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Discussion Starter #1
Okay so I've been wondering if any other INTPs experience this.

At the risk of sounding somewhat shallow, basically I've come to realize that anything I do ultimately has the goal of external recognition or of other people seeing me as the best. I'm not really concerned with learning something for it's own sake unless I can find a way to directly apply it to my life or a situation (but I can be pretty creative on finding a way for the information to be useful/applicable, which drives me to constantly learn new things).

For the last 4-5 years I've had a desire to start my own business. I've had a few that failed to take off, but over the last 6 months I have built something that has been having some great success. And the money is there, but it's kinda behind the scenes and I always have an urge to "show it off" when I'm doing something well.

Sometimes it makes me think I am an ENTP, but most people that know me and MBTI well are convinced I'm an INTP. (and I'm not an S, definitely full blown Ne and Ti).


I definitely have other drives like wanting to understand how things work and always wanting to see the big picture, but those seem secondary to wanting to make an impact and be recognized.


So I was just wondering if any other INTPs can relate to this.
 

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Okay so I've been wondering if any other INTPs experience this.

At the risk of sounding somewhat shallow, basically I've come to realize that anything I do ultimately has the goal of external recognition or of other people seeing me as the best. I'm not really concerned with learning something for it's own sake unless I can find a way to directly apply it to my life or a situation (but I can be pretty creative on finding a way for the information to be useful/applicable, which drives me to constantly learn new things).

For the last 4-5 years I've had a desire to start my own business. I've had a few that failed to take off, but over the last 6 months I have built something that has been having some great success. And the money is there, but it's kinda behind the scenes and I always have an urge to "show it off" when I'm doing something well.

Sometimes it makes me think I am an ENTP, but most people that know me and MBTI well are convinced I'm an INTP. (and I'm not an S, definitely full blown Ne and Ti).


I definitely have other drives like wanting to understand how things work and always wanting to see the big picture, but those seem secondary to wanting to make an impact and be recognized.


So I was just wondering if any other INTPs can relate to this.
I can somewhat relate. I seek recognition for reassurance because I am a self-conscious schmuck. My self-doubt stems from the lack of attention I received as a child and I often feel the need to prove myself because of it. Maybe you've undergone a similar experience?
 

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It's strange. On one hand, I feel very competent with things like business - or anything I put my mind to really. I think that comes from Ti. Recognition is nice (and probably selfish), but it's not the main driving force for me. But, like @Minerva1 said - I'm also unsure of myself in certain arenas/environments/fields, and so I look to others who are competent/knowledgeable to sort of "teach me", or help me through. I think what you're talking about OP, is that many times we keep our thoughts very internal - we keep our thoughts to ourselves. So, when we have some success with our mind creations in the "outer world", it probably just feels nice to hear people say, "Yeah, nice job. You did really well." Or, "Yeah, I really admire what you've done." It's nice to hear that from time to time.
 

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This is quite the opposite of me actually, as I hope for nobody to notice my accomplishments. Perhaps this is because I'm 100% introverted, though.
 

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I look for recognition in the ability to learn and excel at complex tasks, not for the specific task itself. This is how I asses my self worth. My ability to learn and accomplish from a completely fresh and new perspective, with no previous bias or prejudices. To deny my eagerness and willingness to learn and tackle new and difficult challenges its the ultimate blow to my ego. I do not seek compliments nor admiration. I seek to learn how far I can push myself, and then some.
 

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I think many of us desire recognition, but I reckon INTPs will only really appreciate it when we believe it to be deserved. We need to be confident in the observer’s ability to evaluate our skill and the fruits of our efforts before we will give their appraisal consideration. It has to have a perceivable weight.

The recognition also needs to come from an expert in a domain that interests us, a domain that challenges us and sparked a desire for competency.

There do appear to be a select few that have an innate sort of confidence, that can project as much as they observe and thus can largely do without external recognition. I do wish I were similar, but it seems like a disposition you’re born with and not something one can work their way towards.

Focus your efforts on things you genuinely enjoy doing(not just for recognition alone) and hopefully the rest will fall into place, even if you’ll never quite feel as if you're competent enough. It’s an insatiable pit, you can only fill it with an innate subjectivity from within. As far as I can tell you’re either shooting from the hip from the very beginning, or you’re #$%^ed.
 

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If you research INTP vs INTJ you'll find that what you are describing is essentially the difference between the two. INTJs like learning so they can do something with it, learning is secondary; but INTPs like learning for the sake of learning and will do something so they can learn. (Things like messiness and procrastination are only stereotypes and aren't accurate determinants for a type).

I don't know if I agree with this "research" though (most of it comes from people who aren't MBTI qualified experts anyways and are just on some random forum trying to put their stupid ideas out so they can feel smart. . . I'll stop) because if I ask myself why I want to learn [what I am currently focusing on at the moment] it is usually for a goal larger than just learning itself (whether it be to expand my mind to make myself smarter, then with those smarts feel more fulfilled and happy [~which wouldn't necessarily happen, but I still act like it anyways]). In fact, traits attributed to INTJs like a strong power of will, a desire to be in control, and planning are attributes that I have as well. (After reading an INTP description [and browsing these forums] I started to downplay planning and glamorizing myself for the lack of it - but recently I realize this is only laziness and justification of flaws that I felt in myself).

