Personality Cafe banner

1 - 20 of 33 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
186 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi everyone,

I'm in my final year of college and I've had this small group of friends for the last 3 years (3 girls, 3 guys). We are the following personality types if people are curious/it matters at all: INFJ (me), INFP, ENFP, ENFP, ESTP (the person I was closest to in the group), ISFP (I made people do the test a while back haha and I can guess some of the types). We have done pretty much everything here together from academic stuff to going out and a few mini trips too. I met everyone's families and friends and was particularly close to one member of the group (this dude I had a bit of a crush on, but nothing ever happened between us). We used to hang out a lot and have dinner with a few of us every night (we lived right next to each other).

Last fall I got ill and couldn't go out and be as social as I used to for a while (I am still recovering) and it effected my mood too and made me not be the most energetic and wild person. I stopped going out and whenever we'd hang out I felt awkward cause I wasn't allowed to drink due to my health stuff, so I felt like I shouldn't really be there if I couldn't be more fun. There were also new people (exchange students, mostly girls) coming into our friend circle and a few of my male friends seemed to forget all their other friends when they came around. We started growing apart a little at this point and weren't as close as we had been the previous years.

I didn't expect people to not go out and live their best lives, but literally no one ever asked me if I was okay or anything. I spent days in my dorm room crying and people acted like they didn't notice. I used to talk to people about stuff and help them with their dating drama and work stress/whatever, go to their sports/race events, make elaborate birthday collages and I really cared about them. But when I needed a bit of empathy I got nothing. I threw a few minor tantrums over my misery and got a very bland response back, they were sorry I wasn't doing well (but they didn't offer to do anything about it).

I'm better this term but I just can't get over the shock/hurt of people's lack of caring. It is very sad because I legitimately used to love these people and I've spent the last years of my life absorbed in this college bubble, but it's burst now and I can't go back to just being happy-go-lucky when the people I cared about obviously didn't feel the same.

It's mid term of my final year so it's kind of hard to start making new friends at this point and a part of me is still sad for all those good times I used to have together with these people. I don't know what to do, I'm angry all the time these days and can't get over the hurt/rejection of how people treated me in the past. It's good to forgive and move past things but this feels icky, I can't even enjoy hanging out anymore when it all feels so fake.

People have told me in the past that I have quite high expectations for friendships, but I really don't think it's crazy to expect a bit of common decency. I understand that people can be a bit young, immature and just not know how to deal with health/mental health stuff, but I would have at least appreciated them kind of trying, even if they couldn't help that much.

Am I crazy for feeling incredibly hurt and disappointed? I want to end my college experience on a positive note but it's really hard.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,147 Posts
This is one of the bigger pitfalls of forming friendships with normies as time and time again they prove by their own actions that they didn't value the friendships. The lack of any real empathy from people can be absolutely shocking at times. People these days don't make friends, they make acquaintances and they are quick at moving on when they are no longer have need of the other person(s).
 

·
Registered
ENTJ
Joined
·
1,172 Posts
I've had this experience and it left me very disillusioned. To be fair, it often comes down to plain stupidity. People don't know what to do and assume healthcare is enough to 'fix' you. The good news is that you aren't deliberately being treated with disdain - it is not a sign of that you weren't good enough. It is Stupidity.

For me, I ignored these people for a bit as I focused on rebuilding my life and health. I partied hard with new people and suddenly everyone came crawling back to this dazzling beam of sunshine. This is when I took my revenge. I started telling them about my woes and forced them to take a stand, cutting out the real shitheads. I lectured them endlessly under the guise of "if this happens again, I need you to do XYZ". The fact that they agreed, meant they slowly earned my trust again.

Btw, When in doubt about a specific person, don't doorslam just yet. Remain mute for a while and decide when you're ready.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,841 Posts
For most people, friend means "someone that you can have a good time with" (no more or less). It's obvious that friend means more than that to you therefore you feeling incredibly hurt and disappointed. What happened to you actually normal because who really cares about people? Most people selfishly only care about the positive aspect of life therefore when you become toxic, they ditch you. They change friends like they change socks. That's the way it is. Well, what did you expect?

You wrote like you didn't have friends before college (like you don't have enough experience with having friends). I had a lot of "friends". Because they were a "friend", I didn't care about much about their life and they didn't care about my life. Yeah, we had fun but that was it. Those "friends" come and go, it's normal, it's expected. But I had friends too. I still in touch with some of them, some of them unfortunately dead or gone. Even though I had friends, my relationship with my friends was never like the friends in Friends (imdb link) and whatnot tv show.

About caring; perhaps you expected too much from some strangers (it doesn't matter if you had good times with them, they are still just some people). I mean; who really cares about people? Even some people have a family that doesn't care about their existence. It's human nature therefore expecting too much from some stranger is wishful thinking. Even your biological mother doesn't have to care about your life. That's the way it is.

