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I can understand that, negligence can even be pretty deadly at times.
From that pov a person would naturally feel like the grass is greener on the other side, because if their parents bothered to lecture them it at least meant that their existence was of importance to someone. No one likes to feel unimportant or overlooked. Especially if it gets to the point of malnourishment on top of the emotional issues that arise from that sort of prolonged treatment.

From the other pov a person would probably appreciate a little neglect because for once they'd have some reprieve from the constant belittling and manipulation.
Exactly.
This is something I think my boyfriend has difficulty understanding because he was never controlled but also never provided for. I was given food and money for school but lived in constant fear of being slapped or slammed against the car.
Neither ideal! And my heart breaks for people that had the short end of both abusive sticks :(

Dang, the world is so sad....


If you're scared of it happening then I think that's a pretty good sign that you'll do everything in your power to not be that way. I know that's one of my main goals in parenting (which I get to start doing in about 4 months) is to not be anything like my parents or family was. Granted so long as I feed my kid and don't beat them then I've already surpassed my family but...I do have higher aims then that XD
You are with child?!


I'm so very happy for you! :D

And I can already tell you are an extremely kindhearted and emotionally aware human being :) I'm sure you'll take to being a mother wonderfully!


And what you said makes me feel better. Thank you!
I guess just need to always be aware and not let my guard down. I can't be a nonabusive parents in the early years and let my guard down and start smacking and swearing :{
I'll make my own mistakes as a parent - just different ones.
But as long as they're loving, well-adjusted individuals I'll be happy - and I'll help them along the way in any way I can. I get real excited thinking about that.

Ahh! And you get to actually do that stuff soon :) So exciting.
 

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See what I was talking about earlier when I mentioned justifications?
Though I really do think this person is a troll, and I've been very entertained by their posts.
Trolling or not, I still feel for you and how your mother treated you. It sucks to be dependent on incompetent human beings.
 

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@debugger - I have an ESFJ mother and an INTP father.

I am not in touch with my parents, so I can't be sure of their personality types, but my father was exactly like me- I'm INTP, and when I tried to figure out my mother's personality type, I guessed she was ESFJ right off the bat. I came to this forum and sure enough one of the first posts was about abuse.

My mother was extremely abusive to me all through my childhood. Physically, mentally, emotionally. I'm sure not all ESFJs are abusive, but it's possible ESFJs just don't get NT personality types or our need for space and solitude. Or perhaps your mother has what they call a "cluster B personality disorder" (bipolar, borderline.) My own mother has borderline. Won't seek treatment. As such, I can't be in contact.

If you're still around on this forum, I would recommend putting a lot of space between you and her. My mother also was controlling, physically abusive, turned my brother and me against each other, favored one of us over the other (he is, I'm guessing ENFJ or ENFP). I ended up having to totally disconnect from my family. Haven't seen them for 5 years.

Unfortunately I recently reconnected with my brother, and he's now the victim of my mother's abuse. :(

Get out of there and take care of yourself. Sometimes it's all you can do. Never listen to anyone who would derail you and tell you "it isn't abuse" or you can't ever leave your family- you can, you should, and you owe it to yourself for your mental health. It's good that you are thinking of doing this.

If you doubt it, read this: Abusive parents: What do grown children owe the mothers and fathers who made their childhood a living hell?

I don't agree with this advice columnist on everything, but I sure do on this.
 

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Truth is absolute, and therefore, values can be boolean absolutes. While humans are imperfect, unable to achieve perfection - we should still aim to achieve perfection, even if we will never reach it. That is my judgement, which is inevitably subjective and which I hold to be superior over that of my children.



I teach my children that pain is weakness leaving their body. Moreover, I don't care what judgement the child makes if they are hit, nor do I care about who started it or what the reason is. All I want is my child to be victorious and hit back where it hurts, hard. And boy, do they succeed. Domination is an alpha trait.

But to answer your question. Yes a child is able to interpret whether they were hit or not. It is sensory information. They are not able to discern between being hit or being abused, however.


I place more value in the muscular strength of my children to survive life-threatening situations in society. Because societies..they don't tend to last long.



I am professionally involved in assessing and mitigating risks. Not only my children, but entire companies rely on my ability to manage crisis-situations if necessary. While my way of dealing with risk is subjective, it is the most educated and professional prespective on methodical management of risk.

