and all others preached the same things you said, but not many people want to accept it. They want to believe that others are out to get them, and that everyone judges them by the car they drive or other shit nobody ever notices.
 

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That's basically all life is. It's cliché but money only buys temporary and superficial happiness. Buddha, Jesus and all others preached the same things you said, but not many people want to accept it. They want to believe that others are out to get them, and that everyone judges them by the car they drive or other shit nobody ever notices.
It's hard when you know those teachings have been used by the rich and in-charge to keep the lower-class at bay. However, if you take a step back you see how unhappy the people up top really are, not allowing themselves to find the truth in those statements. Realistically, a nice balance is key. You need security before you can start to realize self-actualization. In the current way the world works, you need money for security. The problem is that the amount it takes to feel safe is high enough that greed starts to seep in if you're not careful. It's a balancing act and finding the right mix is harder than it's ever been.
 
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Discussion Starter #13
That's basically all life is. It's cliché but money only buys temporary and superficial happiness. Buddha, Jesus and all others preached the same things you said, but not many people want to accept it. They want to believe that others are out to get them, and that everyone judges them by the car they drive or other shit nobody ever notices.
Exactly. I took a positive psychology class last semester. It seems that we have a base level of happiness, that fluctuates. Once we get something new that we like in our lives, our "happy meter" jumps up and slowly returns to normal eventually. We always return to the base level. The key to being always happy is to constantly experience new things.
 

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The tragic tale of humanity

Good insight. Thanks people.

I was just wondering. What happens if you do find your true self? I'm so curious. What do you do afterwards? I know you just be in the moment, but obviously i cant spend my life meditating like a Buddhist monk. Do you think there are ways to apply this mental state to a western way of life?

...i know it seems impossible, because western views are based on greed , power, and other shit regarded as "sinful". Reflecting on this, I am seeing what dudes like Jesus were ACTUALLY saying. Its not just a bunch of pansy ass "love people" stuff. It must be written that way in order for average people to at least understand the general idea of shit like the golden rule, or an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
When you start to practice meditation...if you do it enough, the meditation mental state becomes more common. I started practicing meditation...think 6 month ago. Tried to do two session of 15 min every day. Eventually I started to meditate sometimes while I was walking, doing the dishes,etc. I have notice that I don't need to do these sessions anymore. My mind has adapted to the peacefulness of not having random thoughts breaking havoc in my head.

Meditation has many positive effects. One is that it increase your willpower..it actually produces visible changes on your brain. Increasing the size of the part of the brain that process rational thoughts.

Greed, power aren't sinful, the problem is that there is no real happiness in there. If you want to have a revelation..study the reward system that lies inside the mammalian/emotional part of the brain. That is the part that colors how we see the external world. Have you ever wondered why really rich people, that have enough money for a lifetime...still are working probably even more than the average joe in the street?...it is not about the money. It is about the rush/high that getting more money produces. Same thing that people that seek power. Drugs, food, alcohol, buying new things that aren't needed..all addiction activates the same pathway. We are all junkies.That's what Buddha and other wise people realized through simple observation but we have now the science to understand this ;p :

There is no greater offence than harbouring desires.
There is no greater disaster than discontent.
There is no greater misfortune than wanting more.
Lao Tzu

If you sleep,
Desire grows in you
Like a vine in the forest.
Like a monkey in the forest
You jump from tree to tree,
Never finding the fruit -
From life to life,
Never finding peace.
Buddha


The sad tale is that no matter how much you get, you will never find satisfaction. The brain starts to develop some adaptation to the drug/activity, so when you don't have it you feel down and to avoid the anxiety/sadness that it causes you get some more and you feel fine for a while but there is a catch. Because the reward system starts developing tolerance to the effects of the neurochemicals( dopamine the principal one), to get the same high/rush you have to increase the dosage of the drug/activity. As you can see there is a problem there. I dare everyone I know to find content through that path...it can't be done. You will be between cycles of depression/anxiety and high/euphoria. That's the problem with all stimulants( coffee, sugar, alcohol, recreational drugs, etc)..what goes up will go down eventually. When your reward system is hijacked by all those stimulants and activities life start to look blank without any of them. When you decided to clean yourself( will be difficult) you will at some point..as weird as this may sound get the high/rush with simple things like watching a sunrise or hugging someone that you care about. Life will be worth living.

To understand the love part that Jesus was referring you have to study oxytocin..a.k.a the cuddle hormone. It is the only substance that I am aware of that the body don't develop tolerance..the more you get..the more sensible the body become to it. It feels good for both the one that gives love and the one that receives it. Oxytocin helps control the cravings that you get when you are living the up/down cycles of a hijacked reward system. It speeds up the healing of wounds, diseases..reduces stress and so many positive effects. Meditation produces oxytocin by the way. It counterattacks the need for the stimulants...because love is what you really crave for and is the only thing that will bring satisfaction. At the end of the day.. what people truly want is to love and be love.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
It's hard when you know those teachings have been used by the rich and in-charge to keep the lower-class at bay. However, if you take a step back you see how unhappy the people up top really are, not allowing themselves to find the truth in those statements. Realistically, a nice balance is key. You need security before you can start to realize self-actualization. In the current way the world works, you need money for security. The problem is that the amount it takes to feel safe is high enough that greed starts to seep in if you're not careful. It's a balancing act and finding the right mix is harder than it's ever been.
No doubt. Especially if your young. If you get enough money to buy the world before your like 30 years old, all of your goals have been met because goals are based on money.

It must feel like beating a video game.
 

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Discussion Starter #16

<<Love is not of the mind, it is not in the net of thought, it cannot be sought out, cultivated, cherished; it is there when the mind is silent and the heart is empty of the things of the mind>>...Jiddu Krishnamurti

Those insecurities thoughts aren't really yours , that's the ego doing its job. Something that really helps you is to learn to practice meditation. Because when you meditate you become in touch with your true-self and start seeing how the ego operates. You are already aware of the battle that exist inside your mind. All the negativity, insecurity is born from the ego and what feeds the ego is fear. In your case is fear of not been good enough because of the high expectations you have of yourself. The ego creates wants, needs and desires as a way of reducing the anxiety that fear produces. If you want to get rid or at least reduce its grasp you have first to face your fears. Once you do that you will become a free man and experience true happiness. Will change your point of view a bit, I want you to reflect about this: You are already perfect as you are...you just have to drop all those things that make you believe that you aren't.
holy shit! Thats EXACTLY how my mind sounds!!! Ill check that movie out.
 

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Exactly. I took a positive psychology class last semester. It seems that we have a base level of happiness, that fluctuates. Once we get something new that we like in our lives, our "happy meter" jumps up and slowly returns to normal eventually. We always return to the base level. The key to being always happy is to constantly experience new things.
Exactly! New things day, after day, it's just sad that many people apparently can't take it, so they try ego suicide.
Just because the game was broken, they don't want to play it and throw it away like it's meaningless, highly ironic if you ask me.

But I guess games of chance does that to people, ah well. C'est La Vie.
 

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holy shit! Thats EXACTLY how my mind sounds!!! Ill check that movie out.
Revolver is an awesome movie, but I didn't like the dead give away at the end, as I long grasped the movie's intention beforehand and considered it unnecessary.

Anyway, ideally you'd reach a new plateau of contentedness and wholesomeness surpassing everything you've felt prior to that.

Still, permanently throwing your ego into shackles is technically impossible, for me anyway, it's been a constant struggle so far. The bastard just frees itself whenever you think you've got it down :mellow:
 
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