It's really rare to meet with someone that really cares, someone who is there when you need help, et cetera. Such people are a real friend therefore I don't think what you have is friends. They are just some socks that you shouldn't attach to. If you get attached then of course you will get hurt and disappointed.

I think: You should stop expecting that people will repay you like they own you. You made some donation by caring about them but it doesn't mean they should care about you because you cared about them like you have entitlement. It was your choice so why do you seem like they own you? Are you some kind of moneylender and whatnot? It's your own business to help them with their life and it's their own business to care about you or not. That's the way it is. Next time; don't expect a payback for your good deeds. You are not living in some comic reality where when the superhero needs help, ordinary folks help the superhero. In real life, some people need a superhero, no one cares when a superhero needs help therefore superheroes falls when they need help therefore only a superhero can help themselves. That's the way it is.

Well, you can continue to be a "friend" of them. No need to be dramatic about their lack of caring. They are not your family member or something, you know. Accept them as they are, don't expect, don't overreact, don't be a drama queen, don't get too attached, don't be so serious about your relationship with "friends", do what feels right to you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
356 Posts
My initial reaction is that 4 of your 5 friends (i.e. the INFP, 2 ENFPs, and the ISFP) are Fi-users, and the only Fe-user (the ESTP) has Fe as their tertiary function. If the kind of empathy and such you were looking for is the kind you might associate with an Fe-user like yourself, then perhaps you did in fact have the wrong expectation for this particular group of people...
 
Joined
·
9,999 Posts
My initial reaction is that 4 of your 5 friends (i.e. the INFP, 2 ENFPs, and the ISFP) are Fi-users, and the only Fe-user (the ESTP) has Fe as their tertiary function. If the kind of empathy and such you were looking for is the kind you might associate with an Fe-user like yourself, then perhaps you did in fact have the wrong expectation for this particular group of people...
This is IMHO exactly it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,015 Posts
Groups - even majority Fi groups - have their own identities. People who defect from the purpose of the group can quickly find themselves on the outskirts; out of sight, out of mind.
In this case, the group theme was "FUN FUN - PARTY PARTY!". Without functioning inside the definition of the group, it's collective consciousness ceased to register you.
This sort of reality about all humanity is why I don't buy the nonsense where people conflate Fe with groups and hive mind. All of the types can fall into it, and even you probably have or will at some point without realizing, it's just human nature when certain criteria are in place.

Don't let this hurt the hope you have for real friendship. It does exist, maybe for others more than some of us ( :sad: ).
The more likely way to make real friends is on an individual basis, so if you do get together as a larger group, there are some real connections laced within that you can turn to in time of need. It doesn't mean you can't have people you join only for fun, just keep them in their proper category so you can manage your expectations for their behavior.

Another thing you might look into is analyzing how you comported yourself overall, and maybe isolate some things you could do a bit differently in future. Even if what you did wasn't "wrong", if it didn't actually work that well it might be something to modify for better results with others.

How did you convey your needs? You mentioned "minor tantrums"... does that mean you kept your problems to yourself, holding it all in until you exploded on them?
If so, keep in mind, most people don't respond well to this sort of thing. They often feel like they've been tested, and lost, and resent the person who didn't tell them the rules they were playing by.
A good rule of thumb is to communicate more clearly, sooner, and in smaller doses. I've been trying to teach myself this for what feels like forever.
Yes, I totally get that you would overlook people making small mistakes in this department, but most people won't, so there's little help for it but to adjust to them on this point.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,858 Posts
You have high standards for a friendship and that is nothing to be ashamed of. You should never apologise for that.

I learned the same thing the hard way. I was popular at high-school but I only felt close to a group of friends, maybe 8 in total over the entire high school period. And when we went our separate ways, to different schools afterwards, all but 2 stopped making contact with me. In hindsight there were small clues that this was about to happen. Whenever I got sick, certain people in this group would stop talking to me for short bursts. They'd use every excuse under the sun, but in reality, they just didn't want to have a sick friend. They wanted a friend who was always available to party and I couldn't be that.

Your friends shouldn't make you feel like a burden or a pest. Or it isn't an equal relationship.

So when it happened on a mass scale when we all finished school, I was genuinely heartbroken (although I kept those feelings well hidden). I felt betrayed because I'd seen these girls as my friends and we had previously discussed continuing to meet up, go to social gatherings and go shopping etc. (so it wasn't just all in my head that after school ended our social life together would continue as normal) and it all just ended abruptly.

They wouldn't return my calls, they'd pretend they didn't know me when I said hello to them in the streets (since we all lived very close this happened awkwardly often) and when I finally confronted some of them about it, they really didn't have any justification for their behaviour - which surprised me.