Still, I do not wish my children to be dependent on my evaluation of risk till they grow up to be manchildren. When my kid was a toddler, she approached burning ember in my indoor fireplace. She tried to grab a piece of wood which was emanating a pretty orange glow.

I could have stopped her, but instead I let her touch the piece of wood. She shrieked and cried after doing so, realizing that the pretty piece of wood is hot. Since that day, I never had to shadowstep my child while she roamed the house fearing she might fall into the fireplace.


Children are incapable of making that judgement. All they think about is eat, drink, shit and play.

Sadly, we live in a time were effiminate degenerates are inclined to cut off the balls of their son because he tried wearing his mom's skirt for fun. Good thing my values are superior compared to the progressive wave of degeneracy that is plagueing the lands.

Wow. This totally could have been said by my mother, including the anecdote about the coal and the fireplace. She did the EXACT same thing to me when I was 2 years old! It gave me a second degree burn and put me in the *hospital.*

My mother was an abusive monster of a mother and as a result I have a stress induced disease that has disabled me for life, systemic lupus. I wish I could believe you were trolling but the fact that you've said some of the exact same things she used to is just incredible to me.

Think over the way you treat people and perhaps seek help through counseling. My mother didn't do it until I ended up in the hospital. She should have gone to jail. As it was I cut all contact with her forever.
 

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How are you doing caregivers?

The reason i`m opening this thread is that i have an abusive ESFJ mother (I made her take the test) and she has been trying to destroy my free-will and self-confidence all the time.

The things she does:

1 - She tries to control me

She always tries to guilt trip me like "you are such a psycho for making me feel this bad" and when i tell her that she is being too sensitive she just starts going into rage mode (and i just get up and go to my room and lock the door not talking to her again for days).She always tells me what i should do,What i should wear,I should be more sensitive etc.) and when i tell her that i dont value emotional decisions but i undersand her she just flips off (seriously do ESFJ`s have a sense of self-awareness?) and she is never tired of making drama and trying to get everyone to switch to her side.

We were discussing about improvements she could make to her room and she just said jokingly "did you find my dildo or something?" (WTF?!) i told her that i`m not comfortable talking about her sex toys and she just started screaming at me "why are you being so mean?why are you so blah blah blah"

2 - She made my sister go against me

My sister being the ENFJ she always tries to suck up to her,make her feel like she`s in control etc.I had a long talk with her about how important is her freedom and gave her logical (and quasi-emotional) reasons why she should draw boundaries to the control my mom has over her.I`ve always cared my sister and protected her through my childhood and now my sister doesn`t want me to talk to her anymore because i upset her dear mother.I must admit i felt betrayed as i tried my entire life to keep her away from the emotional abuse my mother provokes on her.


3 - She gives people she barely knows big amounts of money to make herself look like someone important

My step-father`s family is full of ex-robbers and simple beggers and my mom just circles these lazy bums around her and sweet-talk to them,then gives them at least 50-100 dollars after the bums tell her how great she is,how nice she is,how beautiful she is etc (she is simply paying people to give her validation)



1 week ago i just couldn`t keep my emotions inside me anymore (after all these years of being beaten up and told off) and what i did was just go up to her and tell her that she has failed as a mother and a protector (being separated from my dad my mom is the only one that gives us food,clothes etc.) and i `cant stand her incompetence anymore.All she did was lose huge amounts of money while being pricked by others for money and doing her best to feel like she has control over us.

When i tell her that i love her (which comes out in an awkward voice) she just tells me that i`m lying.

Now the question:

How do i keep her away from me and my children (when i`ll have) as i move out?

Is there any chance i might make her less abusive and more loving?(the only way i can continue talking to her.)
She just sounds like a very toxic person,I can relate..
I think she needs professional help..than maybe there's a chance she might improve,she sounds like a narcissist or bipolar person from your description of her..If u care about her at all than i guess the therapy would be your best bet if not a restraining order might work lol
 
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She just sounds like a very toxic person,I can relate..
I think she needs professional help..than maybe there's a chance she might improve,she sounds like a narcissist or bipolar person from your description of her..If u care about her at all than i guess the therapy would be your best bet if not a restraining order might work lol
The description of the woman in general has narcissist written all over it, but unfortunately the post itself is quite old. I hope the original poster did cut ties with her.
 

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@debugger - I have an ESFJ mother and an INTP father.

I am not in touch with my parents, so I can't be sure of their personality types, but my father was exactly like me- I'm INTP, and when I tried to figure out my mother's personality type, I guessed she was ESFJ right off the bat. I came to this forum and sure enough one of the first posts was about abuse.

