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Beer Guardian
ENTP 5w6 So/Sx 584 ILE Honorary INTJ ♂
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Discussion Starter #1
I think I understand why the tritypes exist. I test equally as a 5w4 and a 5w6, and I'm very extraverted to boot.

I make full use of introspection as needed, but I don't mind being out with a crowd. I am not shy in the least. I may not "warm up" to someone on a more intimate level right away, but I'm friendly, polite, and affable. I want to hear what others have to say because I think alternate perspectives can only add to my knowledge base. I have a small circle of friends that I meet up with at least once a week. I can be loud and boisterous at times, and I can get up in front of a crowd of strangers without any real worries. I am involved in a long-term committed relationship with a woman I love. I have no problems with that, in fact, I would say I've gotten so used to her affection that I seek her out more than she does me.

I was at a college-level reading comprehension score in 7th grade. I absorb knowledge and trivia like a sponge. I remember historical dates and events as if I was there. I am intuitively gifted with an ability to understand and get the most out of technology. I love art and science with equal passion. I can see the good in just about anyone, and I rarely encounter someone I cannot accept for who they are.

So what does this boil down to? I cannot be adequately defined by what I have read thus far. There must be more to it. I'm an ENTP/ENTp/type 5. Maybe there's something to the tritypes after all?
 

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Ace of Spades
7w6 4w3 1w9 sp/so; Ni/Ne/Te-dom
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You are definitely not a Five. You posses none of the core fears of a Five, even a healthy one. And it seems like you don't even have the motivations of a Five. I think this is a case of being a Seven. Have you looked into the matter? Here are some quotes directly contrary to Fives:

I test equally as a 5w4 and a 5w6, and I'm very extraverted to boot.

I am not shy in the least.

I want to hear what others have to say because I think alternate perspectives can only add to my knowledge base.

I have a small circle of friends that I meet up with at least once a week.

I can be loud and boisterous at times, and I can get up in front of a crowd of strangers without any real worries.

I can see the good in just about anyone, and I rarely encounter someone I cannot accept for who they are.
Sevens can easily mistype as fives (I did that for years) with all the biased descriptions out there. Please strongly consider this. You might be another type altogether too.
 

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Beer Guardian
ENTP 5w6 So/Sx 584 ILE Honorary INTJ ♂
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Discussion Starter #3
You are definitely not a Five. You posses none of the core fears of a Five, even a healthy one. And it seems like you don't even have the motivations of a Five. I think this is a case of being a Seven. Have you looked into the matter? Here are some quotes directly contrary to Fives:


Sevens can easily mistype as fives (I did that for years) with all the biased descriptions out there. Please strongly consider this. You might be another type altogether too.
I typed as a 7 for years, but then I was assessed by someone whose been trained in the Enneagram. I also have ADHD, I don't know if maybe that changes things or not.

I am also considering the possibility that I have become more integrated. I suspect I have achieved a level of open-mindedness that is indicative of a high-functioning 5. I don't want to hord my knowledge, I want to see it put to some good use.

When I get stressed, I see my "fivish" traits, I retreat into my imagination, I read, play video games, or just surf the web for hours. If I hoard anything, it's I don't care much to clean. As long as I can navigate a path from my door to my computer, the rest of my personal room can be covered in clutter (it drives my 8 wife crazy, and thus she stays out of my room).
 

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Ace of Spades
7w6 4w3 1w9 sp/so; Ni/Ne/Te-dom
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I typed as a 7 for years, but then I was assessed by someone whose been trained in the Enneagram. I also have ADHD, I don't know if maybe that changes things or not.
That's interesting. I have no idea how they came to that conclusion, but I'm only going off what you have said in your one post. At the end of the day, if you relate more to the Type 7 motivations, you make the final call. Professionals can make mistakes.
 

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Beer Guardian
ENTP 5w6 So/Sx 584 ILE Honorary INTJ ♂
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Discussion Starter #5
That's interesting. I have no idea how they came to that conclusion, but I'm only going off what you have said in your one post. At the end of the day, if you relate more to the Type 7 motivations, you make the final call. Professionals can make mistakes.
Thanks for your input. I appreciate it.
 
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I think I understand why the tritypes exist. I test equally as a 5w4 and a 5w6, and I'm very extraverted to boot.

