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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've been thinking a lot about the integration/disintegration points, and it seems like alternative lines could just as easily be rationalized.

to use a few examples:

1) 6-->1: healthy 6s draw newly found strength from their convictions. a strong connection to 1 would make 6s the most heroic type on the Enneagram, defending the weak and drawing strength and passion from their ideals, a source of security that cannot be damaged or shaken by any external force.

The power lies within you
If you give it form
it will give you strength

~Kingdom Hearts​

2) 4-->9: 4's virtue is equanimity, and what type is more relaxed and at peace than a 9? (tbh, most of the reactive types could use a healthy dosage of 9. those mutha fuckaz need to CHILL :tongue: )

3) 8-->1: like 6s, I think 8s could benefit from some of the higher aspects of 1. at their core, both 8s and 1s are justice oriented types, but the 8's sense of "justice" is more primitive, lacking patience for what they perceive to be the more heady/"lilly livered" aspects of the 1's morality and often reacting sans rational justification with significant consequences (a paradox of type 8 is that, in his quest for power and control, the 8's anger often ends up controlling him). while just as powerful, the 1's sense of principles and self control could pull in the reigns on the 8's anger and give his sense of justice more clarity and focus. with this integration, the 8 would begin focusing on an internal rather than external locus of control, focusing on controling themselves rather than their environments to achieve their ends.

A wild fire destroys everything in its path. it will be the same with your powers unless you learn to control them
~Giovanni to Mewtwo (Pokemon the First Movie)​

4) 9-->7: 9s are self forgetting, suffer from feelings of insignificance and often fail to separate themselves from their environment. integration to 7 would fill the 9 with desire, elevate their self worth (which 7s are never in short supply of) and contribute a sense of exuberance and excitement that would put an end to the 9s sense of apathy and insignificance.
 

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The integration/disintegration points have become dogma that really needs to be phased out if one is to truly understand how to use the Enneagram to grow.

THe wings of the enneagram shows the outward shifts of each type, while the internal lines show us the internal shifts that each types experience. Within each type lies the domain of the types that is represented by each line they are connected to. A 7 has access to the domain of the 1 and the domain of the 5, but neither one of the two points contains a state of growth or undoing. A swing to any point without the other invites disaster and will cause various stresses on the individual. The path to actual integration means that the two domains that are represented by the points need to be balanced with one another and brought together into a cohesive whole, without doing so, the ego will have an easier time asserting itself and the imbalanced individual will find themselves out of alignment.
 

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2) 4-->9: 4's virtue is equanimity, and what type is more relaxed and at peace than a 9? (tbh, most of the reactive types could use a healthy dosage of 9. those mutha fuckaz need to CHILL :tongue: )
1. Equanimity is not about being chill. It's about being satisfied with the present experience, and not constantly being in touch with what's missing or longing for more.

2. Being reactive is not about being explosive or constantly on edge.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
1. Equanimity is not about being chill. It's about being satisfied with the present experience, and not constantly being in touch with what's missing or longing for more.
fair enough. 9 still works imo

2. Being reactive is not about being explosive or constantly on edge.
I never said they were, but most of them still need to chill (maybe I'm biased and expecting them to be like a positive outlook-er)
 

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I get that types could benefit from incorporating some of the nature from another type, but I don't think that's what the inner lines of change are about.

For instance, yes, there's a lot about 7s, even on an internal level, that I could benefit much from by incorporating. But the connection to 3 is about how 9s habitually move attention off themselves on a number of levels and lose drive through a progressive dilution of life. 9s through loss of their holy idea experience a lack of meaning in their experience, and that is the problem that needs to be dealt with. 7 would be a nice solution, but without re-investing in one's experience, the problem itself can't be solved.

I am coming around though, to the idea that we need to pay attention to the balance between the two points moreso than simply integration. The underlying problem in 9 is as much a doubting of the substantiality of one's experience as it is a deceitful recreation of meaning based on what one wants it to be (a simulation of happiness or substantiality). In fact, the activity of 9 can become a life-long problem precisely because there's an oscillation between doubting that one's experience is worthwhile and pulling from a drive that creates "meaning" that's quite worth the doubt inward-looking 9s so often give it.

But that's just been my experience as a self-identifying 9. ymmv
 

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I get that types could benefit from incorporating some of the nature from another type, but I don't think that's what the inner lines of change are about.

