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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Normally, I tend to be a little cold, reserved and nonchalant concerning other people’s affairs, unless I see an opportunity for a vivid and fertile gesture. I consider the process of communication as a basic method of self-realization and a chance to embrace the strong sense for the dramatic vision. I romanticize intense emotions, and hold on to unrealistic expectations and images produced by my imagination. Deep inside, I am enormously afraid of being average and set a high value on being different; I do a lot to fulfill the image of an individualistic person containing precise and appropriate characteristics.

As a matter of fact, the route of communication with other people is the difficult process, because I can’t talk about “anything” – I need the conversation to be deep, informative, dynamic and meaningful. I am very deliberate when it comes to words, to what I say and think and I tend to keep a lot of thoughts to myself, because a part of me expects to be misunderstood.

Constant fear of being ordinary transforms into overwhelming jealousy. For instance, I am capable of manipulating a friend to reconsider an aspect of the mind-set if it is similar to mine, because it can make me look less unusual. Consequently, I am prone to relentless self-questioning and second-guessing. For me, the actualized self is one of the main standards of success; if I am not completely certain of my identity, how do I know what I am passionate about? As a result, I don’t know what I am good at and become unable to work on maintaining success and security and get frustrated. In fact, success, for me, may be partially defined as being able to assert myself; the more I possess, the more successful I can count myself – I naively imagine that I can be someone important and truly special. Therefore, I feel that I have to prove the validity of my selfhood by being successful.

Habitually, friendship becomes a competition. I feel awfully aggressive embracing the idea of being a better friend in a group: dependable, mature, selfless, ethical, practical, thoughtful, individualistic. I constantly control myself, because being impressionable and dramatic is unhealthy and unproductive, but the temper that boils inside me makes me incapable of thinking of a tolerable reaction.

:unsure: I need some insight, am I an unhealthy 4w3? Otherwise, where could all of the mentioned above come from?
 

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It could be a part of your tritype. As to whether it is core, that's a larger story (partly because I will not commit even to it being in your tritype, you'll have to do the searching to affirm or reject that). I'm one of those who thinks all 3 types can have a significant influence.

It's a good idea to figure out not just what is the "greatest" influence among the 3, but also consider the standpoint of which of the 3 you simply are unable to live without, i.e. which can truly stand alone, and this also relates to how the other drives (i.e. in the non-core centers) may have been to some level an offshoot of trying to deal with the core one. For instance, a core 9 may have developed a 5-like fixations when dealing with their inner 9 struggles.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
It could be a part of your tritype. As to whether it is core, that's a larger story (partly because I will not commit even to it being in your tritype, you'll have to do the searching to affirm or reject that). I'm one of those who thinks all 3 types can have a significant influence.

It's a good idea to figure out not just what is the "greatest" influence among the 3, but also consider the standpoint of which of the 3 you simply are unable to live without, i.e. which can truly stand alone, and this also relates to how the other drives (i.e. in the non-core centers) may have been to some level an offshoot of trying to deal with the core one. For instance, a core 9 may have developed a 5-like fixations when dealing with their inner 9 struggles.
I do not fancy the idea of being a Four – one of my best friends is, and she is extremely self-centered and inactive which is something I forcefully avoid being. Would you connect the attitude I have described in the first post with type Four, or could it be related to type One’s tendency to control their environment, or anything else? I am prone to believe that 6w7 has the strongest influence in my tritype considering the inclination to constant nervousness, self-doubt and apprehensiveness. Yet I literally spend so much time thinking what image I must possess, what I am inclined to say in certain abstract situations to express myself properly and what are the individualistic aspects of my identity – it’s crazy.
 

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I think ultimately what you've expressed seems to all spring from the concept of not wanting to be ordinary, and wanting to be unique. I don't think that's unique to a specific type, certainly doesn't mean any specific image type.

Consequently, I am prone to relentless self-questioning and second-guessing. For me, the actualized self is one of the main standards of success; if I am not completely certain of my identity, how do I know what I am passionate about?


This sounds like some 6 anxiety may just be playing a role. Yes ultimately you want to be something special, but is not being something special what is feared or is not having the ability to guide yourself to what is special about you at play? By its very nature of ambiguity I think this is something you'll have to chew on and there may or may not be a clear answer.
 

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FWIW I do not think your image type is 2. But I do think 3 with 2 and/or 4 influences is not at all ruled out just based on what you say. But again, if you decide 4 works for you based on looking deep within at your inner workings, then that is what it is. You'll as always not get much affirmation, only further questions, from me (until a somewhat indefinite stage, as you've probably figured out !)
 