My mother was extremely abusive to me all through my childhood. Physically, mentally, emotionally. I'm sure not all ESFJs are abusive, but it's possible ESFJs just don't get NT personality types or our need for space and solitude. Or perhaps your mother has what they call a "cluster B personality disorder" (bipolar, borderline.) My own mother has borderline. Won't seek treatment. As such, I can't be in contact.

If you're still around on this forum, I would recommend putting a lot of space between you and her. My mother also was controlling, physically abusive, turned my brother and me against each other, favored one of us over the other (he is, I'm guessing ENFJ or ENFP). I ended up having to totally disconnect from my family. Haven't seen them for 5 years.

Unfortunately I recently reconnected with my brother, and he's now the victim of my mother's abuse. :(

Get out of there and take care of yourself. Sometimes it's all you can do. Never listen to anyone who would derail you and tell you "it isn't abuse" or you can't ever leave your family- you can, you should, and you owe it to yourself for your mental health. It's good that you are thinking of doing this.

If you doubt it, read this: Abusive parents: What do grown children owe the mothers and fathers who made their childhood a living hell?

I don't agree with this advice columnist on everything, but I sure do on this.[/QUOTE





Has your mother had a diagnosis of borderline personality disorder?

I don't know one ESFJ that is borderline or bi-polar but I know several of another type that are. I don't want to say what type as this could be seriously damaging news to this type if they don't already know/realise.

The only mental health problem I've known ESFJ's have is GAD and depression. You see the thing is our minds just aren't creative enough to have anything outside of these as we are grounded in reality.

This is also one of the main reasons we aren't on here much at all. We don't feel the need to soul search for answers about ourselves. Our minds tend to be calm and sorted unless we have something going on in our environment that's getting us down. Environmental problems i.e. happenings outside the head affects us but not busy painful minds that need answers.

I'm sorry you've had such a hard time. I'd start again with typing your mother though.
 

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@debugger - I have an ESFJ mother and an INTP father.

I am not in touch with my parents, so I can't be sure of their personality types, but my father was exactly like me- I'm INTP, and when I tried to figure out my mother's personality type, I guessed she was ESFJ right off the bat. I came to this forum and sure enough one of the first posts was about abuse.

My mother was extremely abusive to me all through my childhood. Physically, mentally, emotionally. I'm sure not all ESFJs are abusive, but it's possible ESFJs just don't get NT personality types or our need for space and solitude. Or perhaps your mother has what they call a "cluster B personality disorder" (bipolar, borderline.) My own mother has borderline. Won't seek treatment. As such, I can't be in contact.

If you're still around on this forum, I would recommend putting a lot of space between you and her. My mother also was controlling, physically abusive, turned my brother and me against each other, favored one of us over the other (he is, I'm guessing ENFJ or ENFP). I ended up having to totally disconnect from my family. Haven't seen them for 5 years.

Unfortunately I recently reconnected with my brother, and he's now the victim of my mother's abuse. :(

Get out of there and take care of yourself. Sometimes it's all you can do. Never listen to anyone who would derail you and tell you "it isn't abuse" or you can't ever leave your family- you can, you should, and you owe it to yourself for your mental health. It's good that you are thinking of doing this.

If you doubt it, read this: Abusive parents: What do grown children owe the mothers and fathers who made their childhood a living hell?

I don't agree with this advice columnist on everything, but I sure do on this.[/QUOTE





Has your mother had a diagnosis of borderline personality disorder?

I don't know one ESFJ that is borderline or bi-polar but I know several of another type that are. I don't want to say what type as this could be seriously damaging news to this type if they don't already know/realise.

The only mental health problem I've known ESFJ's have is GAD and depression. You see the thing is our minds just aren't creative enough to have anything outside of these as we are grounded in reality.

This is also one of the main reasons we aren't on here much at all. We don't feel the need to soul search for answers about ourselves. Our minds tend to be calm and sorted unless we have something going on in our environment that's getting us down. Environmental problems i.e. happenings outside the head affects us but not busy painful minds that need answers.

I'm sorry you've had such a hard time. I'd start again with typing your mother though.
I think you missed the part when I said she absolutely won't seek treatment. Personality disorders are not limited to one type or another. Your personal experience may be that you "don't know any ESFJs" with borderline but that does not logically follow that no ESFJs have borderline. There's an error in your logic.
 

