Personality Cafe banner

1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
55 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I find being an ESTJ I'm a forward thinker and want to get everything done, so often I put my hand up to organise tasks or be the initiator of a group undertaking. The problem being is that sometimes you expect people to help and went they don't the disappointment can be overwhelming.

I do have a strong personality :rolleyes: which at times I need to keep in check. Do you as an ESTJ have this challenge? It's hard to not get disappointed with people's apathy or lack of assistance.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,856 Posts
I find being an ESTJ I'm a forward thinker and want to get everything done, so often I put my hand up to organise tasks or be the initiator of a group undertaking. The problem being is that sometimes you expect people to help and went they don't the disappointment can be overwhelming.

I do have a strong personality :rolleyes: which at times I need to keep in check. Do you as an ESTJ have this challenge? It's hard to not get disappointed with people's apathy or lack of assistance.
Yes, I have had this issue in the past.

What I've found helps is to assign myself boundaries. I determine what I will do and what I won't do before the project gets started, and I make those boundaries very clear. This helps establish clear lines of ownership, and it makes people responsible for their piece.

When you refuse to be the YES man who covers everybody else's ass, people are forced to step up and help or fail.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,767 Posts
I find being an ESTJ I'm a forward thinker and want to get everything done, so often I put my hand up to organise tasks or be the initiator of a group undertaking. The problem being is that sometimes you expect people to help and went they don't the disappointment can be overwhelming.

I do have a strong personality :rolleyes: which at times I need to keep in check. Do you as an ESTJ have this challenge? It's hard to not get disappointed with people's apathy or lack of assistance.
The thing is, in every group there will always be a couple of people that just don't do crap. I want the project to be finished on time, so there is no other choice than to keep a constant eye on those potatoes.

Same thing with the finishing touches. People leave everything sloppy (different sized letters, no paragraphs, etc), which I find unacceptable. So in the end I'm still fixing their shit while they are already back to slacking off. The alternative however is failure, which won't happen while I'm around.

On the bright side, companies are far more pleased with us than with them, so in the end it is natural selection. ^^
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
241 Posts
I find being an ESTJ I'm a forward thinker and want to get everything done, so often I put my hand up to organise tasks or be the initiator of a group undertaking. The problem being is that sometimes you expect people to help and went they don't the disappointment can be overwhelming.

I do have a strong personality :rolleyes: which at times I need to keep in check. Do you as an ESTJ have this challenge? It's hard to not get disappointed with people's apathy or lack of assistance.
you need to relax, not everything has to be organised, you just have to go with the flow. Also see how other people organised or do things different in ways, be more open mined, you might surprise yourself, its hard to admit to yourself, but its a good feeling when you discover something else. I personality respond to more kindness they, i work better, if someone is rude to me, less lightly I will do the past, simple as that, be easy on people, or course not too easy, there is a limit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,481 Posts
They might feel unencouraged or unwanted, "pushed out" of the planning and scared to speak up.

ESTJs expect everyone to be as blunt as they are and people just...aren't.

The healthiest ESTJs I've known have learned to built the people around them up by pointing out why they'd be good for something and encourage them. They don't just say "You do this". People take this to heart more than an ESTJ realizes because others see the ESTJ as fact oriented, not feeling oriented (which is true). Therefore if the ESTJ is saying it, it must be sincere.

That said group work is horrible and I don't wish it on anyone. There are people who are simply lazy and don't give a crap.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Witch of Oreo

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,856 Posts
They might feel unencouraged or unwanted, "pushed out" of the planning and scared to speak up.

ESTJs expect everyone to be as blunt as they are and people just...aren't.

The healthiest ESTJs I've known have learned to built the people around them up by pointing out why they'd be good for something and encourage them. They don't just say "You do this". People take this to heart more than an ESTJ realizes because others see the ESTJ as fact oriented, not feeling oriented (which is true). Therefore if the ESTJ is saying it, it must be sincere.