I make full use of introspection as needed, but I don't mind being out with a crowd. I am not shy in the least. I may not "warm up" to someone on a more intimate level right away, but I'm friendly, polite, and affable. I want to hear what others have to say because I think alternate perspectives can only add to my knowledge base. I have a small circle of friends that I meet up with at least once a week. I can be loud and boisterous at times, and I can get up in front of a crowd of strangers without any real worries. I am involved in a long-term committed relationship with a woman I love. I have no problems with that, in fact, I would say I've gotten so used to her affection that I seek her out more than she does me.

I was at a college-level reading comprehension score in 7th grade. I absorb knowledge and trivia like a sponge. I remember historical dates and events as if I was there. I am intuitively gifted with an ability to understand and get the most out of technology. I love art and science with equal passion. I can see the good in just about anyone, and I rarely encounter someone I cannot accept for who they are.

So what does this boil down to? I cannot be adequately defined by what I have read thus far. There must be more to it. I'm an ENTP/ENTp/type 5. Maybe there's something to the tritypes after all?
I agree with @Spades, that even if someone else has typed you who is supposed to be an "expert", you're really the only one who will know if you identify with the core motivations, fears, etc of a type. How in depth have you researched the types? It sounds like you have a fair amount of knowledge of them.

I also think that it can be much more difficult to identify the type of someone who is healthy/average. You may now be a healthy 7 or a healthy 5 (or perhaps another type). I'm a little unclear by your post - are you asking if you're a 5 or are you asking if you just don't have wings? Do you feel you don't fit the 5 description? I would say ignore any behaviour descriptions you read and just focus on the very core pieces. This may all be stuff you've seen before since it sounds like you've been interested in the enneagram for a while.

Unconscious Childhood Messages:
Type 1 -
"It's not okay to make mistakes."
Type 2 - "It's not okay to have your own needs."
Type 3 - "It's not okay to have your own feelings and identity."
Type 4 - "It's not okay to be too functional or too happy."
Type 5 - "It's not okay to be comfortable in the world."
Type 6 - "It's not okay to trust yourself."
Type 7 - "It's not okay to depend on anyone for anything."
Type 8 - "It's not okay to be vulnerable or to trust anyone."
Type 9 - "It's not okay to assert yourself."

Basic Fears:
Type 1 - Fear of being bad, corrupt, evil, or defective.
Type 2 - Fear of being unworthy or unloved.
Type 3 - Fear of being worthless or without inherent value.
Type 4 - Fear of being without identity or personal significance.
Type 5 - Fear of being useless, incapable, or incompetent.
Type 6 - Fear of being without support or guidance.
Type 7 - Fear of being deprived or trapped in pain.
Type 8 - Fear of being harmed or controlled by others.
Type 9 - Fear of loss of connection, of fragmentation.

Basic Desires and their Distortions:
Type 1 - The desire to have integrity (deteriorates into critical perfection).
Type 2 - The desire to be loved (deteriorates into the need to be needed).
Type 3 - The desire to be valuable (deteriorates into chasing after success).
Type 4 - The desire to be oneself (deteriorates into self-indulgence).
Type 5 - The desire to be competent (deteriorates into useless specialization).
Type 6 - The desire to be secure (deteriorates into attachment to beliefs).
Type 7 - The desire to be happy (deteriorates into frenetic escapism).
Type 8 - The desire to protect oneself (deteriorates into constant fighting).
Type 9 - The desire to be at peace (deteriorates into stubborn neglectfulness).

Lost Childhood Messages:
Type 1 -
"You are good."
Type 2 - "You are wanted."
Type 3 - "You are loved for yourself."
Type 4 - "You are seen for who you are."
Type 5 - "Your needs are not a problem."
Type 6 - "You are safe."
Type 7 - "You will be taken care of."
Type 8 - "You will not be betrayed."
Type 9 - "Your presence matters."

Spiritual Jump Start (patterns to be aware of):
Type 1 - Value-judging, condemning yourself and others.
Type 2 - Giving your value away to others.
Type 3 - Trying to be other than you authentically are.
Type 4 - Making negative comparisons.
Type 5 - Over interpreting your experience.
Type 6 - Becoming dependent on something outside yourself for support.
Type 7 - Anticipating what you are going to do next.
Type 8 - Trying to force or control your life.
Type 9 - Resisting being affected by your experiences.

