Personality Cafe banner

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,299 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Whew! Don't even know where to begin to try to capture my thoughts. I had my counseling session on yesterday and the therapist put a word to something I tend to do...Anesthetizing. When I first describe that I go thru a process when I cut people out of my life I care about she thought I did it with drugs, alcohol, etc. But, I don't it's all mind games of sorts I play with myself when I no longer want to care/have feelings for someone else because I want to cut them out of my life and/or push them away.

Or, if feelings get to be unbearable for me and/or I don't want to deal with them I tend to do it then as well. I can basically numb myself to the point where I don't feel anything....when I decide to do this as I explained to the therapist it usually stays that way...I typically don't ever revert back to relating to the person the same way again or I don't ever let them back into my life.

This may be a 'me' thing and have absolutely nothing to do with personality behavioral patterns....however I was just curious if anyone related to doing something similar.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
594 Posts
Whew! Don't even know where to begin to try to capture my thoughts. I had my counseling session on yesterday and the therapist put a word to something I tend to do...Anesthetizing. When I first describe that I go thru a process when I cut people out of my life I care about she thought I did it with drugs, alcohol, etc. But, I don't it's all mind games of sorts I play with myself when I no longer want to care/have feelings for someone else because I want to cut them out of my life and/or push them away.

Or, if feelings get to be unbearable for me and/or I don't want to deal with them I tend to do it then as well. I can basically numb myself to the point where I don't feel anything....when I decide to do this as I explained to the therapist it usually stays that way...I typically don't ever revert back to relating to the person the same way again or I don't ever let them back into my life.

This may be a 'me' thing and have absolutely nothing to do with personality behavioral patterns....however I was just curious if anyone related to doing something similar.
I'm just doing something similar, in a way. But before the numbness can manifest itself, I have to go through quite an emotional fight to get really to the decision, that I want cut that person out. I don't like to loose people who have made the long road to get close to me, but once a relationship/friendship turns in a way where it can't be helped to the better anymore, and the contact is constantly hurting me, I have to fight inside my feelings for that person as well as my strong selfprotection-feelings. And when selfprotection wins in the end, then all goes numb, because the emotional conflict can go for quite a time and at some point one is really exhausted. when I am at the point to cut, I will as you described it, never have the same feelings or approach to that person, even when in the past one had been very close. It is somehow, as if something is dying inside you or burns to ash, and one could never get it to life again, regardless if that person tries later to make amends. Once over the cut stage - its forever. I cannot even hold loose contact then, it would feel like a fake, I just drift away.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
390 Posts
Whew! Don't even know where to begin to try to capture my thoughts. I had my counseling session on yesterday and the therapist put a word to something I tend to do...Anesthetizing. When I first describe that I go thru a process when I cut people out of my life I care about she thought I did it with drugs, alcohol, etc. But, I don't it's all mind games of sorts I play with myself when I no longer want to care/have feelings for someone else because I want to cut them out of my life and/or push them away.

Or, if feelings get to be unbearable for me and/or I don't want to deal with them I tend to do it then as well. I can basically numb myself to the point where I don't feel anything....when I decide to do this as I explained to the therapist it usually stays that way...I typically don't ever revert back to relating to the person the same way again or I don't ever let them back into my life.

This may be a 'me' thing and have absolutely nothing to do with personality behavioral patterns....however I was just curious if anyone related to doing something similar.
Interesting... so do you agree with the therapist calling it anesthetizing when she thought you do it with substances?

Yes, I do this too. Let me give a little context by quoting Maitri from Spiritual Dimensions

The toughness that an Eight develops as compensation for his lack of contact with real strength is like tough armor blanketing his soul. He tries to protect his heart by rejecting all emotions that he considers weak: fear, sadness, shame, remorse, neediness, helplessness, vulnerability, longing and so on. Unfortunately you cannot close your heart to one set of emotions and not to all others, so he also shuts out his capacity to experience innocent joy, ... has unconsciously made the decision that such protection is worth the price
then she quotes Karen Horney

The choking off of tender feelings, starting in childhood and described as the hardening process, is necessitated by the actions and attitudes of other people and is meant to protect him against others. The need to make himself insensitive to suffering is greatly reinforced by the vulnerability of his pride and climaxed by his pride in invulnerability. His wish for human warmth and affection .. originally thwarted by the environment and then sacrificed to the need for triumph, is finally frozen by the verdict of his self-hate branding him as unlovable. Thus in turning against others he has nothing precious to lose... "...they hate me anyhow, so they should at least be afraid of me".

