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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Good morning/afternoon/evening folks. Thanks for deciding to spend your time helping me figure myself out a bit; I'm quite aware how many of these posts there are. I'll try to make this as simple and interesting as possible.

History: I've been trying to figure out my type for quite a while now (>4 months). I've read Keirsey, studied cognitive functions, and even had a semi-professional try to type me off of a few emails. I usually end up as some bastardized version of an ENTP/ENFP/ENTJ, although the previously mentioned semi-professional seemed convinced that I'm an ESFP, for some strange reason. As such, I'd like to open up the game of unraveling my chameleon soul to you, the good people of PerC. Maybe you'll have more luck than the rest; you all seem to know what you're doing (or at least fake it well- just joking).

I borrowed a form from the sticky threads section that most people seemed to be using to give pertinent information. You can find it, along with my answers, below.

Again, thanks for choosing to play along.

1) What aspect of your personality made you unsure of your type?

I don't seem to have a dominant cognitive function. I relate most readily to the Te, Ne, Ni, Ti, and Fi descriptions, but that obviously leaves a lot of ground for guesswork. Essentially, I'm analytical but not obsessed with logical perfection; I can come up with hundreds of ideas in a day, but I also can get deeply focused on one idea or thought for a long time. I'm friendly and liked, but also disliked by a number of people. I can put on a nice social facade, but it generally breaks down if someone starts getting too close or looking too closely at my actual self. I'm driven in equal parts by my religious convictions, logical deduction, and a bastard version of efficiency-based horse-sense. Hopefully by now you see my problem.

2) What do you yearn for in life? Why?

Power, in order to have the freedom to live a self-referential life without interference from others who don't move as fast or think as deeply as I do. Also, a group of confederates who challenge me and are as smart as, or smarter than, myself.

My ideal job is a action-oriented think tank that can deliberate on inter-disciplinary real-world problems and then turn around and apply resources in an efficient and force-multiplying way to solve those problems.

3) Think about a time where you felt like you were at your finest. Tell us what made you feel that way.

Every time I come up with an elegant solution to a problem (when someone says, "I never thought about it that way") and then execute it brilliantly ("that had amazing results"). I enjoy success in the intellectual and practical realms equally, and each new level of success is my finest point.

4) What makes you feel inferior?

Someone who doesn't seem interested in my opinions, or who listens to what I have to say and gives me no visible response. If they just say "oh," look unimpressed, and turn away, then I'm going to start feeling insecure.

6) When working on a project what is normally your emphasis? Do you like to have control of the outcome?

I emphasize completion of the highest-yield tasks first, take care of the creative processes myself, and then gladly delegate the execution and boring parts to my subordinates. Then, I simply monitor the process, refine our problem-solving heuristics, and intervene when something proves to difficult for someone else to do.


8) When you want to learn something new, what feels more natural for you? (Are you more prone to be hands on, to theorize, to memorize, etc)

A big-picture focus on theory, with an exceptional memory for terms, concepts, details, and specifics. I'm not much of a hands on person. I think like a lawyer: I pull together every possible idea, historical account, and term from my memory (which is exceptional), and then apply theories in a inductive/deductive push-pull fashion until I've optimized the solution to best combine theory and fact.

9) How organized do you to think of yourself as?

My desk is immaculate, but my top drawer is a mess. Best way to describe myself, honestly.

10) How do you judge new ideas? You try to understand the principles behind it to see if they make sense or do you look for information that supports it?

Both. I start big-picture, then narrow my focus to details. I look for both factual and logical inconsistencies, and have no problem using both to tear apart and idea I find weak or lacking.

11) You find harmony by making sure everyone is doing fine and belonging to a given group or by making sure that you follow what you believe and being yourself?

Both in almost equal parts. I enjoy, but do not require, harmony, but also feel a strong compulsion to not back down when I think I have the right answer. I've been known to alternate between periods of lassiez-faire, semi-manipulative charm and dictatorial, fiery, scorched-earth campaigns in my interactions with others. It can often turn on a dime depending on how right I believe I am, how much I like the other person at that instant, and how much I instrumentally value our relationship.