The Wake Up Calls:
Type 1: Feeling a sense of personal obligation to fix everything themselves.
Type 2: Believing they must go out to others to win them over.
Type 3: Beginning to drive themselves for status and attention.
Type 4:
Holding on to and intensifying feeling through the imagination.
Type 5: Withdrawing from reality into concepts and mental worlds.
Type 6:
Becoming dependent on something outside the self for guidance.
Type 7:
Feeling that something better is available somewhere else.
Type 8: Feeling that they must push and struggle to make things happen
Type 9:Outwardly accommodating themselves to others.


How Each Type Manipulates Others
Type 1: By correcting others - by insisting that others share their standards
Type 2: By finding out others' needs and desires - thus creating dependencies.
Type 3: By charming others - and adapting whatever image will "work"
Type 4: By being temperamental - and making others "walk on eggshells"
Type 5:
By staying preoccupied - and by detaching emotionally from others.
Type 6:
By complaining - and by testing others' commitment to them.
Type 7: By distracting others - and by insisting that others meet their demands.
Type 8: by dominating others - and by demanding that others do as they say.
Type 9: By "checking out" - and by passively-aggressively resisting others.


The Leaden Rule for the Types (unhealthy territory):
Type 1: Fearing they may be evil, corrupt, or defective in some way, Ones point out evil, corruption, or defectiveness in others.
Type 2: Fearing that they are unwanted and unloved, Twos make others feel unworthy of their love, generosity, or attention.
Type 3: Fearing that they are worthless and without value in themselves, threes make others feel valueless by treating them arrogantly or with contempt.
Type 4:
Fearing that they do not have an identity or any personal significance of their own, Fours treat people disdainfully, as if others were "nobodies" and had no value or significance.
Type 5:Fearing that they are helpless, incapable, and incompetent, Fives make others feel helpless, incompetent, stupid, and incapable.
Type 6:
Fearing that they are without support and guidance, Sixes undermine the support systems of others, trying to isolate them in some fashion.
Type 7: Fearing that they are trapped in pain and deprivation of some sort, Sevens cause pain and make others feel deprived in various ways.
Type 8: Fearing that they will be harmed or controlled by others, Eights make others feel that they will be harmed or controlled by their belligerent and intimidating threats.
Type 9: Fearing that they will suffer loss of connection with others, Nines make others feel they have lost connection with the Nine by "tuning out" people in various ways.

The Red Flag Fears:
Type 1: That their ideals are actually wrong and counterproductive.
Type 2: That they are driving friends and loved ones away.
Type 3: That they are failing, that their claims are empty and fraudulent.
Type 4:
That they are ruining their lives and wasting their opportunities.
Type 5:
That they are never going to find a place in the world or with people.
Type 6: That their own actions have harmed their security.
Type 7: That their activities are bringing them pain and unhappiness.
Type 8: That others are turning against them and will retaliate.
Type 9: That they will be forced by reality to deal with their problems.

I'm an INFJ, but your description of yourself sounds similar to how I usually operate and I identify myself as a healthy/high average 5. I am shy with certain people in certain situations but I am also friendly, polite, and affable and I enjoy random meetings with strangers that happen every so often. I would not describe myself as extroverted but I am quite outgoing at this stage in my life. I also have a small circle of friends I see about once a week and I am also quite loud and boisterous with them. I have no issue with public speaking because whenever I do it it's on a topic I feel I have expertise in. I'm also involved in long term committed relationship and am planning for kids in a couple of years. I do not seek out his affection more than he does though. When I read the book descriptions of Type 5 it was really affirming for me because it not only showed me a reflection of myself and an explanation for so many of the issues I deal with, it also gave me a new angle to start working on those issues.
 

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Beer Guardian
ENTP 5w6 So/Sx 584 ILE Honorary INTJ ♂
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Discussion Starter #7
I agree with @Spades, that even if someone else has typed you who is supposed to be an "expert", you're really the only one who will know if you identify with the core motivations, fears, etc of a type. How in depth have you researched the types? It sounds like you have a fair amount of knowledge of them.
<SNIP>

Thanks for the info Sleepyhead I understand a great deal, but I'm always open to learning more. I still believe I do identify with the core motivations, but I have been through a lot since I was younger, I no longer feel scared, weak, helpless, and incompetent. The bullies that used to torment me have all grown up, and so have I.

At this point, I am thinking that our enneagram type is the tools we have to work with when we first start out, but it isn't a fixed limitation; it is only the thoughts, feelings, behaviors, and instincts, that we tend to favor. As we grow and mature, we can add some more tools to the toolbox.
 

