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I think if people are holding onto such things for an extended period of time, that they should address it.
Do you mean that the responsibility is on the one who received the slight rather than the actual aggressor? I think that if someone is well aware of their actions (as in, the only exception is a mentally challenged person or another disorder involving lack of empathy), they should be held in contempt regardless of whom their words were directed at. You at least appear to agree with the concept over the last few pages, since you had no issue stepping up for Rinnie in this case.

My overall point was that you can't arbitrarily choose when you (generic) want to be antagonistic/trolling, and when you want to act mature/straightforward; and simultaneously expect others to comply when the mood shifts. I've heard your advice and my own response to you (personal), regarding what I'm observing here and a variety of other threads, is to figure out in advance which you want to use with whom, or, simply accept that you will be at the center of much interpersonal conflict for the rest of your life - since this particular type of interaction does not allow for solid, stable relationships.
 

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QUEEN PEEN
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Do you mean that the responsibility is on the one who received the slight rather than the actual aggressor? I think that if someone is well aware of their actions (as in, the only exception is a mentally challenged person or another disorder involving lack of empathy), they should be held in contempt regardless of whom their words were directed at. You at least appear to agree with the concept over the last few pages, since you had no issue stepping up for Rinnie in this case.

My overall point was that you can't arbitrarily choose when you (generic) want to be antagonistic/trolling, and when you want to act mature/straightforward; and simultaneously expect others to comply when the mood shifts. I've heard your advice and my own response to you (personal), regarding what I'm observing here and a variety of other threads, is to figure out in advance which you want to use with whom, or, simply accept that you will be at the center of much interpersonal conflict for the rest of your life - since this particular type of interaction does not allow for solid, stable relationships.
You're only further perpetuating my point. You've obviously been holding on to a lot of shit that I had no idea bothered you. My intention is never to hurt another person. I don't feel that I'm an "aggressor" but if you feel that way about people, it would really fare you better to talk it out with that person directly and see if something can't be worked out, just like we're doing now.
 

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There have been a few threads on abusive intimate relations. I thought I'd post some warning signs and definitions. Domestic Abuse is not solely confined to one sex over the other. Domestic violence is abuse between intimate partners, where one partner is using different types of abuse (ie, emotional, physical,) to gain power and control over his or her partner.

Warning Signs
Below is a list of behaviors that are seen in abusive intimate partners. The more signs the person has, the more likely the person has a battering personality and a potential for relationship violence. Initially batterers excuse abusive behavior as signs of love and concern (which can very be flattering), however, as the relationship progresses these abusive behaviors become more controlling, abusive and violent.

1. Jealousy: At the beginning of a relationship, an abuser will say that jealousy is a sign of love. Jealousy has nothing to do with love. It's a sign of insecurity and possessiveness.
Signs: Questions who their partner talks to. Accusations of flirting. Complains of how much time is spent with others. Frequent phone calls throughout the day. Unexpected visits. Unpredictable behavior. Checking car mileage. Asking friends to watch or "spy" on their partner. Falsely accuses partner is cheating on them.

2. Controlling Behavior: At the onset of the relationship, the abuser will say that this behavior is because of concern for their partner's safety, or to guide them in good decision-making and time management.
Signs: Closely questions everything their partner does. Will not allow the partner to make personal decisions about the house, clothing and/or going to church. Anger if the partner is "late" coming back from the store or an appointment. May keep all the money and/or make the partner ask permission to leave the house or room. Will tell their partner what do, what to wear, what to say, etc.

3. Fast Moving Relationships: Many domestic violence survivors dated or knew their abuser for less than six months before they were engaged or started living together.
Signs: Relationship starts like a whirlwind, "love at first sight". Excessive flattery such as "you're the only person I can talk to" and "I love you more than anyone in the world". Abusive partner may state they need someone desperately. Pressure for commitment.

4. Unrealistic Expectations: Abusive partners are dependent on relationships for all of their needs; this is not healthy. No relationship is perfect and no one person can realistically be there "all the time."
Signs: Expects partner to be a perfect partner/spouse, parent, lover, and friend. May say things like "if you love me, I'm all you need, you're all I need." Expects partner to take care of everything emotionally for them. Expects their partner to perform all household tasks.