12) Are you the kind that thinks before speaking or do you speak before thinking? Do you prefer one-on-one communication or group discussions?

I love group discussions, brainstorming, and thinking as I go. I dominate group conversations, and can occasionally shout down others who are more soft-spoken, although generally unintentionally.


15) How do you act when you're stressed out?

I get neurotic. I obsess over details, get worried about becoming sick, and get hyper-emotional. If cornered in that state, I either manipulate or utterly destroy others. I've hurt more than one friend immensely through outbursts when I'm stressed out. I also start questioning and debating everything as a power-play.

16) What makes you dislike the personalities of some people?

Most intensely, extreme rigidity and micro-management. I'm also not a fan of people who quote regulations, morality, or ethics as a reason for action. If its efficient and intelligent, then I won't have a problem with it. Ethics, for me, come into play in defining boundaries, not as a reasoning for a specific course of action.

18) What kind of things do pay the least attention to in your life

Taxes and other minutiae. I get everything done (everything), but I really hate having to sit down and crunch numbers or monitor basic processes. I always say, if a machine can do it then you're wasting my time.

19) How do your friends perceive you? What is wrong about their perception? ? What would your friends never say about your personality ?

People either love me or hate me. My outer ring of friends see me as the pleasant Joe-next-door type who can carry on a nice conversation and complement their new hair-style. My closer friends (who get past veneer-persona me), see me as argumentative, changeable, and either candy-smooth or brutally cold. Depends on the day, honestly. My really close friends see me as good-hearted and eccentric, if occasionally unpleasant.

No one would ever call me down-to-earth, uncontroversial, or easy to figure out. I freak people out with how quickly I seem to change from one action-schema to the next. One day I'm super pleasant, the next I'm withdrawn and cold. I don't always know why I act either way, honestly. It's not really an internal decision.

20) You got a whole day to do whatever you like. What kind of activities do you feel like doing?

In the morning, I go to the gym, lift-weights, and run. Then I order out a spinach-wrap sandwich, sit in some comfortable pajamas and watch Netflix (House of Cards and Parks and Recreation right now). Later, I pick up a book on Amazon (Anarchy, Utopia, and the State, currently), and read. Finally, I visit friends that I've neglected during the weekly grind, catch up, and talk shop. That's basically an elegantly simple, perfect weekend day for me.

I deleted a lot of questions I didn't find interesting; I apologize if that bothers anyone, especially the creator of this interesting questionnaire. Please enjoy poking around in my head, and feel free to say whatever comes to mind. I'm open to type suggestions, questions, debate, or statements of existential-horror. Poetry and interpretive dance is also acceptable.


Additionally, please forgive any grammar mistakes. I didn't have time/feel the need to proof this adequately.

You're all lovely.
 

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You are clearly a Te dominant. You are most likely an ENTJ but possibly an ESTJ.
 
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You seem to use Ne-Si and Te-Fi.
It seems pretty obvious that your Te is stronger than your Fi, so some kind of Te-type.
By that, I'd say that you're an ESTJ. But then again, your Ne seems to be stronger than your Si. So I think you're in some kind of loop. Either an ENFP in an Ne-Te-loop, but most likely an ESTJ with a Te-Ne-loop, since your Te seems stronger than your Ne. I can't really see Ni or Ti that much in this, it seems to be more of Si in the answers than any of those. Te, Ne and Fi though, are functions in ESTJs (as you surely know).
I've read Keirsey
Okey, Keirsey is good, in some ways, but be careful about it. He seems to be very steriotypical, his temperaments are already made-up, and then he tried to fit them in to MBTI. And one more thing, don't trust the online/Keirsey descriptions of ESTJs. It isn't that accurate.

Good luck in finding your type! :)
 
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You are clearly a Te dominant.
Yes!