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Beer Guardian
ENTP 5w6 So/Sx 584 ILE Honorary INTJ ♂
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Discussion Starter #8
I agree with @Spades, that even if someone else has typed you who is supposed to be an "expert", you're really the only one who will know if you identify with the core motivations, fears, etc of a type. How in depth have you researched the types? It sounds like you have a fair amount of knowledge of them.
<SNIP>

Thanks for the info Sleepyhead I understand a great deal, but I'm always open to learning more. I still believe I do identify with the core motivations, but I have been through a lot since I was younger, I no longer feel scared, weak, helpless, and incompetent. The bullies that used to torment me have all grown up, and so have I.

At this point, I am thinking that our enneagram type is the tools we have to work with when we first start out, but it isn't a fixed limitation; it is only the thoughts, feelings, behaviors, and instincts, that we tend to favor. As we grow and mature, we can add some more tools to the toolbox.
UPDATE: So here's the thing. If you add in the tritypes, I come out as a 258: The Strategist

-Caring/Helpful
-Knowledgable/Wise
-Protective/Straight Forward
-Highly sensitive, you are an empathetic and intellectual "people person". You are both introverted and extroverted and can be direct and easily move toward others, but also over give and pull away to recharge.

 

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Well dude, I'm an ENTP 5 and I got a feeling you're probably not. ENTP 7w6 perhaps, you seem to have a great deal of self awareness and who you are as a person. I like to start a random conversation with strangers, I like being around people(being by myself makes my head foggy), strut my individuality, speak my mind, debating, being on stage(like all ENTPs) but the definitive difference with an ENTP 5, in my regard, is obliviousness and zero awareness.
I often times feel disconnected with my body(inferior Si), and have no clue of how people perceive me(at the occurring moment, I need to go home, rewind the events in my head. Analyze it thoroughly until I'm certain what's happening; which is hard because I'm easily distracted), who I am as a person(it takes me a lot longer to ponder about my inner self; being extraverted we're not incline for introspection) I always got wrong signals in communicating and relating.
 

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so I just did a 7 hour class on enneagram. I am ENTP, very strong ENP traits but as I have aged they have mellowed. more middle of the road on T but still very T. I saw a bit of 8, 1, 4, 6, 7 in me during presentation. but then the presenter said

"the fear of the number 5 is that they do not have enough inner resources." I actually teared up. had no emotional reaction to other types. in group time I said I think I am 5 but leader said you are very extroverted and so the "retreat into private world" thing does not match up. but I think it does. I am huge sci fi fan, video gamer. though I like being social, I really need time in my own head. I am super data driven and very analytical/logic oriented. but my field/career has been in sociology/psychology and now spirituality/chaplaincy in which the data/thinking I do relates to people, their systems etc.

the shortest test said I am a 6. the long tests said I was strongest 5 then 1 then 4 as equal number two.

so I am wondering if a person who is really extorvert and socially aware can be number 5.


new theory: there are always outliers. when I was in college there was a group of fellow national merit scholars. we were all extroverts, or most of us. about 5. i think we were all fives. but being extroverted fives, rather than WITHDRAWING all the time to gain inner resources, we sought MERGER....in the form of a christian religious group that became cultic. I felt I lacked inner resources/knowledge and they could give it to me. does that make sense?
 

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Beer Guardian
ENTP 5w6 So/Sx 584 ILE Honorary INTJ ♂
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Discussion Starter #11
Well dude, I'm an ENTP 5 and I got a feeling you're probably not. ENTP 7w6 perhaps, you seem to have a great deal of self awareness and who you are as a person. I like to start a random conversation with strangers, I like being around people(being by myself makes my head foggy), strut my individuality, speak my mind, debating, being on stage(like all ENTPs) but the definitive difference with an ENTP 5, in my regard, is obliviousness and zero awareness.
I often times feel disconnected with my body(inferior Si), and have no clue of how people perceive me(at the occurring moment, I need to go home, rewind the events in my head. Analyze it thoroughly until I'm certain what's happening; which is hard because I'm easily distracted), who I am as a person(it takes me a lot longer to ponder about my inner self; being extraverted we're not incline for introspection) I always got wrong signals in communicating and relating.

Thanks for your input VivianeScrooge. I will have an opportunity to interact with a few more people who have been trained in person. I'll definitely pass on what you had to say. The thing is I do both extraversion and introversion. I will go out with my friends for hours and then come home and spend hours alone. I am very interested in other peoples' perspectives, maybe I don't think mine is good enough. I am comfortable in a small group of friends, or curled up with a book by myself. I'll keep at it, I'm sure I will sort it out sooner or later.
 

