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I'm in a situation.... and I need some advice from INTJs. The ENFJ & ESFJ in this situation are family members... and the ENFJ is currently making many important life decisions.

There's an age gap, and when I was his age, I was faced with almost the exact same choices and held the same opinions he does now. However, i either didn't have any knowledge or wrong information, so I had to settle for choices i wasn't sure about. years down the line, i now have this knowledge and resources, and one of the things i overcame recently was getting over this. I spent some of my early years of "adulthood" beating myself up that i made a decision based on an uninformed opinion. I'm over it now, it was a learning experience.

Years down the line, I now have more knowledge and resources to look to in this aspect. I was asked for help by ENFJ & ESFJ, and I spent a lot of time collecting resources, information, and a LOT of time and effort. however, when it came down to it, a decision was made... completely disregarding all the research I did. The reasons? "Because everyone else is doing something else." My research/help was invalidated because it didn't match with what they saw everyone else doing. Plus, the ESFJ's reasons? "Nobody in authority has even mentioned any of the stuff you showed us...." And another reason my help was invalidated was because "You made a mistake for yourself... why should we listen to what you say now?" This made me upset, because I had spent so much time collecting information and a lot of time/effort contacting different people/organizations. Why ask in the first place, if that's what they were going to say in the first place?

I guess... I just want them to CONSIDER the information I've collected. Honestly, if I had someone to help me and tell me all of this when I was making my own decisions, I would've been so thankful and it would've changed so many things. This is a sensitive issue for me... because I myself didn't have any of this knowledge/resources when making the decision. They even acknowledge on a regular basis that I didn't have access to these resources when I was at that age. And now I want to help. I guess my protective/counseling side is coming out here. I just want them to make a decision based on all the resources that are now available to them. Instead of making a decision based on what everyone else is doing and following the tradition, which is what I did and... yeah, I just feel the ENFJ has SO much potential. And with all these resources to help him, he can really succeed in this path... This has happened several times this year, and each time, I told him my opinion, helped out with research, only to have my opinion completely disregarded. And each time, I was in a situation where I could say "I told you so...." because my (informed) hypothesis turned out to be right.

Sorry for the long post. I'll edit this after dinner and make it more concise... But if anyone has advice on how I could reason with them, that would be great. For me, it all looks so obvious. "The point is... look, you're making this decision. I felt the same way you did when I was your age, but I lacked the knowledge and resources. And now we have access to all this information... and I think you could benefit by at least giving it a chance to look at. Can you consider this information before you make your decision?" I've already let too many times go by where I should've stood by my opinion more firmly. I just want to help them... with all the resources available, it seems reasonable to at least take a look at it, instead of making the same stupid mistake i did. So any advice as to the best way to relay this information? Whats the most logical way to lay this out or to articulate my opinions?
 

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I'm in a situation.... and I need some advice from INTJs. The ENFJ & ESFJ in this situation are family members... and the ENFJ is currently making many important life decisions.

There's an age gap, and when I was his age, I was faced with almost the exact same choices and held the same opinions he does now. However, i either didn't have any knowledge or wrong information, so I had to settle for choices i wasn't sure about. years down the line, i now have this knowledge and resources, and one of the things i overcame recently was getting over this. I spent some of my early years of "adulthood" beating myself up that i made a decision based on an uninformed opinion. I'm over it now, it was a learning experience.

Years down the line, I now have more knowledge and resources to look to in this aspect. I was asked for help by ENFJ & ESFJ, and I spent a lot of time collecting resources, information, and a LOT of time and effort. however, when it came down to it, a decision was made... completely disregarding all the research I did. The reasons? "Because everyone else is doing something else." My research/help was invalidated because it didn't match with what they saw everyone else doing. Plus, the ESFJ's reasons? "Nobody in authority has even mentioned any of the stuff you showed us...." And another reason my help was invalidated was because "You made a mistake for yourself... why should we listen to what you say now?" This made me upset, because I had spent so much time collecting information and a lot of time/effort contacting different people/organizations. Why ask in the first place, if that's what they were going to say in the first place?

I guess... I just want them to CONSIDER the information I've collected. Honestly, if I had someone to help me and tell me all of this when I was making my own decisions, I would've been so thankful and it would've changed so many things. This is a sensitive issue for me... because I myself didn't have any of this knowledge/resources when making the decision. They even acknowledge on a regular basis that I didn't have access to these resources when I was at that age. And now I want to help. I guess my protective/counseling side is coming out here. I just want them to make a decision based on all the resources that are now available to them. Instead of making a decision based on what everyone else is doing and following the tradition, which is what I did and... yeah, I just feel the ENFJ has SO much potential. And with all these resources to help him, he can really succeed in this path... This has happened several times this year, and each time, I told him my opinion, helped out with research, only to have my opinion completely disregarded. And each time, I was in a situation where I could say "I told you so...." because my (informed) hypothesis turned out to be right.

Sorry for the long post. I'll edit this after dinner and make it more concise... But if anyone has advice on how I could reason with them, that would be great. For me, it all looks so obvious. "The point is... look, you're making this decision. I felt the same way you did when I was your age, but I lacked the knowledge and resources. And now we have access to all this information... and I think you could benefit by at least giving it a chance to look at. Can you consider this information before you make your decision?" I've already let too many times go by where I should've stood by my opinion more firmly. I just want to help them... with all the resources available, it seems reasonable to at least take a look at it, instead of making the same stupid mistake i did. So any advice as to the best way to relay this information? Whats the most logical way to lay this out or to articulate my opinions?
These are only theories, so they may or may not work. By necessity, I'm trying to figure out ways to get my messages across to Fe types myself.

1. Prime them. Get them into a rational state of mind by asking them how to spell a few complicated words (like hors doeuvres) or have them calculate percentages or arithmetic in their heads. THEN pop your real issue. By making them think logically at first, you have their mind in a logical mindset, and you can quickly pose your stance when their brain is in that mode.

2. Failing that, cater to their peopley ways. Frame any logical arguments and try to color them with emotion, and group inclusion. Use a lot of "we", "us", "our", etc.
 

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Are these religiously or politically motivated decisions? If they are, you can give up reasoning about them. Most people make these types of decisions based on feelings and social desires to fit in.

Honestly, I would ask the ENFP forum. They are good with people. Maybe they will have good advice for you.

INTJ's are very good at convincing people to see our way when we are dealing with a team of professionals and when we know what we are talking about. Personal emotionally based decision is not an area where we are persuasive. For the most part, as long as we can avoid the consequences of a poor decision-- we are likely to keep our mouths shut and avoid the confrontation entirely.

Furthermore, it seems we rarely have any success getting someone of the ESFJ or ENFJ personality type to change their mind about an emotionally based decision.

If we do decide to give advice about a personal subject-- then we are likely to do just what you did-- explain the rather long list of reasons why they might want to reconsider their decision. Apparently, that did not work for you. Oh well, you tried. When this happens to me, I just keep my mouth shut around the person and leave them to their life. It seems this person has ignored you in the past, so that is what I would do from now on.
 

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Chinese torture method? Drip by drip...

Leave the information out somewhere where it might be read?

corner them individualy and ogre them until they submit to your cunning plan?

call an intervention? etc

I would rather know the specifics before getting into ways on how to go about which is appropriate....everything is subjective to me.
 
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