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Discussion Starter #1
I am an ISFP and I am very good friends with an ESTJ. He enjoys my company, and all of our mutual friends feel that, based on how he treats me, he likes me as more than a friend. I am of the school of thought that if a guy wants you, he'll go after you. I know SJs are planners and aren't as impulsive as SPs. But I am confused, should I make the first move? Should I wait for him to make the first move? SJs are really traditional, so my first instinct is to wait. But at the same time, what if he thinks that I'm not interested... I don't want to miss out on this opportunity, because I think he's my soulmate. Arg! I just want to get inside of his head. Please help male ESTJs!
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Okay I know I am not a guy, and this is very very interesting because I was in a very similar situation with my friend who is an ISFP guy and I am an ESTJ girl. He used to confuse the hell out of me though because he was always very touchy feely with me and it wasn't like I ever said stop because there was always a part of me that did want to be with him that way. The problem is, I knew he was touchy feely and playful with everyone and so I never actually knew if he liked me like that. Therefore, to keep my heart safe, because at least for me feeling felt too vulnerable, and to make sure that we didn't lose our friendship I kept my head and just moved along like we were always friends.

My assumption is that he feels like you guys could be more than friends but he's afraid to lose you or get hurt. Telling someone you like them is very risky, and it involves feelings. At least for me, I have this attraction for ISFP's where I am almost a little addicted. It may just be me, but there's something about how calm and sweet you guys are, not to mention you sort of light up the world in you're own sort of quiet way. He does all sorts of things that confuse me and I am always very intrigued. I would try making some kind of move and see how he reacts, although he may not because he doesn't know that you're necessarily doing this for him, so make sure that he knows you're giving him special treatment that is different from what you give others. But be playful and see if he flirts back more. If he starts really caring about you he'll give you special treatment as well. There may be a point though, where you may just have to be direct, even if it's hard.

I could be completely wrong here. And I am a girl so maybe that makes a difference. I just know about that ISFP/ESTJ connection, and it seems to be really amazing. Not to mention the kinds of stuff you end up teaching each other. Good luck! I hope it works out!
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for that, I will definitely try to be more playful and flirty. But I wear my feelings on my sleeve, and I do treat him differently from others already. We have this amazing relationship apart from our others friends, with whom we are close with as well like extended family. So what would it look like when an ESTJ is giving someone special attention?

I also totally get that special bond, for me an ESTJ is like my compass, always pointing north, grounding me. I depend on this guy so much for advice and I value his point of view more than anyone.

I am used to men being direct, and haven't really been in a situation where I have feelings for someone and am sure how they feel. The fact that he's an ESTJ just makes it that much harder because it's so different from how I think.

I am interested in the male perspective here, but thanks for your response as well.
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I tell people I like them by sharing feelings with them. We don't really do that very often, so I know I care about someone a lot if i can do that. Also, being touchy feely is a big thing too because I dont do it as often unless i like someone. I also will talk to them more, and call them more than other people. And I do things for them like give presents, or make food, or help with something. Also, be sort of spontaneous and surprise him, i usually hate when things are like that because then its out of my control and not expected. But for people I like I wont be upset at all and with the ISFP i'm friends with I kind of crave it more. You could try to get one of your friends to ask him. And see what kind of compliments he gives you, because we are not usually big on those or on appreciation comments. My main issue with my friends as that I was constantly torn between my head who was telling me to leave it alone because i didn't want to lose that friendship, or my heart who was telling me that this would be amazing and worth the risk, so most of the time i was stuck and didn't do anything. You might want to just tell your guy eventually though, because if you guys are really good friends, you can get passed it.

also, I was just wondering, because I've never met anyone like my friend and I before. Do you guys share everything with each other? And i dont know if you feel this, but do you feel sort of drawn to him? I just feel like ISFP's and ESTJ's have this connection where there's just no way they cant feel drawn to each other, but maybe that's just me.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Yes! and Yes! I am drawn to him like a magnate. He's not the usual type of person I date or am attracted to, but I want him so badly.

We both have major trust issues and never share with anyone things about ourselves, but he confides in me, and vice versa. We both aren't very touchy feely, but occasionally we'll be sitting next to each other or watching a movie together and our legs will touch, or I'll lean on his shoulder and he doesn't get tense or uncomfortable or try to move away. We are very comfortable together.