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In my school, back in the year 2000, there was an "enneagram culture" where kids went around typing each other. Granted, it was Sarah Lawrence College; these were not stupid people by any means.

People who met me once or twice decided I was a 7, based on my extraverted behavior. They encouraged me to learn enneagram. I read a brief description of 7.... it sounded nothing like me... and I was in the middle of other projects in isolation and had better things to do than worry about the latest social trend. However, they continued badgering me about the system. Finally, I was curious to know what the fuss was about and bought 3 books on enneagram. Months later, I emerged and began bickering with people about it. And I got the 144 question "test" book and my tests were overwhelmingly 5w4. The people who knew enneagram, but hardly knew me, suddenly decided I was indeed a 5 because I had collected knowledge on the topic and now I was willing to socialize with them a little bit to talk about it.

It should have occurred to them in the first place that nobody knew me very much except one friend who I hardly ever hung out with. Didn't they realize that despite how I acted around them, friendly, whatever.... I was doing something else 98% of the time; namely, experimenting on my mind in my room??

Just because someone is brilliant doesn't mean they're a 5, and just because someone is extroverted or confident doesn't mean they're not a 5. :p
 

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My intuition is that @tanstaafl28 is as 5ish as a 5 could be, when considering his state of mind. And he is a MENTALLY FLEXIBLE, self-aware 5 who overcame some of the issues that may have otherwise hindered him.

Must I justify my intuition with words?? Okay.. for those of you who prefer to use logic, read some of his other posts and then see what you think. O:) Do you observe this man chasing new experiences all the time, for the sake of newness? Or do you observe him chasing omniscience?

Having a compulsion for 'greed,' fearing the demands of the external world, and valuing 'omniscience' and 'competence' undoubtedly compels a person to gather knowledge, which is admittedly easier in isolation. But if the mind is flexible, and enough knowledge is gathered, it can also lead a person to realize there's a whole world outside of books, and if we step into that world, WE MIGHT LEARN EVEN MORE!! :O *Omniscience*, hello? :happy:

Furthermore, doing work on the Self, to expand possibilities, is often an obsession of the 5. After all, the only thing in the world that we can TRULY master is OURSELVES. Part of knowing Self it is experimenting on it, stretching it, testing it, and prodding it. If the 5 has other fixes, wings, or native cognitive function usage (like tritype fix at 2 or Ne for instance), which give him some tools to utilize in the social realm, he might venture outside of isolation, get married, make friends, explore the world, and add 'personal experience' into his treasure chest of knowledge. If these adventures are executed willfully, they need not interfere with the inner mental life... on the contrary, they could enrich it.

"I want to hear what others have to say because I think alternate perspectives can only add to my knowledge base" says @tanstaafl28 ....

Oh oh oh, do I smell *SOCIAL 5?* http://personalitycafe.com/enneagram-personality-theory-forum/117572-naranjo-instincts.html

While I'm ranting, I may as well add that my impression of "mistyped 5s" on the forum usually pertains to two categories of people: 1) "I'm smart, therefore I'm a 5" or 2) "I'm socially awkward, therefore I'm a 5." No, no. I'm more creative than intellectual, and more eccentric than socially awkward, and QUITE sensationalist and ballsy, but looking at @sleepyhead 's list on the previous page, most of the INNERMOST fears, desires, motives, childhood patterns, etc. of 5 describe my inner thought patterns to a T. If @tanstaafl28 is willing to question his type (which he clearly is, considering he wrote this post) and indeed he identifies with the 5 qualities on this list, and he has "been through a lot," then it seems likely he is an example of a self-aware, well-rounded 5 whose example could help other 5s reach the next level of development. On the contrary, I would contend that a lot of the 'miserably isolated' misfits on the forum are not 5s.

The competition for 'being a 5' is laughable to me. :unsure: Firstly, being a core-5 does not necessarily equate 'higher intelligence' - I know 3s, 6s, 4s, and others who probably have higher IQs than I. More importantly, no type is inherently 'better' than another. To me, enneagram is useful because it carves out a very specific path to other enneagram fixes; helping us escape the cages we built for ourselves to varying degrees. It is more of a hindrance if we use it as an identity or a justification for our compulsive mistakes.