There was no secret reason, they just said it was too much effort to be friends with someone who they didn't see at school every day anymore. As I said, I felt betrayed, and vowed not to get that close to any new friends I made a future schools for my own survival. I take my relationships seriously and I made the mistake of assuming most of my peers also did. I was there for them whether they were having family troubles, healthy troubles etc. but they never were for me and I should have seen that that would impact our future relationships together.

I realise now that most of my current friends have told me this exact thing happened to them when they left school also. It wasn't about us as individuals - we hadn't done anything wrong, there was no grand argument or anything - some people just don't take their friendships 'that' seriously. And that's fine for them but it means people like you and I are incompatible with people like them - if you want to avoid being hurt.

My mother made a valuable point when I said all of this to her. She said it's easy to make friends out of proximity. Like making friends with colleagues, making friends with other students on the same university course as you, but if you have high standards for a friendship, just like with a romantic relationship you need to make sure your friends are on the same page as you. Are they only friends with you because you're someone to talk to to pass the time? Or are you a friend, for better or for worse, whether you work at the same office or not?

I'm sorry that this happened to you and I understand how it feels. I hope you aren't too discouraged from getting close to new friends in the future. I don't blame you for throwing the tantrum that you did.

Once I confronted one of my ex-friends who was pretending she didn't know me when we walked past each other, I did so only because for the first time in over a year, she decided to say hi...only to brag about the new salary she had and how she had a new boyfriend etc. She wasn't interested in hearing about what I'd been doing for the last 12 months.

So I cut the conversation short and I asked her why she was treating me like a stranger and also acting so differently...she barely had a response other than that it's too hard to be friends with someone who goes to a different school and that we didn't have the same social circle anymore.

That's just how some people are. But it made me question whether she had ever seen me as her friend or just something interesting to help her pass the time. Other friends made the excuse that "We don't go to the same parties" and that further illuminated that that was what this particular person wanted, a party-buddy, not a 'friend' by my definition. A person who is there for you no matter if you're at the worst stage of your life or you're the life of the party.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
79 Posts
You've gotten some good responses here, some I definitely have to read over because this is a problem I find myself in. Often. It was the main reason I used to think I was INFJ haha. I also have physical issues that make me miss out on a lot of activities sometimes and create depression and anxiety, and it has been a struggle to find friends who I feel care about me as much as I care for them. Even now, with a small group of friends (all separate from each other, they haven't met) they don't show much care for me the way I would want them to. If someone were sick, I would ask if I could go over to take care of them and so they didn't have to be alone. Especially if it was for more than a week. The reality is, they avoid telling me things and we'll go months without talking sometimes even though I'm like *where the heck are you, I would really like to see you* in my head, but that's just not the type of friendship they're looking for (seeing each other frequently).

I don't even know how to find friends and especially a romantic partner that values the type of consistent and compassionate relationship that I try to have with everyone.

I try to comfort myself by remembering people care in different ways, and once in a while, someone will surprise me. Not in a big way, just in that, we're having a conversation and I tell them something that happened and they say "you should have texted me, you didn't have to go through that alone". I also have been trying to show myself the love I've been giving to everyone else, and even though I still wish I had someone who was close to me the way I desire, it's working okay right now. It's odd because I've always ached for a relationship that is actually close and caring, and it's like I've lost something I never had. People have ex's they cry about and it makes sense, and I have had best friends throughout my life, but it feels weird to just have this ache.

Sorry I got off track. Blame it on my sleepy brain, or possibly my Fi haha. I, along with everyone else here, am just letting you know there are OTHERS OUT THERE who have been in this situation. Oh my god! Turns out we're not aliens. Haha I hope tonight/today is going well for you and I do believe you will find what you are looking for.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,052 Posts
I have found many people to be very self-serving, and actually I'm learning it can be good for my health to try to be more like that. You obviously know what's important in life and are a warm and caring person, but yes it is too much to expect that from everybody. For instance, let's say half the population is more a thinker than a feeler, they would likely be more content talking about interesting things, that would fill them up, rather than seeking harmony in relationships the way feelers are prone to. You may have to verbalize your needs to them.

I think that yes it's good to "have no expectations when it comes to other people, and you won't be disappointed". I have also read that when you place expectation on others, you're not respecting their boundaries because you are writing the script for them, expecting certain behavior, instead of letting them be themselves. Being a 1% of the population type, you are not likely to find many as moral and warm and intuitive as you are. I have also found that it has been a lifelong area of growth for me, to not become disillusioned with others. I have had to go back again and again and work on not hating people.