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Based off of the OP I see NO evidence that this is an abusive mother. But based on the trivial things that were being complained about it looks more like a typical whinny kid who doesn't get his own way, so my only advise for him is to move out. Move out, move out then you will know what its like to be an adult, and I am sure you will find its not so easy.

His trivial complaints:
She tries to control you - Really? How many kids perceive this about their parents?
She turned my sister against me. Ok she must be into black magic.
She spends money the way she wants. Umm ok, you don't get any say in how she spends her money. Are you just feeling entitled to it yourself? Get your own.

And he even stated that his mom is the only one the feeds and supports him, yet he has to gall to call her a failure as a mother.

Move out asap, I bet she will be more relieved than you.
 

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How are you doing caregivers?

The reason i`m opening this thread is that i have an abusive ESFJ mother (I made her take the test) and she has been trying to destroy my free-will and self-confidence all the time.

The things she does:

1 - She tries to control me

She always tries to guilt trip me like "you are such a psycho for making me feel this bad" and when i tell her that she is being too sensitive she just starts going into rage mode (and i just get up and go to my room and lock the door not talking to her again for days).She always tells me what i should do,What i should wear,I should be more sensitive etc.) and when i tell her that i dont value emotional decisions but i undersand her she just flips off (seriously do ESFJ`s have a sense of self-awareness?) and she is never tired of making drama and trying to get everyone to switch to her side.

We were discussing about improvements she could make to her room and she just said jokingly "did you find my dildo or something?" (WTF?!) i told her that i`m not comfortable talking about her sex toys and she just started screaming at me "why are you being so mean?why are you so blah blah blah"

2 - She made my sister go against me

My sister being the ENFJ she always tries to suck up to her,make her feel like she`s in control etc.I had a long talk with her about how important is her freedom and gave her logical (and quasi-emotional) reasons why she should draw boundaries to the control my mom has over her.I`ve always cared my sister and protected her through my childhood and now my sister doesn`t want me to talk to her anymore because i upset her dear mother.I must admit i felt betrayed as i tried my entire life to keep her away from the emotional abuse my mother provokes on her.


3 - She gives people she barely knows big amounts of money to make herself look like someone important

My step-father`s family is full of ex-robbers and simple beggers and my mom just circles these lazy bums around her and sweet-talk to them,then gives them at least 50-100 dollars after the bums tell her how great she is,how nice she is,how beautiful she is etc (she is simply paying people to give her validation)



1 week ago i just couldn`t keep my emotions inside me anymore (after all these years of being beaten up and told off) and what i did was just go up to her and tell her that she has failed as a mother and a protector (being separated from my dad my mom is the only one that gives us food,clothes etc.) and i `cant stand her incompetence anymore.All she did was lose huge amounts of money while being pricked by others for money and doing her best to feel like she has control over us.

When i tell her that i love her (which comes out in an awkward voice) she just tells me that i`m lying.

Now the question:

How do i keep her away from me and my children (when i`ll have) as i move out?

Is there any chance i might make her less abusive and more loving?(the only way i can continue talking to her.)


:(

<3

First off, I want to tell you that this is actually quite common, but not enough that many people will get. Sounds like a scapegoating dynamic, and to be honest, while it might simmer down when you leave home and have someone in the future to love and protect you- the scapegoating family may treat you better then, by proxy. I don't want to get into too much here, but I will tell you this, it's very close to home, and when you get out of situations like this... you may end up networking and confiding in people who are not there for you the way you need it... it's part of growing up in that environment where you're not properly supported, so despite reaching out and seeking support, it just flags other people with their own narcissistic agendas to feel better about themselves. Don't give up, just eliminate what does not serve you and keep moving on.

#1, protect your finances, and at all costs make sure your mom does not have access to these things or your bank account, or know how much money you ever make. you can guarantee that when and if you have money to spare, she will be coming around with random sob stories for bills, etc. and guilt trip you. You have to absolutely refuse a single penny, even when you think it might be in your best interest, don't do it. If you must help your parents or anyone some day, make sure you have been settled, made, have everything you need in place first (your own home, established career, strong relationships, etc) because only then you will be in a position to help, truely.

