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Hi there,

I mean you no personal disrespect (I often have to lead with that), but it's time that you hear (read) something to bring you back down to earth;

Yep, you are her child and, based on your writing style, are not an adult yet. It's her job to keep you from spinning out of control.

Sounds like sibling rivalry. It happens. You'll get over it.

What she does with her money is not your business. You live under her roof and eat her food. She pays the bills.

Honestly, nobody here really knows your situation and there's always 2 sides to every story. I'm sure some of what you wrote above is true and some of it is a misunderstanding between you and your family members.

When I see things like this: it makes me think that you had a bad day and are just letting off some steam.

Take a deep breath, go back and look at the situation with fresh eyes. It's likely not as bad as it sounded when you wrote that :kitteh:

- ZDD
You may have missed the part where the OP mentioned his mother not only physically assaulting him, but other children as well. That alone is bad enough.
 

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1. You don't know me or how much control over my emotions I have. That point is invalid.
2. Where am I stereotyping "moms" as ESFJs?
3. She's my mother. I see her everyday and have delt with her in numerous situations. I think I can tell if she's S/N or T/F. But thanks for defending her.

She also took the test and each time ended with ESFJ, high Fe.
 
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I'm so glad to know I'm not the only one with a very emotionally abusive ESFJ mother!! Not that it helps me in my situation, but it's a nice sense of solidarity.

My mom has always seen me as a "bad kid" and makes it known how embarrassed she is by my behavior. I was drugged up for several years for bipolar, where she would use it as fuel to hurt me, saying things like "go take your meds" if I was expressing negative emotions. And when I quit the meds (I was not bipolar), she got furious. She even got my sisters in to the game, where they would blackmail me and say things like "you get away with everything because you have PROBLEMS".

Even now, at 27, living on my own, physically and financially independent, she still has a tight grip on me emotionally. She tries to control me and say cruel things to me, but all under the guise of advice and the loving mother. To the point where she has scared my boyfriend into taking me to IKEA before he meets them in 2 weeks. The minute she found out he had a car anytime I talked to her she would ask if he had taken me to IKEA yet to get the TV stand I had been needing since December. I don't get what her problem is, it's my apartment, and I will get there and get it when I get there!! I really think she's embarrassed to bring her constant entourage of visitors to NYC (since of course she has all her friends and they think they have free lodging in Manhattan with me.....and she doesn't ask to stay, she says I hope you're free this certain week because I'm coming with so-and-so, oh and then I'm going to be there the following month with this person) and have them see my haphazard apartment with the TV sitting on two plastic milk crates. It was so bad my boyfriend even joked after he took me to IKEA, well you can break up with me now, you've gotten everything you want out of this relationship!! And while I know he's teasing, it breaks my heart that he felt he had to do this to please my dysfunctional family he's never met just so they don't hate him.

My feelings/emotions are unimportant and disregarded, especially if they are expressed outwardly. She is passive-aggressive and has tried to side my sisters and I up against our dad, telling us nasty things about him and encouraged us to treat him badly - it's only now that I have moved out that I realize that my dad is actually the victim in the situation and while he doesn't express his feelings or show affection, he cares about us deeply. She was obsessed with how others saw her, and went so far as threatening me if I were to reveal things about our family, because she did not want her perfect little nuclear family illusion ruined. My parents haven't slept in the same room in 20+ years (they have only been married 23 years....he is not my biological father, but that's what she tries to hide by any and all means necessary), and it's essentially a financial union, but she is determined that everyone sees this perfect little family with a nice house, nice clothes, nice vacations, etc. Sometimes I think she tries to buy our love.

The hardest part is that all I have learned is these passive-aggressive and manipulative behaviors, that the only way I can get what I want is to manipulate people and if I don't get what I want or I have to do something I don't want to do act passive-aggressive so everyone knows how I feel. Because talking about feelings/emotions is bad. Having feelings/emotions is bad. And I'm wrong. And I'm bad.

Oh, and I'm in therapy. And I wonder if I'm going to be in therapy for the rest of my life because my mom has screwed me up so badly, that my view of relationships is so dysfunctional, that I have no clue what to do in a healthy one.

How does one emotionally break free from this toxicity??