I have played around with 'guerilla meditation'...when stuff in my world gets hard, I get quiet and meditate immediately. I have discovered the coolest stuff doing this. There's a whole world of entertainment and fun inside this INFJ's body and mind, I tell ya. I think that the family I grew up in was not very familiar with and didn't respond well mostly to intuition, so I was overusing my extroverted Feeling. I just recently discovered that. Reason I mention that is because your post suggests you are very in tune with everyone else, they let you down...now it is time to get in touch with your introversion. Spend time doing quiet things, read, be by yourself, do art, walk in nature, hang with animals. It's normal to get hurt by others, I've found. The greatest gift you can start giving yourself is to revert back to self care when that happens. It's ok to lean on others but you will always have yourself, learn to nurture your love and caring for yourself.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
186 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
I've had this experience and it left me very disillusioned. To be fair, it often comes down to plain stupidity. People don't know what to do and assume healthcare is enough to 'fix' you. The good news is that you aren't deliberately being treated with disdain - it is not a sign of that you weren't good enough. It is Stupidity.

For me, I ignored these people for a bit as I focused on rebuilding my life and health. I partied hard with new people and suddenly everyone came crawling back to this dazzling beam of sunshine. This is when I took my revenge. I started telling them about my woes and forced them to take a stand, cutting out the real shitheads. I lectured them endlessly under the guise of "if this happens again, I need you to do XYZ". The fact that they agreed, meant they slowly earned my trust again.

Btw, When in doubt about a specific person, don't doorslam just yet. Remain mute for a while and decide when you're ready.
I have this inner bitterness and anger that makes me want to meet new people and live and amazing life and show them what they missed out on by abandoning me. But that's very immature and petty of me, and time in running out since college will be over in a few months and we will all go our own ways (I'm moving far away from the college back to my home city for a little bit to figure things out). I'm really wanting to doorslam all of these people and never talk to them again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
186 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
I think we do expect more in return than most. And the disappointment is a recurring theme throughout our entire life?
I think it is. I have some really good people in my life (friends from my old town), and I think I just took for granted that when you know someone for long enough/spend a lot of time together you develop a base level on friendship. I did at least, but I feel stupid for being the only one apparently.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
186 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Groups - even majority Fi groups - have their own identities. People who defect from the purpose of the group can quickly find themselves on the outskirts; out of sight, out of mind.
In this case, the group theme was "FUN FUN - PARTY PARTY!". Without functioning inside the definition of the group, it's collective consciousness ceased to register you.
This sort of reality about all humanity is why I don't buy the nonsense where people conflate Fe with groups and hive mind. All of the types can fall into it, and even you probably have or will at some point without realizing, it's just human nature when certain criteria are in place.

Don't let this hurt the hope you have for real friendship. It does exist, maybe for others more than some of us ( :sad: ).
The more likely way to make real friends is on an individual basis, so if you do get together as a larger group, there are some real connections laced within that you can turn to in time of need. It doesn't mean you can't have people you join only for fun, just keep them in their proper category so you can manage your expectations for their behavior.

Another thing you might look into is analyzing how you comported yourself overall, and maybe isolate some things you could do a bit differently in future. Even if what you did wasn't "wrong", if it didn't actually work that well it might be something to modify for better results with others.

How did you convey your needs? You mentioned "minor tantrums"... does that mean you kept your problems to yourself, holding it all in until you exploded on them?
If so, keep in mind, most people don't respond well to this sort of thing. They often feel like they've been tested, and lost, and resent the person who didn't tell them the rules they were playing by.
A good rule of thumb is to communicate more clearly, sooner, and in smaller doses. I've been trying to teach myself this for what feels like forever.
Yes, I totally get that you would overlook people making small mistakes in this department, but most people won't, so there's little help for it but to adjust to them on this point.
I agree, I did keep a lot of my feelings bottled inside until recently. I hate conflict and just wish people would "get it" sometimes without me having to spell it out for them. And I did tell people I've been ill and can't do these things and feel bad about being left out so much these days. I don't know what kind of instruction manual to basic human decency I need to make for people to get the following: a friend is someone who you care about - someone you care about is in pain/need a little support - as their friend you should offer them support in some form when they are struggling. I've literally done more for perfect strangers on a night out than these people ever have for me when this happened to me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
186 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
You have high standards for a friendship and that is nothing to be ashamed of. You should never apologise for that.

I learned the same thing the hard way. I was popular at high-school but I only felt close to a group of friends, maybe 8 in total over the entire high school period. And when we went our separate ways, to different schools afterwards, all but 2 stopped making contact with me. In hindsight there were small clues that this was about to happen. Whenever I got sick, certain people in this group would stop talking to me for short bursts. They'd use every excuse under the sun, but in reality, they just didn't want to have a sick friend. They wanted a friend who was always available to party and I couldn't be that.

