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Ambition & Purpose - do you choose your deeper ambitions, or do they 'choose you' ?

I had a discussion recently and this came up:


I'm not so much talking about minor plans, I'm talking more about more dominant drives or life themes, purposes, senses of destiny.


Are they something "you always knew"? Or do they just spring up? Is it a process of whittling away what you want, or is it a matter of things passing the test, and becoming worthy?

Once you establish them, do the change? Or do you find them unchanging; such that you are ready to pursue them or bend reality to fit what you want?


..... this comes after a curious sense of being unable to 'avoid' certain drives, or wants, or visions. I'm unfamiliar with this feeling. Their lack of transience is curious, and maybe even somewhat comforting, surprisingly. But I wonder if that's 'how it ought to be', and I just haven't been there yet. I don't suppose anyone can answer that but me, but, I figured I'd see what others might think or feel.
 

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This is actually about Fi. Read Covey, 7 habits.

I am not reactive, but pro-active. I choose to be in a certain area.
 

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profession: always knew. changed specialization based on life cirumstances and availability. didn't like it, but hope the end result will be what I'd like. If not, plan B.
 

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Of course things change. At 17 I wanted to be dead at 40 after having achieved everything in life. At 32 I'd rather die at the expected age of 64 and I still have a bit to go to complete my achievements.
I will achieve them, certain circumstances delayed a few things but on the right track.
 

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Not trying to be pedantic, but the title of this thread really poses a lot of logical problems. How would the subsidiary subject of oneself choose oneself? My ambition chooses me?

You don't have to actually answer that. I just had a minor aneurysm that made my eyebrow twitch when I read that.

To answer, I tend to gravitate towards what peeks my interest and manipulate the environment to suit me, or conform to situations that are aligned with my desires. I can't logically understand going with the flow as being ambitious as you aren't executing actions to fulfil your ambitions or goals. A goal does not choose you (or it simply wouldn't be a goal or ambition as there is no target). They can change as your needs and wants change sure.

Ambitions and purpose are conflicting subjects that are hard to really blanket together with one answer as if they were the same thing. Maybe defining them would help?

It's like confusing strategy with tactic: What differentiates the two is which objective doesn't change, and which objective changes to fulfill the other. Like the strategy, your purpose doesn't change, but the ambition to fulfill your purpose does like a tactic. Of course this is a loose way of looking at it, but that is how I view it. Your ambitions, or the objects of your ambitions aren't a permanent feature (I would hope not, but hey, some people are into plateauing).
 

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A good plan is both rigid and flexible. Just like a well-put together body of law.

Meaning... Set goal. Work towards. Seem futile/worthless/pointless/not what I want anymore? No? Continue. Yes? New goal.

Do I choose what I like or want? I think that is impossible by any means and an irrational statement. I don't find it to have meaning in any practical sense, unless of course you can enlighten me.
 

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Aside from the amibition/purpose; stategy/tactics problems mentioned above, this part made my head hurt, too:

Are they something "you always knew"? Or do they just spring up? Is it a process of whittling away what you want, or is it a matter of things passing the test, and becoming worthy?
Not really sure what "they" is here, but I'll play along:
Always knew? Knew what? Like when I was five years old I knew I wanted to be a lawyer?
Maybe, but I wouldn't have been able to define that.
Or "just spring up?" That doesn't happen in a vaccum. Something has to spark it.

In terms of what gets me to the ultimate ambition - where does my future lie? is like asking: "How does your Ni work? I can define for you how Ni works in general, but I can't flow chart for you how I got there. I'm not aware of it happening, I'm just aware of the "aha" moment when I know what the answer is. The direction I want to move toward.

Once that thought hits, I know where I'm going with absolute confidence, but I can't tell you how I figured that out (the thought process). I can only go back after the fact and tell you why that conclusion makes sense to me.

That's figuring out the goal, though, the drive to get there is innate. Where does that come from? Dunno. If you could bottle it, ...
 

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My plan is not to have a plan :)
So let me get this straight. The ENTJs dominant function of extroverted thinking, which is essentially the drive to plan, assess, order, and quantify, is not your dominant function?

Furthermore, you haven't had the revelation that perhaps if your dominant function is not matching up to the supposed dominant function of the type, there is no need to further assess the situation? The discrepancy doesn't scream anything to you? Which in itself, is a parody of the situation by being evidence that something is amiss and your inability to see, acknowledge, or act upon it.
 

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To answer the OP, my ambition and purpose is not a specific, but a calling to exceed, surpass limitations, and live up to (or surpass) potential. A calling to greatness.

That's the motivation. Not the destination. The destination and the map to get there is grounded in reality with expectations that are achievable. Greatness is not tangible. It's an internal thing, subjective, relative, etc. it's not obtainable. It's realized.

X2 on the suggestion it's a type 3 thing.
 

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So let me get this straight. The ENTJs dominant function of extroverted thinking, which is essentially the drive to plan, assess, order, and quantify, is not your dominant function?

Furthermore, you haven't had the revelation that perhaps if your dominant function is not matching up to the supposed dominant function of the type, there is no need to further assess the situation? The discrepancy doesn't scream anything to you? Which in itself, is a parody of the situation by being evidence that something is amiss and your inability to see, acknowledge, or act upon it.
I'm planning not to have a plan. It a paradox! I got that when I was travelling.

But having said that, I still plan unconsciously in my time, things happen in sequence and timely fashion... I don't really see myself having it do it deliberately...
 

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I'm planning not to have a plan. It a paradox! I got that when I was travelling.

But having said that, I still plan unconsciously in my time, things happen in sequence and timely fashion... I don't really see myself having it do it deliberately...
That still doesn't make sense and isn't practical usage of words. It is just a play on them. By saying you plan to have no plan, you are saying you have no plan. It is not planning if there is no actual plan. No plan does not equal planning to have no plan.

Although the second part is the opposite says you do plan. So now what you are saying is even more confusing and conflicting.
 

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That still doesn't make sense and isn't practical usage of words. It is just a play on them. By saying you plan to have no plan, you are saying you have no plan. It is not planning if there is no actual plan. No plan does not equal planning to have no plan.

Although the second part is the opposite says you do plan. So now what you are saying is even more confusing and conflicting.
Don't bother going down the rabbit hole. He's in denial. He is PROUD to be on welfare. He has no plans, ambitions etc, says he does not know where he sees himself in the future, doesn't care. Doesn't even care to control his own finances and so on. Wants to backpack. Thinks that because somebody else pays his bills that he isn't motivated by money. Doesn't get the concept of out of sight out of mind, yet lives blindly by it.

While this may look like a character attack (admittedly I dislike his character), this is paraphrasing what he himself has plainly stated, and pretty well in complete opposition extroverted thinking, planning, controlling characteristics (let's be real here).

We aren't exactly wondering aimless people without a plan or care in the world.
 
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