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Forum Conspiracy Theorist
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I just want to make sure I understand the dynamics of this thing... as I grasp it you're not exactly distorting space in front of the spacecraft and stretching it behind it: Instead you are actually taking a piece of space you occupy and moving it through space by effectively pushing/pulling it against the remaining fabric of space nearby!

Effectively it's like taking a piece of fabric, cutting it up, putting it on roller blades and rolling it across the rest of the carpet. As we have a limit to the speed of light, but cosmic expansion seems to know no limit.

You move your piece of carpet by compressing the fabric of space in front of that piece of carpet so as to pull it across; the fabric of space behind it is sort of "stretched" which serves to "push" it along.

Did I get it right?

The question I have is (provided it works)

1.) If you're using the forces of cosmic expansion: What keeps us from draining all the energy of cosmic expansion up? This would at first slow the increasing rate of expansion of the universe down; then actually slow the rate of overall expansion down; then you'd actually stop. From there you'd start collapsing.

2.) Though energy is taken to generate this warp, is any energy somehow being put back?
 

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I've seen Event Horizon. I know how this shit plays out. We all tear out our eyes in insanity. Then Laurence Fishburne tries to save humanity but you can't stop the evil from leaving people's minds.
 

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(ノ´ヮ´)ノ*:・゚✧
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BTW: This thread I meant to go in the Science and Technology section so could one of the moderators please move it there
 

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Try to think of it more as a surfer riding a wave.
 

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Auntie Duckie
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@Bloodbraid

What the hell does this have to do with my thread?
Well, Event Horizon was a science fiction movie, and the Alcubierre Warp Drive is a "science fiction" drawn idea:

Alternate View Column AV-81

[gr-qc/9702026] The unphysical nature of "Warp Drive"

However, the link to the paper by Miguel Alcubierre is no longer working. To get a copy you might be able to contact:


Phone:+44 (0)29 208 76457
Email:[email protected]


Hope this helps (and stop being so mean... jeez...)

:kitteh:


-ZDD

 

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Discussion Starter #7

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Auntie Duckie
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Didn't they do this in ST:TNG or DS9? I remember an episode where they created a wave and used a specially crafted ship to sail the wave FTL.



-ZDD
 

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@Zombie Devil Duckie

It was called a soliton wave if I recall. Regardless, it looks like the warp drive would basically create it's own continuous soliton wave.

Regardless, my question is

1.) If you're using the forces of cosmic expansion: What keeps us from draining all the energy of cosmic expansion up? This would at first slow the increasing rate of expansion of the universe down; then actually slow the rate of overall expansion down; then you'd actually stop. From there you'd start collapsing.

2.) Though energy is taken to generate this warp, is any energy somehow being put back?
 
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1.) If you're using the forces of cosmic expansion: What keeps us from draining all the energy of cosmic expansion up? This would at first slow the increasing rate of expansion of the universe down; then actually slow the rate of overall expansion down; then you'd actually stop. From there you'd start collapsing.

2.) Though energy is taken to generate this warp, is any energy somehow being put back?
This makes absolutely no sense at all.

Where have you seen/read/heard about the 'energy of cosmic expansion'??? It's not even known for sure if the universe is expanding, contracting, or static.
 

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From the description of the drive, it doesn't sound as though it "uses" the energy of cosmic expansion; it sounds more like it creates a localized phenomenon that somewhat resembles cosmic expansion, or that works on the same principles. If it was riding a wave that was already there, then your concerns would be warranted. Instead, what it sounds like the drive does is expend energy to disturb space and create a new wave. Energy is added to the system, rather than taken away, and then the energy added is consumed as it does work on the ship by moving it, so there's zero net change - assuming, of course, that a classical physics concept like work applies to space-time; I'm no physicist, so I don't really know.
 

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I just want to make sure I understand the dynamics of this thing... as I grasp it you're not exactly distorting space in front of the spacecraft and stretching it behind it: Instead you are actually taking a piece of space you occupy and moving it through space by effectively pushing/pulling it against the remaining fabric of space nearby!
No you're confusing two different hypothetical drives.

Alcubierre drive: You can't travel FTL so you must squash space, move through it, with space expanding behind you. The effect is that you travel faster than light in the reference frame of an external observer, but slower than light in your own reference frame. Takes advantage of a vast amount of energy to develop relativistic effects that deform spacetime. This is designed to dodge the law of physics that information cannot travel faster than the speed of light

Woodward drive: A reactionless slower-than-light drive, that effectively 'pushes' off the momentum of the rest of the universe. Takes advantage of quantum fluctuations in mass.
This is designed to dodge the law of conservation of momentum and the need for reaction mass in a space drive.
 

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@associative

Yes but with the Alcubierre the crew would feel no movement... if you produced a gravity well in front of it you'd feel like you were falling into the well; if you produced a negative well behind it -- well, you'd feel like you were being pushed.

Also gravity waves propagate at light-speed
 

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@associative

Yes but with the Alcubierre the crew would feel no movement... if you produced a gravity well in front of it you'd feel like you were falling into the well; if you produced a negative well behind it -- well, you'd feel like you were being pushed.

Also gravity waves propagate at light-speed
When you are in freefall you do not experience gravity. It would be the same as floating in space.

An interesting comment about the the propagation of gravitational waves. Something for me to think about.
 

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@associative

You definitely feel yourself falling...
As opposed to standing up, right? Remember you would be in space, so weightless.
When you fall on (or at least near :tongue:) earth, you will also experience wind resistance. This would not be relevant inside a space capsule.


Free-falling in space feels like floating in space. If you closed your eyes, you wouldn't know the difference.
 

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@associative

You definitely feel yourself falling...
No you don't. You feel yourself accelerating.

Free-falling in space feels like floating in space. If you closed your eyes, you wouldn't know the difference.
Free-falling on earth feels like that too. If you closed your eyes, you wouldn't know if you were the one rushing through the air, or the air was just rushing past you while you didn't move anywhere.
 
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