Your friends shouldn't make you feel like a burden or a pest. Or it isn't an equal relationship.

So when it happened on a mass scale when we all finished school, I was genuinely heartbroken (although I kept those feelings well hidden). I felt betrayed because I'd seen these girls as my friends and we had previously discussed continuing to meet up, go to social gatherings and go shopping etc. (so it wasn't just all in my head that after school ended our social life together would continue as normal) and it all just ended abruptly.

They wouldn't return my calls, they'd pretend they didn't know me when I said hello to them in the streets (since we all lived very close this happened awkwardly often) and when I finally confronted some of them about it, they really didn't have any justification for their behaviour - which surprised me.

There was no secret reason, they just said it was too much effort to be friends with someone who they didn't see at school every day anymore. As I said, I felt betrayed, and vowed not to get that close to any new friends I made a future schools for my own survival. I take my relationships seriously and I made the mistake of assuming most of my peers also did. I was there for them whether they were having family troubles, healthy troubles etc. but they never were for me and I should have seen that that would impact our future relationships together.

I realise now that most of my current friends have told me this exact thing happened to them when they left school also. It wasn't about us as individuals - we hadn't done anything wrong, there was no grand argument or anything - some people just don't take their friendships 'that' seriously. And that's fine for them but it means people like you and I are incompatible with people like them - if you want to avoid being hurt.

My mother made a valuable point when I said all of this to her. She said it's easy to make friends out of proximity. Like making friends with colleagues, making friends with other students on the same university course as you, but if you have high standards for a friendship, just like with a romantic relationship you need to make sure your friends are on the same page as you. Are they only friends with you because you're someone to talk to to pass the time? Or are you a friend, for better or for worse, whether you work at the same office or not?

I'm sorry that this happened to you and I understand how it feels. I hope you aren't too discouraged from getting close to new friends in the future. I don't blame you for throwing the tantrum that you did.

Once I confronted one of my ex-friends who was pretending she didn't know me when we walked past each other, I did so only because for the first time in over a year, she decided to say hi...only to brag about the new salary she had and how she had a new boyfriend etc. She wasn't interested in hearing about what I'd been doing for the last 12 months.

So I cut the conversation short and I asked her why she was treating me like a stranger and also acting so differently...she barely had a response other than that it's too hard to be friends with someone who goes to a different school and that we didn't have the same social circle anymore.

That's just how some people are. But it made me question whether she had ever seen me as her friend or just something interesting to help her pass the time. Other friends made the excuse that "We don't go to the same parties" and that further illuminated that that was what this particular person wanted, a party-buddy, not a 'friend' by my definition. A person who is there for you no matter if you're at the worst stage of your life or you're the life of the party.
I'm sorry that that happened to you. Some people really suck. I think I was just naive and have had to grow up a lot and learn that loyalty and friendship aren't such intense core values for a lot of people. I had really good friends back in my home town (we are still in contact weekly through skype and I visit on holidays) and I think I kind of learned that I could trust people the care for their friends on a basic base level at least. Looking back most of my close childhood/teenage friends are empaths and just very very kind and good people and don't give a realistic impression of the general population.

I think I just sucked into the life here, I really enjoy a sense of community and like most INFJs am good at being a chameleon and morphing into any environment (at least momentarily). The fucked up thing is that I have felt incredibly sad/guilty/ashamed of getting ill over the last year, since that was the feedback I got back from my college life environment. Now I'm just so angry all the time and I can't even hang out with these people anymore. I would rather be alone and miserable in my dorm room than partying with people who don't care about me at all. Idk, guess this is a bit of a depressing end to my college career but I've got too much pride to let these people treat me like this anymore. I'm embarrassed I cared so much and that I didn't see this for what it was.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
186 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
You've gotten some good responses here, some I definitely have to read over because this is a problem I find myself in. Often. It was the main reason I used to think I was INFJ haha. I also have physical issues that make me miss out on a lot of activities sometimes and create depression and anxiety, and it has been a struggle to find friends who I feel care about me as much as I care for them. Even now, with a small group of friends (all separate from each other, they haven't met) they don't show much care for me the way I would want them to. If someone were sick, I would ask if I could go over to take care of them and so they didn't have to be alone. Especially if it was for more than a week. The reality is, they avoid telling me things and we'll go months without talking sometimes even though I'm like *where the heck are you, I would really like to see you* in my head, but that's just not the type of friendship they're looking for (seeing each other frequently).

I don't even know how to find friends and especially a romantic partner that values the type of consistent and compassionate relationship that I try to have with everyone.