5. Isolation: The abuser tries to cut-off resources in effort to remove opportunities for escape and systems of support. Without supportive friends with which to "trouble talk" about relationships, it can be hard to recognize signs of abuse. Resources include work or school, transportation, family and friends.
Signs: Friends are not allowed by the abuser; these relationships are viewed as unfaithful. Friendships are ridiculed or sabotaged. Accuses supportive friends to be "causing trouble." Will not allow visits to or from partner's family. Moves away from partner's family and friends. Taking away the phone or the car. Insists their partner stop going to work or to school.

6. Blames Others for Problems: Abusers do not take responsibility for any negative situation; instead they will find someone else or some external factor to blame for the problem.
Signs: Mistakes are the fault the partner. Irresponsibility. Chronic unemployment. Says, "Someone is always doing me wrong" or "out to get me". Says their partner upsets them or keeps them from concentrating. Abuser blames their partner for practically anything and everything that goes wrong.

7. Blames Other for Feelings: Abusers often do not understand or want to feel any negative emotions. When an abuser feels hurt, anger, or fear, they will want to find someone to blame to make the feeling go away.
Signs: Says "you make me mad", "you're hurting me by not doing what I ask", and "I can't help being angry." Uses feelings to manipulate their partner.

8. Hypersensitivity: Abusers can be extra sensitive and may explode when they suspect an attack.
Signs: Easily insulted. Claims feeling "hurt" when really feels anger. Takes the slightest set back as personal attacks. Will "rant and rave" about the injustice of things that have happened, things that are really just part of living like being asked to help with chores.

9. Cruelty to Animals or Children: Someone who punishes children and or animals brutally or is insensitive to their pain or suffering. This is a red flag warning and a message that they could hurt people too.
Signs: Expects children to be capable of doing things far beyond their ability (whips a two year old for wetting their diaper). Hurts or abuses animals. Teases children until they cry. Hurts or kills their partner's pets. Does want children to eat at the table or expects them to stay in their room all evening away from adults. 60 % of abusers, who beat their female partner, will also beat their children.

10. "Playful" use of Force in Sex: Media has displayed forceful sex as "sexy," however, it shows unhealthy desire for power and control over one's partner. Sex is about intimacy and mutual consent. It is against the law to force someone into any sexual act.
Signs: Likes to throw down or restrain partner during sex. Wants to act out sexual fantasies where the partner is helpless. Ideas of "rape" excite them. Not concerned whether their partner wants to have sex or not. Sulks or uses anger to manipulate partner into having sex. Starts having sex with partner while partner is sleeping. Demands sex when partner is ill or tired.

11. Verbal Abuse: Abuse is not only physical. Abusers will often criticize and demean their partners.
Signs: Says cruel and hurtful things. Constantly degrades their partner. Curses. Belittles accomplishments. Says their partner is stupid and incapable of functioning without them. Very critical about everything.

12. Rigid Gender Roles: Abusers will use gender roles to restrict and control their partners.
Signs: Abusers see the opposite sex as inferior to them, less intelligent, and unable to be a whole person without them. For example, some abusers expect their partners to serve and obey them in all things, even things that are criminal in nature. Abusers may restrict their partners from working or going to school.

13. Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde: This is a reference to a fictional character that had both a "good" and "evil" side.
Signs: Sudden changes in mood, a "roller coaster of emotions." Explosiveness. One-minute the abuser is nice and the next minute there is an explosion.

14. Past Battering: If someone has a history of violent relationships, they are likely to abuse again (unless the abuser seeks intervention). Situational circumstances do not make a person have an abusive personality.
Signs: Many abusers have hit partners in the past. Abusers reason that past abuse was because "my partner made me do it." Relatives or ex-partners may admit past abuse.

15. Threats of Violence: Threats are meant to control and manipulate. Threats can also be illegal.
Signs: Threatens, "I'll slap your mouth off", "I'll kill you", or "I'll break your neck". Excuses threats saying, "everybody talks like that."