You are most likely an ENTJ
No no no no no no no.

but possibly an ESTJ.
Yes. That's exactly what I got, too, from reading his questionnaire.


You seem to use Ne-Si and Te-Fi.
Yes!

It seems pretty obvious that your Te is stronger than your Fi, so some kind of Te-type.
Definitely.

By that, I'd say that you're an ESTJ.
Me too.

/thread


But then again, your Ne seems to be stronger than your Si.
Typical Ne tertiary. You don't see Si since it's introverted. And Ne is extraverted, so it like bombards you with Ne after Ne after Ne.

Same with Se tert, Te tert, Fe tert, . . .

So I think you're in some kind of loop. Either an ENFP in an Ne-Te-loop, but most likely an ESTJ with a Te-Ne-loop, since your Te seems stronger than your Ne.
Yes, the Te seems way too strong for me to really even consider any other type. This person really couldn't be an ENFP.

And one more thing, don't trust the online/Keirsey descriptions of ESTJs. It isn't that accurate.
Very true.


^Hands down one of my favourite types--if not my complete favourite.
 
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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
I'm not sure if anyone will see this reply, as I'm really not sure how the notification system for this website works (as evidenced by the fact that I just recently realized more people replied to this thread). One way or another, I felt compelled to post something after reading the last two comments, and after reading up a little more on cognitive functions and the like.

I really think I'm either an ESTJ or ENTJ, as stated by everyone above. I've narrowed down what I originally thought was the Ne+Ti combination of the ENTP to the workings of dominant Te. Don't ask me how I mixed those up; hindsight is 20/20. The only reason why I'm hesitant about the ESTJ designation is that there are a few things about me that are somewhat unique(ish) and have lead people to completely switch their opinions about my type before. If this changes anything or, more importantly, if anyone actually sees this, please let me know. A month is a long time for a response, and I understand if people have lost interest.

First, I have less Si and more Se than traditionally attributed to ESTJs. I enjoy money, nice clothes, nice cars, alcohol, etc, although as a secondary (see vice) concern to my work. I also have a bit of an impulsive streak that can sometimes drive big decisions that I feel most ESTJs would be more careful about. Specifically, I often overlook details and put expensive and wide-reaching plans in motion without catching obvious (minor-ish) flaws that the more detail-oriented folks in my life often catch for me. Luckily I have a few individuals that handle the basics(finances, close-reading, etc), and leave me to handle bigger concerns.

Second, I have a military background that often makes people either automatically jump to -S identifications, and specifically -Si. I talk in a specific, regimented, and often abrasive way that comes from my experiences. I also use a lexicon that throws people off, occasionally. The Si identification usually comes from the somewhat rigid, anecdotal, and detailed way I write, when that's more of a habit from writing memos/emails than a personality characteristic. Additionally, sometimes my bluster gets identified as Ne, when it is really my way of being forceful and using techniques I've learned over the years for keeping peoples' interest. This specifically impacts my writing style, as I tend to pen my words much more boisterously than I would usually say them, although I'm generally less polite and more forceful in real life.

Third, I know a lot of STJs that really hate my guts. This comes back to my tendency to buck tradition (see: completely ignore it), as I really, really, really hate a lot of the traditional things my colleagues love. In my current job, I have a reputation (usually good, sometimes disliked) for re-working systems, procedures, and ideas that most individuals consider set in stone. I'm also fairly liberal (as long as it doesn't contradict with the CORE, not cultural, tenets of my religion) and that rubs my STJ friends the wrong way. You can only quote Plato and Nietzsche, while elucidating the benefits of unchecked free-speech and societal criticism, so many times before traditionalists will start to hate your guts. This is really the main reason why I'd be hesitant to lean towards ESTJ.

Lastly, I'm very intelligent. I don't mean this in a "look at me" or a "I'm convinced I'm a unique, un-typeable snowflake" sort of way. I hate even saying it out loud, but I figured it might be helpful because some people have mentioned that I made very little sense to them until they saw my bookshelves. Do with this information what you will. I'm not completely sure if it will help anyone type me, but I do have a preference and aptitude for academia that most ESTJs don't seem to have.

