Am I an INFJ or an INTP?
I've been struggling with various types and after reading the INFJ description, on Personality Junkie decided that I related to that one the most. The only other one to even come close to that was INTP. Those were also the only two, that I related to the being "in the grip" inferior functions, with INFJ having the decided edge.
I took the PerC Cognitive functions test, and my 3 highest scores were INTP, INFJ and ENTP. I've pretty much written off that one, 'though; so I know for sure, it is between those two.
The reason I am posting this here, and not in either the Cognitive Functions or the Myers-Briggs forums; is that when I tried to explain my experience of Ni; non N doms types had no idea what I was talking about; so I would rather just get INFJ's opinions only.
I took the PerC Cognitive functions test, and my 3 highest scores were INTP, INFJ and ENTP. I've pretty much written off that one, 'though; so I know for sure, it is between those two.
The reason I am posting this here, and not in either the Cognitive Functions or the Myers-Briggs forums; is that when I tried to explain my experience of Ni; non N doms types had no idea what I was talking about; so I would rather just get INFJ's opinions only.
61 - 79 of 79 Posts
Yeah, that's very interesting. I may not think about humanity on a daily basis, but no question, I would love to make the world a better place. I don't know how much you know about my spiritual practice, Nichiren Buddhism, but the idea is based on this concept referred to as "human revolution"; which basically mean that by creating the person we want to be; we can change the world, or something like it.
So, while I do want to do my part to serve humanity: ie. the WWF link in my sigline; I want to do it creating some novel theory the revolutionizes the world - preferably in an ingenious work of art of literature. 'K, off to take my humble pills now. :tongue:
So, while I do want to do my part to serve humanity: ie. the WWF link in my sigline; I want to do it creating some novel theory the revolutionizes the world - preferably in an ingenious work of art of literature. 'K, off to take my humble pills now. :tongue:
@TreasureTower
maybe you're a mysterious creature from the deep blue ocean??
Anyways, I figured out my type in the similar situation by understanding what my life goal is (I told you this already), and that is was humanity-related. The INTP I know really well would much rather have a fulfilling job and live comfortably. I don't mean to generalize here, but in my experience these life goals are very very different.
Yeah, that's the main basis for my confusion. I don't fit INFP - too T; I don't fit INTJ - not enough F; so, I am stuck between INTP and INFJ because they are both INXX and both utilize Ti-Fe. I just think that I am too much of a thinker; to be your average feeler and conversely, too much of a feeler, to be your average thinker.
@TreasureTower
I think the biggest issue is people with marginal preferences on the dichotomies look very little like what you'd expect the doms/infs to look. Like, why would someone who is INFP with P strong and F-T preference slim, and N-preference HIGH, and high introversion look like a Fi-dom rather than Ni-dom? Likely not.
Assuming roughly balanced but clear preferences I could see a case for INFP with P measuring mostly outward orientation being observably more Ne-like (their observable outlook rather than their inner, possibly secretly held, identity of Fi, would possibly be perceptive, seemingly receptive to new perspectives outside, more to compensate for their lack of interest in objective judgment).
I think the biggest issue is people with marginal preferences on the dichotomies look very little like what you'd expect the doms/infs to look. Like, why would someone who is INFP with P strong and F-T preference slim, and N-preference HIGH, and high introversion look like a Fi-dom rather than Ni-dom? Likely not.
Assuming roughly balanced but clear preferences I could see a case for INFP with P measuring mostly outward orientation being observably more Ne-like (their observable outlook rather than their inner, possibly secretly held, identity of Fi, would possibly be perceptive, seemingly receptive to new perspectives outside, more to compensate for their lack of interest in objective judgment).
You're on on a very particular path in your comments to others and about discussions on this site lately, Sweetish. I've been noticing it in passing and now it's kind of in my face from this dialogue. From my vantage point, I can't imagine how it could feel good inside to be in the space that would yield what you've been bringing lately, but maybe for you it does feel good.
For your sake, I hope it is truly well for you to be doing what you've been doing on this site lately.
For your sake, I hope it is truly well for you to be doing what you've been doing on this site lately.
@TreasureTower: regarding the below; there are clear differences between these types so try to see if any of those rings a bell! Like, for instance you went on about how ENTP could solve the problem. Do you think if you had to say, where do you feel most at home -- intuition? feeling? thinking? If you are generally an intuitive, I'd say don't worry about the little nitpicks and go ahead and pick ENTP or INFJ. I don't think it holds true that a best-fit introverted intuitive cannot Ne, only that with clear extreme levels of introversion they will reject Ne. Ditto for best fit ENTP and Ni.