Moreover healthy self-interest, which otherwise would check vindictive impulses, is kept at a minimum through his utter disregard for his personal welfare. And even the fear of others, though operating to some extent, is held down by his pride in invulnerability and immunity.
I cut people off because they're starting to mess with my "hardening process". Either they have hurt me or make me feel tender: they make me feel emotions I don't want to feel. They're messing with my "pride in invulnerability" (they may know that I'm not invulnerable and that's unacceptable).

If I cut them off now, it's like cutting off my fingers so that I won't be hurt later by my attachment to them :) For example you can't feel the pain of burning your fingers because you have no fingers :) Who wants a life time of possible pains coming from those fingers? just cut them off now. But the pain of cutting them off now has to be endured...no pain no glory/triumph :) to do that you need the "utter disregard for his personal welfare" But if I harden/numb myself enough I can deal with this pain. Bridge burning/finger cutting becomes routine.

Of course cutting people off or snubbing them poses some risks like Horney stated. A normal person would be a little weary about disrespecting someone by silence/non-acknowledgment, eps. if it's a big dude :) But it would tremendously satisfy my "pride in invulnerability" like "yeah, I can do this to you because I'm my own man" A perverse sense of satisfaction replaces feeling good from a genuine connection. I can get drunk on it too.


Back to Maitri
This very act of trying to protect himself ends up cutting him off from himself, and in this lies the irony of an Eight's defenses. Toughening himself and rejecting his soft emotions make him lose the very sensitivity that gives him access and makes him transparent to his soul's interior nature, Essence. What began as an attempt to protect his soul ends up sealing him off from its inner truth. He loses touch with what gives his soul vitality and aliveness and is left with a feeling of deadness within
Letting them back would invoke those tender feelings and again mess with my "pride in invulnerability". If I do, it has to be very slowly and the person would have to be very neutral about. Any perceived gloating on their part and the deal is off :)

But it sucks if you keep cutting off your fingers. You won't have anything to feel with. I remember if I've been through a tough time, I forget what brings me joy, what I love to do, even who I am... because of the hardening process.
 

·
MOTM Jan 2014
Joined
·
11,128 Posts
I cut people off because they're starting to mess with my "hardening process". Either they have hurt me or make me feel tender: they make me feel emotions I don't want to feel. They're messing with my "pride in invulnerability" (they may know that I'm not invulnerable and that's unacceptable).

Letting them back would invoke those tender feelings and again mess with my "pride in invulnerability". If I do, it has to be very slowly and the person would have to be very neutral about. Any perceived gloating on their part and the deal is off :)
I walked away from my best friend because of this. Out of anyone in the world he knew me best; he alone knew my vulnerabilities when my armor was thickest. After ten years of being close, I walked away. It's been ten years since then. He kept trying to save it but I imagine he felt like he was punching a brick wall - finally he shut off to me. For the last two or three years my emotions finally caught up to me, and I've been beating myself up for what I did. I'm going to try to fix it but I need to sort myself out before I am ready. At this point I don't even know what to say.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,299 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Interesting... so do you agree with the therapist calling it anesthetizing when she thought you do it with substances?

Yes, I do this too. Let me give a little context by quoting Maitri from Spiritual Dimensions



then she quotes Karen Horney



I cut people off because they're starting to mess with my "hardening process". Either they have hurt me or make me feel tender: they make me feel emotions I don't want to feel. They're messing with my "pride in invulnerability" (they may know that I'm not invulnerable and that's unacceptable).

If I cut them off now, it's like cutting off my fingers so that I won't be hurt later by my attachment to them :) For example you can't feel the pain of burning your fingers because you have no fingers :) Who wants a life time of possible pains coming from those fingers? just cut them off now. But the pain of cutting them off now has to be endured...no pain no glory/triumph :) to do that you need the "utter disregard for his personal welfare" But if I harden/numb myself enough I can deal with this pain. Bridge burning/finger cutting becomes routine.

