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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
This is my personal definition of Fe, which I want to share impressions and results. To start, let's define what Feeling itself is.

What is Feeling?

Feeling is a judging function which judges and makes decisions based on a desire of harmony between the Fe user, the beings that live there and the location. To feel that the environment is well taken, understanding and respecting all personal wishes and other's wishes is very important for a Feeler.

Because of this need of harmony, Feelers like to identify and follow a chosen set of values, principles, codes of conduct and rules and guide the Fe user to an appropiate behavior in the determined situation, so it enables harmony. This does not mean that a Feeler agrees and submissively everything that it is imposed to them as appropiate or good for establishing harmony. Feelers will consider and evaluate it. A Feeler can be very confrontational and opposing as well as fight people, groups and situations because it will not help to establish the desired harmonious environment.

The nature of this function is very subjective, if we define subjectivity as something related to the subject. Feelers like to know people's POV and how it affects and it is affected by the environment. This can also include animals, plants, etc, how they are affected and how they affect the enviornment.

What is Extroverted Feeling?

Extroverted Feeling (Fe) has its origin in everything that happens outside the self, which are people, places, objects, systems, values, thoughts, actions, etc. Therefore Fe is the judging function that judges and takes decisions in base on an analysis of principles, values, systems, and thoughts that people and the Fe user hold on a determined environment.

Fe also considers the own Fe user's position, the effect they have on their locality and how locality affects them, which makes them measure how positive or negative would a determined action of the Fe user is as well as how to put personal interests (that vary greatly from person) in action with Fe.

Which things are important for someone who decides using Fe?
It varies greatly. Depends on the Fe user, their environment, background and upbringing. We can't stablish a general set of things that are important for a Fe user, because its subjective nature makes it hard to.

For example, a kid with dominant Fe was taught in his house to value efficiency, success, tough competition, an aggressive and strong approach. Selflessness and friendship were secondary, even inferior and despised to this Fe kid. When this kid has grown up, he would behave cruelly, unrespectfully and harshly in front of people who percieves them as weak, losers or not so strong-willed and the Fe user will impose them subtely and directly to be like the Fe user. These valued things, taught in childhood, are put into practice in their localities so it brings what it is thought as harmonious for a good social and environmental (not in an ecological sense this time) setting.

To be a dom/aux Fe does not mean to lack personal interests, wishes and personal POVs which are wanted to be follow by the Fe user and others. But it means that they will find the best way to stablish harmony in their environment and people, being the "best way" something that varies a lot from people.

However, there are three important things that a Fe user likes to consider when using Fe. These are explained in the most outached way as possible.

a) Social Roles
Fe users like to know everyone's social roles and how these affect a determined situation. For example, a Fe user may see a secretary to be very distinct from a boss, as they have different qualities, good and bad as well as different ambitions. They will find the best way (again, it varies greatly) to deal with them and stablish the desired link to relate to both of them.

b) Group Affinity
In every situation, a Fe user will find how a person or social group works, what they support and stand against, and accordingly to the Fe user's judgement, will seek afiliation to them, to their values, thoughts and activites. Maybe this is why Fe doms are thought to be very gregarious and sociable individuals. Fe users can very well fight and stand against other people and groups which don't support what the Fe user support.

c) Social gestures/graces and communication
Courtesy, prudence, humor, thankfulness or sensitivity can be perceived as important to a Fe user because it makes easier to stablish an understanding of a person's personal situations and how they are affected. Unthankfulness, rudeness, coldness, disagreeableness and lack of respect can also be taken into account by a Fe user because it helps to make clear the unapproval of a person, situation, etc. It also helps to respond to said and unsaid needs as well to make them know our agreement or disagreement.