I try to comfort myself by remembering people care in different ways, and once in a while, someone will surprise me. Not in a big way, just in that, we're having a conversation and I tell them something that happened and they say "you should have texted me, you didn't have to go through that alone". I also have been trying to show myself the love I've been giving to everyone else, and even though I still wish I had someone who was close to me the way I desire, it's working okay right now. It's odd because I've always ached for a relationship that is actually close and caring, and it's like I've lost something I never had. People have ex's they cry about and it makes sense, and I have had best friends throughout my life, but it feels weird to just have this ache.

Sorry I got off track. Blame it on my sleepy brain, or possibly my Fi haha. I, along with everyone else here, am just letting you know there are OTHERS OUT THERE who have been in this situation. Oh my god! Turns out we're not aliens. Haha I hope tonight/today is going well for you and I do believe you will find what you are looking for.
Wow your post gave me chills I could feel the empathy through the screen :> Are you sure you're not an INFJ or ISFJ (not trying to be rude, I'm sure there are plenty of very empathic INFPs out there too)

This feels like it was written by me, I can relate so much to the feelings of aching for something that you never even had. I really don't want to become bitter and I want to be the happy version of myself that trusts people and want to be a part of the world in a positive way. It's just sooo hard to find "your people", even when you think for a moment you maybe did. I loved being part of this group and it consumed my life for a long time, I thought there was really something magical here.

I have tried to be very understanding that we are young people and most college aged humans who haven't gone through a lot of adversity/struggles in their lives don't have the capability for high levels of empathy. I want everyone to still have a good time and party and I would never have stopped them, I'd be right there with them if this illusion of friendship/health hadn't shattered. But I know 100% without hesitation if something bad had happened to anyone else in this group I would have dropped everything and skipped whatever parties to make sure to check on any of them. At least offer the support so at least they knew it was there if they needed it. Friends need to put their own discomfort with illness/serious topics aside for a little bit to help someone they care about who is in pain. I can't ever get over and forgive the lack of caring I've seen from these people and I don't think I can even be "casual friends" with them anymore because I feel so much hurt and anger. Not very mature and INFJ-like of me maybe but I'm not that old and wise yet, I get to be petty too sometimes :,p
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
270 Posts
I'll play devil's advocate here because I can easily see myself in the place of your friends. Let me explain:

I have a lot of friends. A lot! Dozens, from various social groups. Some from school, some from college, some from the internet and fandoms, some even from very far away places. The amount of time I dedicate to any given person waxes and wanes. My friendship process usually goes like this: a very intense first moment where we get to know each other, and then less frequent contacts, weekly or monthly or whatnot, depending on how much we have in common. Sometimes, I'll catch up with person A and be very close to them for a while. Sometimes, I won't be talking to A that much but I'll give a lot of attention to B and C.

I just like people, and I like meeting new people and learning from them. My point here being: if a new person joins my established social circle, I do have a tendency to give them extra attention until we get to know each other, and I also do have a tendency to wander back and forth between groups.

But! That doesn't mean my friends can't count on me or the other way round. For instance: I have this one very dear friend whose boyfried moved out of town, and she texted me saying "Hey, now that he's away I've been feeling lonely, do you think we could hang out more often?" and the answer is yes! Absolutely! I have now been made aware this friend requires special attention and I'm all willing to give it to her.

I also have friends who don't have a good financial situation, and sometimes they'll go "I wanted to go out but can't afford to and this makes me feel a bit excluded," and bam! I'll go out of my way to pick them up at their places and go with them to free expositions or parks or whatever else.

The key thing here is dialogue, and that has a bit to do with knowing how your friends work. I'm saying this because if I was in your group, I'd certainly be one of the people you're upset with. If you don't tell me "Hey, I'm not having so much fun when we hang out because I can't drink, do you think we could do something else next time?" I sure as hell won't connect these dots, if only because it wouldn't make me uncomfortable.

If you don't tell me "You know, since I've been sick I'm not so energetic for our usual fun times but I still feel kinda lonely, could we try something less wild sometime?" then I won't know, because when I feel those things I very directly tell people, and so if you didn't say anything then my natural response is to think everything is fine.

I threw a few minor tantrums over my misery and got a very bland response back, they were sorry I wasn't doing well (but they didn't offer to do anything about it)
This in particularly would drive me up the wall because I would not understand it. I would interpret it wrong 99% of times. I'd feel controlled or worse, manipulated, and that would definitely push me further away.

I think what this all comes down to is: I don't think you're overreacting, and I don't think you're wrong to want to be cared for. But I also don't think what they did means, in an absolute sense, that they don't care. I think communication between you wasn't the best and perhaps you expected them to read you the same way you read people, but that's... not the norm.

