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i'll just start this by saying that english isn't my first language, so i'll probably make some grammar mistakes or whatever.

i thought this would be a small text but turns out its fucking huge, so, if you have the patience to read it (entps i know you dont), i thank you SO much. i need help finding my type so i can have a sense of identity again.

so, i was always pretty confident that i was an entp (or intp maybe), actually, not confident, cause i ALWAYS question my type, i'm 100% the xNxP stereotype but im always like "hmmmmm what if im a mistyped, idk, isfj", but entp was the type that always made most sense to me.
when i first learned about mtbi, i took the 16p test and scored infp, i identified with a lot of things in the type's description, but other parts didnt made sense to me, so i just thought it was bullshit and it was something that everyone would identify with in some part.
some years later, i remembered this test and did it again, intp was my result. again, i identified with some parts, but didnt with others. but i didnt give up this time i started to "study" mbti. i read somewhere that intps are likely to identify with being super introvert, but entps on the other hand, identify with being an ambivert, and instantly i was like YEAH IM AN ENTP, then i read about cognitive functions and i felt that i have strong Fe, but it doesnt make much sense, cause its supposed to be developed late in life, and i just turned 18

why do i think i have Fe?
i was always worried about others opinions of me, since i was a child, a result of bullying maybe.
my parents told me i was kinda manipulative too, but i feel that it was pretty obvious manipulation, so i wasnt like cold genius manipulative
but that changed anyway, i dont feel that i am now, only in the sense that i try to impress people by trying to figure out what they like and being like that, changing my personality.
im a big people pleaser, i remember being nice to people that are a BIG PIECE OF SHIT cause i wanted them to like me? and i also felt bad about treating them bad, i have this really fucked up memory that makes me forget the reasons that that one person is garbage at the moment im with them and im like hmmmm maybe theyre not that bad after all. but when im alone or talking about them with someone, i use to remember why they suck and speak badly of them.
i also value social harmony, but that is probably connected to this fear that people wont like me, cause when im with my family i LOVE to argue with them, and kinda like this chaotic place, i even find it funny, sometimes people are all emotional screaming their opinion and im like theyre so dumb tries to hide smile im not afraid that they will judge me, and if they do, couldnt care less
i used to argue with authority at my school, but not in a confrontational, rude, you suck, way, i just wanted to know WHY they were doing that they were doing, asking me to do things that didnt make sense, i ALWAYS questioned everthying, my parents always said STOP ASKING WHY TO EVERYTHING. i had this struggle to respect and follow those dumb rules. i was even diagnosed with ODD.
got sent to the principal's office a lot of times. some teachers liked me tho, they knew i wasnt trying to be rude to them and all of them always thought i was really intelligent. got A's without really studying and skipping 70% of classes.
i loved to argue just to know why and try to understand the person's point of view, with my class, i also loved contradicting people, like, if people where arguing something i would argue the opposite, but they started to hate me and i eventually stopped doing that, but i feel some pleasure in being against others.

now back to my family.
when they're REALLY dumb and offend me or are just homophobic, (im a lesbian) racist(im white tho), sexist or anything that hurts me i get really angry, mad and often start to cry, thats also another thing that make me question my entpness, when someone hurts my ego or are just mean and offend >me< i get REALLY emotional, scream when angry, i used to even destroy objects or punch my pillow
i hate that tho, wish i could be cold and detached but i just cant control my feelings, but this is only with people im comfortable with, with my family. others usually dont make angry that easily, and rarely when they do, i just become quiet and run somewhere else to cry or anything.
with people that i like i wish that i could just go somewhere else and wait for the feeling to go away, but i keep telling them what they made me feel, so they can feel bad and change. i give a fucking lecture explaining why they hurted me, sometimes they dont give a flying fuck and respond to my long ass text with like 2 words, that hurts me even more. PLEASE CARE ABOUT ME AND MY FEELINGS????
my feelings are pretty strong when they come, but they also go fast, they're kinda shallow. i'll be REALLY fucking mad at you wanting to kill you and call you the worst thing thinking i'll never talk to you again, but when im feeling this i know deep down that i will forgive you in like 25 minutes and i'll act like NOTHING happened. could be even laughing and stuff
same with sadness, romantic feelings, when i crush someone i get really obsessed with that one person then when i get what i want i just become bored and stop having a crush. that could be ne(?)

about fi, i feel like i have it too, like, i really like being different from the rest, above them (who doesnt) but at the same time i want to fit in.
im also pretty confident about my opinions and dont change them (but only with things like racism, homophobia, sexism and that kind of stuff) i HATE entps who are like hurrrrr my sense of humor is darkkkk when ur just a piece of garbage
with other things that dont really matter, i usually change my opinion about them if u can make a decent argument and i can see it from a different perspective,
but that is the only "moral code" that i have, i usually dont care about things that people think are immoral like breaking rules that dont make sense, stealing things from big corporations, killing the fucking president. not a big deal.
i hate people that justify things with their feelings, i feel like feelings are important in a decision, like, how it will affect others, but logic is also REALLY important. stop justifying yourself saying "oh because i felt like it" give me explanations that make fucking sense.