I am coming around though, to the idea that we need to pay attention to the balance between the two points moreso than simply integration.
i agree.

the way i understand the connection lines, is that they're just that -- a connection to another type that is more often exhibited than to other possible types. it may be a positive or a negative connection in nature, and it's not something a person really controls. a person vacillates through these connections at times, sometimes exhibiting characteristics of one type more than some other. and every type has positive and negative qualities, ergo any one connection can bring positive or negative influence.

i think a type grows healthier within their own frame, the way any individual becomes healthier psychologically, by being at peace with themselves and their life in general. you don't need a connection to a whole different personality in order to be healthy. it's actually the reverse, you need a healthy connection to yourself in order to 'integrate'/be healthy.
 

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Alternative integration/disintegration points within the harmonic triads would make much more sense. At the moment I only have the reactive triad figured out.

Integration:
4 -> 6: Making less emotional decisions, thinking things through and connecting with people.
6 -> 8: Confidence and peace of mind (stop 'thinking') via feeling capable of handling any obstacle as they come.
8 -> 4: Getting in touch with sensitive emotions, lift denial of emotions.

Disintegration:
8 -> 6: Doubt of self, unsure about the intentions of other people.
6 -> 4: Feeling separate from others, impulsive emotional decisions.
4 -> 8: Becoming demanding, controlling.
 

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1. Equanimity is not about being chill. It's about being satisfied with the present experience, and not constantly being in touch with what's missing or longing for more.
I define it as being in balance, and not being skewed toward favoring one emotion over another.
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Integration:
4 -> 6: Making less emotional decisions, thinking things through and connecting with people.
is 6 about connecting with people?

6 -> 8: Confidence and peace of mind (stop 'thinking') via feeling capable of handling any obstacle as they come.
the problem with this is, 8s don't have peace of mind either. the answer to 6s problems is not aggression or dominance (the number of unhealthy, 8 fixed cp 6s is evidence enough of that)

8 -> 4: Getting in touch with sensitive emotions, lift denial of emotions.
actually, this works well

8 -> 6: Doubt of self, unsure about the intentions of other people.
this sounds more like an 8 fixed 6 disintegrating than an 8. even in the unhealthy range, 8s experience little self doubt. there is something to be said about the being unsure of other people's intentions part though. some unhealthy 8s can become quite paranoid (overall, 5w6 or 6w5 would make sense for a disintegration point)

6 -> 4: Feeling separate from others, impulsive emotional decisions.
this sorta works. I could see type 6 disintegrating in a number of directions. 2, 3 and 8 mostly.

4 -> 8: Becoming demanding, controlling.
I could see that (Maria Callas comes to mind immediately)
 

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I think integrating to any of the Id types would benefit 9s greatly
Id yes, I don't think 7 works though, the shared ability to avoid reality, the dislike of discomfort/pain and positive focus wouldn't be or lead to integration imo. My w8 is a powerful place and even if it doesn't show in a positive way it always gives strength and encourages action. Integration to 3 with the drive and activity it encourages along with the pride in self and achievements is definitely positive and pushes things forward. While my 7 fix can keep thing fun and get over-excited at anything and everything however there's no push to move to a place of discomfort in order to improve things and invest in life.
 
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1: Having some sort of routine and self-discipline can be helpful for me now considering the hermetic state I'm in. Either that, or increase my stress/boredom.

2: Again, this would allow me to escape myself and seek out others again. I could honestly use some selflessness and humility.

7: Can help for a bit, but will probably end up being self-destructive. I've tried it before and usually any new experience ends up feeling anhedonic and isn't helpful in settling whatever I'm going through.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
1: Having some sort of routine and self-discipline can be helpful for me now considering the hermetic state I'm in. Either that, or increase my stress/boredom.
2: Again, this would allow me to escape myself and seek out others again. I could honestly use some selflessness and humility.
7: Can help for a bit, but will probably end up being self-destructive. I've tried it before and usually any new experience ends up feeling anhedonic and isn't helpful in settling whatever I'm going through.
the story in your other thread is an example of why I think many 6s can disintegrate to 9 rather than integrate.
 

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the story in your other thread is an example of why I think many 6s can disintegrate to 9 rather than integrate.
My disintegration is a strange blend of 3 narcissism and 9 withdrawal/sloth. My healthier state (around levels 3-4) feels more like a pronounced 7 wing with more interest in making plans and socializing but not as Id-ish.
 

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I think most 6w7s are 9-ish by default. Notice how 6w7 comedians like Louis Ck and Dave Chappelle talk about regular lazy people sh-t like reluctantly feeding their dogs, masturbating, watching tv commercials at 2 AM and going to their barber, while 7w6 comedians talk about all of their wacky hijinks.
 
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