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Hi,

I've hovered around as a silent observer for a long time (at least 5 years..). Anyway. I'm really confused about what personality type to consider myself. I know for certain that I use Ni, Te, Se and Fi. But I'm confused about which order I use them in. Essentially this is the difference between whether or not I am an extrovert or an introvert but I have lots of good reason to believe I am one or the other.

Reasons I might be an extrovert:

  • I am very confident and outgoing around people (although this hasn't always been the case).
  • I have been called a social butterfly because I have many, many friends of varying "levels" and I get around socially
  • I can be considered gregarious when I want to be
  • I can be incredibly good at reading people (although I can be a bit hopeless re: emotional content) and I seem to be better at it than some INTJ friends I know.

Reasons I might be an introvert:

  • Although I have many friends I am only emotionally vulnerable to 2 of them (very few people actually know the real me)
  • I have an incredibly rich inner world that can make me lose contact with the tangible world around me on a regular basis (read: I can be a bit of an air-head).
  • I am more productive when I'm alone than when I'm with people
  • I enjoy having space to myself and have deliberately cancelled plans by pretending to be sick just so I could be alone
  • Although I am great with people skills and have worked consistently in people-focused fields (healthcare and community work) I have had to admit to myself that a secret part of me doesn't like people -- that makes me feel guilty but it's true.

I seem to use Ni and Te almost equally which makes it more confusing. I'm wondering if any of you relate to my points and if you could provide some feedback? Would appreciate it!
 

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Hi,

I've hovered around as a silent observer for a long time (at least 5 years..). Anyway. I'm really confused about what personality type to consider myself. I know for certain that I use Ni, Te, Se and Fi. But I'm confused about which order I use them in. Essentially this is the difference between whether or not I am an extrovert or an introvert but I have lots of good reason to believe I am one or the other.

Reasons I might be an extrovert:

  • I am very confident and outgoing around people (although this hasn't always been the case).
  • I have been called a social butterfly because I have many, many friends of varying "levels" and I get around socially
  • I can be considered gregarious when I want to be
  • I can be incredibly good at reading people (although I can be a bit hopeless re: emotional content) and I seem to be better at it than some INTJ friends I know.

Reasons I might be an introvert:

  • Although I have many friends I am only emotionally vulnerable to 2 of them (very few people actually know the real me)
  • I have an incredibly rich inner world that can make me lose contact with the tangible world around me on a regular basis (read: I can be a bit of an air-head).
  • I am more productive when I'm alone than when I'm with people
  • I enjoy having space to myself and have deliberately cancelled plans by pretending to be sick just so I could be alone
  • Although I am great with people skills and have worked consistently in people-focused fields (healthcare and community work) I have had to admit to myself that a secret part of me doesn't like people -- that makes me feel guilty but it's true.

I seem to use Ni and Te almost equally which makes it more confusing. I'm wondering if any of you relate to my points and if you could provide some feedback? Would appreciate it!
I relate to all of them but the last one of your INTJ point. I don't mind people, but I choose my people XD
I think you're ENTJ! INTJs don't tend to have many friends from various walks of life, that's the main reason why I think you're ENTJ.
INTJ aren't all shy, it's just that they are most likely to stay in their comfort zone than explore out of it.
Do you feel drained or the need to recharge after any social conventions?
 

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This isn't enough information from which to draw any accurate Typing conclusions, but if this is all we have to work with ...

The fact that you've been sitting around "hovering" for five years rather than choosing to communicate with, and get feedback from others seems to indicate introversion.
 

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This isn't enough information from which to draw any accurate Typing conclusions, but if this is all we have to work with ...

The fact that you've been sitting around "hovering" for five years rather than chosing to communticate with, and get feedback from others seems to indicate introversion.
My thoughts exactly.
 

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@skydreamer Do you expend energy in interacting with people or do you get energized by it?

In the first case, you're likely INTJ.
 
