Personality Cafe banner

Am I an INTJ or something else?

  • INTJ

    Votes: 1 20.0%
  • INFJ

    Votes: 1 20.0%
  • ENTJ

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ESTJ

    Votes: 1 20.0%
  • ISFJ

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ESFJ

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ISTJ

    Votes: 1 20.0%
  • ENFJ

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ISTP

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ESTP

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • INFP

    Votes: 1 20.0%
  • ESFP

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ISFP

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ENFP

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • INTP

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ENTP

    Votes: 0 0.0%
1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
522 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
WARNING: Extremely long post, so read on your own risk :violin:

After a long time away from the forum and MBTI as a whole I ended up turning to it in my search for answers pertaining to the big inconsistencies I found in my external behaviour versus my actual internal feelings and desires. In this process I've been rereading a lot of articles and threads on INTJs and the same things keep troubling me and those are:

1- How drastically I have changed from my childhood to now
2- My Inferior Function
3- Me at my best vs me at my worst in relation to MBTI

1- How drastically I have changed from my childhood to now

I did start a thread about the first point yesterday: Did you behave very differently as a child? but it did nothing but make me wanna dif even more into it and what I found makes me seriously start doubting my typing :indecisiveness:

Now I understand that external behaviour have many roots and that neither MBTI or Enneagram will be able to explain everything about why and how a human develops and changes, but the truth is the INTJ traits I display today showed little signs of existing until I was about nine years old and had already suffered from a whole lot of stressful situations that weren't isolated, but which were continuous and very traumatic. My story will probably sound very dramatic and exaggerated but I feel like it might be useful so here it goes:

It's sufficient to say I lived with an alcoholic grandmother which sometimes would act in a very extreme way and was the source of anxiety issues I just very recently reigned in; had a messy relationship with my father and his family after my parents divorce, which included being treated as less valuable than and responsible for my new half sister and was psychologically terrorized and manipulated by a classmate through guilt and intimidation for a whole school year without any adult knowing about it until years later. She them proceeded to be the ringleader of a group of bullies who made my life hell for the next year and tried to ruin each and every personal relationship I had in school and jeopardize my reputation with the teachers. While all this was happening I had no understanding or support at home for my mom just wouldn't listen to me or believe me whenever I tried to talk to her about it, she would basically shut me down and say that I must have done something to bring it upon me.

All this stress, fear, hurt and loneliness physically manifested itself on my school holidays before the start of third grade when I gained thirteen pound in a combination of binge eating and vitamin supplements my mom forced me to take and that were completely unnecessary. My problems just snowballed from that because my confidence and sense of self worth was demolished form the on and only regained in recent years when I started to lose all that weight. I completely had one of my biggest passions which is dancing abandoned due to shame of my appearance and had no social life for years due to paranoia based on the bullying I suffered from being fat during school. In the past two years I managed to lose all the extra 70 pounds that had the real me buried underneath, and during this process and specially in these last few months I feel like the "me" I've been for the past decade and a half just doesn't fit me anymore like a pair of jeans that's now too loose.


2- My Inferior Function

INTJs supposedly have a very weak Se which would manifest as either 1- not valuing engaging in the physical world or in physical activities 2-or/and not being very skilled at it. But with me, it's the opposite.

As I mentioned in my previously linked thread, as a young child before all the craziness took over my life, I not only enjoyed engaging with the physical but was very naturally talented at it. I was always a great dancer even though I completely stopped taking classes or ever dancing in any company except my own for about ten years, even being obese I was always a really fast walker and runner (how I have no idea, image extra 70 pounds on a 4'11" body :th_woot:), have really great reflexes and was able to handle emergency situations (my grandmother had three serious physical accident before passing away and I was completely alone with her in all of them). I have also always been a highly visual person not only being obsessed with things like fashion, image consulting, photography and sightseeing as I have always had great visual memory and reading visual cues. I was always the first one to spot something different in the environment, only ever losing sense of it when listening to music (that really takes me somewhere else). I'm very sensitive to sensual stimulation, specially sounds (like I said, if there's music playing the rest of the world gets drowned) and smells.

