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Discussion Starter #1
So I've noticed that for some reason President Lincoln is consistently typed as either INTP or ENTP. However, as much as I'd love to claim him as one of my own, it doesn't seem right to me at all. The biggest reason for this is that I am all but certain he was a primary Ni user. The man literally predicted his own death in a dream, and had another recurring dream that took place on the eve of nearly every major event and battle of the Civil War. If that's not Ni, I don't know what is. The man seemed to just "know" things on a subconscious level in a way I could only dream of. Moreover, auxiliary Te makes a lot of sense as well. Watching the movie Lincoln, it is clear that the man knew how to make a goal or idea a reality, and knew how to be an excellent leader and organizer. He also seemed to have very strong personal values and convictions, not so much that they would cloud his judgement, but enough to form a strong moral compass, so tertiary Fi makes sense as well. For instance, he personally hated slavery with a passion, yet he was still initially willing to compromise on the issue with the South in order to preserve the Union and prevent war, showing an ability to make tough decisions as a leader and distinguish between his own beliefs and what was best for the nation. Almost everything about him screams INTJ. So I have to wonder: Why does everyone seem to think he is an xNTP? Would an xNTP (other than perhaps Thomas Jefferson) even have enough follow-through and drive to be elected President in the first place? What is it that I am missing here? Or am I right and Lincoln was totally an INTJ? Discuss.
 
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There's a thread about him here. Looks like Sparky's the only person who agrees with you on him being INTJ. Ouch.
Thank you for linking that thread, because I tend to Google before creating a new one, just in case someone already made a similar thread.

I am sure many others agree Lincoln was INTJ, just that they have not spoken out about it.
 

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Thank you for linking that thread, because I tend to Google before creating a new one, just in case someone already made a similar thread.

I am sure many others agree Lincoln was INTJ, just that they have not spoken out about it.
I asked you why you thought he was INTJ in that other thread, and you never responded.
 

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I asked you why you thought he was INTJ in that other thread, and you never responded.
We have already argued about typing based on looks. If you want the details, read what Debaser has to say, or come up with how someone is INTJ, and support that with evidence from Lincoln's life.
 

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For instance, he personally hated slavery with a passion, yet he was still initially willing to compromise on the issue with the South in order to preserve the Union and prevent war, showing an ability to make tough decisions as a leader and distinguish between his own beliefs and what was best for the nation.
Lincoln disliked slavery, and he disliked even more the thought of an Union breakup, so he did have stronger, inner convictions or values.

Would an xNTP (other than perhaps Thomas Jefferson) even have enough follow-through and drive to be elected President in the first place?
Thomas Jefferson was likely INTJ as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
There's a thread about him here. Looks like Sparky's the only person who agrees with you on him being INTJ. Ouch.
Well now I'm thinking he's XXXX and that the man broke the MBTI system.

But seriously, I just KNOW he was Ni dominant, and I will continue to think so until I hear some solid evidence to the contrary. I'm willing to entertain INFJ, but I have serious doubts about any kind of P. Come on people. Where's the discussion? I want some analytical reasoning and armchair psychology here. Even that old thread you linked to had practically no real discussion.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Lincoln disliked slavery, and he disliked even more the thought of an Union breakup, so he did have stronger, inner convictions or values.
I'm aware. I was just using that as an example of his making a tough decision that was going to bother him no matter what.

Thomas Jefferson was likely INTJ as well.
Hmm... It seems like the further back in history we go, the harder it is to be sure of stuff like that. But from what I've read about Thomas Jefferson, he was almost certainly an Ne user of some kind, and some of his beliefs and behaviors fit more in line with the typical INTP than INTJ. However, I've heard some stuff that makes me consider the possibility that he was a J. But because of that Ne, and I'm guessing Ti as well, I doubt it.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Hang on a second...

OP, you're typing Abraham Lincoln based on a dramatised version of him that you saw in a film?
Nope. I've seen the film, yes, but I am something of a Civil War buff who has read a number of non-fiction books, taken classes, all sorts of things on Lincoln and the time period. I was using the film, which is pretty accurate by the way, as a popular example.
 

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The lack of responsiveness in this thread has proven me right as far as I am concerned. Lincoln = INTJ. OK that's settled now. Oh, screw it. Come on people, I want to ARGUE. It's no fun to be right if no one even puts up a challenge.
 

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Probably a thinking type. I would guess Jung's Ti dom or maybe Te dom if an extravert. He was a vocal intellectual.
 