i want to talk about Ti and Te but i'll first talk about Ne and how i dont think im that quick witted and funny, im not that quick witted and funny. i swore that i would try to forget this girl but i cant so im gonna talk about her here (please ** like me back so i can forget you :(()

i always thought i was just boring and not funny, but with this girl, >when im in the mood, i need to be in the mood, kinda hypomanic, usually when people compliment me and i feel like god< oh, a thing about me, i have this really fucked up self steem that i either feel like i am just fucking PERFECT or just pure trash, anyway, she laughs SO easily, so im really confident in making stupid fucking jokes with her, so im really "funny" around her, i also like to make fun of her and pick on her, annoy her. it's cute. i have a hard time demonstrating my feelings and saying cute things, she's all warm and corny and i'm like 馃憤, i love being the entp stereotype with her, kinda cold and stuff. but this cold part its not really with her, i hate being too affectionate with people in general, im afraid of overwhelming them, i cant even say I LOVE YOU cause thats ewwwwww, even tho sometimes i want to. so. much. but only with people i have romantic feelings, and i love when they are like that with me, with others i usually dont feel the need to.
this funny part of me isnt present when im with people im not 100% comfortable with and need to impress, or with people more extroverted than me, fucking hate that. im always too fucking introspective, in my own head trying to not make a fool out of myself that i just dont have anything to say and just turn shy and quiet. in arguments with people that intimidate me i also suck and dont have anything quick witted to say.
so yeah, i dont consider myself a funny person, quick witted person, maybe because of my social anxiety introspection self awareness and the fact that i give too much fucks? maybe. but yeah.

now Ti x Te, i have a hard time understanding the differences between them, so i'll just say the little that i know.

why i could be Ti -> i absolutely LOVEEEEEEE conspiracy theories, like simulation theory and stuff. they dont have pratical use but i love discussing it, one of my favorite topics to talk about. but unlike ti doms, i dont like that nonsense stuff that they're always into, random facts like idk can frogs love?? i dont fucking care. when i read about those random facts its usually cause i wanna impress people and come off as smart.
i love science, physics, philosophy but thats an intuitive thing i guess.
but i dont go deep into these things, when i learn the basics i jump to other things.

Te-> idk im really bossy with people im comfortable with, i collect others opinions to form my own, if they like or dont something i'll be seeing in their point of view. maybe this is a lack of identity related to my disorders or smth
im also really lazy (and depressed) and probably have adhd so i hate reading, so, when i study and learn things, its mainly motivated to impress other people, or just feel good about myself.

i dont know if thats a te or ti thing but i struggle to explain my thoughts when talking, i dont work well underpressure.


so, reasons i may be an entp -> love to be sarcastic, like to make fun of people and test them, like to argue with people that are SMART, dont reaaaaally care about activism and social things, right or wrong stuff, i dont even really care about whats happening in the world, kinda numb to it, i just care when it offends me like homophobia and sexism like i said, im a vegetarian tho, but i keep asking myself WHY do i do that, animals will keep dying and the environment impact will keep happening anyway, i try to make logical sense like, uhh doesnt make sense being agains animal cruelty with, like, dogs but supporting it with other animals, but really, its just cause dont feel good about being a part of all of that disgusting industry.
im not into mushy stuff, and not really affectionate, i feel weird demonstrating those feelings. people usually call me cold, but deep down i feel like im not.
i cant explain my emotions and idk if i can recognize them.

reasons i may be an enfp -> im not really blunt, i hate rude people, i try not hurt other people feelings, except with my parents, and maybe friends, it depends, i'll try to be honest but will also make sure im not gonna make you sad. but it also depends, some days ago a guy send me his video playing guitar and it was REALLY bad but i was like yeeeeeah i loved ittttt. i try to avoid uncomfortable situations. just telling it was good was better. and other day my friends asked me about her boyfriend and i was pretty straightforward telling her that hes trash and they should break up that he doesnt really love her etc
also my feelings are INTENSE when im angry or sad, like the other day my friend made me wait all day to play with him, i stayed awake for more than 24hrs just to play with him that game that i REALLY wanted to play and he knew that, i was also sad af and needed a distraction and then he said to me that he was tired and would probably watch a tv show or smth, i know it sound stupid but i was wating all day, full anxiety, he promised me he would. then he just ignored me and turned off his phone. at least he could try to talk to me and distract me but he didnt fucking care. i started crying and sent him a lot of voice messages and stuff. hated it. but then, some time later it was like nothing happened. i am also pretty fucking insecure, even tho sometimes i have those I AM A FUCKING GOD moments thinking im great, usually after compliments from other people, and i never had much friends, just the weird introverted kids, which sucked, cause i had no one to go out with and meet more people. and entps are usually seen as confident with a lot of friends etc.

so..... emotional (even tho at the sime time im not) and caring entp in ne-fe loop or try-to-be-logical enfp? or maybe some other type..... idk.

