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How are you doing caregivers?

The reason i`m opening this thread is that i have an abusive ESFJ mother (I made her take the test) and she has been trying to destroy my free-will and self-confidence all the time.

The things she does:

1 - She tries to control me

She always tries to guilt trip me like "you are such a psycho for making me feel this bad" and when i tell her that she is being too sensitive she just starts going into rage mode (and i just get up and go to my room and lock the door not talking to her again for days).She always tells me what i should do,What i should wear,I should be more sensitive etc.) and when i tell her that i dont value emotional decisions but i undersand her she just flips off (seriously do ESFJ`s have a sense of self-awareness?) and she is never tired of making drama and trying to get everyone to switch to her side.

We were discussing about improvements she could make to her room and she just said jokingly "did you find my dildo or something?" (WTF?!) i told her that i`m not comfortable talking about her sex toys and she just started screaming at me "why are you being so mean?why are you so blah blah blah"

2 - She made my sister go against me

My sister being the ENFJ she always tries to suck up to her,make her feel like she`s in control etc.I had a long talk with her about how important is her freedom and gave her logical (and quasi-emotional) reasons why she should draw boundaries to the control my mom has over her.I`ve always cared my sister and protected her through my childhood and now my sister doesn`t want me to talk to her anymore because i upset her dear mother.I must admit i felt betrayed as i tried my entire life to keep her away from the emotional abuse my mother provokes on her.


3 - She gives people she barely knows big amounts of money to make herself look like someone important

My step-father`s family is full of ex-robbers and simple beggers and my mom just circles these lazy bums around her and sweet-talk to them,then gives them at least 50-100 dollars after the bums tell her how great she is,how nice she is,how beautiful she is etc (she is simply paying people to give her validation)



1 week ago i just couldn`t keep my emotions inside me anymore (after all these years of being beaten up and told off) and what i did was just go up to her and tell her that she has failed as a mother and a protector (being separated from my dad my mom is the only one that gives us food,clothes etc.) and i `cant stand her incompetence anymore.All she did was lose huge amounts of money while being pricked by others for money and doing her best to feel like she has control over us.

When i tell her that i love her (which comes out in an awkward voice) she just tells me that i`m lying.

Now the question:

How do i keep her away from me and my children (when i`ll have) as i move out?

Is there any chance i might make her less abusive and more loving?(the only way i can continue talking to her.)
 

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Rebel without a cause
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I'm guessing that you're still fairly young, but denying your future children to meet their grandmother is very selfish, your children has nothing to do with your personal dispute with your mother.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
denying your future children to meet their grandmother is very selfish


if that means that they`ll grow emotionally healthy,then i`d be happy to be salfish.

I want to protect them from her mental and psyhical abuse.I remember our neighboor leaving their kids for like 3 days at my mothers care and she simply beat the shit out of them.I know she won`t be able to control herself.
 

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You need to read "Toxic Parents" by Susan Forward
Amazon.com: Toxic Parents (9780553814828): Susan Forward: Books

And I also suggest reading "Emotional Blackmail" by Susan Forward
Amazon.com: Emotional Blackmail: When the People in Your Life Use Fear, Obligation, and Guilt to Manipulate You (9780060928971): Susan Forward: Books - It's about how to set up boundaries and apply healthy techniques to people who try to control you through guilt and manipulation.
Thanks to these links. I'm gonna find and buy those in bookstore.
 
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@debugger - I have an ESFJ mother and an INTP father.

My mom is controlling but not abusive.

Your mom attracts sycophants and physically abuses people? You should get away from her as soon as possible as that is not a healthy environment to be in.
 