And let's dispense with the stereotype that Ne-doms always are just all over the place. Yeah they may have a lot of interests but at the end of the day they're just cognitive extroverts, more energized by objectivity than subjectivity. The additional claim that they are unfocused is kind of extraneous. Ni can be equally unfocused in the sense I think is actually intellectually sound. It's intuition! It's powerful, conceptual, but it just goes and goes and goes without any clear destination necessarily. You just won't see Ni-doms' nature as much in this light because they are introverts.
And let's dispense with the stereotype that Ne-doms always are just all over the place. Yeah they may have a lot of interests but at the end of the day they're just cognitive extroverts, more energized by objectivity than subjectivity. The additional claim that they are unfocused is kind of extraneous. Ni can be equally unfocused in the sense I think is actually intellectually sound. It's intuition! It's powerful, conceptual, but it just goes and goes and goes without any clear destination necessarily. You just won't see Ni-doms' nature as much in this light because they are introverts.
Why is life so complicated? I wish we could all just sit down for a lovely tea party and eat chocolate cake, while watching the sun disappear into the Mediterranean sea, together with our worries, fears and insecurities.
<3
<3
Are you suggesting that I may be an INFP? I looked at the descriptions on Personality Junkie and I related far more to INFJ and even INTP, than I did INFP. In fact, the site compares and contrasts INFPs with INFJs and that made it abundantly clear to me that INFJ fit me far better than INFP. I also get INTP a little more often than INFP but on a couple of really complex and thorough tests; I had a very clear preference of INFJ. I also completely relate to Ni. I much prefer to understand one thing ins depth, then many things in depth.
@TreasureTower: no, more like IN-X-P by dichotomies. Your cognitive function profile is a different story. Those descriptions seem clearly to allude to cognitive functions, like speaking of INFJs' premonitions, etc.
By cognitive functions --
I'd look into ISTP for good measure if you think you seem Se-Ni but don't think INFJ fits. Don't look at the descriptions though -- you don't need to ride motorcycles or be in love with nature to use Se well (I mean, uhm, do people forget introversion as the dominant perspective changes one's need for and outlook on Se, Ni as compared to if one of these were dominant...). It's just a data-gathering scheme.
Figure out if you're an intuitive though. Intuitives are their own funny breed. Don't worry about introversion/extroversion for now perhaps.
By cognitive functions --
I'd look into ISTP for good measure if you think you seem Se-Ni but don't think INFJ fits. Don't look at the descriptions though -- you don't need to ride motorcycles or be in love with nature to use Se well (I mean, uhm, do people forget introversion as the dominant perspective changes one's need for and outlook on Se, Ni as compared to if one of these were dominant...). It's just a data-gathering scheme.
Figure out if you're an intuitive though. Intuitives are their own funny breed. Don't worry about introversion/extroversion for now perhaps.
1. Thinkers can definitely be fun, charming, warm, and insightful. Feelers do not own those traits. I don't see those comments as an indication that you are an F type rather than a T. Anecdotally, I have an INTP boss/mentor who I find to be pretty fun, warm, and insightful. But he's clearly a T.
2. If you are in fact a female T type, it's possible that you still share some subset or cluster of traits with F types because of the gender influence on the F/T dimension, so, again, it might not be a clean distinction for you, and that's ok. Consider reading over this post about the messiness of F/T for some insight into F/T and gender.
It might help you if you treat the 4 letter MBTI preferences code as a separate system from the cognitive functions, mostly because they truly are separate systems. If you want to find your "functions", I'm afraid I will not be able to help you much, as I'm not really into the functions these days. If you want to find your MBTI preferences (including the possibility that you have preferences near the middle on one or more dimensions), then my post above applies.
So let me ask you this: Ignoring the functions entirely, do you think you're a P or a J? Why? What is your understanding of P vs. J and how you fit into it?
2. If you are in fact a female T type, it's possible that you still share some subset or cluster of traits with F types because of the gender influence on the F/T dimension, so, again, it might not be a clean distinction for you, and that's ok. Consider reading over this post about the messiness of F/T for some insight into F/T and gender.