I love my mom, I really do. She does have good qualities, and I know that she loves me. But if anyone were to confront her that she has damaged us in any way, she would go ballistic and completely shut down and reject the idea. She is always right. And self-righteous. And she really thinks she is being loving and actually giving advice. How do you break free from this, when the person who is doing it has absolutely no self-awareness to realize what they are doing???
 

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Auntie Duckie
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You may have missed the part where the OP mentioned his mother not only physically assaulting him, but other children as well. That alone is bad enough.
Yes, I did.. Can you point it out please?


-ZDD
 

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(disregard, I need reading comprehension lessons, lol)

I'll just say "wow, that sucks, sorry", since folks here are looking for a fight. I wish you the best with resolving it.


-ZDD
 

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as an xnfp (enfp/infp) i feel you pain my mom is an emotional auser im 24 and have aspergers (also mtf trans but another story for another time. and i still live at home..( idk how to drive tho i did get my learners permit lol). anyway my mom is esfj and is so bad for my health then my dad is an istj so i get fucked no matter what:sad:

but yeah my mom is always throwing little digs/jabs at me when we talk i get into lose lose situations with her and any time i try to do soemthing that weird to her like express my gender to relive some of my dysphoria and goes back to what about me and my image...

any how i know how you feel and i hope that one day your over come your bad mother

ps i read the toxic parents one they have a pdf out there if ant one needs it..
 

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So, WHY is the dynamic that happens with ESFJ mothers? Do ENSJ men behave this way? Asking because I don't know any. My MIL is ESFJ and the OP nailed her dynamic with her kids and their spouses. I am the only spouse that has escaped her....THE ONLY ONE. I don't understand why there is a problem between the INTJ/ESFJ. I personally get along with my mother in law NOW....after holding my ground for several years and proving myself with action AND getting her approval through my HUSBAND. My husband value's me and she knows that, she see's he is happy and I DO a good job...mother in law approved of taking care of him...health, relationship, cooperating on financial decisions, ect. She doesn't understand me, she doesn't always like me but she approves of me, so with boundaries...WE WORK JUST FINE.
I am sad the ESFJ gets the bad rap on this and I understand why they do, however, I think all types have there control issues and it goes both ways. Both parties have to give and both parties have learn to respect each other.
I am INTJ...in most instances I do not give a FUCK...but I really don't understand why the 2 types...especially when the ESFJ is female can not get along. TIME TO GET OVER IT PEOPLE.
 

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Do their parents respect them? Should one be forced to respect their abuser? Reflect on that.
It's natural for kids to respect their parents. If you think kids are capable to make sound judgement then be my guest and give them the safe-combination of your gunlocker. I mean, you don't want to appear abusive by denying them that right now do you?
 

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It's natural for kids to respect their parents. If you think kids are capable to make sound judgement then be my guest and give them the safe-combination of your gunlocker. I mean, you don't want to appear abusive by denying them that right now do you?
How does your argument even apply to my point? Respect is something basic but if someone breaks it, then it's all moot unless the person actively and genuinely regrets their actions and works toward bettering themselves and attempting to own up to their actions. Children are bonded to parents because parents provide them their first emotional and loving bond, however, if the love is toxic and there are abusive elements, invalidating the child's rightful pain and feelings would only be a fake and hurtful facade.

Kids might not be able to make mature decisions, although their intelligence is often underestimated, but they can clearly make judgements based on how they feel and perceive things. I grew up with an abusive ESFJ mother, I know what I'm talking about. Just wondering why you think a person should respect their parents no matter what, that poster is clearly not a child.
 

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How does your argument even apply to my point? Respect is something basic but if someone breaks it, then it's all moot unless the person actively and genuinely regrets their actions and works toward bettering themselves and attempting to own up to their actions. Children are bonded to parents because parents provide them their first emotional and loving bond, however, if the love is toxic and there are abusive elements, invalidating the child's rightful pain and feelings would only be a fake and hurtful facade.

Kids might not be able to make mature decisions, although their intelligence is often underestimated, but they can clearly make judgements based on how they feel and perceive things. I grew up with an abusive ESFJ mother, I know what I'm talking about. Just wondering why you think a person should respect their parents no matter what, that poster is clearly not a child.
That's the thing sweetheart. Kids aren't capable of judgement when it comes to assessing their environment. I make my child eat the dirt off my shoe to speak, and she will do it because she understands the age-old tradition of respecting your parents. Now the newer generation doesn't and I feel blessed for having brought up a child that is neither spoiled nor foul in attitude.