16. Breaking or Striking Objects: Used as a punishment, to terrorize and threaten the partner into submission.
Signs: Beats on tables with fists. Throws objects near their partner. Breaks partner's special possessions.

17. Force during an Argument: Arguments and discussions are a natural part of all relationships, but force or restraint changes an ordinary argument into possible abuse
Signs: Holding a partner down. Physically restraining partner from leaving the room and saying "you're going to listen to me". Pushing or shoving. Cornering partner against a wall.


Types of Abuse/QUOTE]

Most of these sounds like my mom, minus the sexual relationship thing obviously.
 

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A few more possible warning signs that at first don't seem like an abusers behavior at all:

* Hits him/her self. Thats is a sign of repressed aggression. The anger is in there and is finding a way out. I don't exactly know how does it go - is it a part of the manipulation process, is it really just the beginning of letting the anger out, but you should be vary when a person has that in themselves to be violent towards themselves.

* compliments and words of affirmation that are actually used as a backwards emotional manipulation. For instance - no one will ever love you as much as I do. While it may feel flattering at first - notice that the same compliment installs fear in you and a belief that there is no one better for you than that person.

* when they need you. A need for something is when there is a hole, a void that needs to be filled. Once a person has found that someone to fill the void with, they extremely fear losing it. They become possessive, jealous, threatened by you having a life outside of them, because in a way their survival is dependent on you. They NEED you - they can't live without you - and they will do whatever it takes to keep you around, for instance - installing more fear with threats, etc.

*Bashes and judges your friends and the people close to you. They are trying to get you to not trust the people around you. They belittle their capabilities and their intentions. They want to make you feel like you have no one worthwile in your life BUT them.
 

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People active in this thread - what do you think:
Is the tough love the right strategy when talking to domestic abuse victims? Such as - don't let them complain, they were weak, they should know not to be weak...
Or should there be less judgment so victims aren't afraid of being shamed and would speak up? However that way creating the pity train and almost congratulating their weakness?
 

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MOTM Nov 2010
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Discussion Starter #389
People active in this thread - what do you think:
Is the tough love the right strategy when talking to domestic abuse victims? Such as - don't let them complain, they were weak, they should know not to be weak...
Or should there be less judgment so victims aren't afraid of being shamed and would speak up? However that way creating the pity train and almost congratulating their weakness?
It's not your job to judge the victim. When they decide to leave, they will leave. It has taken many survivors up to 40 tries before they leave for good.

All you can be is empathetic, an ear for someone else to not feel so alone and isolated while going through their tough decisions. However it is important you set your own boundaries as to how much you have within your power to be there for someone else. But just know "tough love" won't work. Expecting a certain outcome will never work when dealing with others. You can't control others. Also, coming across as judgmental will usually get a person to close up and not turn to you or others.

That said, I feel like I fed a troll.
 

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It's not your job to judge the victim. When they decide to leave, they will leave. It has taken many survivors up to 40 tries before they leave for good.

All you can be is empathetic, an ear for someone else to not feel so alone and isolated while going through their tough decisions. However it is important you set your own boundaries as to how much you have within your power to be there for someone else. But just know "tough love" won't work. Expecting a certain outcome will never work when dealing with others. You can't control others. Also, coming across as judgmental will usually get a person to close up and not turn to you or others.

That said, I feel like I fed a troll.
Ahahh. No, don't worry. Not a troll. I've actually been a victim. Just wondering how to look at it.

Sorry to have confused you :D thank you for your comment!
 

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QUEEN PEEN
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People active in this thread - what do you think:
Is the tough love the right strategy when talking to domestic abuse victims? Such as - don't let them complain, they were weak, they should know not to be weak...
Or should there be less judgment so victims aren't afraid of being shamed and would speak up? However that way creating the pity train and almost congratulating their weakness?
I'm not going to lie, I have a hard time feeling sorry for people that choose to stay in such a relationship. That said, I try to be very tender with such people regardless. The power of suggestion is great. If they make excuses and find reasons as to why they "can't" do this or that when you give suggestions that would help them, then chances are, they don't actually want help. They just want to bitch and possibly make other people feel sorry for them. I won't feed into the pity party though. I'm honest with them... I don't sugarcoat it or anything. Just talk sense to them. And again, if they are repulsed when you try to help, chances are that they don't want help. At that point, it's not up to us to force them to make the right decisions. They have to decide they're sick of it before anything actually changes. Until they're sick of it, they'll keep enduring. Their stupidity is not my problem.
 