That said group work is horrible and I don't wish it on anyone. There are people who are simply lazy and don't give a crap.
Good points.

One thing I've learned helps others speak up is to ask the right kinds of questions and to often ask them in a roundabout way.

It can be better to ask a group "what objections might a teacher/client/user have with X and Y?" rather than asking a project member directly "what do you think of X and Y?"

By asking how some imagined person might see it, the person being asked gets to speak up without being personally put on the spot. It removes the personal element and makes them feel like it's a discussion rather than a battle of wills.
 

·
Beer Guardian
ENTP 5w6 So/Sx 584 ILE Honorary INTJ
Joined
·
15,846 Posts
I find being an ESTJ I'm a forward thinker and want to get everything done, so often I put my hand up to organise tasks or be the initiator of a group undertaking. The problem being is that sometimes you expect people to help and went they don't the disappointment can be overwhelming.

I do have a strong personality :rolleyes: which at times I need to keep in check. Do you as an ESTJ have this challenge? It's hard to not get disappointed with people's apathy or lack of assistance.
Thank you for being the one who takes charge of organizing things! Don't be disappointed because others don't want to join in. As much as you like doing the organizing, we like doing other things, like initiating new ideas, strategizing, and being creative. Organizing happens to be your talent. Recognize that organization is your unique contribution to the mix.
 

·
Plumcot
Joined
·
2,186 Posts
I'm not an ESTJ, but my one of my values include organization and planning. It makes me very uncomfortable when people tell me they will do something, and I end up waiting on them to do it. I've come to the realization that only I can do it since everyone else is fucking incompetent .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,767 Posts
I've come to the realization that only I can do it since everyone else is fucking incompetent.
Quoted for truth. It's what made high school/college projects hell: People screwing around all the time. I felt like the bloody teacher, constantly running around to keep an eye on what everyone is doing.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,856 Posts
Wow...it's interesting to see how many people take on other people's responsibilities in group work. How do you continue to let yourself be used by others? Doesn't that bother you more than whether or not a project finishes?
 

·
Plumcot
Joined
·
2,186 Posts
Quoted for truth. It's what made high school/college projects hell: People screwing around all the time. I felt like the bloody teacher, constantly running around to keep an eye on what everyone is doing.
Social loafing is the worse; people are stupid; beer is good :laughing:?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,767 Posts
Wow...it's interesting to see how many people take on other people's responsibilities in group work. How do you continue to let yourself be used by others? Doesn't that bother you more than whether or not a project finishes?
I want results more than anything, since I desire nothing more than to get out of the hellhole called education. Once I am able to sustain myself with a well paying job, I will allow myself to rest. If I decide to abandon ship once people are not doing their jobs, I will fail as well. I don't want to waste a year because of those idiots that will undoubtebly be replaced by a new set of idiots the year after. The only way to escape it is by getting a degree. So that's pretty much what my life revolves around right now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,058 Posts
I will say group work gets much easier at the Masters level, less people not caring (unless it's their last class, whoops).

The ESTJ organization superpower has always fascinated me. Hopefully being completely unorganized isn't too annoying to you (as it is my Achille's heel).
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,856 Posts
I want results more than anything, since I desire nothing more than to get out of the hellhole called education. Once I am able to sustain myself with a well paying job, I will allow myself to rest. If I decide to abandon ship once people are not doing their jobs, I will fail as well. I don't want to waste a year because of those idiots that will undoubtebly be replaced by a new set of idiots the year after. The only way to escape it is by getting a degree. So that's pretty much what my life revolves around right now.
You do realize that all the lazy people you're trying to escape from also graduate and enter the workforce with you, yeah?
 
  • Like
Reactions: haephestia

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,767 Posts
You do realize that all the lazy people you're trying to escape from also graduate and enter the workforce with you, yeah?
Yes, sadly. But what is the alternative? Neither of us graduating. After working for a single week the difference between me and them will be made clear in the workplace anyways.
 