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Being socially adept doesn't necessarily point to extroversion. This just means you have good social skills. You say that you are very outgoing with people but this hasn't always been the case. This could be due to developing your extroverted functions as you've gotten older. You seem to be more introverted.

i.e When you mention preferring a few close relationships rather then a broad full circle of friends. As well as wanting more space and being more productive when alone and calling in sick just to avoid social interaction. This strongly points to Introversion rather than Extroversion. You just very may well border between the I/E dichotomy or have learned to be extroverted.

All and all with the little information you provided it seems to me that your an Introvert. Hope I helped.
 

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I find the easiest way to tell apart the two is tertiary Se.

In ENTJs you see this manifesting as strong motivation to achieve, advance, make money, obtain power, be in competition with others. Materialistic desires--nice house, nice clothes, nice car. More spontaneous adventurism. More comfortable being the center of attention. More comfortable leading others.

Some INTJ enneagram 8's claim to relate to these things ^. I personally think they are ENTJs who are refusing to label themselves as such.

lol.

But you do you.


From my perspective, I avoid direct competition. It makes me very uncomfortable. I "have a desire" to be rich, but not a realistic one. I have no motivation to make it happen as you would see in an ENTJ. Everyone probably "has a desire" to be rich. But this is hugely different from the ENTJ attitude of being drawn to success and achievement.

Tertiary Fi can be hit-or-miss. In older INTJs, maybe it is more apparent that they are INTJs instead of ENTJs due to the connection to their Fi. They will have more personal values that they advocate.*

But, either I'm too young, or the personal values thing just isn't all that special to me. If you compared me to an Fi dom, you'd probably think my Fi was inferior. But compare me to a Te dom, and you know my Te is auxiliary.

Social extroversion definitely isn't the same as cognitive extraversion, but I think in almost all cases, social extraverts are cognitive extraverts. Due to the nature of the dominant extraverted function craving extraverted stimulation.

It doesn't have to come from other people. But that's perhaps the easiest way.


*and this actually is why I think Bill Gates is an INTJ and not an ENTJ as celebritytypes.com would lead you to believe. All his philanthropic work via the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation doesn't strike me as something an Fi inferior would be interested in.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
@skydreamer Do you expend energy in interacting with people or do you get energized by it?

In the first case, you're likely INTJ.
This is the part that really confuses me. I feel like I need a certain amount of people interaction in order to feel normal. I was living by myself last year and I got really sick at one point and I didn't see any human being for 6 weeks. At the end of that 6 weeks I was desperate for social interaction and just about driven crazy with the intensity my Ni had reached by that point.

On the other hand every time I spend significant amount with people, yes I feel a need to go away and just think. I enjoy interaction with people a lot as long as it consists of deep conversations and I don't have to do the small talk thing. Deep conversations energise me but small talk is one of the most draining activities I can think of. Hence I am no longer in the healthcare field and I am in the process of changing my role in community work to involve fewer people interactions and more structural organisation. My all time favourite job was when I was working in a basement as an archivist for a museum.
 

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Social INTJs definitely do exist, and we can learn to improve our weaknesses like anyone else.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I find the easiest way to tell apart the two is tertiary Se.

In ENTJs you see this manifesting as strong motivation to achieve, advance, make money, obtain power, be in competition with others. Materialistic desires--nice house, nice clothes, nice car. More spontaneous adventurism. More comfortable being the center of attention. More comfortable leading others.

Some INTJ enneagram 8's claim to relate to these things ^. I personally think they are ENTJs who are refusing to label themselves as such.

lol.

But you do you.


From my perspective, I avoid direct competition. It makes me very uncomfortable. I "have a desire" to be rich, but not a realistic one. I have no motivation to make it happen as you would see in an ENTJ. Everyone probably "has a desire" to be rich. But this is hugely different from the ENTJ attitude of being drawn to success and achievement.

Tertiary Fi can be hit-or-miss. In older INTJs, maybe it is more apparent that they are INTJs instead of ENTJs due to the connection to their Fi. They will have more personal values that they advocate.*

But, either I'm too young, or the personal values thing just isn't all that special to me. If you compared me to an Fi dom, you'd probably think my Fi was inferior. But compare me to a Te dom, and you know my Te is auxiliary.