Some traits associated with Fe and my explanation of them.

a) Emotional sensitivity
Although it looks like, Fe does not guarantee a developed emotional senstivity or a deeper connection with your feelings. It is however associated because of the subjective nature of this function, which seeks an understanding of people, personal data and the environment. You can be an unsensitive and utilitarian manipulator who uses Fe to follow your selfish interests establishing harmonious environments which misguide people.

b) Empathy
Empathy is the capacity to recognize other's emotional states and the circumstances that provoke it. A Fe user is not necesarilly empathetic, because emotional states aren't necessarily the main factor for making decisions, they may have other criteria like usefulness or integrity on other people. But Fe can help to develop empathy, because the social interaction that accompanies Fe can train you into recognizing emotional states.

c) Compassion
Compassion is the emotional state that arises from another being's suffering, and motivate us to help them to overcome the things that causes suffering to the other being. Compassion can also be taught through Fe, for the same reasons mentioned with empathy, but it's not a guaranteed trait.
 

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Thanks! I also wish to point out an older thread about "Fe:, Disappointment and hurt" or similar. You should look it up. I think that thread accurately shows how Fe users can get hurt hen their efforts towards other persons are not returned. Fe should at least give the user an INTEREST in other peoples feelings. Fi on the other hand, does not. So I would say that Fi doms can be the worst when it comes to empathy/compassion. And Fe can seem fake beacuase they "mimic" other peoples feelings to gain harmony. But this is not intentional; instead the Fe user simply cares much more about other peoples feelings and interactions than he does his own, inner feelings. It still is honest and true... because Fe users might not know themselves in the way other people know thier own feelings.

Well... as an ENTP perhaps I should shut up on the subject of feelings, but I really do have LOADS of Fe. I just dont let it cloud my rational judgement even if it breaks my heart doing so....
 

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I just wanted to point out that whenever you write "This is important to the Fe user" you make it sound like all Fe user -have- to -value- it. Some of us Fe users (E.g., Fe auxiliary or inferior) can't f'in stand this function of ours, and some of us might even use it in ways most people find unacceptable (E.g., Fe auxiliary or tertiary). This is what some people would like to call "unhealthy Fe" but in my opinion should be called "enlightened Fe."

This is overall a well thought out and detailed article on Fe though. Good work.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks! I also wish to point out an older thread about "Fe:, Disappointment and hurt" or similar. You should look it up. I think that thread accurately shows how Fe users can get hurt hen their efforts towards other persons are not returned. Fe should at least give the user an INTEREST in other peoples feelings. Fi on the other hand, does not. So I would say that Fi doms can be the worst when it comes to empathy/compassion. And Fe can seem fake beacuase they "mimic" other peoples feelings to gain harmony. But this is not intentional; instead the Fe user simply cares much more about other peoples feelings and interactions than he does his own, inner feelings. It still is honest and true... because Fe users might not know themselves in the way other people know thier own feelings.

Well... as an ENTP perhaps I should shut up on the subject of feelings, but I really do have LOADS of Fe. I just dont let it cloud my rational judgement even if it breaks my heart doing so....
Good you try to understand more, but there's some thing that need correction! Feeling does not mean to take care of others' feelings. As I wrote they may have much more things to measure and decide than just feelings. But they will yearn to seek understanding and its practice can develop empathy and compassion, not it's not that exact.

And Fi isn't naturally less emphatetic or caring to others. Fi users yearn for harmony as Fe users, but the basis that guide them (values, principles, etc) does not come from the outside world, but from their own inside appreciations and judgements. They may value a lot of things, and if being caring, loving, etc is part of their own inner designed code of conduct, then they will apply it in the outside world. Also, Fi users generally recognize that others have such POVs that are radically different than their own. Why? Because Fi users know that what they think it's true or worth believing is not necessarily the same of others'. They may be more tolerant and understanding to a certain extent of others' POV and attitudes.

If you want more understanding on Fi, read this!
1) http://personalitycafe.com/infp-forum-idealists/49644-introverted-feeling-how-do-you-define.html
2) http://personalitycafe.com/isfp-forum-artists/49645-introverted-feeling-how-do-you-define.html

I just wanted to point out that whenever you write "This is important to the Fe user" you make it sound like all Fe user -have- to -value- it. Some of us Fe users (E.g., Fe auxiliary or inferior) can't f'in stand this function of ours, and some of us might even use it in ways most people find unacceptable (E.g., Fe auxiliary or tertiary). This is what some people would like to call "unhealthy Fe" but in my opinion should be called "enlightened Fe."