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I have also a mother who is a control-freak in everything (clothes, spending, life-decisions, etc.) She is abusive in a way. She's an ISTJ and ever since I was born, I never knew what peace meant until I moved out. Because of our TJness, you'd imagine how many fights we have had (verbal and sometimes physical). We're not good at anger management especially she who is very domineering and won't listen to anybody but her own. She denied so many of my material needs and experience I know she could have afford. And when me and someone had a fight, my mother would thought that it was my fault without examining first what has really happened. She always thought of me as the bad child. Up to now she still wants to exert her control over me by interfering with my career-decision (maybe so I could give her money in return). She tried so many guilt-tripping tactics like, "If you move out, don't forget us. You can't reach your destination if you don't look back." Meaning, 'You won't be successful in your life if you don't give gratitude to the people who raised you.') For her, supporting parents through their old age is a must if you're a good child. And she user this tactics so I won't forget her. I think she already knows that if I move out of her house and her life, I won't give a damn about her, that's why she keep on calling through phone, but most of the time I don't answer. It's not that I hate her. I'm just irritated. I just want her out of my life forever with no attachments whatsoever. I only have gratitude for her, but love no. I don't love her honestly. Maybe I care for her but I don't love her. My father who is an INTJ I guess, is an ideal father. He is not a miser. He will give what you want without spoiling you. He supports your intellectual stimulation. He's the kind of father everyone likes to have because most kids have drunken parents, their dads have vices (alcohol, drugs), sometimes not responsible enough, and of course the caring issue that most fathers have with their children. But with my father, I didn't experience any of those because he is too introverted. And he's really so protective if some kids are being obnoxious with us siblings. I wish I had spend more time with my father than with my mother. I could have been a person I ought to be. I'm just a wasted INTJ that has great potentials but just blocked because of a selfish mother, who didn't support and understand what's best for my development.
 

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Hi there,

I mean you no personal disrespect (I often have to lead with that), but it's time that you hear (read) something to bring you back down to earth;

1 - She tries to control me
Yep, you are her child and, based on your writing style, are not an adult yet. It's her job to keep you from spinning out of control.

2 - She made my sister go against me
Sounds like sibling rivalry. It happens. You'll get over it.

3 - She gives people she barely knows big amounts of money to make herself look like someone important
What she does with her money is not your business. You live under her roof and eat her food. She pays the bills.

Honestly, nobody here really knows your situation and there's always 2 sides to every story. I'm sure some of what you wrote above is true and some of it is a misunderstanding between you and your family members.

When I see things like this:
How do i keep her away from me and my children (when i`ll have) as i move out?
it makes me think that you had a bad day and are just letting off some steam.

Take a deep breath, go back and look at the situation with fresh eyes. It's likely not as bad as it sounded when you wrote that :kitteh:

- ZDD
 

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I have also a mother who is a control-freak in everything (clothes, spending, life-decisions, etc.) She is abusive in a way. She's an ISTJ and ever since I was born, I never knew what peace meant until I moved out. Because of our TJness, you'd imagine how many fights we have had (verbal and sometimes physical). We're not good at anger management especially she who is very domineering and won't listen to anybody but her own. She denied so many of my material needs and experience I know she could have afford. And when me and someone had a fight, my mother would thought that it was my fault without examining first what has really happened. She always thought of me as the bad child. Up to now she still wants to exert her control over me by interfering with my career-decision (maybe so I could give her money in return). She tried so many guilt-tripping tactics like, "If you move out, don't forget us. You can't reach your destination if you don't look back." Meaning, 'You won't be successful in your life if you don't give gratitude to the people who raised you.') For her, supporting parents through their old age is a must if you're a good child. And she user this tactics so I won't forget her. I think she already knows that if I move out of her house and her life, I won't give a damn about her, that's why she keep on calling through phone, but most of the time I don't answer. It's not that I hate her. I'm just irritated. I just want her out of my life forever with no attachments whatsoever. I only have gratitude for her, but love no. I don't love her honestly. Maybe I care for her but I don't love her. My father who is an INTJ I guess, is an ideal father. He is not a miser. He will give what you want without spoiling you. He supports your intellectual stimulation. He's the kind of father everyone likes to have because most kids have drunken parents, their dads have vices (alcohol, drugs), sometimes not responsible enough, and of course the caring issue that most fathers have with their children. But with my father, I didn't experience any of those because he is too introverted. And he's really so protective if some kids are being obnoxious with us siblings. I wish I had spend more time with my father than with my mother. I could have been a person I ought to be. I'm just a wasted INTJ that has great potentials but just blocked because of a selfish mother, who didn't support and understand what's best for my development.
I'm sorry about the situation with your mom. It's good that you had your father to turn to. I wish I had that.
 