#2 it's easy to fall back into abusive esfj moms, because they can make us feel good, at the same time they will create your world and manipulate things around you so that no one else can or will help or support you- people will more liekly to judge you and believe you're already taken care of, so I can't stress #1 enough. You are always going to want your mom to love you, and may never give up on that> it's a painful place to be, and I wish I had better advice on the love part, as I'm still trying to figure that out myself, but one thing going back in time, i woudl definitely make sure about the finances. Pls feel free to pm me too about anything.
 
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Truth is absolute, and therefore, values can be boolean absolutes. While humans are imperfect, unable to achieve perfection - we should still aim to achieve perfection, even if we will never reach it. That is my judgement, which is inevitably subjective and which I hold to be superior over that of my children.



I teach my children that pain is weakness leaving their body. Moreover, I don't care what judgement the child makes if they are hit, nor do I care about who started it or what the reason is. All I want is my child to be victorious and hit back where it hurts, hard. And boy, do they succeed. Domination is an alpha trait.

But to answer your question. Yes a child is able to interpret whether they were hit or not. It is sensory information. They are not able to discern between being hit or being abused, however.


I place more value in the muscular strength of my children to survive life-threatening situations in society. Because societies..they don't tend to last long.



I am professionally involved in assessing and mitigating risks. Not only my children, but entire companies rely on my ability to manage crisis-situations if necessary. While my way of dealing with risk is subjective, it is the most educated and professional prespective on methodical management of risk.

Still, I do not wish my children to be dependent on my evaluation of risk till they grow up to be manchildren. When my kid was a toddler, she approached burning ember in my indoor fireplace. She tried to grab a piece of wood which was emanating a pretty orange glow.

I could have stopped her, but instead I let her touch the piece of wood. She shrieked and cried after doing so, realizing that the pretty piece of wood is hot. Since that day, I never had to shadowstep my child while she roamed the house fearing she might fall into the fireplace.


Children are incapable of making that judgement. All they think about is eat, drink, shit and play.

Sadly, we live in a time were effiminate degenerates are inclined to cut off the balls of their son because he tried wearing his mom's skirt for fun. Good thing my values are superior compared to the progressive wave of degeneracy that is plagueing the lands.
EXE are you sure you are an ESFJ. You speak in a massive amount of T. There is no F in anything you have said except you've thrown in the word "subjective" a couple of times for good measure.

You sound more like an objective INTJ. Stand back and let them learn from their mistakes approach and "my values are superior"....very INTJ.
 

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EXE are you sure you are an ESFJ. You speak in a massive amount of T. There is no F in anything you have said except you've thrown in the word "subjective" a couple of times for good measure.

You sound more like an objective INTJ. Stand back and let them learn from their mistakes approach and "my values are superior"....very INTJ.
@Oceanwave, @EXE was banned from the forum.

However, don't let the fact that @EXE tested as an ESFJ bother you. It doesn't mean you're abusive too, like my mother. For one thing, my mother had a personality disorder, and for all we know, @EXE does too. For another, I'm quoting from "ESFJ Personal Growth" here: http://personalitycafe.com/esfj-articles/114114-esfj-personal-growth.html

"Without a sound appreciation of the concrete world, an ESFJ may show some or all of the following weaknesses in varying degrees:
May be unable to correctly judge what really is for the best
May become spiteful and extremely intractable in the face of clear, logical reasoning
May be unable to shrug off feelings that others are not "good people"
May be unable to acknowledge anything that goes against their certainty about the "correct" or "right" way to do things
May attribute their own problems to arbitrary and unprovable notions about the way people "ought" to behave
May be at a loss when confronted with situations that require basic technical expertise or clear thinking
May be oblivious to all but their own viewpoint, valuing their own viewpoint, valuing their own certainties to the exclusion of others
May be unable to understand verbal logic, and quickly cut off other's explanations
May be falsely certain of the true needs and feeling of others
May be extremely vulnerable to superstitions, religious cults, and media manipulation
May react too quickly and too emotionally in a situation better dealt with in a more pragmatic fashion"