  • oh, in enneagram tests i score high in 7 6 and 4, maybe that's relevant.
 

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lots of info :)

first a disclaimer, i'm not expert in functions so i can't add too much there, but i think you are trying to take it in a too simplistic way. It's not so easy (more below)

anyway, I'm entp and i also had this entp/enfp doubts at some point, not by the 'help people' as you said- enfps don't aim to help (that's Fe, so ENTP), is more by the 'seeking to experience' part (that is Fi, and very ENFP) and some innate leadership performance. But i got out of doubts when i meet real ENFPs, there is no way to compare. I meet specifically an ENFP that is poly, that aims and nearly succeds to live without money, that travels all the world basically by free (typically accompanying some friend or one of the poly relations), that lives in a kind of student community but manages to pay zero rent, etc... I mean i've toruble to just handle one single romantic relation, i'm having a good salary but if not things would go really bad for me, i'm always paying rents in places where i don't have time to live there, etc... if i was ENFP i'll would be the worse performing ENFP of ever... so no... and for what you wrote is similar in your case.

Another thing that clues to me that you are ENTP is these collisions with other ENTPs. We always do that. for ENFP is the reverse, for a ENFP an ENTP is a good opportunity to exploit (or to synergy if you wish), because we are good dealing with the improvisation that is not people's related, and they can handle very well they one that is people's related. We also are very bad manipulating, our empathy (Fe) always kick in at the end and we refrain to 'kill' (figurative speaking) so we get caught often, thing that doesn't occur in ENFP, because they don't have Fe at all. In them is about Fi... how they experience it, what happens around to the other people doesn't compute.

About the functions: one thing is how you'll naturally work to take decisions-if you had zero constrains and zero previous experience- and another is what you do in reality. We learn, so we adapt our way to take decisions in the manner that we think is going to work better. So, often, you cannot relay in typing yourself by looking to the "routine" decisions, because that's eventually adapted to work well in your context (family, friends, school, workplace, etc...). Instead try to look how you do new thinks with new people, because that's more close to your natural perferences. And in this sense, the interactions with your romantic parteners and with other important people in your life are typically VERY adapted, and very little 'yourself'. Even if you don't think that way (eg meanwhile you are in love)... when you evolve out of that relation and look backwards you see it how much forced that it was.

Finnaly, many girls have a huge problem getting accepted as ENTP, because society pushes girls to be emmotional and not cold, assuming that emmotional is weak and coldness is strength.And some societies are very machist so want weak girls. Our inferior Fe is an excellent achilles heel, it's actually our largest vulnerability, and that's what make us weak. So intuitively knowing it, some adapt and deploy some covenient emmotional display just as a smoke courtain, even going far enough to 'believe' our own script meanwhile acting. If you found yourself nearly crying in the phone and 2 seconds after hanging saying ok what's next..., bingo, you're ENTP. That's why 'feelings go away fast'...
 

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I think in this particular dilemma it's easier to just focus on what mainly drives you in your decision making/understanding.

Fi is very focused on authenticity. It cares mainly about being true to yourself and who you are. if this comes secondary to how others feel for you you probably have Fe and are an ENTP. Fe might come out as acting slightly fake/not yourself in front of people sometimes in order to make them happy or for group benefits. ENFPs don't do this - they expect that being themselves and being a heightened mood will improve others' mood and if it doesn't, it doesn't - they don't tend to alter their behaviour.

With Te/ Ti, think of it in terms of the difference between using world evidence in an objective sense (te) and reasoning through a subject or concept within one own鈥檚 understanding (Ti), even if it doesn鈥檛 match 鈥榦uter world鈥 data. If you are a high Ti user you should rationalise a lot. With Ti, you would try and understand metrics, analysis and data points by 鈥榤aking sense鈥 of something for yourself rather than using only relying on a collection of other people's discoveries or experts to understand stuff.
 

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  • The MBTI is a nonsensical take on Jung's work.
  • Jung's work is a severely flawed take on his own observations.
  • As a result the description of both oriented functions of judgment have been reversed.
  • In fact the dominant attitude dominates perception and judgment. It's "NE-FI" or "NE-TI" that don't make any sense.
  • What makes even less sense is displaying what is generally assumed to be "FE" as an ENTP since it is "FI".
  • Hence there is no such thing as a primary-tertiary loop or even shadow functions.
  • The MBTI I/E axis is 100% irrelevant to the attitude of consciousness and nothing about the MBTI measures P/J
  • You talk too much, holy shit.
 