Social extroversion definitely isn't the same as cognitive extraversion, but I think in almost all cases, social extraverts are cognitive extraverts. Due to the nature of the dominant extraverted function craving extraverted stimulation.

It doesn't have to come from other people. But that's perhaps the easiest way.


*and this actually is why I think Bill Gates is an INTJ and not an ENTJ as celebritytypes.com would lead you to believe. All his philanthropic work via the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation doesn't strike me as something an Fi inferior would be interested in.
Hmm this is interesting. I'm not sure what you mean by competition. If you mean competition with others, that has never been on my radar except academically. In college I strove to keep top tier in my class at all costs. It was really important to me. I felt like I had failed if my grades slipped below an A- . On the other hand, I did shy away from competing with my classmates in more direct ways. There were several scholarships that required "a community spirit" which I decided to not apply for. Even though my grades were exceptional the idea of participating in College life and clubs etc was not attractive in the least. I like to dress well but everything I own is functional. I have three pairs of shoes for example and they are all black because that means I can use them for many different occasions and they always go with everything. When I travel overseas I only take carry-on because I don't see the need to take my entire life with me. I'm a bit spartan. My sole material wealth consists of several hundred books. I wouldn't mind being wealthy (and I have thought about pursuing it seriously) but my ideals and life goals will probably mean that will never happen. I think what I do with my life is more important than what I get out of it.

Fi has been the bane of my existence! It's an awful experience. Truly unforgettable. I actually thought I was an INFJ for a really long time simply because Fi is something I have been aware of as long as I can remember. When I was a kid I used to spend hours writing poetry, drawing and painting and forcing my younger sister to act in plays I had written. I know that I am not an INFJ though because I finally realised that I don't have that wonderful Fe vibe and ability to smooth things over and make people happy. I've offended lots of people very innocently. I've learned to have people skills through trial and error, reading books on body language and micro-expressions and delving into EQ. I had a very difficult childhood which I think complicates things. Although I am aware of an intense inner sensation that is surely emotion and is making me feel like someone is cutting me up with a knife.... I can't actually identify my emotions very easily. It can take up to 6 months to figure out how I feel about a person or a situation. I was once having a conversation with an INFP friend and it took me about 15 minutes to decided whether or not I was excited about travelling overseas the next day. So I have this love-hate relationship with Fi that is something I hate very much. But I guess that is life....

Another point that might be interesting. When I was in college I never socialised. I mean not at all. I lived off campus, ate my lunch in my car while reading a book and spent every free moment in the library studying. I knew I was "missing out" on forming friendships for life blah blah blah but I didn't care. Most college students seemed immature to me and I didn't feel like I had anything in common with them. Mind you, this could be an IQ thing. I graduated from College when I was 19....
 

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This is the part that really confuses me. I feel like I need a certain amount of people interaction in order to feel normal. I was living by myself last year and I got really sick at one point and I didn't see any human being for 6 weeks. At the end of that 6 weeks I was desperate for social interaction and just about driven crazy with the intensity my Ni had reached by that point.
Humans are social animals afterall...

On the other hand every time I spend significant amount with people, yes I feel a need to go away and just think. I enjoy interaction with people a lot as long as it consists of deep conversations and I don't have to do the small talk thing. Deep conversations energise me but small talk is one of the most draining activities I can think of. Hence I am no longer in the healthcare field and I am in the process of changing my role in community work to involve fewer people interactions and more structural organisation.
Not trying to assert myself like a psychology or MBTI expert here, but I don't think that using a dominant extraverted function automatically makes you a social extroverse, and viceversa (that is why I said likely in my previous post).

Plus, preferences are not stable, they fluctuate overtime.
What you said in your last post, I can relate to some degree (my childhood and most adolescence were difficult, high IQ --> most contemporaries felt immature...). I was more social introverted during my adolescence.
Now I am more extroverted but I go through some periods where I retreat a little.

My all time favourite job was when I was working in a basement as an archivist for a museum.
I can't relate to this instead. Sometime I've desired a job with little social interactions, but over time (preferences more stable --> could be a personal trait) I've always preffered a job where I can be at the battlefront, commanding people to perform tasks with excellence and efficiency.