I don't know if this changes anything in your analysis (or if anyone will ever read this), but I figured I might as well write out what I was thinking. In any case, it helped me formulate my own thoughts. Perhaps I am just a deluded ESTJ; maybe I'm something else. If any of you can figure it out (or just re-confirm the original type designation), I'd definitely appreciate the second opinion.

I understand that most of this post is reasons why I don't believe myself to be an ESTJ. This is because I have issues identifying with the cognitive stack, not some form of typism. I'm honestly just looking to understand myself better, not buck a stereotyped type. At the same time, it's always possible that I'm not seeing those functions in myself because they would make me an ESTJ. I'm not immune to implicit biases, and I do know a few STJs that I can't stand, so I might be fooling myself to avoid cognitively associating myself with them. I'm always open to a convincing argument, so please feel free to persuade me one way or the other, and I'll judge on the merits, not my own biases. A difficult, correct solution is always more useful than a comfortable, incorrect one. Whatever I am, I don't mean to offend any type.

Note: my previous post was written in a style designed to make it more engaging, and get people to read it. This post is closer to my natural speech and writing style.
 

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I'm not sure if anyone will see this reply, as I'm really not sure how the notification system for this website works (as evidenced by the fact that I just recently realized more people replied to this thread). One way or another, I felt compelled to post something after reading the last two comments, and after reading up a little more on cognitive functions and the like.

I really think I'm either an ESTJ or ENTJ, as stated by everyone above. I've narrowed down what I originally thought was the Ne+Ti combination of the ENTP to the workings of dominant Te. Don't ask me how I mixed those up; hindsight is 20/20. The only reason why I'm hesitant about the ESTJ designation is that there are a few things about me that are somewhat unique(ish) and have lead people to completely switch their opinions about my type before. If this changes anything or, more importantly, if anyone actually sees this, please let me know. A month is a long time for a response, and I understand if people have lost interest.
No problem, I'll do my best to answer it.

First, I have less Si and more Se than traditionally attributed to ESTJs. I enjoy money, nice clothes, nice cars, alcohol, etc, although as a secondary (see vice) concern to my work.
Is this a reason that you'd be Se?

Second, I have a military background that often makes people either automatically jump to -S identifications, and specifically -Si. I talk in a specific, regimented, and often abrasive way that comes from my experiences. I also use a lexicon that throws people off, occasionally. The Si identification usually comes from the somewhat rigid, anecdotal, and detailed way I write, when that's more of a habit from writing memos/emails than a personality characteristic.
What did you think of your time in the military? Did it come naturally?

Additionally, sometimes my bluster gets identified as Ne,
How?

when it is really my way of being forceful and using techniques I've learned over the years for keeping peoples' interest. This specifically impacts my writing style, as I tend to pen my words much more boisterously than I would usually say them, although I'm generally less polite and more forceful in real life.
That you've learnt them, it can't be just that they're a lower function, and therefore jumps out some times?

Third, I know a lot of STJs that really hate my guts. This comes back to my tendency to buck tradition (see: completely ignore it), as I really, really, really hate a lot of the traditional things my colleagues love. In my current job, I have a reputation (usually good, sometimes disliked) for re-working systems, procedures, and ideas that most individuals consider set in stone. I'm also fairly liberal (as long as it doesn't contradict with the CORE, not cultural, tenets of my religion) and that rubs my STJ friends the wrong way. You can only quote Plato and Nietzsche, while elucidating the benefits of unchecked free-speech and societal criticism, so many times before traditionalists will start to hate your guts. This is really the main reason why I'd be hesitant to lean towards ESTJ.
In what way/why do they hate your guts? What kind of traditions and traditional things?
That you try to re-work systems is just an indication for Te, that you want things to run as smooth as possible. Regarding you being liberal, I've been on the far left side, I've been libertarian and pro a night-watchman state. Where you stand politically doesn't decide your type, and neither the other way around, there's too many factors that plays in to this.