I guess my biggest fear is that I'll lose his friendship by showing my feelings. His friendship is one of the most precious friendships that I've ever had. But, like you said, it may be worth the risk. And also, since we're both women, we're naturally a bit more emotional, I can't wait to see what a guy will have to say...
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Ya its so weird. My friend and I became best friends because somehow we accidentally just poured our hearts out to each other before we were even friends. And we both feel this pull to tell each other whatever it is that's upsetting us. But agreed, the trust issues are also a huge one with us. We actually split up for 2 years because of it and then realized we couldn't actually let the other person be out of our lives forever, we just missed each other too much. I am also curious to see what guys my type have to say...liking your best friend makes everything so difficult.
 

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Okay so I talked to my guy friend who is also a ESTJ about this, not really using detail but asking in a general way. And he said that when he likes someone he pays more attention to them than other people, he's more ernest with them, even when joking around. The things he says to them have more significance and meanings than what he says to others. He then said that if one of his best friends told him that they liked him, he would be flattered, but mostly he wouldn't let it come between their friendship if he didn't like them back. And I agree, ESTJ's are very committed to their relationships, especially the really close ones and would never end them unless we felt like it was absolutely necessary.

I was thinking that I told my ISFP friend that I liked him many years ago, and although he had a girlfriend at the time and was committed to her and didn't love me like that, or at least couldn't, I never really got a straight answer, our friendship didn't change at all. We actually became stronger and nothing really changed very much. Of course recently when he was drunk he told me that he thought i had bad timing when i said that, and always thought we'd end up getting married. But he claims he doesn't remember saying this so I have no idea what he really thinks.

Anyway, just thought i'd let you know what my guy ESTJ friend said!
 

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The only ESTJ guy in this forum is T-Guy. He rarely lurk around, so you might want to PM him, imo.

Btw, Keirsey said that ISFP-ESTJ are an ideal match. So I'm also interested with how your relationship goes, seeing it as an ideal relationship. I had a crush on an ISFP guy once, but I don't recall that we ever "drawn to each other". I told him I like him, but he didn't say anything. And so the moment left us. He's married now.



 

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@ Wicked Queen...I read that as well. But what I need help understanding...what makes ISFP-ESTJ so ideal, and INFP-ESTJ so difficult. Im in a current on again relationship with an ESTJ...but Im not the typical INFP (I have many 'hard' aspects in my astrological chart).
 

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Well, ISFP and ESTJ are both sensors, so SP-SJ can make a good ideal match because although they have their own way in approaching the world (FP-TJ), they have the same way of viewing the world (Sensors). It's like ISFP-ESTJ has different tools, but they have the same purpose, so they complete each other.

On the other hand, INFP and ESTJ are very opposite to each other. I think the only reason why many of INFP-ESTJ are attracted to each other is because we both a shadow type of each other, and from our opposite partner, we see what we need that they have but we don't have. But basically INFP-ESTJ has more difficulties and harder to compromise comparing with ISFP-ESTJ, because we have very different ways in viewing the world (N-S) and also when approaching it (FP-TJ).


 
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Discussion Starter #14
I have to agree. I want to slap all of my NF/NT friends when they start getting all abstract on me. One thing that I love about SJs is their grounded grasp of reality.
 

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I have to agree. I want to slap all of my NF/NT friends when they start getting all abstract on me. One thing that I love about SJs is their grounded grasp of reality.
^Haha, I think I can relate.

Your story was interesting, I didn't know ESTJs and ISFPs had that kind of relationship. (Then again, I haven't really read up on every other personality besides ISFPs)

Hope I find an ESTJ :happy:
 
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Ya agreed, NF's and NT's drive me crazy sometimes. Like I can relate to the NT's really well on most things, but then there's always this different outlook on many things having to do with N vs. S that just make it difficult. I think people come together because they are attracted to the opposite, but what holds that relationship together is what they have in common, so if you're exactly opposite each other, you don't have any natural things in common.

When I read about the ESTJ and ISFP relationship I was shocked because that's exactly the kind of crazy best friendship I had. I wasn't sure that there were others though, and I'm glad to see that there are because that makes me feel like its more stable :).