This is overall a well thought out and detailed article on Fe though. Good work.
That dislike of Fe is possibly the dominant perceiving function clashing with the decisions and judgements made by the aux/ter Fe. The Perceiving dom function makes you build up a perception of all the data present, but the judgement and decision you want to do with doesn't agree with what is perceived, and you may don't know what to do to preserve harmony. It also can be that this more aware perception helps you to uncover hidden truths, information, etc that makes you take decisions that seem unaccordingly, but correct to your standards as it helps to build a good place in your own eyes. Fe helps to make decisions this time, but doesn't dominate your perception of things, in the case of ESFJs or ENFJs.

What about Ti or Se in your case? Do they make you dislike the aux Fe?
 

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Fe is extroverted feeling, seeking harmony in the group. I don't think a Fe user seeks to actually be part of that harmony, without the help of an introverted function.
 

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To gain harmony within a group, you must first understand the other persons in it. That is theoretically a big difference between Fe and Fi (who doesnt necessarily need interest in other peoples motivations and POV). Just a theory... from one of the cold, heartless thinkers....:)
 

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Its almost your robot birthday.

Placing value on the group and understanding the group is different though. Placing value (because it has worked for you in the past more when you were developing your functions based on trial and error/ pain/ pleasure/ genetic predispositions etc, environment etc), comes first, and understanding the group is kind of a subset technique, of placing value, just like actually using the function is a subset of placing value in it (not including motor reflexes, only talking about actions involving complex thought), which is why tests can be completely wrong.

also

T looks at people without feelings, F looks at people with feelings, because empathy (being aware of pain and relating to others) can be measured with feelings.

The only problem with that explanation comes when you start being in love with rocks, having intimate relationships with things that arent people. This is probably why people picture a person when thinking of God.

Taoists @Crow would probably not like the measure of F to be feeling, because if someone has an intimate connection with the world in general, then the measurement of the world (still using Fe here), would not be feeling.

Not that we couldn't, but then we would be applying personification to what is not people.

However, when we are talking about people, it is easy to use feeling as the measure.

Or emotion more so. Emotion measures based on intensity our thoughts. If someone doesn't experience a lot of emotion, or feeling, that to me simply means they aren't "attached" to things as much, or, that the thing they are attached to is very consistent in its providing.

F could also not feel feeling if they are barely aware of details or thoughts in the first place.

What I mean is, just because someone has a function preference, doesnt mean they use it.

Many forms of meditation don't use any while meditating. They "base" their awareness.

sorry for the sidetrack. I realize this is away from the OP.
 

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What about Ti or Se in your case? Do they make you dislike the aux Fe?
When I preference Ti and Se in a social setting I come off as aggressive, bold, even rude. Particularly if I drink alcohol, which is one of the reasons why I don't drink alcohol that much (Perhaps once or twice a year). I'm that type of person who is more comfortable sitting in the background, listening in (Or try to listen in anyway. It's not always easy, because I snap in and out of dream-like states constantly), and then pull a quick one on the group, a witty comment, built on something somebody else have said, to get a reaction out of people. I do this particularly when I am uncertain of the people in the group. If I have one of my best friends there, and I've been with 'almost all' of these people in the group once before, I may preference Ti and Se completely, which some of them seem to find extremely hilarious (A standup comedian at his best, right?). As much as I like being "myself" that way, I still don't like it, because when I do it-- it feels like an out of body experience, where I'm unable to control myself. And it is so easy to get a mental kick to the nuts from someone who think I've gone too far (According to their ethical standards).