Lastly, I'm very intelligent. I don't mean this in a "look at me" or a "I'm convinced I'm a unique, un-typeable snowflake" sort of way. I hate even saying it out loud, but I figured it might be helpful because some people have mentioned that I made very little sense to them until they saw my bookshelves. Do with this information what you will. I'm not completely sure if it will help anyone type me, but I do have a preference and aptitude for academia that most ESTJs don't seem to have.
Even though it's great that you're intelligent, it's completely uninteresting in typing. Any type can be intelligent, and any time can be academic. True, the internet society often states otherwise, but just disregard that.

I just want to empathize what I said last time, do not look too much on the online descriptions, they are bad. Simple as that. If you're unsure, talk to some of the ESTJs here and see how we actually are, ask questions that makes you unsure. The only way to be completely sure of something is to doubt it first.
 
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Discussion Starter #7
I really appreciate the response. In my previous post I'd just tried to lay out some things that I thought MIGHT influence how someone typed me. I included them because people who have previously tried to type me (including the ones who thought I was an ENFP/ESFP) found such information relevant before. My understanding of cognitive functions is limited to what I found on this website. I've stayed away from online descriptions for a while now, and have simply tried to figure out my cognitive function stack. If what I said above doesn't necessarily change anything, then write that off to my own lack of knowledge. I'm more than willing to admit when I'm not an expert at something, and this is one of those cases. If you think there is information that would be relevant, and that I haven't already given, please let me know. Please also let me know if I'm just being stubborn and should drop it.

I've screwed around on the ESTJ site and read through a large number of their threads. I found that I only partially related to a lot of what was said. I feel like it came back to Si. I don't see it in myself. Whenever they were discussing the functions of Te, Ne, or Fi on the forum, I totally related to their experiences, but whenever Si came up, they lost me. I also spent a fair amount of time on the ENTJ forum and had the same problem. I related strongly to their descriptions of Te and Fi, but less so to Se and Ni. I can be a bit of a space cadet, and the most constant complaint about me throughout my life has been my knack for missing details and overlooking things that I really should have noticed (such as missing items, bad calculations, etc). I always make up for that with my ability to lead and move the ball forward, but it's still something I've had to fight. If anything, I've developed a stronger sensing side over time out of necessity, but it took a long time for me to focus on the real world and get outside my head. Si and Se have a concrete focus that I just don't see in myself.

In response to your other question, about the military, it really didn't come naturally to me. Too much bureaucracy and too little freedom. I just really didn't get the whole senior/subordinate thing, and occasionally got the trouble for talking to a CPT the way you're supposed to talk to a PFC. I judge people on their merits, so when it comes to just putting my head down and executing someone's flawed plan, even if they have rank, I just really didn't get that. I also didn't get the focus on HOW I got my job done. I'm a results-oriented person. I got results, and expected people to be happy, instead of getting pissed off that I didn't do it the way they told me to. Being a cog in a machine didn't jive well with me, and I took every opportunity to grab power that wasn't supposed to be mine. This was easier once I got subordinates.

This isn't to say that I didn't excel at the military life. It made sense in a way, and the structure didn't bother me once I figured out how to play it. I knew how to negotiate the structure to get where I needed to go, and picked up positions that gave me a lot of freedom and little oversight. Most importantly, I was competent, so I got away with not being the perfect-uniform GI Joe type. I found my niche, and that let me excel.

In regards to traditions, I generally mean policies, regulations, and ways of doing things. In the military it was parades, regulations, and rank. I was very vocal about how much I thought all of those things were outdated. Excessive focus on the past limits our ability to adapt in the present. Essentially, I enjoy change. I find that change usually makes systems more effective, so I always try to encourage people to try out new ways of doing things and new ideas. It's been the single greatest contributor to my success. A lot of people hated me for that, especially because I'd tend to do it without them noticing for a while.

Let me know if I can answer anything else.
 
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