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@Zombie Devil Duckie I think the OP's concerns are genuine. Yes, from the writing style, it seems that he is very young, so there's a tendency to not view everything from all perspectives yet. But I don't think the OP owes unconditional reverence to the parent simply because they are the parent. That's the run in when it comes to NT's interaction with their SJ parents.

@debugger
You should approach the situation as delicately as you can. If you have the urge to "talk back" at your mom, resist it. Find a support group outside of the home, find an adult whom you feel you can trust and be frank about your situation to. More importantly, plan. Collect as much information as you can on this topic. Find out what you can do as the child to help curtail the negative interactions with your mom. Find a job if you can and work hard at school so you can leave. Ask other INTJs about their experience with their parents and see if that can help you a bit more. Best of luck.
 

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How are you doing caregivers?

The reason i`m opening this thread is that i have an abusive ESFJ mother (I made her take the test) and she has been trying to destroy my free-will and self-confidence all the time.

The things she does:

1 - She tries to control me

She always tries to guilt trip me like "you are such a psycho for making me feel this bad" and when i tell her that she is being too sensitive she just starts going into rage mode (and i just get up and go to my room and lock the door not talking to her again for days).She always tells me what i should do,What i should wear,I should be more sensitive etc.) and when i tell her that i dont value emotional decisions but i undersand her she just flips off (seriously do ESFJ`s have a sense of self-awareness?) and she is never tired of making drama and trying to get everyone to switch to her side.

We were discussing about improvements she could make to her room and she just said jokingly "did you find my dildo or something?" (WTF?!) i told her that i`m not comfortable talking about her sex toys and she just started screaming at me "why are you being so mean?why are you so blah blah blah"

2 - She made my sister go against me

My sister being the ENFJ she always tries to suck up to her,make her feel like she`s in control etc.I had a long talk with her about how important is her freedom and gave her logical (and quasi-emotional) reasons why she should draw boundaries to the control my mom has over her.I`ve always cared my sister and protected her through my childhood and now my sister doesn`t want me to talk to her anymore because i upset her dear mother.I must admit i felt betrayed as i tried my entire life to keep her away from the emotional abuse my mother provokes on her.


3 - She gives people she barely knows big amounts of money to make herself look like someone important

My step-father`s family is full of ex-robbers and simple beggers and my mom just circles these lazy bums around her and sweet-talk to them,then gives them at least 50-100 dollars after the bums tell her how great she is,how nice she is,how beautiful she is etc (she is simply paying people to give her validation)



1 week ago i just couldn`t keep my emotions inside me anymore (after all these years of being beaten up and told off) and what i did was just go up to her and tell her that she has failed as a mother and a protector (being separated from my dad my mom is the only one that gives us food,clothes etc.) and i `cant stand her incompetence anymore.All she did was lose huge amounts of money while being pricked by others for money and doing her best to feel like she has control over us.

When i tell her that i love her (which comes out in an awkward voice) she just tells me that i`m lying.

Now the question:

How do i keep her away from me and my children (when i`ll have) as i move out?

Is there any chance i might make her less abusive and more loving?(the only way i can continue talking to her.)
All I can say is that you need to gtfo! My esfj mom is just as crazy but in different ways and is extremely bad too. Soon I'll be living with my istj dad so I can live the life I want to live!
 

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Thanks to these links. I'm gonna find and buy those in bookstore.

Hahaha! I checked out "Emotional Blackmail" at the local library many years ago, when I was still in high school. When my stepfather at the time tried to use his typical bullshit arguments against me, I just threw the book and every logical argument in it at him. He didn't take it very well.
 
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How are you doing caregivers?

The reason i`m opening this thread is that i have an abusive ESFJ mother (I made her take the test) and she has been trying to destroy my free-will and self-confidence all the time.