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From my perspective it sounds pretty much like type 4.

Envy as general issue for 4s:

I really really know this strong feeling of envy, jealousy that turns into anger, competition and manipulation. I think 4s generally have a strong desire to be different and unique, and hell may break loose (internally at least) when this is threatened. Envy is a common issue for 4s, unfortunately. Those situations you described, I lived through them all myself. Very accurate description! I can say that envy has been the biggest issue for me during my teen years. It was so frustrating that it's hard to put in words.

ENFJs and identity:

For me, the actualized self is one of the main standards of success; if I am not completely certain of my identity, how do I know what I am passionate about? As a result, I don’t know what I am good at and become unable to work on maintaining success and security and get frustrated.
This could be your MBTI type intensifying the whole issue. I'm not sure if it's a general challenge for ENFJs but to me it seems like ENFJs tend to have a hard time finding their own identity, being really sure about who they are and what they want. This might be due to the Fe-dom. My ENFJ friend certainly had her troubles with it. To me it seems like that ENFJs roam the world to find something that resonates within them, and when they do they absorb and internalize it, make it their own identity. This isn't bad, it just means that their identity kinda depends on an outward stimulus.

However, my friend seems to be fine with all that, not experiencing envy or any intense need to be different (she doesn't even really mind being a copy, so to speak). So to me it looks like this synergy of the Enneagram thrust to uniqueness and the identity intake from outside is giving you a hard time. One makes you take in information and values that you see in others, the other one urging you to differentiate yourself from what you see in others.

I may be completely off here, but that's how it looks to me.

My personal envy survival pill of wisdom:

The only thing that really helped me with the whole envy mess was to stay the course, to not back down. If you find something that's so important to you that it becomes part of who you are (that you identify with as part of your identity), then go for it, no matter if other people have the same focus, the same hobby, better skills in it or more devotion for it. The whole envy thing is just an initial reaction to your uniqueness (or what you think makes you unique) being threatened. But this is only when you look at it in a superficial way. You might share the same hobby, the same emphasis, the same thing that is important to you with someone else, but it's not the interests that make you unique but the way you live them, the way you feel and think about them, the way you express them. Every time I thought my uniqueness to be threatened by a friend who suddenly had the same new interest that I had, over time I realized that I had a very personal approach to those things, quite different to my friend, that sometimes it meant something completely different to me than it meant for him, and that even in the interest/topic/hobby/etc. itself I had a very personal, unique emphasis. Whenever I realized that even in our similarities there is still enough space for uniqueness (for personal identity), all envy ceased to be an issue.

Hope this helps and wasn't just shenanigans. :happy:

Final thoughts:

I wouldn't necessarily use the word "unhealthy" as it's quite judgmental. I think we are all on our ways, and character/identity development and maturing simply take time. Especially during the teen years (full of identity issues anyway) it's really not that uncommon to experience those issues you mentioned above. And in case you're really a 4, some envy every once in a while is part of the job and simply an indicator to the beginning of a new season of character and identity refining. :happy:
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Yes ultimately you want to be something special, but is not being something special what is feared or is not having the ability to guide yourself to what is special about you at play? By its very nature of ambiguity I think this is something you'll have to chew on and there may or may not be a clear answer.
I am not afraid of not being special as much as I am afraid of being vague and undefined, because I strive for a collected, complete and harmonious character. I have a strong urge to be different and to do something different – I put a lot of thought and energy into self-expression. However, I am still very private, because I am anxious of being judged for being unreasonable or inconsiderate; I tend to weigh all possible consequences very carefully before sharing what is on my mind. Security, for me, is the harmonious and disciplined everyday life that revolves around doing something I am deeply passionate about and being able to correctly express myself in communication. Does this say anything?

FWIW I do not think your image type is 2.
Why? :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
@Soulfully thank you, your post is very helpful and I can relate to many things you say, especially the ENFJ part of it. Yet I am still not quite sure if I could be type Four over type Three, because I might just have a very strong w4. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
@reckless summer nights

Well more like, I don't think a stand-alone 2 has shown itself much -- not that I've seen things that totally rule it out. But I think by now probably I'd have noticed a little more in the way of 2.
You are right, thank you. :tongue: I could be type 2, but I am too messed up to admit how much I actually care about other people. For the record, I wish I was a 2.
 

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I'm a 4, and you don't sound too similar to me, so I think you can rule that one out. Maybe you have a four wing? I made a post asking about mistyping, and someone mentioned that they think the right description is the one that hurts to read because it really hits home. Look for that description? I know mine hurt to read because I knew it was so true. Good luck!
 
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