Personality Cafe banner
1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,059 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
The Judging Functions

Jung calls the judging functions the "rational" functions. He calls them "rational" because they are the functions we use to construct arguments.

Before I begin, I would like to say that none of the functions exist in a vacuum. All of the functions exist within all of us and are accessible to all of us. It is a matter of individual preference.

There are two kinds of arguments available to the human psyche: thinking and feeling.

Feeling in this context refers to the arguments constructed around human emotion of which there are two directions: extroverted and introverted.

Extroverted Feeling
Extroverted Feeling (Fe) is the function that assesses the mood of a room, feels what other people feel, watches a film, identifies with the central character, and wants that character to succeed. Fe is the empathy function. Fe is the function that constructs arguments based on how others are feeling and generally seeks to connect with other people's struggles, joys, triumphs, and/or failures. Fe is the function that connects one person to another.

Fe primaries exemplify warmth and emotional understanding. Fe primaries generally use their warmth to generate warm and loving social environments. For this reason Fe primaries often make compassionate and considerate bosses, friends, parents, etc.

Common enneagram types: 2, 6,
also: 4, 3, 9, 1

Introverted Feeling
Introverted Feeling (Fi) is the function that assesses one's personal emotional and ethical data. These arguments are framed around the central questions:
Who do I want to be? Who am I? What do I like? What do I want to do?
Are my actions consistent with what I believe to be good?
Am I behaving in a way that I believe to be good? What are the emotional implications of that statement? What does that mean to me? Would this make me happy in the long run?

The Fi function absorbs emotional data from world around and creates a framework of how the actions affect the above questions. Because Fi is introverted, it is less directly visible than Fe. The kindness and warmth of the Fi is demonstrated more indirectly through enthusiasm and compassionate understanding than through direct connection of Fe. Because of the complexity of Fi's inner emotional framework, Fi users are among those with gifts for aesthetics and social subtlety.

Common enneagram types: 4, 7, 9
also: 2, 3, 6

Thinking in this context refers to the arguments constructed around human logic of which there are two directions: extroverted and introverted.

Extroverted Thinking
Extroverted Thinking (Te) checks for logical consistency and efficiency in the external world. Te is a function which seeks to structure information and the world in such a way that the argument is agreed to by societal standards. Just like Fe assesses the mood of a room, Te assesses the room in terms of: the arguments being made, the order and structure of the room, and the acceptability of the arguments being made in the room. Te looks for efficiency, order, proof (did you back up your claims?). Te is the realm of standard operating procedures, guidelines, and accepted schools of thought. Te likes to make big theories that encompass methods of organizing and sorting the external world. Te likes to keep track of data and facts.

For this reason, Te primaries are among those who are gifted in the art of scheduling, fact keeping, timeliness, efficiency, order, and structure. Thus, making them gifted teachers, engineers, bureaucrats, soldiers, generals, CEOs, business people, etc.

Common enneagram types: 1, 3, 6, 8
also: 5

Introverted Thinking
Introverted Thinking (Ti) while Te is the method of structuring the external world, Ti is primarily concerned with structuring the internal world. Ti users are not nearly as concerned with the structure and order of the room at large. Rather, the structure, consistency, and logic of the external world is taken in by Ti where it is broken down into pieces and folded into the internal framework of how the external world works which allows Ti users to recall the information quickly when needed. Ti boils arguments, information, and facts down to their most simplified form. Ti users typically have a more difficult time proving how and where they arrived at their conclusions as they are incorporating all the fact data they have boiled down to arrive there. Ti is individual logic rather than societal logic. Ti doesn't concern itself with standard operating procedures and prefers to do and say what makes logical sense to the Ti user.

Ti users have been among some of the most renowned and insightful theorists, writers, and scientists.

Common enneagram types: 5, 3, 8
also: 6, 7
 

·
Rebel without a cause
Joined
·
2,725 Posts
I personally use the template "How would I feel if ___" on as much as possible, yes, I've even done it on inanimate objects. If my action makes someone feel something that I wouldn't like to feel, I apply the same template again atop of that to correct whatever wasn't working. Though I suspect that NFPs more actively reevaluate their Fi-templates where as SFPs more often prefer to reevaluate their Fi-framework once it actually becomes a potential problem.

I use the template because I automatically assume that the most important feelings of an individual is below the surface -- which actually do speak in favor for why NFPs and SFPs generally are considered to have a natural affinity for understanding people.