All this being said, I think @Spades and @sleepyhead are correct to advise against taking one 'professional's ' word to heart; certainly finding one's own type must be based on more than an interaction with one individual, professional or not. :) I don't mean to be contentious. It's just that I'm quite passionate about the subject of what it means to be a 5, since I dug into the thing for 12 years, being an extroverted 5 myself. I might have waffled around like "Am I a 5 or an 8??" for the rest of my life had I not discovered tritype; and @Probably it was the insightful introduction to the world of cognitive functions that filled in the rest of the picture for me. :D
 

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Beer Guardian
ENTP 5w6 So/Sx 584 ILE Honorary INTJ ♂
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Discussion Starter #15
I'm absolutely chasing omniscience. Once and a while, I actually catch it, but it's a slippery fellow, and I inevitably lose it again.
 

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You're not alone, brother, I mistyped as a 7 myself for quite a while. In the general descriptions, I seemed in almost every way as a 7. On closer inspection, the core values, fears and hopes of the 7 were very alien to me - whereas the 5 stuff was pretty spot on. I mean, shit, I seek out pain and discomfort in order to learn from it and grow more capable in a physical manner, that's not really Seven behaviour, that's Five sprinkled with delicious Eight spices.

Anyway, seeing as you're an ENTP, I trust you can see the basic concept of the Five, the need to be smarter, stronger, tougher and more intuitive than the next guy, and fearing not to be, and recognise yourself in it - or not. ENTPs are clever with concepts, the more basic the cleverer, so to speak.
 

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I think I understand why the tritypes exist. I test equally as a 5w4 and a 5w6, and I'm very extraverted to boot.

I make full use of introspection as needed, but I don't mind being out with a crowd. I am not shy in the least. I may not "warm up" to someone on a more intimate level right away, but I'm friendly, polite, and affable. I want to hear what others have to say because I think alternate perspectives can only add to my knowledge base. I have a small circle of friends that I meet up with at least once a week. I can be loud and boisterous at times, and I can get up in front of a crowd of strangers without any real worries. I am involved in a long-term committed relationship with a woman I love. I have no problems with that, in fact, I would say I've gotten so used to her affection that I seek her out more than she does me.

I was at a college-level reading comprehension score in 7th grade. I absorb knowledge and trivia like a sponge. I remember historical dates and events as if I was there. I am intuitively gifted with an ability to understand and get the most out of technology. I love art and science with equal passion. I can see the good in just about anyone, and I rarely encounter someone I cannot accept for who they are.

So what does this boil down to? I cannot be adequately defined by what I have read thus far. There must be more to it. I'm an ENTP/ENTp/type 5. Maybe there's something to the tritypes after all?
I'm a five with balanced wings and I share many of characteristic you described. I love spending time on my own, but I'm ok in public. I'm not shy socially. Actually I don't think shyness is characteristic to five at all - real shyness is about others' opinion. Fives may be uninterested or frustrated with other's attention, but not obsessed about it. Friendly, polite, and affable - well, most of the time ;) I want to hear what others have to say because I think alternate perspectives can only add to my knowledge base. - Yes. I have a small circle of friends that I meet up with at least once a week. - that's very five. I can be loud and boisterous at times, and I can get up in front of a crowd of strangers without any real worries. Yes and of course, because why not. I am involved in a long-term committed relationship with a woman I love.- Nope, but I haven't met my nice eight ;)


I was at a college-level reading comprehension score in 7th grade. I absorb knowledge and trivia like a sponge. I remember historical dates and events as if I was there. I am intuitively gifted with an ability to understand and get the most out of technology. I love art and science with equal passion. I can see the good in just about anyone, and I rarely encounter someone I cannot accept for who they are.
Should this indicate your type? It seems you're a happy, good-natured person. Is it unlike five? ;)

Why do you think you're extroverted?
 

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I agree with @Spades, that even if someone else has typed you who is supposed to be an "expert", you're really the only one who will know if you identify with the core motivations, fears, etc of a type. How in depth have you researched the types? It sounds like you have a fair amount of knowledge of them.

I also think that it can be much more difficult to identify the type of someone who is healthy/average. You may now be a healthy 7 or a healthy 5 (or perhaps another type). I'm a little unclear by your post - are you asking if you're a 5 or are you asking if you just don't have wings? Do you feel you don't fit the 5 description? I would say ignore any behaviour descriptions you read and just focus on the very core pieces. This may all be stuff you've seen before since it sounds like you've been interested in the enneagram for a while.

(...)