I know, that's weird. :happy:

Maybe could be of help observing the way you operate. First time I took the test, I didn't know what ENTJ means, but I recognized myself in the description of how ENTJs operate.
For example, I remember using Te since I was a child; and I remember I started using Ni during my first year at high school.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Hmmm.. @TheDave. I think you're right about function preferences being flexible and not necessarily indicating extroversion/introversion.

I honestly think that I developed Ni first. As a toddler my Mom tells me I wondered around singing to myself and composing "songs." One of my memories when I was four is very distinct and I think demonstrates Ni. I was a flower-girl for a wedding and I had a long, red rose to carry. After the wedding had finished I was stepped outside in the dark and noticed that my rose had wilted. I remember very clearly that my next thought was something like this: "Life is like a rose. It is beautiful while it lasts.." However, my Mom also insists that I was very bubbly, talkative and extroverted.

I don't really remember noticing when Te kicked in though. I was very, very bossy to my siblings and friends. I told everyone what to do and how and they all just fell into line and did what I told them to. I probably would have made a great dictator... lol.

I have worked in a lot of extroverted roles but I've learned by default that caring roles are not great for me. I feel for people in a sort of principled way. But I hate having to constantly prep myself up to say kind things, make small talk and just generally make people comfortable. I am great in extroverted roles where people's feelings don't matter so much. Like organising teams to follow through on an event, event management, etc. I'm really bad at pen-pushing type jobs and roles where I have little or no authority. I'm really great at getting people to produce results.

Maybe I'm on the line of extroversion/introversion ... :)

As an ENTJ do you feel that your inner world is very rich? Does it make you feel like you lose connection with the physical world around you? Do you have a deep sentimental streak that you would be ashamed to admit to anyone?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Hmm. I asked my Mom some questions and she said this:

At home as a kid I was primarily dreamy, in my head, reading books, on another planet kind of thing.

When I was around other people I was very fact driven, dictator-like and extroverted.

This continues to be how I act to this day. Can I say I prefer one mode over the other? I don't know.... maybe I really am the mythical Ambivert
 

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I would recommend watching these (and really every video Pierce has):

(I put them in order of relevance, most important on top)

 






I think you will find that you are not an ENTJ. At least not an ENTJ 8 or 7.

Anyway, do you know your Enneagram? I think that would help tons if your MBTI is confusing you. Because sometimes your Enneagram makes you manifest very different from other people of the same type.

For example, an INTJ type 8 is not going to look like an INTJ but rather like an ENTJ.

An ENTP type 5 is not going to look like an ENTP but rather like an INTP.
 
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Hmm interesting @emberfly.

Actually I think you underestimate the research I have done on Myers-Briggs, Jungian theories and extensions of my own theories... I've already seen all these videos but thanks for that! It is useful to watch them back to back.

Here's the point. At different times I've thought I was an INFJ, INFP, ENTP, INTP, INTJ, and ENTJ. Initially I had trouble understanding the difference between Fi and Fe, Ni and Ne, and Ti and Te. Mostly because if you read forums like PersonalityCafe and others, not everyone knows what they're talking about. So there is a lot of disinformation going around. In the end I went to the source (Jung) and nutted it out for myself which has been very helpful.

I know I use Ni over Ne because my conceptualisations are not based on objects around me. Intuition for me is extremely abstract and detached from the world around me. It is kind of like seeing a galaxy of stars from a distance and observing the correlations between all of them and drawing conclusions, noticing patterns and predicting trends. My dad and my sister are INFPs and I have a great friend who is an ENFP. While I am kind of fascinated by watching Ne at work it is definitely not something I'm all that great with. Put it this way, I can spend all night theorising on an abstract topic while my ENFP friend is painting picture frames with nail-polish. Yeah. Different world to the one I inhabit. I particularly appreciate my INFJ and INTJ friends (I have a few of each) for the very fact that the interaction with Ni is really enjoyable for me.