The things she does:

1 - She tries to control me

She always tries to guilt trip me like "you are such a psycho for making me feel this bad" and when i tell her that she is being too sensitive she just starts going into rage mode (and i just get up and go to my room and lock the door not talking to her again for days).She always tells me what i should do,What i should wear,I should be more sensitive etc.) and when i tell her that i dont value emotional decisions but i undersand her she just flips off (seriously do ESFJ`s have a sense of self-awareness?) and she is never tired of making drama and trying to get everyone to switch to her side.

Now the question:

How do i keep her away from me and my children (when i`ll have) as i move out?

Is there any chance i might make her less abusive and more loving?(the only way i can continue talking to her.)
My ESFJ mother is exactly the same way and I know how frustrating it can be. I'm an ESFJ myself and I can hardly stand it sometimes. Appearance is everything to an ESFJ, and this applies to people who are associated with them. My mom will tell me what to wear and if she doesn't like what I'm wearing, will constantly tell me how terrible I look in order for me to change into what she wants me to wear. She'll even try to stop me from leaving the house in the clothes I chose. Or she'll constantly put me down about my weight, telling me I can't eat certain things if I want to stay pretty. Nothing more nightmarish than an unhealthy ESFJ mother..

First, you have to understand that she does love you, despite all the controlling behavior and emotional abuse. It's a case of motherly love run amok. She believes she knows best, tries to prevent you from making what she sees are "mistakes", and will try to do this by any means necessary. I'm still not 100% sure how to deal with it. Sometimes when I tell her exactly how bad her words can make me feel, and that she's doing serious emotional damage, she has backed off before and even apologized later after taking some time to reflect on her actions. I think in the moment, they aren't even fully aware of what they're saying, since their only goal is to make you agree with them. Tell her exactly what things she said made you upset. ESFJs are not good with logical arguments; instead, try to help her see the emotional reasoning behind why you're upset. I really hope that helps.
 

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My mom is pretty similar to yours, but hasn't been abusive in years. The only thing that worked was relating how I felt about the things she did and said to something that mattered to her, like religion. ( Like, I really don't think this is very Christ like etc.) But even that would only last so long. So my advice is to do everything within your power to become financially independent and then get the hell out.

Now that I think about it, my mother in law sounds like a carbon copy of your mom. She would control my husband's eating habits, his clothes, what he could watch/ listen to, who could speak to ( even banning him from talking to his other siblings) and would blame it all on being a good parent. She'd then either get physical or go off on tangents about how poor and misunderstood she was. So when my husband left, he only visited her once after and hasn't talked to her in many years. She got to see our son once, but immediately latched on to him and started trying to control him and myself. Even going so far as to trying to forcefully move me out of my home and in to hers so she could 'take care' of me.

So again, plan and save so you can get out and then live your life on your terms. If she doesn't change her ways she doesn't need to be around you or your children. No one has a *right* to force their shit on family, especially children and grandchildren so don't feel bad that she's 'missing out'. I'm so sorry for what you're going through, I hope you can keep it cool until you can be free.
 

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All you need is: "Mom, please let me do this my way. I am OLD enough now."

I think you seemed to be struggling in the stage whereby you want that bit of independence of adulthood to that of the childhood period. I mean, you can make it work. Remind her your age. Just keep reminding her that it is indeed your perogative to learn and do things your way now. Especially whereby personal dress sense, hygiene, and how your room is kept etc.

I have to say, I did not wanted to sound mean, or I read your thread and I chuckled a little bit... :)
Maybe your mother is being overbearing a little bit, in her own F way.

Well, one thing you can try and make her learn is, whenever she is about to make a critical judgement of sorts, then keep silence and walk away. Doing this will activate her S side, cos it is a deliberate action and she can see that something she said offended you. To keep a bit of respect, then just say politely "I am going to my room now". I threw this one on you cos I saw this from my INTJ brother-in-law did to my ESTJ mom! lol.... (And I thought to myself, heck, I wish I knew this trick when I was a kid with my own mom. Then not to make matter worst, I just soothed the atmosphere with my mom, cos I said to her that she should give him room cos he had not slept and was in the emergency room with my sister where she just gave birth! She was so much more understanding then. He was absolutely tired out basically.) Being an INFP myself, I find my INTJ great company. Though he did mentioned that I am dramatic here and there, and I try to hide this and get rid of as much of my emotions in my own personal time as I can. I think you need to maybe start to find your own balance now as well. Your own unique style to communicate with feelers. My ESFJ sister thought that my INTJ brother in law's silence is attractive ! lol.... His own words were "self preservation". :)