ESTJ's are about 13% of the population, so as long as you find a healthy one, we are not that difficult to find. And we're probably the ones that approach you, so thats a good thing if you're shy. ISFP on the other hand is only 5% so it's not wonder these two types don't cross paths as often. In my case I just happened to be working in a very art filled job, and my best friend is a musician so we were bound to cross paths one way or another. I just thought he was sort of cocky and didn't care about other people, but I was definitely proven wrong. I'm assuming he thought I was sort of a lot to take at once when we first met as well, but you get passed that and it seems to be really amazing. And I will say that I changed my personality type to be less controlling and less harsh because of him. I actually found now that I am not as attracted to T's for personal relationships anymore. All those NF's I couldn't relate to suddenly became easier to talk to. Because of him, close relationships with T's are just too unfeeling for me. And he told me he gained more of a backbone from being with me. Its really amazing how much opposites can teach each other.
 

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Ya agreed, NF's and NT's drive me crazy sometimes. Like I can relate to the NT's really well on most things, but then there's always this different outlook on many things having to do with N vs. S that just make it difficult. I think people come together because they are attracted to the opposite, but what holds that relationship together is what they have in common, so if you're exactly opposite each other, you don't have any natural things in common.

When I read about the ESTJ and ISFP relationship I was shocked because that's exactly the kind of crazy best friendship I had. I wasn't sure that there were others though, and I'm glad to see that there are because that makes me feel like its more stable :).

ESTJ's are about 13% of the population, so as long as you find a healthy one, we are not that difficult to find. And we're probably the ones that approach you, so thats a good thing if you're shy. ISFP on the other hand is only 5% so it's not wonder these two types don't cross paths as often. In my case I just happened to be working in a very art filled job, and my best friend is a musician so we were bound to cross paths one way or another. I just thought he was sort of cocky and didn't care about other people, but I was definitely proven wrong. I'm assuming he thought I was sort of a lot to take at once when we first met as well, but you get passed that and it seems to be really amazing. And I will say that I changed my personality type to be less controlling and less harsh because of him. I actually found now that I am not as attracted to T's for personal relationships anymore. All those NF's I couldn't relate to suddenly became easier to talk to. Because of him, close relationships with T's are just too unfeeling for me. And he told me he gained more of a backbone from being with me. Its really amazing how much opposites can teach each other.
Interesting, I didn't know that there were so few of ISFPs and ESTJs.
Yeah, you're right if I meet an ESTJ they'll probably talk to me first :p (I'm pretty shy)
 

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Also there just happen to be more men who are ESTJ's and more women who are ISFP's which makes it even smaller. But don't worry, we tend to be attracted to the quiet ones and you guys are such great listeners, especially considering we do like to talk a lot...:) You guys just have so many traits we wish we could have in ourselves. At least that's always what captures me about my friend. The problem is if I say so he doesn't always believe me, but we're getting there.
 

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I've never met any other ISFP's so I cant say, but this one I was really drawn to because he was sort of a mystery to me. Quiet, and really talented and so so nice. It didn't seem real and then I found out it was and I wanted to learn more. You guys are just so sweet and know how to have fun. You're good listeners, which is ideal for us because we like to talk a lot. When you guys say stuff I really pay attention instead of interrupting because you're opinions are very unique and clearly thought out. I have a lot of appreciation for you guys.
 

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Chelleblu:

I am not an ESTJ, but I have been married to one for 10 years. The first thing- You must have a complete mental reset on your quote -

I just want to get inside of his head.
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You will not...You will not… Not in the way you are thinking or more importantly feeling… So if you want to be with him in a deeper way you must get over that now… It is more important for you to be thinking you just want to get inside his calendar. Time is precious to them and if they are spending it on you, than you are precious to them. Period.

Second they don't fix what they perceive to be not broken. While you are pining away waiting for him to romance you, he may have no idea what so ever that you are unfulfilled.

So now the question you should be asking yourself is are you spending the time with him doing the things that you need to do to feel romantic. So let’s say you want to go out on a dance with him. I use dance as an example, but this can be anything. You need to irritate him in a way that gets your outcome.

For example. throw down a challenge. Say, "You know so and so knows how to dance. I bet you could if you tried... let's go to such and such tonight and see what you can do..." Then be silent... You may want to space this over several discussions… It will bug him and he will start to get motivated.

If that is too strong, try his nurturing/protective side. "You know I love to dance, but I get hit on by so many un cool people and all my girlfriends are busy tonight... Can we go to such and such tonight?" Then work to make it habitual.

If you think I am nuts, I moved in with my then girlfriend (who is now my wife) by saying the laundry machine in my apartment building is really slow. You have two fast ones in your apartment building that can get the job done much quicker. Can I bring my laundry bag over? It never left…
 
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