But what about all of the descriptions of INTPs being emotionally detached and lacking in emotional expression? While I do tend to feel very awkward in new situations - being an IN; when I do feel comfortable with people; they have described me as "a lot of fun", "charming", "caring", "warm" and "insightful". Is this true for the average INTP?
Also, on many of my tests; I have scored as an F about 45% of the time. And while female F types, might be "the most "F of the Fs"; I remember reading somewhere that INFJs were "the least F of the NFs". . . so . . .
I strongly recommend against believing everything you read at Personality Junkie. A. J. Drenth is often wrong on the facts, and the articles that get posted on his website are pretty crummy, in my opinion.
It might help you if you treat the 4 letter MBTI preferences code as a separate system from the cognitive functions, mostly because they truly are separate systems. If you want to find your "functions", I'm afraid I will not be able to help you much, as I'm not really into the functions these days. If you want to find your MBTI preferences (including the possibility that you have preferences near the middle on one or more dimensions), then my post above applies.
So let me ask you this: Ignoring the functions entirely, do you think you're a P or a J? Why? What is your understanding of P vs. J and how you fit into it?
@Teybo: could you suggest what are good F v. T dichotomy descriptions like you did for J/P?
For now, I can give you the best (statistically) item summaries from the MBTI Form F. The way to look at these is that the more of these statements you agree with, the more likely you are an F (for the first list) or a P (for the second list). For the items that are in the form "something > something else", the question is: "Which word in each pair appeals to you more? Think about what the words mean, not about how they look or how they sound." So if you pick the item on the left (so, for example, compassion > foresight is the item and you pick compassion) then that's a "point" for F, so to speak. If this doesn't make sense, I can clarify. Just ask.
Code:
[B][U]CLEANEST F/T[/U][/B]
DF86 touching > convincing
DF103 compassion > foresight
DF111 gentle > firm
DF79 sympathize > analyze
DF26 value sentiment > logic
DF72 warm-hearted > firmminded
DF89 soft > hard
DF154 heart rule head > head rule heart
DF100 devoted > determined
DF4 more careful about feelings > rights
DF81 blessings > benefits
DF120 peacemaker > judge
DF84 uncritical > critical
DF158 worse to be unsympathetic > unreasonable
DF91 forgive > tolerate
DF133 worse to not have enough warmth
DF147 work under kind > fair
DF108 trustful > wary
[U][B]CLEANEST P/J[/B][/U]
DP132 find details as go along a job
DP55 prefer just going to planning trip
DP1 following schedule cramps me
DP27 prefer free to do what looks fun
DP60 making weekend list not appealing
DP13 prefer doing things at last minute
DP151 in planned sits unpleasant to be tied downHere is a sample of items from Figure 26 in Gifts Differing. The thing to focus on is that F/T seems to come down largely to a people-orientation. Feelers are people oriented, while Thinkers are not. This doesn't mean that if you're humanitarian, you're an F. If you are humanitarian but the way in which you want to help others is, for example, by solving engineering problems like designing new ways to give people access to clean water, you might be more T than F.
| Thinking Types | Feeling Types |
| Are usually impersonal, being more interested in things than in human relationships. | Are usually personal, being more interested in people than in things. |
| If forced to choose between truthfulness and tactfulness, will usually be truthful. | If forced to choose between tactfulness and truthfulness, will usually be tactful. |
| Are stronger in executive ability than in the social arts. | Are stronger in the social arts than in executive ability. |
| Naturally brief and businesslike, they often seem to lack friendliness and sociability without knowing or intending it. | Naturally friendly, whether sociable or not, they find it difficult to be brief and businesslike. |
| Contribute to the welfare of society by the intellectual criticism of its habits, customs, and beliefs, by the exposure of wrongs, solution of problems, and the support of science and research for the enlargement of human knowledge and understanding. | Contribute to the welfare of society by their loyal support of good works and those movements, generally regarded as good by the community, which they feel correctly about and so can serve effectively. |
My only problem with using the 4 letter system alone, @Teybo, is that is was simply created as a shorthand way of stating their dominant functions. Stating/typing ENTP is easier than Ne dom, Ti aux, for example.
So one of the biggest inaccuracies I discovered was in my own typing. I'd get INTP all the time because of the T vs F bias and the J vs P bias. I have a heavy Ti (common among E5's) and I'm typically "non-judger" because I'm not a very judgemental person, nor am I "tidy".
So I'd get INTP on the 4 letter typing. Only when I looked at my JCF results did I get anywhere near INFJ.