I also pay a whole lot of attention to physical appearance, not only mine and others, but of the environments I surround myself with as well. I need beauty to function, if things are not aesthetically pleasing then I instantly envision ways in which it could be improved. Not to mention the central reason of my now conquered but long lasting depression and self hate was my physical form. Now I like the way I look so much and the responses I get I sometimes find reasons to go out on errands so I can use new outfits and be seen and admired by people. My biggest problem in practical life also seems to be that I'm too hedonistic to actually get anything done because there's always something more interesting to occupy my time with than with very necessary and pressing, but utterly monotonous activities like house chores, documentation or exact sciences.

3- Me at my best vs me at my worst in relation to MBTI

After answering several cognitive functions tests and watching some INTJ centric Youtube videos it got me thinking about stress. I then came across this article Accurate Typing: The Inferior Function and this is how it explains the Inferior Functions:

The inferior function plays an interesting role in type theory. It represents the aspect of reality that we have the most difficulty understanding and accepting - it is the darkest part of your personality.

As we grow up, we unconsciously reject or suppress the inferior function in order to give the dominant function more energy and control. However, when we are under intense emotional stress or no longer have enough mental energy for our dominant function to work properly, the lower functions start to take over, allowing previously unconscious urges or impulses to emerge. When we are in a state of extreme stress or mental fatigue, we tend to rely more on automatic or primitive coping behaviors. During these times, the repressed energy of the inferior function erupts into our conscious mind and, since this function is the opposite of our normal approach to life, the behaviors are more likely to manifest in an unhealthy or destructive form (a.k.a. being in the grip of the inferior function).
This is how Inferior Se would manifest to an INTJ:
- Do you feel your world is too small and the future seems bleak or opaque? Do you feel mentally shut down, like you are tired of thinking? Do you feel as though the whole world is against you, throwing up every possible obstacle to plague you? (loss of healthy dominant Ni functioning) Do you often feel an underlying anger or ready to rant/rage at the slightest provocation, or want to systematically tear someone down? Do you make a lot of careless mistakes with minor details? Do you restlessly seek out “facts” to support your ideas/actions? Do you stew about events that you know are out of your control, sometimes berating yourself for past mistakes or desperately wanting a do-over? Do you become more clumsy and lose some control over your body? Do you feel the urge to lose yourself in some physical task like cleaning, organizing, exercising, or mastering a hands-on skill? Do you compulsively check on certain things or fuss about aesthetic details in your environment, even your/others’ physical appearance? Do you get strong urges to escape from negative emotions through sensory pleasures like excessive partying, drinking, drugs, eating, sex, etc., and then afterwards kick yourself for such “shallow” or useless behavior? Do you get a strong urge to do something wild or crazy because of feeling disturbed by underlying restlessness? (Inferior Se acts out impulsively or recklessly in response to events/situations that are perceived to be negative or unexpected because of losing sight of the meaning and consequence behind one’s behaviors)
The thing is I can't relate to ANY of it with maybe the exception of the bolded quote. I did become lousy at sports playing during PE classes in school, but it only lasted for the two years in which I was constantly and publicly harassed by my own teacher and peers and once I changed schools, it went away. I believe it was a mental blockage. Since I'm already a very sensitive person, I do not feel an increase at it under stress, there's no change.

But right beneath it, I found the most perfect, play-by-play description of me at my worst that I could ever come up with:

- Do you suddenly feel like life is very serious and you can’t help being irritable, gloomy, withdrawn, or negative? Do you become less tolerant of people or change? Do you feel plagued by chronic boredom, restlessness, or lack of passion? (loss of healthy dominant Se functioning) Do you feel that life is out of control or too confusing? Do you feel overwhelmed by fear, self doubt, disturbing mental images, or your own incompetence, like you are losing touch with reality or even going crazy? Do you look for positive or negative “signs” to confirm your suspicions or insecurities? Do you get paranoid and start fearing that people have ulterior motives and are trying to take advantage of you or pull the wool over your eyes? Do you start to panic about some (imagined) negative future outcome? Do you feel deeply disturbed by not having or meeting any long term goals or achievements, especially when compared to the “successful” people around you? Do you suddenly and inexplicably feel the urge to seek out a higher purpose or deeper meaning for your life? Do you suddenly feel drawn to mystical ideas or spiritual exploration? (Inferior Ni withdraws into irrational pessimism, paranoia, or distrust of life because of losing confidence and connectedness to the new/positive aspects of the world)
I bolded all of it because everything in it it's true. That's the exact pattern of how I have felt and behaved for almost twenty years and how I have to consciously stop myself from slipping into when something stressful happens. I'll stop here because Wall of China of text, but here are my typing threads from ages ago Desperately Seeking MBTI Type & Am I a type 4, 5 or 8?, I think my answered questionnaires in the first pages of which one might give more insight.


