Maybe that's why Troisi considered this video to illustrate Fi.Interesting, but idealistic.
You use sweeping broad-strokes to accuse people of not understanding one man's warmed over pining for utopia. "Let's all just love one another, we're hard wired for it." What have I missed?^ You guys are focusing on details instead of grasping the concept. Yet, you use complicated situations to criticize the concepts, basically ignoring the details of those situations.
Oh honey, I hope to do both :tongue:.You use sweeping broad-strokes to accuse people of not understanding one man's warmed over pining for utopia. "Let's all just love one another, we're hard wired for it." What have I missed?
Explain how I have overlooked the concept. I took an example he used as part of his proof that humans are hard-wired for empathy and not for selfishness, and I used it to posit a counter argument that empathy is selfish. All human action is done to derive utility, ergo, is utilitarian. If I won the lottery and gave it all away I'd feel damn good about it, and to me that feeling would be worth the millions of dollars, I have done nothing more than made a purchase. Tell me how that differs from feeling good by spending that money on a bunch of stupid shit? It's still utilitarian, and if I buy a bunch of bullshit that money goes to people with jobs.
I hope your rejoinder actually attempts to refute my argument rather than insult my intelligence because I'm not on board for a bunch of feel good BS that stands zero chance of working.
Ooooh! Good chance for type analysis here: INTPs tend to get caustic and defensive when they feel their intelligence is being insulted. < We need a narrator with an accent, "The elusive INTP has emerged from his shell to defend his territory, and he looks angry." :wink:
Making others feel good makes me feel good, therefore via the transitive property helping others is masturbatory, about making myself feel good. Extending it to your paragraph regarding the pet tarantula: our intentions, whether good or bad, don't always meet with reality, and that usually makes me feel bad, and I try and avoid this at all costs. Avoiding negatives is utilitarian.Oh honey, I hope to do both :tongue:.
There is a distinction so obvious to me, and the fact that Ti-doms often struggle to understand it is amusing.... roud:
Motive is a factor....do you give the money away to feel good or to make others feel good, because you know what it is to feel good? It's only selfish if your only concern is how the result affects YOU.
In the spider example - do you act to remove the spider to avoid your own creepy feeling or because you know what the creepy feeling is like and you want to help someone else avoid it also? Is the motivation for your own well-being ONLY? Win-win situations are not selfish, as they concern the welfare of both parties.
It becomes more complicated when you realize that people feel differently...maybe some people like their pet tarantula to crawl up their arm, and in taking action to remove it, you would not be helpful. You now must put aside your own feeling & make an effort to grasp theirs by comparing it to something you do understand, such as petting your dog & the pleasure it gives you. Then you can respond in ways which truly help people in their goals & they can do the same for you; and now you have people interacting productively.
Yes, there is more to it all than that, because there are always more variables, but the simplicity of the scenario illustrates a concept.