I would encourage you to say less to your mother. Cos some of the words you came out with was very harsh to someone who is born with unconditional emotions. You may not know one thing, but when you are so close to somebody, your whole body and emotions is almost heightened and they cannot help but to protect you. It's like oxytocin, whatever chemicals exist inside of your body and you cannot help but feel alert, heightened awareness etc. For SJs, dressing in a way or to display and portray yourself in a certain way, means to fend off attackers sometimes. They want you to use clothes to demand respect sometimes. They use visual awareness a lot. I see my sister now grooming my baby nephew a lot, but she also checks every safety mark and standard in every item she buys. She also checks for a lot of body marks each day to ensure she is okay. It is her way to make sure he is alright and she is doing something right in feeding him and growing him etc. You can maybe say sometimes to her, "I want to wear this because it reflects my personality." I think over time, they will understand that they are being too controlling...
 

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Emotional arguments don't really work either. I've told my mom (ESFJ) that I "feel" this way and she ignores it if she doesn't like it. Then she twists words into how she interprets them. It drives me insane. My advice is pick your battles and walk away. You can't change other people. It is what it is.
 

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Emotional arguments don't really work either. I've told my mom (ESFJ) that I "feel" this way and she ignores it if she doesn't like it. Then she twists words into how she interprets them. It drives me insane. My advice is pick your battles and walk away. You can't change other people. It is what it is.

The same damn thing with me and my mom. It's funny how she makes it a point to express herself while crushing any divergent opinion contrary to hers. Emotional appeals don't work (I don't care about how you feel if it disturbs my feelings), logical arguments certainly don't work, appeal to reality doesn't work, nothing works other than saying "No matter how wrong you are, you're absolutely, unequivocally right about everything." Then accommodate them and emotionally validate them at every turn, while your will to live and sanity diminishes. There's a reason why the "Why do people dislike ESFJs" thread is over 20 pages long.
 

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The same damn thing with me and my mom. It's funny how she makes it a point to express herself while crushing any divergent opinion contrary to hers. Emotional appeals don't work (I don't care about how you feel if it disturbs my feelings), logical arguments certainly don't work, appeal to reality doesn't work, nothing works other than saying "No matter how wrong you are, you're absolutely, unequivocally right about everything." Then accommodate them and emotionally validate them at every turn, while your will to live and sanity diminishes. There's a reason why the "Why do people dislike ESFJs" thread is over 20 pages long.
Agreed. In fact, this trait is how I can spot an ESFJ anywhere. That and the flashy clothing. The thing is about the ESFJ is what they hate the most in the entire world is to feel badly in any way. Usually I try to get what I can out of pissing them off more once they are because there isn't a way to fix it. But what I have realized is that my mom is never wrong. Ever. Once she ran over a rabbit with her car. Was she wrong? No. The rabbit welcomed death. She just helped it. Because that's what she deos. She helps things into their natural process.
 

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greed. In fact, this trait is how I can spot an ESFJ anywhere. That and the flashy clothing.
I wear lots of black, dark green and generally solid's.

Also, how do you know she's not:

ENTJ
ESTJ
ENFJ

You can't just "look" at someone and determine their personality, and like many others, you are cramming the stereotyped "mom" into the ESFJ personality type. According to Myers-Briggs statistics, only 13% of the population is ESFJ, and of that 13% you have to break it down between male and female. That number doesn't leave a lot of "ESFJ" mothers. As a young person you barely have control over your own emotions. How can look into someone else and determine if they are sensing/intuition and thinking/feeling?

There will (hopefully) be a day later on in your life, when you look back and see that she wasn't as crazy as you thought :kitteh:


-ZDD
 
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