The Fi function sucks in emotional data of the world around it
I posted this because I misread this part and got a negative association with "sucks", so I'm suggesting "absorbs" as a better verb in this context.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,022 Posts
The Judging Functions

Jung calls the judging functions the "rational" functions. He calls them "rational" because they are the functions we use to construct arguments.

Before I begin, I would like to say that none of the functions exist in a vacuum. All of the functions exist within all of us and are accessible to all of us. It is a matter of individual preference.
Before you began, you did two things that I greatly appreciate: 1, you divulged how on earth the feeling functions can be considered "rational," and 2, I completely agree that everybody can use all eight cognitive functions, and that, just as we have preferences in type, we have preferences for function use/order. I can't help but laugh at those that say "theory states you only use four functions, so you use four functions." Misguided Ti, probably Ti-Si loop is responsible, IMHO.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,022 Posts
How do I use Ne instead of Se? I'd like to be Ne for a day just to see how it is.
Same way I use Si to learn from mistakes. Pretty much anything you do that could be considered ex nihilo creativity is using Ne. You can't be "Ne dom for a day," but when you have to, you use it. It comes down to a preference, it's as simple as that. I'd like to use Se more often to increase my practical intelligence/observancy, but it's not really one of those things I can just will myself to do.
 
  • Like
Reactions: marzipan01

·
Rebel without a cause
Joined
·
2,725 Posts
Same way I use Si to learn from mistakes. Pretty much anything you do that could be considered ex nihilo creativity is using Ne. You can't be "Ne dom for a day," but when you have to, you use it. It comes down to a preference, it's as simple as that. I'd like to use Se more often to increase my practical intelligence/observancy, but it's not really one of those things I can just will myself to do.
I use Fi to learn from mistakes. So what you're saying is that SP artists use Ne alot...?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,022 Posts
Not all mistakes are done WRT interpersonal relations/morals :)

Maybe not alot, but probably a bit more often than MBTI theory would suggest. It would still be a shadow function. Just like I use Fe and Ti at times, but predominantly use Fi and Te day to day.
 
  • Like
Reactions: marzipan01

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,843 Posts
Extroverted Feeling
Extroverted Feeling (Fe) is the function that assesses the mood of a room, feels what other people feel, watches a film, identifies with the central character, and wants that character to succeed. Fe is the empathy function. Fe is the function that constructs arguments based on how others are feeling, how actions might make others feel, and generally seeks to connect with other people's struggles, joys, triumphs, and/or failures. Fe is the function that connects one person to another.

Fe primaries exemplify warmth and emotional understanding. Fe primaries generally use their warmth to generate warm and loving social environments. Fe primaries are among those gifted in keeping track of their loved ones' emotional data (so and so likes this, or Shelly has band practice on Thursday, etc.) For this reason Fe primaries often make gifted coordinators, and organizers of people. Compassionate and considerate bosses, friends, parents, etc.
The bolded parts are more FeNi --- and underlined parts are more FeSi.

Keeping track of emotional, or any data related to another person really is actually pretty hard for FeNi ... and it's just as hard for FeSi to predict how actions will make others feel until and unless they've been in a similar situation, or have experienced a similar situation. FeSi individuals can get better or worse at this as this grow older, but FeNi individuals are inherently highly apt at predicting.

The problem area for FeNi is trusting intuition, and therefore not relying on it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,059 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I posted this because I misread this part and got a negative association with "sucks", so I'm suggesting "absorbs" as a better verb in this context.
I imagine introverted functions as black holes so that was where I derived the word "sucks" (as in "sucked into the vortex" or "sucked into the Fi vacuum") but I fixed it. I came to this perception of the introverted functions while reading Hobbes whose primary function is Ti and I felt as if the words formed whirl pools that were sucking me into every sentence on the page as I read. I assume that if you had issues with it, other Fi users might be offended by it as well. So, thank you. :)

How do I use Ne instead of Se? I'd like to be Ne for a day just to see how it is.
My next thread is going to be about perceiving functions. I'm hoping that this question will be satisfied there some time later tonight.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,059 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
The bolded parts are more FeNi --- and underlined parts are more FeSi.

Keeping track of emotional, or any data related to another person really is actually pretty hard for FeNi ... and it's just as hard for FeSi to predict how actions will make others feel until and unless they've been in a similar situation, or have experienced a similar situation. FeSi individuals can get better or worse at this as this grow older, but FeNi individuals are inherently highly apt at predicting.