I really, do not like people, at all. If I could just stay indoors all day and not talk to anyone, I would be the happiest man on earth. With people, it feels like I have a responbility; to get along with them, to make them like me, to play according to their rules on what is appropriate behavior. God, it's draining. I always have to remember not to act too much of myself, or act too little. I have to smile in order to come off as approachable to people. And I have to "come up" with things to talk about. Wtf, "So what you been doing lately?" "How's the weather?" It is so cheesy, and I don't really care.

However, I will manipulate the shit out of a municipal service system if I need something from them, by pulling off Fe, because at a lot of these places you get to talk with the paper-pushers face to face. I got the state to pay for my dental bills just by pulling off an "I am a young hurt soul"- face/attitude. Sure, in one way I am one, but I don't walk around with my shoulders hanging like that. So that shows how I -can- use Fe to my advantage, instead of being a total push-over/doormat.

I personally think Fe is a fucking masochist to be honest.

But a lot of this comes from the fact that I don't have a family, or in other words, I don't consider myself having one. A lot of that social / family value b.s. has been thrown out the window. I don't care for it. I never did care for it, or them. I've never felt loved by anyone, nor have I ever felt love towards anyone. That's how crude auxiliary Fe can be when it is stripped down naked. In the end, all I really care for is my Pi and Ji and keep to myself.
 

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Thanks! I also wish to point out an older thread about "Fe:, Disappointment and hurt" or similar. You should look it up. I think that thread accurately shows how Fe users can get hurt hen their efforts towards other persons are not returned. Fe should at least give the user an INTEREST in other peoples feelings. Fi on the other hand, does not. So I would say that Fi doms can be the worst when it comes to empathy/compassion. And Fe can seem fake beacuase they "mimic" other peoples feelings to gain harmony. But this is not intentional; instead the Fe user simply cares much more about other peoples feelings and interactions than he does his own, inner feelings. It still is honest and true... because Fe users might not know themselves in the way other people know thier own feelings.
To gain harmony within a group, you must first understand the other persons in it. That is theoretically a big difference between Fe and Fi (who doesnt necessarily need interest in other peoples motivations and POV). Just a theory... from one of the cold, heartless thinkers....:)
I think it devalues functions to talk about selfishness and selflessness. Especially in a thread about Fe. We can understand Fe without needing to make a comparison to a less appealing Fi. Fi does have interest in other peoples feelings, and as Erictb has said numerous times, generally dominant functions are more -mature- in the conscious. Dominant Fi does not automatically equate to lessened empathy and compassion. And that is a misunderstanding of Fi that Carl Jung mentions in psychological types. And to say that Fi types don't have interest in other peoples motivations and point of view, that is not very true either. Fi is a function commonly associated with desiring to understand another individual on a very deep level.

"Feeling does not mean to take care of others' feelings" Thank you jdmn!!! and thanks for the article. I like how you articulate that functions don't necessarily result in particular personality traits. It's interesting for me to understand Fe; in some ways as an Fi dom I have similar goals, but they come from a different place.
 

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Fascinating article.
 
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It's often said that Fe seeks for harmony in a group or at least a harmonious way of solving conflict. Did one ever think about the possibility that Fe could be aswell be about control ? As in controlling the group to know what one has to expect from others so his or her own feelings couldnt get hurt because he'd be prepared ?!
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
It all depends on the Fe user. But in a way, stablishing a harmonious environment is a form of control, based on standards and procedures that are valued and considered important. It greatly involves people, too, so Fe can also me put into practice with leadership and management, which involve control. About hurt feelings, I wouldn't see it as the top reason, since Fe users, and feelers in general, aren't all ultra sensitive or recurring to their emotions, that is a misconception easy to fall. But, yeah it can be true that a feeler wants to avoid hurt feelings. It all depends.
 

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It all depends on the Fe user. But in a way, stablishing a harmonious environment is a form of control, based on standards and procedures that are valued and considered important. It greatly involves people, too, so Fe can also me put into practice with leadership and management, which involve control. About hurt feelings, I wouldn't see it as the top reason, since Fe users, and feelers in general, aren't all ultra sensitive or recurring to their emotions, that is a misconception easy to fall. But, yeah it can be true that a feeler wants to avoid hurt feelings. It all depends.
I see.