ESFJs can find themselves waging a self created war against all that opposes their own. This conflict often expresses itself in various unambiguous and simplistic "Us verses Them" generalities, or a penchant for smugly and narrowly defining other people by arbitrary or superstitious belief systems, which often actually symbolise and define their own conflict. At its worst, this conflict with the obstinate and unfeeling contingent realities of the world creates a situation where the ESFJ retreats to a kind of psychological castle where, not only none but those who have the "right" or "nice" approach can enter, but also where the ESFJs feeling based and often tortured logic, attitudes and judgments reign supreme and cannot be questioned; a place where: "give and you shall receive" can ironically twist quickly into: "off with his head!"
The main driver to the ESFJ personality is Extraverted Feeling, whose function is to judge the relative human value of the ideas, behaviours, situations and objects they perceive. The resulting world view is tidy, and ordered according to its worth to the ESFJ's own particular character: "Everything has its place and everything in its place". If this picture of the world is threatened by external influences, the ESFJ generally tries to shut such new information out of their lives. This is totally natural, and works well to protect the individual psyche from getting hurt. However, the ESFJ who exercises this type of self-protection regularly will find they can only connect and relate with those who do not actively disturb their increasingly narrow and rigid world view. They will always find justification for their own inappropriate behaviours, and will always find fault with the outside world for problems that they have in their lives. It will be difficult for them to maintain the flexibility needed for a healthy relationship with the messy world outside because the differing ways others value things is a constant affront to their personal judgements.
Sounds like this is what went on with @EXE and also with my mother. First of all she got absorbed with her religion to the point where she'd rather cut off her own child and she had the "off with her head" worldview with me. Toxic relationship to the extreme as a result.

As I said before, this has to factor in a personality disorder as well.
 

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@Oceanwave, @EXE was banned from the forum.

However, don't let the fact that @EXE tested as an ESFJ bother you. It doesn't mean you're abusive too, like my mother. For one thing, my mother had a personality disorder, and for all we know, @EXE does too. For another, I'm quoting from "ESFJ Personal Growth" here: http://personalitycafe.com/esfj-articles/114114-esfj-personal-growth.html



Sounds like this is what went on with @EXE and also with my mother. First of all she got absorbed with her religion to the point where she'd rather cut off her own child and she had the "off with her head" worldview with me. Toxic relationship to the extreme as a result.

As I said before, this has to factor in a personality disorder as well.
Thanks for posting this.

I've read this before, several times, on my own journey of self improvement.

I've got an ESFJ conspiracy theory friend which I was so surprised about that believes far fetched stories in the media and another that doesn't get verbal reasoning. It's a conversation stopper because he really doesn't know how to reply sometimes as he doesn't understand and then he says he's thick when he's not. He also struggles with other people's view points and shuts you down when you try to explain but he's a really lovely guy, very funny and sensitive.

I've been working on apologising and learn't really young (from one uncomfortable incident) not to assume people need help when they don't.

I guess that's why I'm still here despite the ESFJ negativity because I want to know about other peoples perspectives.

The one listed that applied to me, apart from apologising, was not reacting emotionally and finding a pragmatic way so I checked in with an ISTP friend who gave the best and simplest answer.. it's so simple I can't understand how I didn't think of it except that I was too close to the situation, the answer was walk away. Brilliant!!

There is one thing I've never understood though, violence and dictatorship....I've rambled on, that's for another thread.

Things can be tough for some people Jane Elliott. Hope you are in a good place now.

Oh and one other, if someone is banned, how can they still post! It's not logical.
 

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Thanks for posting this.

I've read this before, several times, on my own journey of self improvement.

I've got an ESFJ conspiracy theory friend which I was so surprised about that believes far fetched stories in the media and another that doesn't get verbal reasoning. It's a conversation stopper because he really doesn't know how to reply sometimes as he doesn't understand and then he says he's thick when he's not. He also struggles with other people's view points and shuts you down when you try to explain but he's a really lovely guy, very funny and sensitive.

I've been working on apologising and learn't really young (from one uncomfortable incident) not to assume people need help when they don't.

I guess that's why I'm still here despite the ESFJ negativity because I want to know about other peoples perspectives.

The one listed that applied to me, apart from apologising, was not reacting emotionally and finding a pragmatic way so I checked in with an ISTP friend who gave the best and simplest answer.. it's so simple I can't understand how I didn't think of it except that I was too close to the situation, the answer was walk away. Brilliant!!

There is one thing I've never understood though, violence and dictatorship....I've rambled on, that's for another thread.

Things can be tough for some people Jane Elliott. Hope you are in a good place now.

Oh and one other, if someone is banned, how can they still post! It's not logical.
@Oceanwave, I believe @EXE got banned after the last post. But it was very enlightening, to follow the train of thought, although agonizing for me, to think about her boys, and the abuse they must be going through.