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  • What makes even less sense is displaying what is generally assumed to be "FE" as an ENTP since it is "FI".
ENTPs have Fe as the third function. Fi is only their 7th so they are not an Fi user in that sense - If that's what you meant? That's how reads anyway.
 

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Read the sources, not some self proclaimed website or foundation.

Do your homeworks.

And hey, look at how those dimwits contradict themselves. The Myers & Briggs Foundation - Type Dynamics
OK, provide me with some good sources then so we can have a discussion about it. You didn't even know how many functions there were so I can't imagine you know loads about Jungian theory tbh.
 

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The way you handle your emotions and use them is not like an ENTP. I'm not sure about ENFP either since I don't see you describing much of an N preference especially not N dom. From what you're describing you seem more impulsive and reactive to immediate things.


@Dscross

the functions are 4: N, T, F, S, the E/I are attitudes of adaptation, a different trait
 

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Well, this is down to semantics now. There are a million sources that call them 8 functions.
I know, because they misunderstood the original content, in which what they call 8 functions were actually 8 types , based on the dominant attitude and dominant function which is what the ego is structured around and hence the most important, psychologically. It's not just semantics, it's a whole psychological theory.
 

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I know, because they misunderstood the original content, in which what they call 8 functions were actually 8 types , based on the dominant attitude and dominant function which is what the ego is structured around and hence the most important, psychologically. It's not just semantics, it's a whole psychological theory.
I don't think they misunderstand it, it's just an easier way of explaining it because they all operate differently. There are a few people on this site that seem to have a problem with simplistic explanations because they seem to look down on it or something. I, for one, think it's useful.

Also, by your logic, we wouldn't be able to use the shadow functions and function stack theory, which has built upon since Jung, which I personally think is a good theory. We couldn't say things like '1st function, 2nd function, 3rd function etc' so you wouldn't be able to explain it properly.
 

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I don't think they misunderstand it, it's just an easier way of explaining it because they all operate differently. There are a few people on this site that seem to have a problem with simplistic explanations because they seem to look down on it or something. I, for one, think it's useful.

Also, by your logic, we wouldn't be able to use the shadow functions and function stack theory, which has built upon since Jung, which I personally think is a good theory. We couldn't say things like '1st function, 2nd function, 3rd function etc' so you wouldn't be able to explain it properly.
it's not an easier way if it has so many mistakes

I don't see how my logic says that?
 

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it's not an easier way if it has so many mistakes

I don't see how my logic says that?
You are saying, by extension, you can't call Fe a function (for example) because it's actually 'F' that's the function, and therefore, the way of describing functions stacks and shadow functions no longer works using these word descriptions.

You'd have to come up with new word descriptors and it would get confusing.
 

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You are saying, by extension, you can't call, for example, Fe a function because it's actually 'F' that's the function, and therefore, the way of describing functions stacks and shadow functions no longer works using these word descriptions.

You'd have to come up with new names and it would get confusing.
There's no need for new names, only that the system is explained properly and people understand the role of the attitude of adaptation. Function stacks are wrong to begin with, they only half-assedly work because of retrofitting what the original definitions meant, which has caused a lot of inconsistency in descriptions based on the supposed positioning and whatnot.
 

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There's no need for new names, only that the system is explained properly and people understand the role of the attitude of adaptation. Function stacks are wrong to begin with, they only half-assedly work because of retrofitting what the original definitions meant, which has caused a lot of inconsistency in descriptions based on the supposed positioning and whatnot.
So, just to be clear, are you literally going off Jung's original definitions and not taking anything anyone has done since into account to extend the theory?

As I've tried to explain, by not calling them 8 functions it makes the whole function stack and shadow functions thing needlessly confusing to talk about and I also don't think it's a bad way to explain it anyway tbh.
 

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So, just to be clear, are you literally going off Jung's original definitions and not taking anything anyone has done since into account to extend the theory?

As I've tried to explain, by not calling them 8 functions it makes the whole function stack and shadow functions thing needlessly confusing to talk about and I also don't think it's a bad way to explain it anyway tbh.
Not exactly, because Jung's theory has issues itself, but he made some really important observations that the MBTI didn't apply to their system. The problem is that the extensions done are based on the initial misunderstandings and taking his words out of context done by M-B, his own writings were never put to test or made into a system. Also, as a result of this mess, there's a huge gap between MBTI theory and application, since the test and the studies done on it do not use the "8 functions", but only the dichotomies, yet all knowledge acquired from those results are being applied to 8function models when they were never tested to begin with. In fact, there are a few studies done on the function stacks systems, that showed they're mostly a mess, for example you can read here: https://www.capt.org/research/article/JPT_Vol69_0109.pdf
 
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