I'm an INFJ, but your description of yourself sounds similar to how I usually operate and I identify myself as a healthy/high average 5. I am shy with certain people in certain situations but I am also friendly, polite, and affable and I enjoy random meetings with strangers that happen every so often. I would not describe myself as extroverted but I am quite outgoing at this stage in my life. I also have a small circle of friends I see about once a week and I am also quite loud and boisterous with them. I have no issue with public speaking because whenever I do it it's on a topic I feel I have expertise in. I'm also involved in long term committed relationship and am planning for kids in a couple of years. I do not seek out his affection more than he does though. When I read the book descriptions of Type 5 it was really affirming for me because it not only showed me a reflection of myself and an explanation for so many of the issues I deal with, it also gave me a new angle to start working on those issues.
Even inside the type, in similar health levels, people differ. Maybe wings, maybe some personal experiences. I agree that motivations are most important. As for the test, I generally mistrust the ones where they try to sum up some enneatype's attitude with one or two words. Like in those sentences you quote - my answers are mixture of 5,7,3 and 8. However I'm definitely a five. I wouldn't mind being another type, but I'm not. In fact when I was first identified as 5 I thought it was wrong, I imagined myself as something like 4 or 7 maybe. I wondered about 9, 3 and even considered 8. But the more I read about five, the clearer it was. Just some descriptions aren't too good, because they weren't made by fives.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I'm a five with balanced wings and I share many of characteristic you described. I love spending time on my own, but I'm ok in public. I'm not shy socially. Actually I don't think shyness is characteristic to five at all - real shyness is about others' opinion. Fives may be uninterested or frustrated with other's attention, but not obsessed about it. Friendly, polite, and affable - well, most of the time ;) I want to hear what others have to say because I think alternate perspectives can only add to my knowledge base. - Yes. I have a small circle of friends that I meet up with at least once a week. - that's very five. I can be loud and boisterous at times, and I can get up in front of a crowd of strangers without any real worries. Yes and of course, because why not. I am involved in a long-term committed relationship with a woman I love.- Nope, but I haven't met my nice eight ;)


I was at a college-level reading comprehension score in 7th grade. I absorb knowledge and trivia like a sponge. I remember historical dates and events as if I was there. I am intuitively gifted with an ability to understand and get the most out of technology. I love art and science with equal passion. I can see the good in just about anyone, and I rarely encounter someone I cannot accept for who they are.
Should this indicate your type? It seems you're a happy, good-natured person. Is it unlike five? ;)

Why do you think you're extroverted?
I think I'm somewhat ambiverted, but I do get a lot of energy from outside myself. I like to talk to all sorts of different people. I want to learn their perspectives as it gives me more to think about when I am alone. My tritype would seem to be 258 - The Strategist.

258 – The Strategist Archetype

She says this tritype [258] wants to really be of service by providing useful information to others and protecting others through their knowledge or expertise in a particular area. The energy seems quite split because of the introverted 5 interjecting with the extroverted 2 and 8 energy mingling. She said it can be a confusing type because there is a hot/cold quality to them that can be difficult for people to understand. One minute they are helpful and warm, the next cold and rejecting, and then another seemingly directive and blunt. On the high side they really know what is needed to protect and guide others. They can sometimes feel they don't have the internal resources to help others but want to have something to offer (which contributes to the hot/cold quality). I have an aunt who is this tritype (with 2 in charge) who really exacerbates the giving with strings attached things. I'd imagine if self pres were in charge it would really amplify the notion of feeling protective over resources creating tension against the need to be a resource to others.

If you are a 258, you are caring, knowledgeable and protective. You want to be helpful, wise and straight- forward. You are an intellectual ambivert both extroverted and introverted. You are caring and can easily move towards others to help, or feel over extended and feel the need to be pull away. Your life mission is to help, inform and/or protect others. A true analyst, you are happiest when you are in a position of leadership and can use your natural instinct to understand strategic principles to guide others.
You can be so identified with your opinions that you can be too forward or too distant from others, which can appear intense, unpredictable and intimidating

Your emotional energy goes towards seeking safety and certainty in relationships. You are sensitive to and expect rejection from others. Also, you tend to feel separate from others. You hold back your true self in relationships, offering instead, a skill, service or protection. Overall, because you expect to be rejected, you are cautious in relationships and may be hesitant to form attachments. As a result, you want others to come towards you.

2-5-8 - The Dominator

These types, more than anything, need to have the upper hand on people. They may be manipulative and/or domineering. Very often, power hungry.