So after this lengthy novel what do you guys think? Am I a lost INTJ or something else completely? :anyone:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,276 Posts
I related to the first passage about inferior Se and in the second passage up to the part about lack of passion. You might not actually be INTJ but we're just repressing your feelings and so related to the robot stereotype of the INTJ. Do you relate to the imaginative and strategic part of the INTJ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
522 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I related to the first passage about inferior Se and in the second passage up to the part about lack of passion. You might not actually be INTJ but we're just repressing your feelings and so related to the robot stereotype of the INTJ. Do you relate to the imaginative and strategic part of the INTJ?
I really don't understand what you mean with this sentence.

I'm definitely imaginative and strategic, but I'm not sure it manifest itself in a way which is uniquely INTJ, or even if that fits within the framework you have in mind when referring to it. What do you have in mind?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,276 Posts
I really don't understand what you mean with this sentence.

I'm definitely imaginative and strategic, but I'm not sure it manifest itself in a way which is uniquely INTJ, or even if that fits within the framework you have in mind when referring to it. What do you have in mind?
Based on an Se-Dom and inferior Ni you'd either be a ESTP or ESFP. I was asking if you had the analytical strategic unique thinking of an INTJ based off the Ni and Te, and if you relate to the INTJ in anything else other than emotional discomfort
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
522 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Based on an Se-Dom and inferior Ni you'd either be a ESTP or ESFP. I was asking if you had the analytical strategic unique thinking of an INTJ based off the Ni and Te, and if you relate to the INTJ in anything else other than emotional discomfort
In relation to Ni I do relate a lot to the truth seeking, underlying theme finding and convergent vs divergent thinking and the "gut feeling" aspect, with Te it seems to line up with my line of thinking but when it comes to acting, I'll mostly try to delegate the actual implementation of the steps to someone else, because I'm generally not good at all with follow through. I can see and point out what needs to be done, but have little interest or patience to do it myself.

For example I've been worked in entertainment for a while, and while planning the concept of a release comes easily, working out the actual logistics of it's something I'm really glad I don't have to do, I think it'd drive me mad.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
You enjoy and are efficient at the conceptual part of your work but dislike all the busywork and logistics.

That sounds rather INTJ to me.

Question: why do you really care about which type you are? you seem efficient at your job; just because you don't act like a stereotypical INTJ does under duress doesn't mean that you aren't one. everyone copes with stress differently.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,276 Posts
Read up on ESFP and ESTP and get back to us
In relation to Ni I do relate a lot to the truth seeking, underlying theme finding and convergent vs divergent thinking and the "gut feeling" aspect, with Te it seems to line up with my line of thinking but when it comes to acting, I'll mostly try to delegate the actual implementation of the steps to someone else, because I'm generally not good at all with follow through. I can see and point out what needs to be done, but have little interest or patience to do it myself.

For example I've been worked in entertainment for a while, and while planning the concept of a release comes easily, working out the actual logistics of it's something I'm really glad I don't have to do, I think it'd drive me mad.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
522 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
You enjoy and are efficient at the conceptual part of your work but dislike all the busywork and logistics.

That sounds rather INTJ to me.