While Fi is very intense for me when I experience it --- I don't experience it all that often. For the most part when I analyse myself I find there really isn't much there emotionally. Pretty much a neutral feeling most of the time. The complicating factor in this is that I've come out of an abusive relationship and I was never accepted for my personality as a child. I was disciplined very harshly for being "critical" and "resistant" to authority and I was expected to behave emotionally like other people in my family (all strong feelers). I kind of wonder if I'm trying to be an extrovert because of false guilt.

Te is pretty obvious in me -- At least my INTJ friends don't doubt that I use it and I can certainly dish it back to them with equal or greater force than they gave it to me. I think it is especially obvious when I compare it to my (2) INFJ friends who have this really annoying habit of creating a false sense of logic with their Ti. I find Ti somewhat irrational and fixated...

Se tends to be what I call my vacuum. In other words, when I'm operating in an extroverted sense I'm constantly scanning the world around me and making observations that I collect for later use. Body language, words, expressions, clothing, colours. It is non-judgmental observation and has definitely been a learned skill that happened only within the last few years.

Pretty much I think I have a solid understanding of the functions... I don't doubt that I'm using Ni, Te, Fi, Se. In some order. Ni has to be dominant or close to because it is the mode in which I find myself living a large portion of the time. Fi has probably been exaggerated because of my life experiences and family issues. In fact I only went into healthcare temporarily after I came out of the abusive relationship because it seemed to help me to be able to extend compassion to other hurting people...

I have issues with enneagram -- I've taken tests about 12 or so times and every time I've gotten a different result. I'm not sure I place much value on it. I've also looked into Socionics and while I actually think Socionics is valid, none of the personalities describe me.
 

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Hi,

I've hovered around as a silent observer for a long time (at least 5 years..). Anyway. I'm really confused about what personality type to consider myself. I know for certain that I use Ni, Te, Se and Fi. But I'm confused about which order I use them in. Essentially this is the difference between whether or not I am an extrovert or an introvert but I have lots of good reason to believe I am one or the other.

Reasons I might be an extrovert:

  • I am very confident and outgoing around people (although this hasn't always been the case).
  • I have been called a social butterfly because I have many, many friends of varying "levels" and I get around socially
  • I can be considered gregarious when I want to be
  • I can be incredibly good at reading people (although I can be a bit hopeless re: emotional content) and I seem to be better at it than some INTJ friends I know.

Reasons I might be an introvert:

  • Although I have many friends I am only emotionally vulnerable to 2 of them (very few people actually know the real me)
  • I have an incredibly rich inner world that can make me lose contact with the tangible world around me on a regular basis (read: I can be a bit of an air-head).
  • I am more productive when I'm alone than when I'm with people
  • I enjoy having space to myself and have deliberately cancelled plans by pretending to be sick just so I could be alone
  • Although I am great with people skills and have worked consistently in people-focused fields (healthcare and community work) I have had to admit to myself that a secret part of me doesn't like people -- that makes me feel guilty but it's true.

I seem to use Ni and Te almost equally which makes it more confusing. I'm wondering if any of you relate to my points and if you could provide some feedback? Would appreciate it!
You definitely sound like more of an INTJ to me...
I'm on sorta a fine line between ENTJ and INTJ, however I know I am an extravert because I get strength and am highly susceptible to the social energies around me. I gain a lot of rejuvenation from being around people, even if I'm not interacting with them. If I am "wanting" to be alone, I know its not actually going to help me "rejuvenate" its more or less because I know if I am not away from said annoying person I'm going to say something.
There is also the outgoing introverts. Which you sound more like... They are outgoing and have plenty of acquaintances/friends/ppl they're friendly with, however, they do still retreat. I'd think this is developed because they are surrounded in their immediate family or close friends by extroverts, so they learn to be outgoing etc, but they still require time alone to re-gather and collect themselves.
 

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This is the part that really confuses me. I feel like I need a certain amount of people interaction in order to feel normal. I was living by myself last year and I got really sick at one point and I didn't see any human being for 6 weeks. At the end of that 6 weeks I was desperate for social interaction and just about driven crazy with the intensity my Ni had reached by that point.