5-8-2: Most personable and people-oriented Five, especially if SOC. Amplified with the Six wing.

five with an eight fix: least intellectual, though perhaps the most mentally
intense. unsettled by occasional fits of temper,
sudden outbursts. affixed to notions of power;
attitude of resigned realist. quietly guarded and
insistent, may put others ill at ease.

eight with a two fix: the overtly magnanimous and big hearted eight. sacrificial-dominant
style of relating to others; as protector, big spender, mama-bear
quality.

The rejection types (8-2-5), they said, are most comfortable at the initiation stage of a project or group, when they have to initiate and control things.

2-5s - They're schemers at heart. They combine their intellectuality with their emotionality to create sure-fire strategies that are bound to end with them projecting a "positive" image. They learn as much as possible from their environment to understand its rules and regulations, so they can then proceed to accomodate their image to it and therefore "fit in". This was the problem with Alice, as she could not understand her environment, thus her 5-fix had trouble. And because her 5-fix had trouble understanding, then her 2-type could not accomodate to the environment so easily. This led her to become frustrated and upset with her environment for not providing her coherent and consistent rules. The inconsistency of the rules and her natural tendency to accomodate the rules around her is what led her to become confused about her image.

8-2-5: Fear of weakness, humiliation and disenchantment. Tendency to seek strength, approval and intrigue.

I was reading through some of your tritype materials and I realized that you describe the blind spot for 258 and 458 as very similar--both as being cynical, headstrong, passionate, and moody. What kinds of things would you look for to differentiate these two? --Anytime you have two of the same types in a Tritype archetype, there is obviously going to be overlap. The 4 brings more moodiness, more depth, more introspection; the 2 is more extroverted, more focused on helping other. The 258 expects rejection, works hard to prevent it and acts like it isn’t important. The 458 fears rejection, hides it as well and can be hypersensitive to small slights. The 8 in both cases keeps these tritypes from showing their sensitivity to rejection. The 2 brings the reference to others and the external world and the 4 brings more a focus on the self and the internal world. The relationship to others is important. The 4 brings a move away with a pull, wanting others to follow. The 258 tentatively moves towards others. The 458 is as individualistic as the 478 but more opinionated and......focused on and indentifies with intellectual pursuits....more sensitive and less people pleasing.

5-2-8: these Fives take pleasure in helping and directing other people, but in the process can end up imposing their own views in a more or less direct manner. They need to stay in control of their relationships and although they make generous, devoted and fearless friends and partners, others might perceive them as possessive, demanding and domineering. These types tend to intrude on others while at the same time remaining secretive and self-protective themselves, hiding their own needs and problems.
typical subtypes: sexual, 5w4, 5w6 (counterphobic wing)
similar tritypes: 5-8-2, 2-5-8
flavours: self-confident, generous, dominating and possessive

5-8-2: these Fives are more focused on and involved with their environments. They’re typically quite imposing and intrusive on others’ lives although they don’t like it when the reverse happens. They are dedicated, courageous, confident and passionate people, sometimes overprotective of their loved ones and having a tendency to dominate and more or less subtly manipulate others into believing as they do. Aiming for a position of power and authority, these Fives have a deep urge to closely control their worlds.
typical subtypes: social, sexual, 5w6 (counterphobic wing)
similar tritypes: 5-2-8, 8-5-2
flavours: self-confident, controlling, passionate and brave
 

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Are you basing your tritype on the description above?
I am a 5-8-4, have never related to either wing, I am solidly 5. I don't want to make assumptions about your typing based on a few posts, but the way I came to determine my tritype was through a test (by the Fauvres) and self analysis. I am five, so 5 comes first. Out of the other triads, gut and heart, I only truly relate to the 8 and 4, with a preference toward 8, making that my second tritype 8, thus 5-8-.

You cannot be a type five and have a 2- as your tritype leader, from my understanding. You will always use your core type strategies first, and the others second and third.

In my experience reading descriptions is more confusing than helpful, when it comes to understanding actual functions, such as subtypes, the MBTI, etc. I don't read like an ISTP description, but I know what I am, and no description can define me. I may not totally agree with what is written about 5-8-4, but I have definitely felt the coping strategies in action when I was facing a problem. I analyzed the problem and feared being incompetent to solve it, I decided to beat it into submission or be brave, and then I searched for meaning from the experience. I even felt a physical reaction from this process, from fear, to bravery, to deep understanding. A glowing feeling radiated my entire body from head to guts.
 
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