Trust me, I don't give a rats-ass about the feelings of my kids nor do I care about their intelligence. As long as they do what is right and obey commands. In other words, kids are reliant on the judgement of their superiors, and should inquire based on their feelings and perception, rather than act upon it and decide to make decisions like not respecting their parents.
 

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That's the thing sweetheart. Kids aren't capable of judgement when it comes to assessing their environment. I make my child eat the dirt off my shoe to speak, and she will do it because she understands the age-old tradition of respecting your parents. Now the newer generation doesn't and I feel blessed for having brought up a child that is neither spoiled nor foul in attitude.
Don't patronize me, I'm not your sweetheart and thank 'god' for that. If that is genuinely your attitude toward your kids, I really hope that as soon as they're old enough to leave your crutches and manipulation, they'll be able to leave your home. Because I don't want to assume things I don't know about but 'I make my child eat the dirt off my shoe to speak' is an anything but a healthy approach. They're not being respectful, they're likely frightened and conditioned, how is that a source of pride?

Trust me, I don't give a rats-ass about the feelings of my kids nor do I care about their intelligence. As long as they do what is right and obey commands. In other words, kids are reliant on the judgement of their superiors, and should inquire based on their feelings and perception, rather than act upon it and decide to make decisions like not respecting their parents.
I can only hope you're a troll and, given your number of posts and your thread of choice, that seems likely. But I chose to answer you regardless because this is not an unusual way to view children raising and it becomes even worse and more devastating when the person is unhealthy. If you're for real, I hope that your children will recover from your manipulative, controlling ways soon, I don't want children myself but it doesn't take much to recognize abusive patterns. As usual, I'm not drunk enough for this shit and I won't bother with you any longer, take it as you wish.
 

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Don't patronize me, I'm not your sweetheart and thank 'god' for that. If that is genuinely your attitude toward your kids, I really hope that as soon as they're old enough to leave your crutches and manipulation, they'll be able to leave your home. Because I don't want to assume things I don't know about but 'I make my child eat the dirt off my shoe to speak' is an anything but a healthy approach. They're not being respectful, they're likely frightened and conditioned, how is that a source of pride?

I can only hope you're a troll and, given your number of posts and your thread of choice, that seems likely. But I chose to answer you regardless because this is not an unusual way to view children raising and it becomes even worse and more devastating when the person is unhealthy. If you're for real, I hope that your children will recover from your manipulative, controlling ways soon, I don't want children myself but it doesn't take much to recognize abusive patterns. As usual, I'm not drunk enough for this shit and I won't bother with you any longer, take it as you wish.
Well, I can't control your assumptions now, can I?

But I do agree with you on one thing, they are conditioned and well behaved - I'll give you that. Unlike these princesses in this video:
 

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Trust me, I don't give a rats-ass about the feelings of my kids nor do I care about their intelligence. As long as they do what is right and obey commands. In other words, kids are reliant on the judgement of their superiors, and should inquire based on their feelings and perception, rather than act upon it and decide to make decisions like not respecting their parents.
Now THAT says it all. That is a beautiful excerpt of how the abusive ESFJ mother's brain is conditioned and functions. Thank you EXE for proving the point of the OP....Beautifully done. I applaud.

You can get the same result..."getting your child to obey and do what is right" WITH CARE FOR THEIR INTELLEGENCE. I agree children are reliant on the judgment of their superiors and should learn and listen to their superiors. You are correct. The thing is the parent/superior is there to teach, love, lead, guide...and all of those encompass the entire well being of the child...AKA CARING...the thing you as an ESFJ should be the best at. Apparently you missed that part.
Children are intelligent, not all will "sit, stay, fetch" in exchange for a treat. Some need reasoning and stimulation in order to thrive and become the person THEY are intended to be.

All are not sheep. Some are shepherds and the shepherd will be smarter than the sheep. SOME SHEPHERDS are not...there sheep will scatter....at least scatter from the unintelligent barbaric shepherd they came from.
Sorry if you don't follow the analogy. I refuse to explain it. I am not the jack ass whisperer ya know.
 

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But I do agree with you on one thing, they are conditioned and well behaved
Oh they're SO well behaved.....