Well as an Fe user I cant really say I am less sensitive about getting my feelings hurt than others and I'd think of that assumption in comparison to the Fi way of dealing with things as too superficial and wrong. We had over on typologycentral the discussion about people being emotionally manipulative and the INFJ always tended to win with ENTP on place 2nd. I have never really seen someone proving this, but I still found it intresting that people tend to assume that of the two types. I am more believing that the person an extroverted Feeling user manipulates the most is he himself, by being to controlling of ones own emotions and sometimes not letting that out what should be let out
 

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Self-deception and personality.

Quotes from Souled In: "Placing value on the group and understanding the group is different though. Placing value (because it has worked for you in the past more when you were developing your functions based on trial and error/ pain/ pleasure/ genetic predispositions etc, environment etc), comes first, and understanding the group is kind of a subset technique, of placing value, just like actually using the function is a subset of placing value in it (not including motor reflexes, only talking about actions involving complex thought), which is why tests can be completely wrong."

This part makes sense, to some extent. The more I have seen different people actually take the Meyers-Briggs test, the more I've noticed that it has some built-in "controls" to prevent those who lie to themselves about who they are, from getting a false result. But of course, as life would have it, a select few are able to slip through the cracks. That doesn't bother me, it did when I was 16, but after pondering it for twelve more years, I have decided that the test also measures what a person values in others and in existence itself. So, any person who ends up with a Meyers-Briggs "title" that is not fitting, has won a very special prize indeed. Self-deception about identity has to be one of the worst and deepest types of trickery. But that burden of guilt lies with the deceiver, not the observer of all of this.

"F could also not feel feeling if they are barely aware of details or thoughts in the first place." - As in, comatose? Or in infancy?

"What I mean is, just because someone has a function preference, doesnt mean they use it."

Yes, that's confusing but it's true. As an INTP, I have been told repeatedly, "if you ever want to have and keep meaningful long-term relationships, you'd better work on highlighting your perceptive intelligence and your easygoing (accepting of diferring viewpoints) nature, and fake everything else until you become a person worthy of human love." ...or something like that. Well, I guess I could write off the whole idea of long-term, but just a few small things are holding me back from that viewpoint: I have 2 kids! And... I hate to see men running into my life, and then leaving them standing there later, bewildered and bereft.

Yeah.

So, being introverted and not particularly in tune with the implications of my own feelings and those of my loved ones (i do have them), causes some major issues. Like sleeping alone @ night. Any perceptive person can sense that a calm, warm body and an embrace is probably more comfortable than silence and space. Maybe others don't share that view. I like to think that I have a connection to another person, and one that goes far beyond a one-night stand. But to make that into a reality beyond my own mind... supposedly requires me to subvert my own personality. So I can see how your last point makes complete sense, sir. Just as an adventurer in Antarctica must regulate and re-configure his own natural urges to better adapt to his harsh, unfamiliar and at times unstable environment, so I must adapt. Making small talk occasionally, acting out on the vague, appropriate emotions that I sense within me, expressing my thoughts and feelings in small, bite-sized chunks so that others might have a chance at comprehending them... these are worthwhile tasks, I'm coming to realize. Yes, people really do have traits and not exhibit them; that is, not put them on display for all to see.

Fortunately, for those of us with the strong N, T and Pi fuctions, we can see right through it when people do that. Kind of a fun game, really. Like playing "Where's Waldo?" with thoughts and emotions.

I used to think that "toning down" one's personality would be a mistake, and pointless. But I can see how it helps us to maintain meaningful relationships, and establish real connections that are actually based in goodwill and common interests. I'd like to read what others here at PerC have to say about this, though.
 

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A nice written post and most of all its concluded in nice manner.I have read many of the posts but haven't read any of the post like it.Going to add in my cart of good posts.
Expecting some more good ones in the future...
 
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