·
MOTM July 2010
Joined
·
4,596 Posts
During elementary and junior high school, I care a lot about my grade. I stressed myself with taking more responsibility than others, then getting pissed off with others for using me to fix their mistakes or do their job. In addition, I was so uptight and disciplined, everybody hated me. The only time they talked to me was when they want something from me (and there was always someone who needed my help). I was there, half hated them for their incompetency and the way they used me, and half of me feeling sorry for their helplessness. I thought it was my responsibility to help.

Some people just don't give a shit about their grade, so they were slacking. They would agree to do things, but then they didn't do it. Or they did things but made a lot of mistakes, or the result is below the team's expectation. I care about my grade, and my grade depends on this stupid project and this incompetent team. So as much as I hated it, I still need to do something to save my own grade.

Then I went to high school. There were less team projects, more self-studies, because we have to prepare for the national exam and university application. Interestingly, my grades fell down. I wasn't as uptight as I used to be, and I care less about my grade. I was more interested with afterschool clubs (red cross, martial art, theater, religious group, student council, etc) where there were many events, teamwork, and organization activities that needed my organization skills.

Moved to university, I got accepted to the best university in my country. There were many smart and responsible classmates who really care about their grade. Interestingly, I got more and more lazy. A lot of time, I let other people took the responsibility. No more leadership for me, no more carrying other people's burden. My organization skill is no longer needed. Part of me was so relieved, finally I can just take care of myself. Yet for the first time in my life, I also felt useless, and in the end, that made me feel depressed.

Moral of the story, as much as I hated to be used by others and took more responsibility, I didn't realize that that was the most important thing that I actually need. ESTJs have a very strong sense of responsibility. We are the principals, the police, the judges. Being responsible and protective toward our community, being useful, as well as feeling needed by others, is what makes us thick. It is what we need. It is the core of being ESTJ. As long as there are others who need us to keep things running smoothly, we will always strive to do the best and be that person that everyone else can count on, especially if our sacrifice and dependability is recognized and appreciated.

When nobody needs us, then we will feel useless and sad. We might even feel lonely or depressed.

So my suggestion is, just enjoy it. Enjoy the responsibility and do your best with warm heart. No need to think ill of others' intention, or being upset with others for using you. Let go of all your negative emotions and just focus on making the project successful, for others and for yourself. The responsibility to keep things on the right track, is what makes you strive to do the best. Someday there will come a time when nobody needs you any longer, or your children left your house because they have become adults and they have their own life. When that time comes, you will missed those precious moments full of responsibilities where everybody needs you.

(yes, ESTJs are secretly masochists, lol)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
452 Posts

Moral of the story, as much as I hated to be used by others and took more responsibility, I didn't realize that that was the most important thing that I actually need. ESTJs have a very strong sense of responsibility. We are the principals, the police, the judges. Being responsible and protective toward our community, being useful, as well as feeling needed by others, is what makes us thick. It is what we need. It is the core of being ESTJ. As long as there are others who need us to keep things running smoothly, we will always strive to do the best and be that person that everyone else can count on, especially if our sacrifice and dependability is recognized and appreciated.

When nobody needs us, then we will feel useless and sad. We might even feel lonely or depressed.

This.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
55 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Thanks everyone for your feedback and sorry for the late reply!

I agree on not forcing others to do things because I want them done, I do also think it's fair for all parties to do what they say they were going to do! I guess it's a constant lesson to continue working on communication style and my own frustrations.

I do enjoy being the responsible one as mentioned by WickedQueen above, it does get immensely tired at times. Sometimes you just want someone to go, "Don't worry, I've already done it" Oh that sweet relief!

Another note is when you start relinquishing the responsibility by saying, "I don't know" or simply "nope, not doing it" magic happens and people figure out how to do things! Yes I'm a cynic/
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Yes, I love to organize all. And the organization of events I love too.
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top