You seem like a caring person. It's not your fault there are ESFJs who aren't. Remember, your personality type constitutes a large portion of the population. I can't remember the exact percentage, but I believe it's 10% or even a little more. My own, INTP, is something like 3%, and of that, just 1% women. There are bound to be good and bad people in any mix.
 

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That's the thing sweetheart. Kids aren't capable of judgement when it comes to assessing their environment. I make my child eat the dirt off my shoe to speak, and she will do it because she understands the age-old tradition of respecting your parents. Now the newer generation doesn't and I feel blessed for having brought up a child that is neither spoiled nor foul in attitude.

Trust me, I don't give a rats-ass about the feelings of my kids nor do I care about their intelligence. As long as they do what is right and obey commands. In other words, kids are reliant on the judgement of their superiors, and should inquire based on their feelings and perception, rather than act upon it and decide to make decisions like not respecting their parents.
I also sincerely hope you are trolling:dry:... Why on earth would you respect someone who abused you? And you think that just because they're a kid they can't tell they're being abused? I'm sorry, but If you truly think that, you must be an absolutely horrible person:sad:... And you don't care about their feelings?! That's awful! I hope your kids are ok, because from this post you do NOT seem fit to have them:crying:!
 

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How are you doing caregivers?

The reason i`m opening this thread is that i have an abusive ESFJ mother (I made her take the test) and she has been trying to destroy my free-will and self-confidence all the time.

The things she does:

1 - She tries to control me

She always tries to guilt trip me like "you are such a psycho for making me feel this bad" and when i tell her that she is being too sensitive she just starts going into rage mode (and i just get up and go to my room and lock the door not talking to her again for days).She always tells me what i should do,What i should wear,I should be more sensitive etc.) and when i tell her that i dont value emotional decisions but i undersand her she just flips off (seriously do ESFJ`s have a sense of self-awareness?) and she is never tired of making drama and trying to get everyone to switch to her side.

We were discussing about improvements she could make to her room and she just said jokingly "did you find my dildo or something?" (WTF?!) i told her that i`m not comfortable talking about her sex toys and she just started screaming at me "why are you being so mean?why are you so blah blah blah"

2 - She made my sister go against me

My sister being the ENFJ she always tries to suck up to her,make her feel like she`s in control etc.I had a long talk with her about how important is her freedom and gave her logical (and quasi-emotional) reasons why she should draw boundaries to the control my mom has over her.I`ve always cared my sister and protected her through my childhood and now my sister doesn`t want me to talk to her anymore because i upset her dear mother.I must admit i felt betrayed as i tried my entire life to keep her away from the emotional abuse my mother provokes on her.


3 - She gives people she barely knows big amounts of money to make herself look like someone important

My step-father`s family is full of ex-robbers and simple beggers and my mom just circles these lazy bums around her and sweet-talk to them,then gives them at least 50-100 dollars after the bums tell her how great she is,how nice she is,how beautiful she is etc (she is simply paying people to give her validation)



1 week ago i just couldn`t keep my emotions inside me anymore (after all these years of being beaten up and told off) and what i did was just go up to her and tell her that she has failed as a mother and a protector (being separated from my dad my mom is the only one that gives us food,clothes etc.) and i `cant stand her incompetence anymore.All she did was lose huge amounts of money while being pricked by others for money and doing her best to feel like she has control over us.

When i tell her that i love her (which comes out in an awkward voice) she just tells me that i`m lying.

Now the question:

How do i keep her away from me and my children (when i`ll have) as i move out?

Is there any chance i might make her less abusive and more loving?(the only way i can continue talking to her.)
I cant really imagen a esfj is abusif , for wat i know about esfj , they ussaly are , honnest , nice , sweet , understanding , carring and proitective .
 

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Emotional arguments don't really work either. I've told my mom (ESFJ) that I "feel" this way and she ignores it if she doesn't like it. Then she twists words into how she interprets them. It drives me insane. My advice is pick your battles and walk away. You can't change other people. It is what it is.
Because deep down, ESFJ's only care about how they feel. If it is how you feel, then you have to rephrase it, and make it about them. Who in the world tolerates ESFJ's?
 

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Because deep down, ESFJ's only care about how they feel. If it is how you feel, then you have to rephrase it, and make it about them. Who in the world tolerates ESFJ's?
No, Hon. The majority of us DO care about others. We care about others and what people think of us (not "we care for others BECAUSE we care what people think of us")

Get your facts straight. There is always a bad apple in every group. Please don't assume we're all cookie cutter the same.
 
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