Mussolini4.jpg

The OP has the full right for holding her mother accountable. He should initiate an extensive boycott with the assistance of relatives and friends where all participating parties should not communicate, interact or provide any goods/services to the guilty party. The boycott will be conducted until his mother formally confesses to abuse of parental authority and usurping the rights to free thought, speech, and to conduct peaceful protest. She must also have her parental powers greatly reduced concerning her son's mobility, punishment, dress, and beliefs as well as her control over the budget. Any proposals by her must be supported with empirical evidence and/or an unbiased party. Reparations in cash are also advised.
 

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That's the thing sweetheart. Kids aren't capable of judgement when it comes to assessing their environment. I make my child eat the dirt off my shoe to speak, and she will do it because she understands the age-old tradition of respecting your parents. Now the newer generation doesn't and I feel blessed for having brought up a child that is neither spoiled nor foul in attitude.

Trust me, I don't give a rats-ass about the feelings of my kids nor do I care about their intelligence. As long as they do what is right and obey commands. In other words, kids are reliant on the judgement of their superiors, and should inquire based on their feelings and perception, rather than act upon it and decide to make decisions like not respecting their parents.
There's the problem. Right fucking there.

Jesus Christ I hope you're a troll.
 
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Now THAT says it all. That is a beautiful excerpt of how the abusive ESFJ mother's brain is conditioned and functions. Thank you EXE for proving the point of the OP....Beautifully done. I applaud.

You can get the same result..."getting your child to obey and do what is right" WITH CARE FOR THEIR INTELLEGENCE. I agree children are reliant on the judgment of their superiors and should learn and listen to their superiors. You are correct. The thing is the parent/superior is there to teach, love, lead, guide...and all of those encompass the entire well being of the child...AKA CARING...the thing you as an ESFJ should be the best at. Apparently you missed that part.
I care by conditioning them how to succeed in real life. Boasting their arrogance by telling them they are intelligent is the worst way of going about it. Rather, kids need to be thought about the concept of humility and respect and we work our way up from there. In the end, its all about the results.

Children are intelligent, not all will "sit, stay, fetch" in exchange for a treat. Some need reasoning and stimulation in order to thrive and become the person THEY are intended to be.
That is your interpretation of what a command is in my household. I rather have them break/disassemble cute voice-activated puppies to expose the machinery in it. I want them to learn how things actually work. In my day I used to be punished for doing that, but I want my kids to have all the freedom of exploring on their own. Sometimes, kids are not aware of this freedom - so I command them to do certain things like breaking their toys, or add water to burning oil, so that they may learn.

Other days, I command them not to get ready for school - so they can play outside and train their rotoric movements. I drill them to be able to do push-ups, clinging to monkey bars and have a strong stamina in general. A healthy mind needs a healthy body, and not low-level clergical skills. If my kids fail, I treat them with candy. Nowadays, my kids won't touch anything that is sugary because they associate it with negativity. That's a pretty well engineered response if I may say so :tongue:.

But there are limits though. I.E I do not permit my kids to cut open animals or insects, out of respect for the living. They don't watch TV or anything either. Instead, they receive books that I have read personally to ensure it does not contain disinformation, political messages or shallow content. My library is filled with (non-fictional) books about different sujects in various spectrums. I'm blessed with intelligent kids which already have surpassed their level by rigorious homeschooling, but why stop there right? I don't need my kids to have good grades, I need them to be professionals in the future. They need to be wolves.


All are not sheep. Some are shepherds and the shepherd will be smarter than the sheep. SOME SHEPHERDS are not...there sheep will scatter....at least scatter from the unintelligent barbaric shepherd they came from.
Sorry if you don't follow the analogy. I refuse to explain it. I am not the jack ass whisperer ya know.
I simply know better. Therefore I will provide the very best for my kids, even if people like you and the others- refuse to understand it. Secretly, you probably know I'm right, but what else is new.
 

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Sigh...

OP, I sympathize with you, I truly do. I don't know your situation, so perhaps your mother is truly horrible. I know how hard it is to explain to someone that a family member/friend is crazy/abusive, and not come off as you being overly sensitive and reacting to every little thing. I don't personally think it's selfish to limit contact your kids have with her if she truly is as horrible as you say. I don't think there's anything you can say to make her stop being who she is. I'm afraid all you can do is try to keep the peace, maintain your distance, and wait to get out. As for your sister, continue to love her, but don't try to argue with her as it'll only end up polarizing her and pushing her away from you and towards your mother. She has to decide for herself how she views her mother and the situation.
 
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