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Lotus Jester
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People active in this thread - what do you think:
Is the tough love the right strategy when talking to domestic abuse victims? Such as - don't let them complain, they were weak, they should know not to be weak...
Or should there be less judgment so victims aren't afraid of being shamed and would speak up? However that way creating the pity train and almost congratulating their weakness?
Abuse survivors - esp. emotional abuse survivors have generally had their innate wisdom and logic severely denigrated at some point in their lives. This is usually by the abuser but many abuse survivors have a prior history of doubting the validity of their own perceptions and are therefore; easily gaslighted by abusers. What they need most is to be listened to and have there natural instincts of self-preservation validated.
 

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MOTM Jan 2015
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Abuse survivors - esp. emotional abuse survivors have generally had their innate wisdom and logic severely denigrated at some point in their lives. This is usually by the abuser but many abuse survivors have a prior history of doubting the validity of their own perceptions and are therefore; easily gaslighted by abusers. What they need most is to be listened to and have there natural instincts of self-preservation validated.
!

So well said.
 

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I'm not going to lie, I have a hard time feeling sorry for people that choose to stay in such a relationship. That said, I try to be very tender with such people regardless. The power of suggestion is great. If they make excuses and find reasons as to why they "can't" do this or that when you give suggestions that would help them, then chances are, they don't actually want help. They just want to bitch and possibly make other people feel sorry for them. I won't feed into the pity party though. I'm honest with them... I don't sugarcoat it or anything. Just talk sense to them. And again, if they are repulsed when you try to help, chances are that they don't want help. At that point, it's not up to us to force them to make the right decisions. They have to decide they're sick of it before anything actually changes. Until they're sick of it, they'll keep enduring. Their stupidity is not my problem.
You’re missing the worst aspect of abuse: the psychological manipulation that twists things in the abused person’s mind into thinking she’s worthless and incapable of surviving without him. I was just reading earlier that it’s common for people to side with an abuser and lend him support and all but ignore the abused. This is pretty crappy. You might want to consider siding with the person who not only is taking a beating but is having her head fucked with and feels completely powerless, versus the power hungry piece of shit who thinks nothing of ruining someone else’s life for his own benefit. I mean really. Guessing you also think all addicts can just kick their habit using willpower, and if not then they are too weak and not worth your time? Yikes. With friends like you who needs enemies.
 

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QUEEN PEEN
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You’re missing the worst aspect of abuse: the psychological manipulation that twists things in the abused person’s mind into thinking she’s worthless and incapable of surviving without him. I was just reading earlier that it’s common for people to side with an abuser and lend him support and all but ignore the abused. This is pretty crappy. You might want to consider siding with the person who not only is taking a beating but is having her head fucked with and feels completely powerless, versus the power hungry piece of shit who thinks nothing of ruining someone else’s life for his own benefit. I mean really.Guessing you also think all addicts can just kick their habit using willpower, and if not then they are too weak and not worth your time? Yikes. With friends like you who needs enemies.
You clearly know not to whom you speak.
 

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duh. it’s the internet and you’re incognito. on purpose. not sure why the comment though, feel free to elaborate tough guy/girl.
If I have to guess it’s because you enjoy abusing others.





So someone says something you disagree with and now your calling them an abuser.

Is this what you mean by filling someones head with crap?

Call them names and make them feel shitty until they "come round to your way of thinking"?
 

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QUEEN PEEN
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duh. it’s the internet and you’re incognito. on purpose. not sure why the comment though, feel free to elaborate tough guy/girl.
If I have to guess it’s because you enjoy abusing others.

Are you actually interested in making conversation? This last post of yours was too ironic for me to really be able to tell. Just let me know.
 
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