We are each and everyone the core of our own human experiences. We interpret the things under our own light. From my point of view, there's a very good chance I'd think things were fine between us. From my point of view, the distance would only be a natural part of the friendship process. And from my point of view, the occasional tantrum would make me confused and frustrated and would absolutely not help me notice the things you need noticed. Notify me your needs. I will respond to them to the best of my capacities.

The mistake here, maybe, isn't to expect to be cared for, but to expect to be read. To expect people to be aware of things that may be obvious to you, but aren't clear to everyone else. I don't know. I think there might be negligence - hell, I don't know them, and I don't know you - but in my experience, those problems are mainly caused by miscommunication, and had they awareness and comprehension of what you needed, they would try to accomodate it better.

But again, the whole situation is always way more complex than what can be explained in an online post; I just hope my angle on things helps!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
186 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
I have found many people to be very self-serving, and actually I'm learning it can be good for my health to try to be more like that. You obviously know what's important in life and are a warm and caring person, but yes it is too much to expect that from everybody. For instance, let's say half the population is more a thinker than a feeler, they would likely be more content talking about interesting things, that would fill them up, rather than seeking harmony in relationships the way feelers are prone to. You may have to verbalize your needs to them.

I think that yes it's good to "have no expectations when it comes to other people, and you won't be disappointed". I have also read that when you place expectation on others, you're not respecting their boundaries because you are writing the script for them, expecting certain behavior, instead of letting them be themselves. Being a 1% of the population type, you are not likely to find many as moral and warm and intuitive as you are. I have also found that it has been a lifelong area of growth for me, to not become disillusioned with others. I have had to go back again and again and work on not hating people.

I have played around with 'guerilla meditation'...when stuff in my world gets hard, I get quiet and meditate immediately. I have discovered the coolest stuff doing this. There's a whole world of entertainment and fun inside this INFJ's body and mind, I tell ya. I think that the family I grew up in was not very familiar with and didn't respond well mostly to intuition, so I was overusing my extroverted Feeling. I just recently discovered that. Reason I mention that is because your post suggests you are very in tune with everyone else, they let you down...now it is time to get in touch with your introversion. Spend time doing quiet things, read, be by yourself, do art, walk in nature, hang with animals. It's normal to get hurt by others, I've found. The greatest gift you can start giving yourself is to revert back to self care when that happens. It's ok to lean on others but you will always have yourself, learn to nurture your love and caring for yourself.
Thank you for your thoughtful response, this forum always gives me hope for humanity when I feel that I'm starting to get bitter. It is true that it's selfish of me to expect others to act the way I do, but I've just been discovering in the last years that others don't overthink and over care about things as much as I do (I always assumed I was just a baseline person and that there are plenty out there).

I think I need to learn to "toughen up" a bit and take this experience as a life lesson. I'm gonna be spending a lot of time on my own for the rest of this college term, since I'm not really interested in my "friends" company anymore and it feels icky to hang out with them now knowing that things aren't at all what I thought. So on the bright side I've got more time for self-exploration, reading, creative stuff and trying to find things things that I enjoy when I'm not trying to fit into groups of people and morphing my personality and interests to maintain group harmony. Well, I've still got a bit of that bitterness but I'm working on it :p
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
186 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
I'll play devil's advocate here because I can easily see myself in the place of your friends. Let me explain:

I have a lot of friends. A lot! Dozens, from various social groups. Some from school, some from college, some from the internet and fandoms, some even from very far away places. The amount of time I dedicate to any given person waxes and wanes. My friendship process usually goes like this: a very intense first moment where we get to know each other, and then less frequent contacts, weekly or monthly or whatnot, depending on how much we have in common. Sometimes, I'll catch up with person A and be very close to them for a while. Sometimes, I won't be talking to A that much but I'll give a lot of attention to B and C.

I just like people, and I like meeting new people and learning from them. My point here being: if a new person joins my established social circle, I do have a tendency to give them extra attention until we get to know each other, and I also do have a tendency to wander back and forth between groups.

But! That doesn't mean my friends can't count on me or the other way round. For instance: I have this one very dear friend whose boyfried moved out of town, and she texted me saying "Hey, now that he's away I've been feeling lonely, do you think we could hang out more often?" and the answer is yes! Absolutely! I have now been made aware this friend requires special attention and I'm all willing to give it to her.

I also have friends who don't have a good financial situation, and sometimes they'll go "I wanted to go out but can't afford to and this makes me feel a bit excluded," and bam! I'll go out of my way to pick them up at their places and go with them to free expositions or parks or whatever else.

The key thing here is dialogue, and that has a bit to do with knowing how your friends work. I'm saying this because if I was in your group, I'd certainly be one of the people you're upset with. If you don't tell me "Hey, I'm not having so much fun when we hang out because I can't drink, do you think we could do something else next time?" I sure as hell won't connect these dots, if only because it wouldn't make me uncomfortable.