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Often typed INTP, and I agree...

I often cite his second inaugural address in support of this. Particularly in how he discusses the war and slavery. It's an Fe approach. Passive aggressive jabs based on face-value judgments. I don't expect an INTJ to be so manipulative:

President Abraham Lincoln said:
One-eighth of the whole population were colored slaves, not distributed generally over the Union, but localized in the southern part of it. These slaves constituted a peculiar and powerful interest. All knew that this interest was somehow the cause of the war. To strengthen, perpetuate, and extend this interest was the object for which the insurgents would rend the Union even by war, while the Government claimed no right to do more than to restrict the territorial enlargement of it. Neither party expected for the war the magnitude or the duration which it has already attained. Neither anticipated that the cause of the conflict might cease with or even before the conflict itself should cease. Each looked for an easier triumph, and a result less fundamental and astounding. Both read the same Bible and pray to the same God, and each invokes His aid against the other. It may seem strange that any men should dare to ask a just God's assistance in wringing their bread from the sweat of other men's faces, but let us judge not, that we be not judged. The prayers of both could not be answered. That of neither has been answered fully. The Almighty has His own purposes. "Woe unto the world because of offenses; for it must needs be that offenses come, but woe to that man by whom the offense cometh." If we shall suppose that American slavery is one of those offenses which, in the providence of God, must needs come, but which, having continued through His appointed time, He now wills to remove, and that He gives to both North and South this terrible war as the woe due to those by whom the offense came, shall we discern therein any departure from those divine attributes which the believers in a living God always ascribe to Him? Fondly do we hope, fervently do we pray, that this mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away. Yet, if God wills that it continue until all the wealth piled by the bondsman's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said "the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether."
An INTJ would be more blunt and sincere than this. An INTJ would call evil evil and see this beating around the bush that Lincoln does as pandering, calculated, and insincere. Lincoln is using convoluted, passive logic to slip jabs in. INTJ doesn't play those games.

EDIT: Man alive... rereading that quote of his. That is brutal and so Ti/Fe. You have to unravel what he said. A true lawyer. But you realize he is saying that the devastation of America in the war, and particularly the South, is the retribution of God against them for slavery. But the way he puts it... it's so slippery. "I am not saying that God is smiting you for your sins right now. I would never say that. But, you are being smote...and if it were God, it would be for your sins.. and you'd deserve it. Hypothetically. Just saying."
 
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He didn't see his death in a dream, he had a slight hallucination from being tired and saw himself being with two faces in the mirror (it might have been multiple times, or a few times in one sitting). In fact it was his wife who thought that the two-faces meant he wouldn't live past the second term. At any rate, it wasn't Ni.

Compromise on strongly held views would be the exact opposite of Fi, and he actually hated using his authority in a given situation. In fact a lot of people from his youth thought he was lazy.

The image of an intellectual who compromises and who people thought was lazy is not the image of an INTJ.
 

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He didn't see his death in a dream, he had a slight hallucination from being tired and saw himself being with two faces in the mirror (it might have been multiple times, or a few times in one sitting). In fact it was his wife who thought that the two-faces meant he wouldn't live past the second term. At any rate, it wasn't Ni.

Compromise on strongly held views would be the exact opposite of Fi, and he actually hated using his authority in a given situation. In fact a lot of people from his youth thought he was lazy.

The image of an intellectual who compromises and who people thought was lazy is not the image of an INTJ.
I also think it is funny that having a vision of one's own death would be linked to Ni. It's sorta paradoxical. Thinking you can mystically predict your own death may or may not speak to Ni - but succeeding in doing it is either coincidence or precognition... the latter of which Ni does not possess outside of fiction. No one can mystically predict anything. What Ni actually does is, thankfully, not supernatural.

I'd believe INTJ, he was too nice to be an INTP :tongue:
Wait, is that sarcasm?

Are INTPs not nice? Bill Nye the Science Guy isn't nice!? INTPs are one stop shopping for hugs and fun, my friend.
 
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I also think it is funny that having a vision of one's own death would be linked to Ni. It's sorta paradoxical. Thinking you can mystically predict your own death may or may not speak to Ni - but succeeding in doing it is either coincidence or precognition... the latter of which Ni does not possess outside of fiction. No one can mystically predict anything. What Ni actually does is, thankfully, not supernatural.
Lol INxJs don't have psychic powers(!)?
 
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