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My best friend forgot my birthday this past Monday and I was upset and called him out on it. To make this short we had an argument (about that and other things) and I said maybe we should talk less for a while which he didn’t respond to. I messaged him the other day to fix our miscommunication issues. However he kept cutting me off telling me he didn’t want conflict, which he has been saying lately. But I was no longer angry...I just wanted to come up with a plan to make sure our communication is clear.

He started crying and it was all very strange. At this point I said there’s something very wrong what is it? He informed me his cat had died the day I left from visiting him a month ago. Then he abruptly said he just wanted to smoke and not think that none of his friends visit him and he’s miserable etc.

He was fine when we hung out last week and I get he was ‘pretending’ but why did he choose to bring this up the day I called him to talk? Perhaps he was feeling particularly bad on this day idk.

This is the 3rd time he’s had a mental breakdown as I’m trying to fix something that’s happened between us.

He is not good at communicating yet thinks he is. I just want to reset our friendship but I’m afraid he must be exhausted and doesn’t have the mental capacity to think on this.

So how can I be empathetic and also think about myself? Of course I understand his cat passed, we are both extreme cat lovers and I understand he has clinical depression. But for my best friend to forget my birthday and then not give me any time hurts me. That’s important to me, it’s not like it had to be this week but he’s acting like me being upset and not talking to him for a few days (when he didn’t message me either) broke him. That have some minimal form of conflict is breaking him.

He doesn’t tell me what’s going on in his life, until he’s drowning. I don’t understand. That’s probably the biggest issue, he holds all kinds of things in and just explodes. That is hard to process and deal with.

Any advice will be appreciated, don’t be too hard on me~
 

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I'm not sure there is a good solution to the situation tbh. Unless he actually comes to you for help, chances are similar attempts are more of a emotional reaction then anything. Upon which your advice usually falls short. Or isn't acted upon.

And what you saw as a random implosion of his:
Likely that the conflict you had with him, in a sense, cracked his facade of not being emotionally shaken.

And if he has clinical depression, I am not sure there is much you can do either. he might need professional help.

I would give him a chance to kind of cool off, then try again. But if the cycling is vicious and toxic: Get out!
ENFP-INTJ can spin off in a unhealthy spiral in some cases; so I'd be weary if it gets too emotionally draining.
 

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Te aux and Fi tert sometimes think if some kind of rule of etiquette or expectation isn't met, then there must be some kind of sadness or mental illness to excuse it. They don't see it like we do. For us, if someone forgets our birthday we think they were not being thoughtful and what can fix it is them saying "Oh my gosh! I forgot! I did not mean for you to feel unloved! Let me re-assure you that you are SOOOOO important to me! Let me make it up to you!" That would fix it, even without the last line. That's how we would act and that's what we would expect. We don't expect for someone to say "Oh my gosh, I'm depressed. My grandma died...." etc etc. However it is my experience that Te aux and Fi tert often think they have to have some kind of emotional excuse and that this will make us feel better or compassion for them--- but it wouldn't help us to hear that. It would be their excuse, but it still wouldn't fix what we need fixed. We need to hear that we matter and hearing "My cat died" doesn't help us know that we matter to the person. Things are very easily fixed if people know they just need to reassure us through words and actions.

My husband's ISTJ father DEMANDS that something be wrong with him any time expectations are not met. I know S not N, but this is about that Te Fi. Anyway, I have heard my husband feel pressured to dramatize the craziest stuff when his dad was mad. By the way, I'm not saying he made any of this up about the cat... not at all... but my husband feels pressured to reach for SOME reason he does what he does for his ISTJ parent. Of course a cat dying really has nothing to do with forgetting your birthday. But that's tert Fi talking... they have a hard time understanding themselves.

So.... you might want to just explain to him that when something like this happens you just want reassurance that you matter and that your feelings matter. I'm not sure how you can find a way to talk about this and have it be kind of light and not heavy. I might even say something like "I want to talk to you about how two friends of mine communicate and what they need." and then say "I'm talking about us. Whenever I'm upset it usually is because whatever it is seemed like a lack of caring or love and I just need the reassurance that I am important, that my feelings do matter and you can do that with words and actions after whatever it is went wrong. I'm not asking you to go backwards. I'm not asking even for much of an explanation. I'm always really asking "Do you care about me? How much?" and when I come to you about it it's because I have faith that you really do care and will be able to reassure me."

Now.... by the way.... that kind of thing would work for people like us, anyway. When I talk like that with my husband, INFP 9... he still doesn't always get it. Hug me, dummy, would it kill you? Mend the broken heart you just broke and that I brought to you to fix.


.....right? ??? ???