Question: why do you really care about which type you are? you seem efficient at your job; just because you don't act like a stereotypical INTJ does under duress doesn't mean that you aren't one. everyone copes with stress differently.
Why do you care about which type you are? It seems rather odd that an inherently curious and analytical type such as an INTJ would suggest that efficiency at work should suffice. That sounds very ISTJ to me. Why would I be on a personality typing forum if I wasn't interested in a self analytical internal journey?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
822 Posts
do you prefer Se over Ni? I know if im focusing, my Se can seem really refined...I often have fast reflexes and can perform well doing activities which rely heavily on Se...

However, if I am navigating through life on autopilot, I end up bumping into a wall....

Obviously you don't have to bump into a wall to be an INTJ, it's more so a running joke, but I've been doing it my whole life so I find it to be an amusing anecdote to tell.

Its important to note that an Se Dom would have to be an extrovert, but it doesn't necessarily mean you want to always be around people. Jung defined extroverts with a different picture in mind I think. They were people focused on the object itself, and didn't value the subject(I) as something containing more value.

In other words, the (I) would form a representation of the object, while the (E) would focus on the object itself and value their inward projections less. So an Se dom would become kind of "one" with their environment, while the (I) would live more in their head.

edit: my first impression of you is an INTJ with a strong inferior function(Se). Ability doesn't necessitate preference.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
522 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
do you prefer Se over Ni? I know if im focusing, my Se can seem really refined...I often have fast reflexes and can perform well doing activities which rely heavily on Se...

However, if I am navigating through life on autopilot, I end up bumping into a wall....

Obviously you don't have to bump into a wall to be an INTJ, it's more so a running joke, but I've been doing it my whole life so I find it to be an amusing anecdote to tell.

Its important to note that an Se Dom would have to be an extrovert, but it doesn't necessarily mean you want to always be around people. Jung defined extroverts with a different picture in mind I think. They were people focused on the object itself, and didn't value the subject(I) as something containing more value.

In other words, the (I) would form a representation of the object, while the (E) would focus on the object itself and value their inward projections less. So an Se dom would become kind of "one" with their environment, while the (I) would live more in their head.

edit: my first impression of you is an INTJ with a strong inferior function(Se). Ability doesn't necessitate preference.
That's very interesting. Would it be like for example, admiring and considering a beautiful object (whether a thing or a human) to be perfect in itself, for beauty is already meaningful enough on it's own and the joy it brings to the ones contemplating it justifies its existence? Because that's how I feel, I honestly don't understand why so many people think beauty (in a greater sense, I'm not just referring to human attractiveness) is superficial thing. I find it very essential to life and very meaningful.

I should reread Jung, it's been a long while.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
Why do you care about which type you are? It seems rather odd that an inherently curious and analytical type such as an INTJ would suggest that efficiency at work should suffice. That sounds very ISTJ to me. Why would I be on a personality typing forum if I wasn't interested in a self analytical internal journey?
Interesting retort.

Now if you were truly bent on figuring out how to accurately categorize yourself according to an archetypal model you would innately have to know that archetypes are unreachable standards as human are nothing more than fickle monkeys with the gift of consciousness whereas archetypes are rigid theoretical models.

Now the second inference is that if you're doubting your own results from what I'm assuming to be an online test where only you could be the source of bias. What makes you think that other people can accurately assess what you are via the medium of qualitative description?

Writing qualitatively innately induces bias; interpreting qualitative writing adds another layer of bias. Now assuming that the online test has an inaccuracy factor of "one" to account for self-bias. Then asking people for an accurate description of you via qualities would therefore have an inaccuracy factor of "two" to account for the bias from the writer and the reader.

Other people can't type you anymore accurately than you can type yourself, but I'm assuming that you're just looking to prove that you're not an INTJ if you're really asking a question along these lines.

If that's the case, feel free to disregard this post and best of luck with your "self analytical internal journey".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
822 Posts
That's very interesting. Would it be like for example, admiring and considering a beautiful object (whether a thing or a human) to be perfect in itself, for beauty is already meaningful enough on it's own and the joy it brings to the ones contemplating it justifies its existence? Because that's how I feel, I honestly don't understand why so many people think beauty (in a greater sense, I'm not just referring to human attractiveness) is superficial thing. I find it very essential to life and very meaningful.