Of course cutting people off or snubbing them poses some risks like Horney stated. A normal person would be a little weary about disrespecting someone by silence/non-acknowledgment, eps. if it's a big dude :) But it would tremendously satisfy my "pride in invulnerability" like "yeah, I can do this to you because I'm my own man" A perverse sense of satisfaction replaces feeling good from a genuine connection. I can get drunk on it too.


Back to Maitri


Letting them back would invoke those tender feelings and again mess with my "pride in invulnerability". If I do, it has to be very slowly and the person would have to be very neutral about. Any perceived gloating on their part and the deal is off :)

But it sucks if you keep cutting off your fingers. You won't have anything to feel with. I remember if I've been through a tough time, I forget what brings me joy, what I love to do, even who I am... because of the hardening process.
Thank you for this!!! When she asked me what do I use to anesthetize...I was like huh? Then she played back what I said about my cutting and numbing process...I thought it was rather interesting she thought I did it with substances. I told her no I won't even drink alcohol when upset because I would never want to risk being at the mercy of any substance. I related to her use of the word in the context that the end result is that I am numb and rendered without feeling.

Interestingly enough, I was sharing with a friend last week about my doing this and that I was about do it with someone who I was recently hurt really bad by and I said to her the only bad thing was that if I did it ...it would be across the board. I find even though one person is the target I find myself hardening towards the world at large. Not only hardening but to some degree antagonistic toward the world as well until I have successfully completed the process. After that I can reconnect with others with the exception of the original target.

I hope this makes sense...I find it hard to find the words to share this side of myself. But, thanks as usual you have given much to consider. Quick question...does the book you recommended to me help to deal with avoiding doing this...I have to be honest ...I really don't like myself when I do this crap...because on some level I cut me off from myself too. I hope that makes sense.
 

·
Grumpy old bastard
Joined
·
10,085 Posts
I walked away from my best friend because of this. Out of anyone in the world he knew me best; he alone knew my vulnerabilities when my armor was thickest. After ten years of being close, I walked away. It's been ten years since then. He kept trying to save it but I imagine he felt like he was punching a brick wall - finally he shut off to me. For the last two or three years my emotions finally caught up to me, and I've been beating myself up for what I did. I'm going to try to fix it but I need to sort myself out before I am ready. At this point I don't even know what to say.
Tell him you are sorry. That simple.

I relate to everything in this thread. never thought it was part of being 8/7. thought it was being entp, or at least NT.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Harpyja and Animal

·
MOTM Jan 2014
Joined
·
11,128 Posts
Tell him you are sorry. That simple.
=)

You'd be amazed how much effort it will require for me to even bring it up. I'm normally very direct, straight forward and would prefer confrontation and things being in the open. This is harder for some reason. Well there are many reasons. But I won't bore you with the novel. I need to look at it this way; it really is that simple, in the end.

I relate to everything in this thread. never thought it was part of being 8/7. thought it was being entp, or at least NT.
I think of MBTI as the "How" and enneagram as the "Why"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
390 Posts
I hope this makes sense...I find it hard to find the words to share this side of myself. But, thanks as usual you have given much to consider. Quick question...does the book you recommended to me help to deal with avoiding doing this...I have to be honest ...I really don't like myself when I do this crap...because on some level I cut me off from myself too. I hope that makes sense.
if you get what Almaas is trying convey: the big picture perspective, it will definitely soften your ego boundary and lessen the hardening process. The rigidity/hardening is also mentioned by Maitri in Passions & Virtues. Basically it's the survival fear that causes this hardening/rigidity.

This boundary/rigidity mentioned by Maitri is real. I can actually feel it now in my daily living. It's like something is supposed to "flow" from you to and from the outside world/people. The hardening causes it to solidify and no flow causes stagnation (or in Horney's word: frozen). It's like a pond with nothing flowing in or out, pretty soon, you'll have fishes dying and stinking up, the whole place becomes toxic. A healthy person is like a river: stuff has to flow in an out. You have to give and receive love to be normal. And just like a stagnated pond, even when there are channels to flow in, there is no flow if there are no channels to flow out. So if you're stagnated, start giving love, and the flow will start again. I'm serious, this is not hocus-pocus. The best therapy for anyone in any position is start giving.