By the way, I remember all the stuff with this one before. Nice to see you again, sweetie. I hope all is well for you besides all of this! Oh... also.... he must be feeling kind of inadequate lately at the heart of it. So talk to him about how great he is in other areas. /hugs and good luck! Hopefully he is in a good enough place to be able to understand and look outside himself. He might not be, come to think of it.
 

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That's a poem right there.

Hug me,

dummy,

would it kill you?

Mend

the broken heart

you

just

broke

and that I brought to you

to fix.
 

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This is why I told my ENFP that used to sink the ship about "Birthdays" &., myself forgetting dates, significant "details" (e.g. green not red!), and stories that happened 3 years ago.


1. INTJ have absolutely shit memory! I can barely remember my own! Let alone, any type of details from yesterday. Even more shit if depressed!

2. Fast-paced mind! Shit memory, means old information is constantly being expelled-filtered! Keep things short and to the point! , When it's long, I am listening, but not really!

3. I assume we're all the same page naturally! Make to sure to inform us we you are NOT.

4. Birthdays, etc., do not have much significance! INTJ utilize (Fi) - I am thinking of my own values (birthdays are not all that significant - first and foremost!) - unless you make them significant. Slap my (Fi) with your (Fi)! We respect other's values - and attempt to honor them.

5. If it is THAT important, beat it into me. Do not play "let's see what happens!" Communicate it by the way of beating it into me like a raw meat! Don't tell me once, tell me thrice until I tell you to fuck off, I get it!

6. Do not jump to conclusions. The entire friendship/relationship is in shambles out of nowhere. I ain't going nowhere!

7. Do not make DRASTIC decisions for temporal flux - for the both of us - (let's end it all! .. based off nothing at all, but your all!) Best friendship/relationship decisions are made in unison.

8. Hurt my feelings if you must, INTJ sometimes need wake up calls! I can take it and I'll adjust! Think of yourself first, ALWAYS.
 

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Plague Doctor
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I just want to say if this were me, it would be because I needed an adjustment to my medication for depression.

The only reason I start holding back from people I care about is if I feel that they're overly critical of me and I can't figure out where I stand with them and I'm starting to consider cutting them out of my life. Considering your description of your best friend, it seems that probably isn't the case with him.

If I found out I forgot my best friend's birthday, I'd be absolutely devastated. I'd feel so stupid and selfish and confused. This actually almost happened recently. I always tell my best friend "Happy Birthday" on his birthday at midnight his time. His is on the 15th of September, so I mean really recent. I got the time zones mixed up at one point really close ot midnight his time and I sent him a message and was like, "omg I so didn't miss your birthday did I? Because if so, I swear I've been thinking about it all day so I can wish it to you at midnight." He laughed and told me I still had 4 hours. But I guess this is different because it's not like your friend reached out to you first.

And then lastly ... I notice that you're in a contrasexual relationship with your best friend. Not that it can't work or whatever, but you do realise that certain crushes/love dynamics can come up in this situation and perhaps he might have been distancing himself from you as a result of this since you saw him last. Just a suggestion.


Also, I do this thing personally that if I see someone recently, I sorta have to have a break before I'm good to resume the relationship at a comfortable intensity.

All of these are anecdotal and just my impressions from what you said. I know someone said that just because ... doesn't mean mental health issues, but I've had depression for 23 years now and this is straight up exactly how I'd respond if I needed my meds adjusted. Sometimes events like grief can cause me to be overly sensitive, sure, but not to the degree you described.

Edit to add: I'm also deeply thankful that if my cat died my best friend isn't the sort of person who would expect me to do anything functional for the next two months. I've had her for 15 years and have had repeated panic attacks and crying spells around him just thinking about her dying. The bottom line: he knows I love him and if I ever forgot his birthday, especially the month my cat died, he wouldn't get butt hurt about it.
 

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Plague Doctor
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This is why I told my ENFP that used to sink the ship about "Birthdays" &., myself forgetting dates, significant "details" (e.g. green not red!), and stories that happened 3 years ago.


1. INTJ have absolutely shit memory! I can barely remember my own! Let alone, any type of details from yesterday. Even more shit if depressed!
Heh. My best friend is an INTJ and I tell him about once every 2 weeks, "My birthday is coming up in December. It's on the 20th. I'd like either a Whale stuffy or a Koala stuffy for my birthday." He laughs and is like, "I know when your birthday is", but I know he'd forget if I didn't tell him this so often. lol. I don't even do it because I care. I do it to highlight how forgetful he can be about stuff like that.

Just this past Monday, 2 days ago:
Screenshot 2019-09-18 at 1.04.05 AM.jpg
 

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I sure can relate as an INTJ and cat owner which I consider almost above some friends, when an INTJ bonds strongly with a person or animal, it is devastating to lose them, we so much try to keep our feelings in check, that these things wrecks us and if you add depression on top of this, damn the guy must be so bad !