I should reread Jung, it's been a long while.
Hmm, I suppose it could be worded like that. However simply finding something beautiful in and of itself wouldnt determine type, it would be more of a general preference to how you perceive the outside world overall.

For example, an INTJ must use Ni, because they cannot help it. Just like an INTP cannot go about their life without using Ti and thinking about the situation or what stimuli they are exposed to.

An INTJ could use Se and admire something for what it was, in and of itself....but the INTJ must still add it to a compilation of data in their head (representation of the object) which is abstract or conceptual, so that they can produce intuitions that help make sense of the world on a grander scale.

Now this doesnt mean an INTJ is consciously thinking about a logical framework and how they are going to add a flower to it(if they were perceiving a flower for its beauty). Its more of an unconscious passive cognitive preference, which shines when you need it, but perceives the world in a manner that is often times silent(performance-wise).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
522 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Interesting retort.

Now if you were truly bent on figuring out how to accurately categorize yourself according to an archetypal model you would innately have to know that archetypes are unreachable standards as human are nothing more than fickle monkeys with the gift of consciousness whereas archetypes are rigid theoretical models.

Now the second inference is that if you're doubting your own results from what I'm assuming to be an online test where only you could be the source of bias. What makes you think that other people can accurately assess what you are via the medium of qualitative description?

Writing qualitatively innately induces bias; interpreting qualitative writing adds another layer of bias. Now assuming that the online test has an inaccuracy factor of "one" to account for self-bias. Then asking people for an accurate description of you via qualities would therefore have an inaccuracy factor of "two" to account for the bias from the writer and the reader.

Other people can't type you anymore accurately than you can type yourself, but I'm assuming that you're just looking to prove that you're not an INTJ if you're really asking a question along these lines.

If that's the case, feel free to disregard this post and best of luck with your "self analytical internal journey".
You can take your self rightness and awfully weak and poorly thought out attempt at sass somewhere else where people are easily impressed by your use of big word, commoner sarcasm and faux disregard for the human race. I have no wish to engage on any exchange with a person who just joined the forum and that with 15 posts under their belt decides to join my thread with no thought in mind except to try and undermine it.

And you were assuming wrong, there was no online personality test involved at all, just reading and interacting with other people. Only a fool would rust the results of an unofficial MBTI test.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
522 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Hmm, I suppose it could be worded like that. However simply finding something beautiful in and of itself wouldnt determine type, it would be more of a general preference to how you perceive the outside world overall.

For example, an INTJ must use Ni, because they cannot help it. Just like an INTP cannot go about their life without using Ti and thinking about the situation or what stimuli they are exposed to.

An INTJ could use Se and admire something for what it was, in and of itself....but the INTJ must still add it to a compilation of data in their head (representation of the object) which is abstract or conceptual, so that they can produce intuitions that help make sense of the world on a grander scale.

Now this doesnt mean an INTJ is consciously thinking about a logical framework and how they are going to add a flower to it(if they were perceiving a flower for its beauty). Its more of an unconscious passive cognitive preference, which shines when you need it, but perceives the world in a manner that is often times silent(performance-wise).
Yes, I understand it, I was interested in the Se filtering itself. I think I have been so bombarded with verbatim pertaining to Se being all about the action and excitement off living the right here right now that I haven't really considered how it could manifest itself in taste for particular types of more subjective thins like art. I feel like i makes us drawn to different types than say, Ni does. Food for thought.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
822 Posts
I went back and read your post again, this time I made sure I read it with a little more carefulness to make sure I understood it point for point.

While what you said can make sense in the state of someone letting their inferior functions take over, I dont know if that is what is happening, but it could be the case in some of the instances you mentioned. Although a lot of it is just normal for most humans irrespective of type.

A point im trying to make is that your enneagram type might produce an inner desire to seek out Se activities, but that doesnt necessarily mean it is your preferred mode of operating. For example, if I really like to dance, my mind would still process it through Ni->Te if I were able, but since it is predominantly Se, that is the cognitive function where my behavior or actions tend to gravitate, because my reality calls for the use of my Se. We could even say that I used a thinking function to determine it was the best way to proceed for the activity.