If you don't tell me "You know, since I've been sick I'm not so energetic for our usual fun times but I still feel kinda lonely, could we try something less wild sometime?" then I won't know, because when I feel those things I very directly tell people, and so if you didn't say anything then my natural response is to think everything is fine.



This in particularly would drive me up the wall because I would not understand it. I would interpret it wrong 99% of times. I'd feel controlled or worse, manipulated, and that would definitely push me further away.

I think what this all comes down to is: I don't think you're overreacting, and I don't think you're wrong to want to be cared for. But I also don't think what they did means, in an absolute sense, that they don't care. I think communication between you wasn't the best and perhaps you expected them to read you the same way you read people, but that's... not the norm.

We are each and everyone the core of our own human experiences. We interpret the things under our own light. From my point of view, there's a very good chance I'd think things were fine between us. From my point of view, the distance would only be a natural part of the friendship process. And from my point of view, the occasional tantrum would make me confused and frustrated and would absolutely not help me notice the things you need noticed. Notify me your needs. I will respond to them to the best of my capacities.

The mistake here, maybe, isn't to expect to be cared for, but to expect to be read. To expect people to be aware of things that may be obvious to you, but aren't clear to everyone else. I don't know. I think there might be negligence - hell, I don't know them, and I don't know you - but in my experience, those problems are mainly caused by miscommunication, and had they awareness and comprehension of what you needed, they would try to accomodate it better.

But again, the whole situation is always way more complex than what can be explained in an online post; I just hope my angle on things helps!
This is such a good point, thank you for your response! I admit that I am a very sensitive and at times needy person, I give a lot and expect a lot in return too. I don't think my friends are bad people, I just have a really hard time accepting that people don't notice things if they care about someone. I think a part of the reason for my anger/disappointment is that I feel so unimportant to people who meant so much to me, it's kind of an ego blow and it makes me question my own judgement of people (I always thought I was pretty good at seeing people for who they are and have in the past).

I think I've also probably pushed certain people in the group away so much and caused them to dislike me for my emotional drama that I don't even feel comfortable in that group anymore even if I found a way to get past my own issues with people. I can't feel comfortable in a group where someone doesn't like me or if we have unresolved issues, it makes me feel physically ill. So in a way right now I'm choosing the easier way and just shutting everyone out completely. If I leave them they can't leave me and all that.

I think people also grow apart, I used to be much more in my Fe-Se at the start of college and now am gravitating strongly to me Ni-Ti side again. It's kind of awkward since I'm gonna see these people still all the time over the next months since we live near each other and have classes together still. It does hurt to see them because I remember all the good times, but I think the ship has kind of sailed on that right now. I can't have fun with people/casually hang out without resolving the issues properly, and I know these people have no interest in that. So here we are, me spending the last term of college alone in my dorm room avoiding everyone because of shame and pride.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,147 Posts
I have found many people to be very self-serving, and actually I'm learning it can be good for my health to try to be more like that. You obviously know what's important in life and are a warm and caring person, but yes it is too much to expect that from everybody. For instance, let's say half the population is more a thinker than a feeler, they would likely be more content talking about interesting things, that would fill them up, rather than seeking harmony in relationships the way feelers are prone to. You may have to verbalize your needs to them.

I think that yes it's good to "have no expectations when it comes to other people, and you won't be disappointed". I have also read that when you place expectation on others, you're not respecting their boundaries because you are writing the script for them, expecting certain behavior, instead of letting them be themselves. Being a 1% of the population type, you are not likely to find many as moral and warm and intuitive as you are. I have also found that it has been a lifelong area of growth for me, to not become disillusioned with others. I have had to go back again and again and work on not hating people.

I have played around with 'guerilla meditation'...when stuff in my world gets hard, I get quiet and meditate immediately. I have discovered the coolest stuff doing this. There's a whole world of entertainment and fun inside this INFJ's body and mind, I tell ya. I think that the family I grew up in was not very familiar with and didn't respond well mostly to intuition, so I was overusing my extroverted Feeling. I just recently discovered that. Reason I mention that is because your post suggests you are very in tune with everyone else, they let you down...now it is time to get in touch with your introversion. Spend time doing quiet things, read, be by yourself, do art, walk in nature, hang with animals. It's normal to get hurt by others, I've found. The greatest gift you can start giving yourself is to revert back to self care when that happens. It's ok to lean on others but you will always have yourself, learn to nurture your love and caring for yourself.
I like to do this myself however normies don't like it all when other people disconnect from meat space while working to the point where I couldn't put up with it anymore and had to quit a job last year. Guerilla meditation does wonders when given the opportunity but unfortunately being stuck around people too much makes it so much harder.
 
1 - 20 of 33 Posts
Top