And if you look at @TreasureTower's results, that stack just says INTP. Plainly. Ti lead, Ne fairly close, Si right behind and Fe down below. That's classic INTP function stack. Now, unless there was an excess of bias of manipulation in the test (and lets be honest, we've all done once or twice), that to me is good amount of evidence towards INTP.
Twitch
So one of the biggest inaccuracies I discovered was in my own typing. I'd get INTP all the time because of the T vs F bias and the J vs P bias. I have a heavy Ti (common among E5's) and I'm typically "non-judger" because I'm not a very judgemental person, nor am I "tidy".
So I'd get INTP on the 4 letter typing. Only when I looked at my JCF results did I get anywhere near INFJ.
And if you look at @TreasureTower's results, that stack just says INTP. Plainly. Ti lead, Ne fairly close, Si right behind and Fe down below. That's classic INTP function stack. Now, unless there was an excess of bias of manipulation in the test (and lets be honest, we've all done once or twice), that to me is good amount of evidence towards INTP.
Twitch
@TwitchdelaBRAT - for food for thought, interestingly though, if one wanted to code the 4 letter dichotomies to really reflect the cognitive functions more closely, I think being a best-fit Ni-dom with Ti-Fe might in fact fit INTP. The P v. J being Pe v. Je is a bit sticky and not quite true in my experience -- it doesn't always hold true that I'd type a person with IJ orientation as a perceiving dominant (I could see them actually seeming judging dominant best-fit), and part of the reason for all this is type is best-fit, not pure, and there's too much rigidity around how one translates the four letters to the cognitive functions (so I pretty much do the cognitive functions version of things separately, i.e. Ni-dom with Fe-Ti over Te-Fi is basically what I call a cognitive INFJ type). Perceiving dominance with a lesser preference for rational functions could actually lead to someone answering things very P-like on those tests.
So I mean, it might actually be that you are an INTP in the dichotomies and an "INFJ" as a best-fit cognitive type (i.e. maybe you are Ni-dom with Ti-Fe basically equally distributed, with a skewing to T in the dichotomy questions).
Also, keys2cognition is sort of a ridiculous place to test for Fe. It doesn't have terrible questions, but their Fe questions are way too group-harmony/caretaking oriented, which I honestly think can be a feature of even an inferior Fe and how much one indulges those things can relate far too much to people-orientation than legitimate F cognitive focus.
So I mean, it might actually be that you are an INTP in the dichotomies and an "INFJ" as a best-fit cognitive type (i.e. maybe you are Ni-dom with Ti-Fe basically equally distributed, with a skewing to T in the dichotomy questions).
Also, keys2cognition is sort of a ridiculous place to test for Fe. It doesn't have terrible questions, but their Fe questions are way too group-harmony/caretaking oriented, which I honestly think can be a feature of even an inferior Fe and how much one indulges those things can relate far too much to people-orientation than legitimate F cognitive focus.
Well, you be right but the rest of your post describes me to a T. Half the time I get INTP and the other, INFP. I don't think this type of test is really all that useful. On the vast majority or tests; I have pretty much a dead even T/F split and a very close J/P with higher P but after reading this article, I relate much stronger to J. And if you remember, the test did say that I could either be an INTP, INFJ or an ENTP but; that one doesn't fit due to both inferior function and extroversion.
At any rate, when I chose my E type, I wasn't a 100% sure about it either. I am now because I decided to wear it for awhile and I realized that it fit. I have already tried on INFP and INTP and am not convinced that either fits; so I will now try INFJ and see how it feels over time. I've realized that that is the only way, I can possibly know for sure. If I had waited to choose my E type when I was 100% certain; I still would be clueless about that. This is my process and I can only explain after the fact - if even then. All I know, is that unlike putting down a mortgage, I can always change my mind. I might wind up sticking with it or I may go back to INTP, but if I do that now; I will always be unsure.
At any rate, when I chose my E type, I wasn't a 100% sure about it either. I am now because I decided to wear it for awhile and I realized that it fit. I have already tried on INFP and INTP and am not convinced that either fits; so I will now try INFJ and see how it feels over time. I've realized that that is the only way, I can possibly know for sure. If I had waited to choose my E type when I was 100% certain; I still would be clueless about that. This is my process and I can only explain after the fact - if even then. All I know, is that unlike putting down a mortgage, I can always change my mind. I might wind up sticking with it or I may go back to INTP, but if I do that now; I will always be unsure.