Also it could just be your secondary type coming out. I think we all have secondary types we act as to compensate for our preferred state. It could be INTJ is your secondary type or maybe its your primary type. Im not sure. We all have extroverted and introverted states we perceive the world in, the only factor that determines the E or I is which has dominance over the other.

EDIT: Sorry if it seems like im repeating anything, I think I just misunderstood what your concern is or was regarding typing and am trying to make sure I understand... or be helpful in some way hopefully.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
522 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I went back and read your post again, this time I made sure I read it with a little more carefulness to make sure I understood it point for point.

While what you said can make sense in the state of someone letting their inferior functions take over, I dont know if that is what is happening, but it could be the case in some of the instances you mentioned. Although a lot of it is just normal for most humans irrespective of type.

A point im trying to make is that your enneagram type might produce an inner desire to seek out Se activities, but that doesnt necessarily mean it is your preferred mode of operating. For example, if I really like to dance, my mind would still process it through Ni->Te if I were able, but since it is predominantly Se, that is the cognitive function where my behavior or actions tend to gravitate, because my reality calls for the use of my Se. We could even say that I used a thinking function to determine it was the best way to proceed for the activity.

Also it could just be your secondary type coming out. I think we all have secondary types we act as to compensate for our preferred state. It could be INTJ is your secondary type or maybe its your primary type. Im not sure. We all have extroverted and introverted states we perceive the world in, the only factor that determines the E or I is which has dominance over the other.

EDIT: Sorry if it seems like im repeating anything, I think I just misunderstood what your concern is or was regarding typing and am trying to make sure I understand... or be helpful in some way hopefully.
No, you're not repeating yourself at all. I've always know stereotypes about any MBTI type were meant to be ignored, so my concerns and doubts were never about not behaving as an INTJ, but rather about whether the discrepancies between what I experience internally and what an INTJ supposedly does were simply due to individuality or mistyping. As I've mentioned before I'm going through so many changes I sometimes feel like my "old self", the "me" I was very early on in life is kicking like crazy trying to come out of me, giving me whiplash and leaving me hella confused.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
822 Posts
No, you're not repeating yourself at all. I've always know stereotypes about any MBTI type were meant to be ignored, so my concerns and doubts were never about not behaving as an INTJ, but rather about whether the discrepancies between what I experience internally and what an INTJ supposedly does were simply due to individuality or mistyping. As I've mentioned before I'm going through so many changes I sometimes feel like my "old self", the "me" I was very early on in life is kicking like crazy trying to come out of me, giving me whiplash and leaving me hella confused.
Then I think we're on the same page, anything I tried to describe was merely done so that it could be tied to your experience and shown that there wasn't necessarily a discrepancy, at least that is what I was attempting to do. I think its not really a matter of a discrepancy, but a determination of whether this side of you is your preferred state....in other words if you're changing into a state you at one point repressed(your true nature) or if you're simply allowing that part of you to develop and grow.

There are a lot of inconsistencies in childhood and development, and while they can provide insight, they are times of uncertainty and growth. Most people are not the same people as they were when growing up. One factor for some people might be that they had more reason to develop other functions at an early age due to circumstance, and its not necessarily because that was their dominant function(or type). The answer might be in circumstances which led to a slight uneven distribution in ability despite preference. No one can really know or say.

I think you've shown no major sign of mistyping, no giant red flags are flying at me in other words....seems more like who you are individually as a person. The reason I say this is because everything you have done can be explained in an individualistic manner.

I would say it is probably too early to conclude anything, I feel like im constantly changing too, it produced a lot of curiosity in me, but one day I just had to stick with what I knew regarding myself and refrain from attempting to read too deep into my psyche. Its damn near impossible to get a solid read. In my opinion all of your posts indicate a strong (I) preference. In other words, it doesnt seem like there's much of a discrepancy if you revert to these strong introspective tendencies.

So for example, even if it seems like you might be basing your world off of Se...its technically all a result of a flow initiated from within which would be (I) Your starting point is inward and from there you see the external world. But thats just my take(opinion) on the matter.

Of course everyone starts with themselves, but not everyone has that "Meta" perspective about it.