The problem area for FeNi is trusting intuition, and therefore not relying on it.
I'm trying to get these functions isolated and in a vacuum state. Then, I'm going to try to put them back together. Hahahah. I'm such an ENTP.

Point is, I corrected it. Thank you for the heads up. It's rawther difficult to isolate these functions on account of the fact that none of them truly exist in isolation.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,008 Posts
Good thread.
 
  • Like
Reactions: marzipan01

·
Rebel without a cause
Joined
·
2,725 Posts
Not all mistakes are done WRT interpersonal relations/morals :)

Maybe not alot, but probably a bit more often than MBTI theory would suggest. It would still be a shadow function. Just like I use Fe and Ti at times, but predominantly use Fi and Te day to day.
No, but at the same time it was even described by Jung, that the Introvert Feeler can't so to speak "think" of something that doesn't involve feeling for the subject. So I'm much more inclined for the 4-Function theory with instead. You're writing that everyone has all the functions, but I haven't yet seen anything to support that.

I imagine introverted functions as black holes so that was where I derived the word "sucks" (as in "sucked into the vortex" or "sucked into the Fi vacuum") but I fixed it. I came to this perception of the introverted functions while reading Hobbes whose primary function is Ti and I felt as if the words formed whirl pools that were sucking me into every sentence on the page as I read. I assume that if you had issues with it, other Fi users might be offended by it as well. So, thank you. :)
That's a good metaphor I think for both Fi & Ti. It wasn't offensive, I just read it wrong once my Fi became active. :tongue:

And personally I think your Enneagram correlations possibly will cause more confusion.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,059 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
And personally I think your Enneagram correlations possibly will cause more confusion.
I added enneagram correlations because I've seen a general trend where people of certain enneagram types and tritypes have an overdeveloped function for their MBTI type. For example, ENTPs who are type 6 and have strong Fe. Also, I think it's far easier to say that the judging functions are more "motivated" as it is the judging functions that make assessments about what is good what is not good, what is true, what is untrue, etc. Confusing as it might seem now, I hope it makes more sense later.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,008 Posts
I added enneagram correlations because I've seen a general trend where people of certain enneagram types and tritypes have an overdeveloped function for their MBTI type. For example, ENTPs who are type 6 and have strong Fe. Also, I think it's far easier to say that the judging functions are more "motivated" as it is the judging functions that make assessments about what is good what is not good, what is true, what is untrue, etc. Confusing as it might seem now, I hope it makes more sense later.
Like myself for example
 
  • Like
Reactions: marzipan01

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,059 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
lol, and you're sure I don't use Fi?
Putting all this together with the associated enneagram types and the reasoning behind it has led me to question my initial possible explanation for strong feeling function being more cultivated in ENTPs who are type 6.

If you read my description of Fi and it felt like it stuck out more to you than Fe, then perhaps you use Fi more than Fe. Only you can say for yourself what functions you use.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,059 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I use Fi to learn from mistakes. So what you're saying is that SP artists use Ne alot...?
ISFP's use Se-Fi-Ni to create art.

There seems to be an envy for other functions in your posts. Perhaps this is your type 4 motive--not wanting to be missing something. I know this feeling very well.

Let me just say something here because I'm not sure it was adequately answered anywhere else.

Se-Ni shows you what is here and now and where this detail is going in the future.
You are not missing anything. All you have to do in order to capitalize on your talents is to focus on building with the blocks you've already got. Look around you, see what you like, what fascinates you, what is beautiful, what you feel, how you feel about it and build on that.

To practice intuition all you've got to do is look at something around you: a pen, a piece of paper, a glass of water, a lamp...
consider all the possibilities of each.

How are they similar?
How are they different?
What is their origin? (How did they become what they are? How did they get to the place where they are now?)
How could they be used?
What would it feel like to be the item in question?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
520 Posts
Same way I use Si to learn from mistakes. Pretty much anything you do that could be considered ex nihilo creativity is using Ne. You can't be "Ne dom for a day," but when you have to, you use it. It comes down to a preference, it's as simple as that. I'd like to use Se more often to increase my practical intelligence/observancy, but it's not really one of those things I can just will myself to do.
You can train yourself to use Se more via zen mediation. I'm guess there are other mental exercises you can do to make other functions more dominate. I derped around with zen mediation for about a month and found a noticeable difference in the sharpness of my visual and audible perception. It may have been training to deal with the boredom of forcing myself focus on said stimulus though.
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top