Almaas really drives home this point: you are a branch in the river of life. You are connected to the Universe, to your Source. Once you see this the ego boundary lessens and you're starting to feel the connection again. The first and most immediate connection is your connection to life: your every breath is a miracle, this life force comes from somewhere, not from you because you don't understand how it works. It comes from your Source. Which means the Universe has been providing for you up to this point and will continue to do so. So that you can relax and move away from the ego perspective that you must fend for yourself, fight for your honor, for your reputation, show that you're "hard", ect

As mentioned earlier, I feel this rigidity vs flow in my daily life. If something triggers me to feel angry and defensive, the world becomes so hard. I feel more "individualized" like I stick out like a sore thumb and the rest of the world now has its attention on me. Then I start fighting, expect uncooperation, expect all requests to be turned down, expect delay, start lashing out at people. But if I stop and start to feel my breath again, I start to feel the connection again. Then I can feel the energy in the room, how people are affected by my energy, how connected I am. Then everything becomes soft and the world doesn't seem like it's paying any hostile attention to me. It's quite dramatic.

It's long winded but I know Eights tend to be skeptical. This is real. I deal with this everyday. I feel it every day.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,299 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
As mentioned earlier, I feel this rigidity vs flow in my daily life. If something triggers me to feel angry and defensive, the world becomes so hard. I feel more "individualized" like I stick out like a sore thumb and the rest of the world now has its attention on me. Then I start fighting, expect uncooperation, expect all requests to be turned down, expect delay, start lashing out at people. But if I stop and start to feel my breath again, I start to feel the connection again. Then I can feel the energy in the room, how people are affected by my energy, how connected I am. Then everything becomes soft and the world doesn't seem like it's paying any hostile attention to me. It's quite dramatic.

It's long winded but I know Eights tend to be skeptical. This is real. I deal with this everyday. I feel it every day.
Golden...I understand.....this helps a lot going to go order the book now. Thanks dfoster for taking the time to share your experiences and what you have learned. This really really helps me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,299 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Animal, let me know what you find in Facets of Unity. I want everyone to know about it :)
EXCELLENT EXCELLENT BOOK!! The introduction and first chapter was a little choppy and challenging to get through but I am loving chapter 2...am looking forward to reading the rest of the book. Thanks again for letting me know about the book. :happy:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
390 Posts
if you get what Almaas is trying convey: the big picture perspective, it will definitely soften your ego boundary and lessen the hardening process. The rigidity/hardening is also mentioned by Maitri in Passions & Virtues. Basically it's the survival fear that causes this hardening/rigidity.

As mentioned earlier, I feel this rigidity vs flow in my daily life. If something triggers me to feel angry and defensive, the world becomes so hard. I feel more "individualized" like I stick out like a sore thumb and the rest of the world now has its attention on me. Then I start fighting, expect uncooperation, expect all requests to be turned down, expect delay, start lashing out at people. But if I stop and start to feel my breath again, I start to feel the connection again. Then I can feel the energy in the room, how people are affected by my energy, how connected I am. Then everything becomes soft and the world doesn't seem like it's paying any hostile attention to me. It's quite dramatic.
when you lessen the ego boundary, you don't become oblivious to pains and fears but the perceived pains and fears greatly diminish, it's like they lose their significance. Many becomes merely discomforts or annoyances that can be ignored.

The magnitude of perceived pains are fears are inversely proportional to how connected you feel to the world.

For example, I came home the other day and saw this strange car partially blocking my driveway. I'd never seen it before. I was annoyed. But when I learned that it belonged to an old friend of the neighbor's who was new in town, the annoyance diminished greatly. The "offense" was still the same, but the "threats" it represented were no longer there. Before, I thought I had no connection to the driver, now I knew I did. I never met the driver and still haven't, all I needed was knowing the connection. I learned later that he was an older man and had troubles getting around.

Now imagine if you could see that in everyone, even strangers. Imagine that everyone went through the same crap you did, like someone cutting you off on the freeway because he was in a similar situation you did when you cut someone else off on the road. You felt justified then because of your situation. You don't even need the actual facts, just imagine, you feel the connection because you know humans have the same limitations, the same faults. The anger is now diminished because of the connection.

The more connected you feel the less you act out impulsively in fear, anger and judgement.
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top