Yay! This is a wonderful and for me much-needed (for clarity) description of your process! I think I've been responding partly to how you move in the trying-on mode. Yeah, this brings what's been happening into very clear view for me. Thank you thank you thank you. I think this explains a lot I've been sensing but unable to understand.
As I'm understanding it now: You need to figure it out by doing/experience and attending to the experience-based information that emerges in that process. Grounding understanding in experience - very inductive. I get it. It's not my way of moving in terms of applying a conceptual model for this kind of understanding, because "trying something on" like that like that would either resonate wrong at the depths, pull or commit me to a depth that would be hard for me to get out of, or some other sticky shit. I am able to hold conceptual tools lightly, but I discard whatever pieces don't fit rather quickly as I hone in to what fits best, rather than trying something on like you describe.
I just checked with my my INFP and she said she would never do something like this either. Seems to come from her confidence in her sense of self (which I associate Fi-dom).
We both have the same basic reaction which is: HOW you're doing this may be the key to your type, in the end.
Anyway, you have given me a mini Ti-gasm with this information and I am grateful for it, thank you.
As I'm understanding it now: You need to figure it out by doing/experience and attending to the experience-based information that emerges in that process. Grounding understanding in experience - very inductive. I get it. It's not my way of moving in terms of applying a conceptual model for this kind of understanding, because "trying something on" like that like that would either resonate wrong at the depths, pull or commit me to a depth that would be hard for me to get out of, or some other sticky shit. I am able to hold conceptual tools lightly, but I discard whatever pieces don't fit rather quickly as I hone in to what fits best, rather than trying something on like you describe.
I just checked with my my INFP and she said she would never do something like this either. Seems to come from her confidence in her sense of self (which I associate Fi-dom).
We both have the same basic reaction which is: HOW you're doing this may be the key to your type, in the end.
Anyway, you have given me a mini Ti-gasm with this information and I am grateful for it, thank you.
You're welcome, you're welcome, you're welcome X 1,000! Well in this thread, @Flatlander, just basically told me to go with what I felt was right, and then it hit me - that's exactly what I did with my E typing. I had no way of knowing, for sure but it made the most sense at the time and I now I know it is right, in an experiential sense. I can analyze, research, ad nauseum, until I'm blue in the face, and I will never the less; just keep going round and round in circles. I can only really be sure that I know something, when I experience it; if that is not possible, than imagining something works really well too.
"HOW you're doing this may be the key to your type, in the end". Yes exacactly! I will know in time if it fits me or not. If I try to research and analyze things too much; I fear that my head will explode. A lot of people may not approve or understand this method but it works for me; really what else could possibly matter? I use this method in a lot of things in my life as well. For example, I didn't overnight determine that I was a Nichiren Buddhist. I also wore that label for awhile, before I made a permanent part of my wardrobe. I don't even have a clue as to which cognitive function I'm using. I just know it works.
:laughing:
"HOW you're doing this may be the key to your type, in the end". Yes exacactly! I will know in time if it fits me or not. If I try to research and analyze things too much; I fear that my head will explode. A lot of people may not approve or understand this method but it works for me; really what else could possibly matter? I use this method in a lot of things in my life as well. For example, I didn't overnight determine that I was a Nichiren Buddhist. I also wore that label for awhile, before I made a permanent part of my wardrobe. I don't even have a clue as to which cognitive function I'm using. I just know it works.
:laughing:
@TreasureTower
If you find a group of people that you feel comfortable around, then who cares what the label is. :happy:
If you find a group of people that you feel comfortable around, then who cares what the label is. :happy:
Thank you for giving words to my thoughts and confirming that I truly am an INFJ.
I had that dilemma, too, and what helped me was digging into my core self and finding that ONE, single most important, higher purpose of my life. From there on, I started to read about the functions again and saw that I used Ni without doubt, and loads of Ti, while the Fe was heavily suppressed. My life wish or purpose, however, clearly implies helping HUMAN BEINGS, being with HUMAN BEINGS and spreading the wisdom I get through Ni so that humanity can be a happier place to live in
My INTP friend is concerned about humanity as well, but more in a "why are they so freakin retarded?" kind of way, he wants them to be more rational, honest etc. He doesn't want to dedicate his life to "serve" humanity, though.
Hope that helped a little!
61 - 79 of 79 Posts