On the other hand every time I spend significant amount with people, yes I feel a need to go away and just think. I enjoy interaction with people a lot as long as it consists of deep conversations and I don't have to do the small talk thing. Deep conversations energise me but small talk is one of the most draining activities I can think of. Hence I am no longer in the healthcare field and I am in the process of changing my role in community work to involve fewer people interactions and more structural organisation. My all time favourite job was when I was working in a basement as an archivist for a museum.
Personally, I like small talk sometimes- not meaningless small talk about the weather, that's just painful, but getting to know people and asking about their lives. Anyone gets tired without human contact after awhile, even my INTJ best friend and my INFP sister (who tests as 90% introverted). Everyone gets lonely- that's called group-oriented natural selection.

Tbh most ENTJs are ruthlessly decisive, so you're probably an INTJ if you've a. been hovering and b. are asking
 
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Actually, it took me sometime to reflect on those questions.

As an ENTJ do you feel that your inner world is very rich?
As a child and teenager I had a richer inner world; I was more sensitive, I remember writing some poems, or being able to clearly distinguish emotions. Now they're all... unclear and fuzzy. Sometimes it feels like I am struggling to "come back home" (maybe a desire for more balance).

I started to manifest very early desire for independence and to seek knowledge; I read the whole Bible when I was 10, just to know why I had to go to church every Sunday morning. I was always bombarding my parents with questions about anything and questioning their answers.

However, my younger me was also more prone to rage and rebut of authority: I remember commanding some escapes from school, I beat up or stopped bullies when spotting them bullying guys, I had some REALLY harsh discussions with my father.... and so on.

Does it make you feel like you lose connection with the physical world around you?
That's very rare. I think it is very important being down to earth, and never lose that connection. Maybe at my core I do this for "survival", not allowing environment to take over me.

Do you have a deep sentimental streak that you would be ashamed to admit to anyone?
Oh yes. It's really rare I let someone know my emotions. Why? I don't really know. I never liked it; afterall, I'm not even sure what emotions I am feeling.
For example, I can be very romantic and chivalrous with a girl, but I don't want anyone, even my friends, to find out.

Other times, I am affected by some strong emotions, but I learnt to control myself better and not displaying them over time.

But I wouldn't identify those emotions like a streak, they are more random and inconsistent.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
You definitely sound like more of an INTJ to me...
I'm on sorta a fine line between ENTJ and INTJ, however I know I am an extravert because I get strength and am highly susceptible to the social energies around me. I gain a lot of rejuvenation from being around people, even if I'm not interacting with them. If I am "wanting" to be alone, I know its not actually going to help me "rejuvenate" its more or less because I know if I am not away from said annoying person I'm going to say something.
There is also the outgoing introverts. Which you sound more like... They are outgoing and have plenty of acquaintances/friends/ppl they're friendly with, however, they do still retreat. I'd think this is developed because they are surrounded in their immediate family or close friends by extroverts, so they learn to be outgoing etc, but they still require time alone to re-gather and collect themselves.
It's interesting you say that. My mom is one of the most extroverted extroverts that ever existed. ESFJ...sigh.

My close INTJ friend doesn't think I'm an INTJ because I care about preserving connections with people. While I don't enjoy superficial interactions I bother to go through the motions anyway. I kind of view friendships as a network of safety nets and a resource that can be incredibly useful. I have gotten every single job except 2 because of recommendations by my friends. Because of family issues I've also learned that if family don't have your back you need to have people in your life who do.

She also thinks it's strange that I have a tendency to express my Fi. It's not what I did in the past. Previously I just became mute and withdrawn when dealing with my emotions. But I've also learned that if people don't know what you're going through they can't help you. Even though my personality doesn't want help I've had to admit to myself that sometimes it is healthy to come off my high horse and let people know what's going on. My ENFP friend has been immensely helpful in understanding my emotions. I love that she never views emotions as scary or something to afraid of. And she has this incredible emotional vocabulary. I have about 6 words to describe my entirety of emotion; she probably has over 30.
 
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