I'm sure a lot of what I said you already know, but im hoping a general rule or point beyond it all will give you clarity.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
91 Posts
I can relate to nearly all of your post (except dancing, I am not good, but sports in general I am very coordinated and excelled at). I am certified INFJ (as opposed to online test taker!).

From my knowledge of INTJs, they are visual thinkers - they see systems in their head, but they are less visual with their surroundings. For example: An INTJ would care more about the function of most things, whereas as INFJ care more about the form. INTJs seem generally apathetic towards beauty and fashion whereas most INFJs require aesthetically pleasing environments to feel good (or at least, not stressed!).

The structured way your original post was laid out looks like a definite judging function at play - could be wrong, I am not very good with the functions, still learning, but the way I see perceivers post (generally) is less structured and less sequential.

Also, your post gives a good psychological basis and back story to why you have manifested the way you are. This isn't something I usually see INTJs do, this to me looks very INFJ.

And, to be totally unscientific, you give me the INFJ vibe.

I think people often think INFjs are cute little fluffy unicorn feely types, but I have found that many INFJs are very similar to INTJs in many aspects, including being aloof, intellectual, harsh at times, critical, good problem solvers, etc - except the obvious top down tangental thinking approach that INFJs employ as opposed to the bottom up linear thought process of INTJs.

I can see Fe in peoples eyes, I can't quite prove it, but I have noticed that INTJs tend to have cold steely eyes which don't emote much at all. INFJs and ENFJs on the other hand have a depth and expressiveness to their eyes (Enfjs more expressive than INFjs). Both INTJs and INFJs, however, have mouth and eye expressions that aren't in sync - this is why INTJs and INFjs can get a bit of a crazy look about them when they smile. I guess I would sum it up as saying that an INFJs eyes look present and engaged, whereas an INTJs eyes look disconnected and for lack of a better term 'dead'. I wonder if you could ask your friends how they view your eye expressiveness? This could help discern Fe or Fi.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,376 Posts
A few things that come to mind (half of which I blanked out on already):

- When we're kids, I think most of us act a bit differently. When we're young enough, we haven't yet developed that part of ourselves that says, "How am I doing?" And even if we have, if we're young enough and aren't being neglected to the point of dying, then there's a sort of assumed belief, "I will be taken care of no matter what I do." Which is VERY freeing. I mean, imagine being an adult and believing that.

If you've been through a lot of trauma and abuse, it might seem like sort of a strange thing to believe. And in certain survivalist circumstances, it's not true at all, unless you believe in a watchful deity.

So already, that's going to affect how we act as we grow older. We're going to tend more toward being afraid of rejection, ESPECIALLY if we don't have much of a "homebase" (people in our life who would never reject us, no matter what). So we're going to be more likely to take on "safe" roles that we believe will cause the least amount of rejection, while also getting us what we want out of life.

- Point number the second two: Words. I forgot what I was going to say. Maybe another go for point three?

- No matter how you act as an adult, there will be people who reject you and people who love you. Some of it in the same person. So if your goal is to be true to how you actually are, my recommended priority is that if you don't already have strong self-esteem for handling rejection, you try to figure it out / work on it. Reason I suggest this is... if you reach a point where you have that "homebase" in your life and rejection is not a big deal to you, then theoretically, your most "natural" self (regardless of what type it does or doesn't fit) should bloom on its own.

But as long as rejection is a big deal and/or you don't have that "homebase," you may find yourself endlessly poring over roles and personality, such as in MBTI, trying to figure out who you truly are. Which is an admirable pursuit in self-discovery and sometimes a fun one, but if your goal is more to do with "being true to you" than the mental exercise of talking theory and exploring who you are, you probably won't reach the true you (or at least won't "feel" that you have), as long as you don't have the foundation to embrace it. I say this as someone who has spent years on MBTI on and off (probably close to a decade) and despite being confident about my "type," I'm still a ways off from really feeling like I'm being true to myself with most people.

In other words, you could be anything from an INTJ to an ESTP, but if your search is powered primarily by attempting to find a role in which you won't feel "broken," "flawed," etc. (a search to reach a state where you won't be rejecting yourself). The search for the right type alone may not get you there.