Then again, INTP traits like enjoying adaptation, problem solving, the lack of following through with plans, and the use of Ti (but I also feel like I "hone" in on an answer and use Ni sometimes) are characteristic of me. This website made me feel more like an INTP: Question of the Day: INTJ or INTP?

^And I haven't proofread this so I apologize for mistakes
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Good points. A lot of it makes sense.

It could be an attention issue. Ever since I was in 1st grade I was told that I was the smartest kid in the class, so maybe that has always left me with the need to prove to myself and others that I was the best in school. Around high school though, my grades started slipping and I stopped caring as much. I think maybe I have shifted that motivation for good grades instead toward making more money than others as a way to keep score. Which probably is unhealthy and/or a form of selfishness.

Richard, that makes sense what you are saying. What am doing is rewarding and fulfilling for me. But it's kinda weird because I always figured when I started making good money I would be on the top of the world. And I do feel very good, it's just seems it's not enough to keep me going for even more. It's not like I'm having a breakdown or anything, but I'm gonna have to do some more searching to find what's truly motivating me deep down I suppose.

Verrsili, good point about INTPs doing things for the sake of wanting to learn something. I'm realizing that might have helped me get to this point I'm at now. I'm kinda at a stagnant position right now. I might have to hire someone to do what I've learned so far in order for me to explore ways to generate new income sources.

It's kinda what I had planned but it does seem like the ultimate INTP business model:

Mess around with everything and find something that makes money
Pass it off to someone you hired (before you get bored of it)
Repeat

Then you'll be set with multiple income streams and always have free time to explore and try new things.
 

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I also just want to add that the moments in my life where I felt extremely motivation and passionate and incredibility optimistic about life where the times that I found that one thing I can love and learn and examine and improve. It's just a pattern I have noticed from my life, I don't know what it is for you guys. All the prolonged period of procrastination and stagnation, following my a drive that lit a fire up my ass and fueled my ambition to get up in the morning. This is what I really want and need, and its what makes me happy. Without it I feel incapacitated, unchallenged, and depressed.
 

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I know what you mean to some extent. My main thing is that I just don't want to look like a moron to other people. I am anxious in most of my decisions that I will make them angry accidentally (though if they attack me with words...I will not hold back).
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Theorycraft, could you give an example? I think that's how I am too. When I first found out about MBTI I wanted to learn everything about it. Same with other topics like Psychology, NLP, Programming, Poker, etc. I think that's currently what I'm going through with Business/Entrepreneurship right now.
 

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Although I will always treasure my award for 7th grade obstacle course winner, I have zero desire for any kind of recognition.
Just let me work the next 30+ years in peace, give me a nice watch or whatever, and lots of vacation time.
 

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I wish I didnt care what people thought of my accomplishments.. Im actually seeking counsel from an INTP friend on how to stop caring about the rest of the world....Like he said, they dont care, why should you... I agree, but I cant reboot my brain....
 

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Theorycraft, could you give an example? I think that's how I am too. When I first found out about MBTI I wanted to learn everything about it. Same with other topics like Psychology, NLP, Programming, Poker, etc. I think that's currently what I'm going through with Business/Entrepreneurship right now.
Sure. When I reflect upon my life of 23 years, it can be pretty much summed in with a series of invigorating passion to understand following by a insurmountable feeling of inability and worthlessness until I come across an idea/problem/concept/skill/system that reinvigorates my desire to learn again. I was a normal kid doing normal kid things until I came across a game called Starcraft and it light my brain up and awakened my INTP brain to what it will eventually become today. I spent middle school and high school focusing on playing Starcraft as much as possible and my normal life became the double life. I wake up everyday so I could half ass my way through school and get home and play Starcraft. The next game was Diablo 2, following my Lineage 2, and then World of Warcraft. My competency in playing these games were unmatched by my peers. When I reached a high enough level where I deemed satisfactory, I quit. I spent the next few years learning music and playing guitar. I learned from a friend who excelled in this area and had a natural ear for understanding music as an art form. I played with my INTJ friend in a band but it eventually fell apart but I kept practicing and studying by myself, even to this day. After that, I was fascinated by no limit hold-em and I took the most extreme and reckless measurement to throw myself into the fire and not only learn about the game, but the life the lifestyle. I dropped out of college (my grades were shit and beyond recoverable) and spent three month living with my friend (also INTJ) who coached me through online 6max NLHE. We parted ways after that, but that time was one of the most rewarding experiences of my life. I was cruising until Black Friday hit and I a bump in the road where I could no longer perform what I thought I did best because some asshole in a suit said no. I felt immobilized during that month and I literally did nothing at all. Thats when someone entered by life that made me want to understand the one thing I had neglected most of my life, people. She (INFJ) instilled in me the desire to learn about myself, the people around me, human relationships, and most importantly, the need to love and be loved. And now here I am on PerC, learning as much as I can about MTBI and personality behavior.

Heh, I didn't really mean to give away my life story. But I think its important for others to know that learning and understand about ideas, subjects, or the people we love IS life incarnate for an INTP mind. I could give a shit less about the external world, collecting material goods, or going through the daily routine and grind. I just need the JOURNEY of learning, or else I feel dead inside.
 
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