Since everything in our brains is about effectiveness and that we gather everyday hundreds of subjects, to satiate our lust for knowledge, you can imagine that birthdays don't really seem as vital informations, so I'm also pretty bad with them and couldn't even remember my parent's Bday, if as luck has it they weren't both born on the exact same day and month... but still can't tell you their age... these informations just don't stick on our brains.

So now imagine your INTJ friend like most of us, is not the type to confide to everyone nor ask for support, his cat dies he's devastated and he sees no one picking up on that or caring, so he's kind of very sad and annoyed/disappointed, on top of this you shower him with you Feelings on being pissed off and get in a conflict about this insignificant thing for him, that are bdays, he can't function with this guilt of conflict and overflow of feelings adding to his, and the facade breaks down he loses it completely.

Which is exactly why he said he didn't want more conflict, he's at a point he will run away from it, so unfortunately you need to back off and let him cool down, tell him you're available if he really feels bad, but do not try to force talking or finding "solutions" on this friendship talk, because he will shut down completely !
 

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My best friend forgot my birthday this past Monday and I was upset and called him out on it. To make this short we had an argument (about that and other things) and I said maybe we should talk less for a while which he didn’t respond to. I messaged him the other day to fix our miscommunication issues. However he kept cutting me off telling me he didn’t want conflict, which he has been saying lately. But I was no longer angry...I just wanted to come up with a plan to make sure our communication is clear.

He started crying and it was all very strange. At this point I said there’s something very wrong what is it? He informed me his cat had died the day I left from visiting him a month ago. Then he abruptly said he just wanted to smoke and not think that none of his friends visit him and he’s miserable etc.

He was fine when we hung out last week and I get he was ‘pretending’ but why did he choose to bring this up the day I called him to talk? Perhaps he was feeling particularly bad on this day idk.

This is the 3rd time he’s had a mental breakdown as I’m trying to fix something that’s happened between us.

He is not good at communicating yet thinks he is. I just want to reset our friendship but I’m afraid he must be exhausted and doesn’t have the mental capacity to think on this.

So how can I be empathetic and also think about myself? Of course I understand his cat passed, we are both extreme cat lovers and I understand he has clinical depression. But for my best friend to forget my birthday and then not give me any time hurts me. That’s important to me, it’s not like it had to be this week but he’s acting like me being upset and not talking to him for a few days (when he didn’t message me either) broke him. That have some minimal form of conflict is breaking him.

He doesn’t tell me what’s going on in his life, until he’s drowning. I don’t understand. That’s probably the biggest issue, he holds all kinds of things in and just explodes. That is hard to process and deal with.

Any advice will be appreciated, don’t be too hard on me~
Wait...Is your friend the INTJ? A male INTJ and he cried when you confronted him?
 

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Wait...Is your friend the INTJ? A male INTJ and he cried when you confronted him?
LOL Moby! You're so funny, good point. It's also why I said what I did too. I don't think he'll be able to look outside of himself even enough for a quick easy re-assurance for our @Short Cake Cake. My gosh what a huge leap it is from aux to tert Fi.
 

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Plague Doctor
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Wait...Is your friend the INTJ? A male INTJ and he cried when you confronted him?
To be fair, I know two INTJs who are particularly prone to weeping. But speaking from experience, if someone confronted me right after my cat died about ANYTHING, I'd probably cry too. And if it was to inform me that I forgot my best friend's birthday, I *know* without a doubt I'd cry. That person is one of the most important people in my life. If I were so dumb to forget his birthday I'd probably question my whole reality.

True story: about two months ago an INFP made me cry. It was so weird. I don't even want to talk about the particulars, but it was over something I just imagined based on what he said lol. And no, I hadn't missed a dose of my meds NOR was it any sort of time of the month or anything like that - it was just ... I guess a lot of things had been building up for the past year and what he said was the last straw. lol.
 

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Wait...Is your friend the INTJ? A male INTJ and he cried when you confronted him?
It can happen if either I trust the person with my life.
Or if something kind of breaks me in an already emotionally charged moment and my emotions overwhelm me.

In other words:
I don't typically allow the average person to see my emotions, walling them off, but if my walls are crumbling from emotional burdens, random crying can occur. In this case he was already shaken and she just blasted a huge hole in the walls as he already was feeling down. So he cried.

Not really that unexpected. We're still human beings.:happy:
 

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Shhhh, you're breaking our reputation and giving up our secrets !!! :wink:
I also own a "free hugs available here" T-shirt. :eek:h:
But that's enough secrets for one day, I guess.
 
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