Normally if someone asks what type they are/aren't and I say something I just focus on the typing alone, but I thought I saw a bit of myself in what you're going through and figured sharing some thoughts from my own experiences may help. It sounds like you have suffered a lot from being rejected as a person and that has taken its toll on you.

But, your mileage may vary, as the saying goes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HBIC

·
Registered
Joined
·
522 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I can relate to nearly all of your post (except dancing, I am not good, but sports in general I am very coordinated and excelled at). I am certified INFJ (as opposed to online test taker!).

From my knowledge of INTJs, they are visual thinkers - they see systems in their head, but they are less visual with their surroundings. For example: An INTJ would care more about the function of most things, whereas as INFJ care more about the form. INTJs seem generally apathetic towards beauty and fashion whereas most INFJs require aesthetically pleasing environments to feel good (or at least, not stressed!).
I would have to agree that in general that is the case based on INTJs testimonials I've been reading on this forum for years. I guess is yet another way in which I'm an exception, I'm highly sensitive to aesthetics, very fashion aware and beauty is of utmost importance to me. I can't survive in an environment where beauty isn't present, it makes me depressed, I'd have to at least be able to customize it to fit my minimal standards :dejection:

The structured way your original post was laid out looks like a definite judging function at play - could be wrong, I am not very good with the functions, still learning, but the way I see perceivers post (generally) is less structured and less sequential.

Also, your post gives a good psychological basis and back story to why you have manifested the way you are. This isn't something I usually see INTJs do, this to me looks very INFJ.

And, to be totally unscientific, you give me the INFJ vibe.
I don't see how I could be one, seeing as Fe is by a long shot, my weakest and least used function. At least based on the cognitive function tests I took online it always punctuates last. Then again, most of us agree that online tests are definitely not very reliable. But I'll be honest and say it's been a very long time since I've read Jung Psychological Types and that I never really got the concept of Fe. It's absolutely possible I have an inaccurate or incomplete understanding of what it is and does. I wouldn't want to impose, but I'd appreciate if you could point out specific signs of Fe you've found in my posts.

I have a bad record with Fe users in general, with the exception of ENFJs, whom for some reason I've always clicked really well. Have a really hard time with empathy as well.


I think people often think INFjs are cute little fluffy unicorn feely types, but I have found that many INFJs are very similar to INTJs in many aspects, including being aloof, intellectual, harsh at times, critical, good problem solvers, etc - except the obvious top down tangental thinking approach that INFJs employ as opposed to the bottom up linear thought process of INTJs.

I can see Fe in peoples eyes, I can't quite prove it, but I have noticed that INTJs tend to have cold steely eyes which don't emote much at all. INFJs and ENFJs on the other hand have a depth and expressiveness to their eyes (Enfjs more expressive than INFjs). Both INTJs and INFJs, however, have mouth and eye expressions that aren't in sync - this is why INTJs and INFjs can get a bit of a crazy look about them when they smile. I guess I would sum it up as saying that an INFJs eyes look present and engaged, whereas an INTJs eyes look disconnected and for lack of a better term 'dead'. I wonder if you could ask your friends how they view your eye expressiveness? This could help discern Fe or Fi.
"Dead eyes" would be the opposite of how people have always described me. I can be sure because throughout my life, even people I've just met have commented on them. According to them their very intense and focused, I can't tell you how many times I've been "accused", for lack of a better term, of "piercing" someone with my eyes or giving people (and things!) a death glare. I got asked things like "What did that chair do to you?" many times, so I guess I just stare at lot without realizing it. But this is when I'm in my "serious" mode, deep thinking about something or involved in a discussion.

When I'm relaxed or discussing a topic I'm passionate about I've been told they turn very bright, big and I heard I have "anime stars" in them once. Apparently my voice also gets really high pitched and I turn "giddy and a complete different person". I've heard it so much through the years that I can remember the exact words people use to describe me. It's actually weird because except for feeling really excited I don't notice any of these changes :Smilies1:

I know Socionics has visual typing, do you personally believe in its accuracy?
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top