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Anti-Intellectualism and Black America

6K views 62 replies 16 participants last post by  Versatile Leader 
#1 ·
As an "African-american" (I hate using that term, but that's too long to go into now), I have always noticed the rampant disdain, no, hate of independent thought and intellectual pursuits. Personally, I have been rebuked on numerous occasions for my offenses such as: playing tennis (" that's a white sport"), renouncing organized religion, and most laughably, for speaking and using proper English (talking "white"; I'm sorry, but "axe" != "ask"). Growing up this was a huge blow to my self-esteem, but now I see it for what it is: anti-intellectualism in the black community.

My girlfriend and I had a long talk on the subject, ranging from how I couldn't take hip-hop as a genre seriously until I was 13 (when I found artists that really were masters of the art form and who rapped about things that mattered), to how "we" are doing little to change the popular perception of the race (see: Tyler Perry's œuvre; we actually discussed the possibility that maybe he is fully aware of his movie's effect, and, with the money that consumers/TBS throw at him, that he is laughing his way to the bank), and how if black America hadn't been so easily swayed by race, Obama might not be in office (not anything against him; I have no opinion yet on his tenure as the head-of-state).

Anyone else notice this, or am I way off the mark?
 
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#3 ·
That's exactly how I feel...
I think most blacks still feel as if they are victims, victimized by society and circumstances they had before. It's like a lot of us say "Well I had to go through this and this so I'm gonna act like this because I'm angry because my people say it's alright" Not to mention the pressure from fellow blacks. The thing is though, we aren't really victims anymore. Yea a lot of us still get stuck with shitty circumstances, but the resources are out there to help us out. We can go out and get a job and go to college just like the next person and we don't gotta worry that we won't get this or that because of our race. We can choose our own paths now, we're free. Maybe racism and all that isn't gone 100%, but I'd say at least a good 90%.

Then though, a lot of our people are still stuck in endless cycles of hate, and it is hard to break those cycles especially when it's the whole family and community. It's hard for a black kid to have grown up with horrible circumstances to realize that he isn't what his past is and who he knows, but can choose his own life for himself. I got hope though eventually anti-intellectualism will just be a thing in the past, another hurdle blacks will have faced.
 
#4 ·
Growing up (East side of Cleveland) those who were black but did not talk in a ghetto accent were often berated. Hell, I was white and people wondered why I didn't talk "ghetto".. but that wasn't the point. The girl was also berated for going to college, as if she was "selling" out. Growing up, it also didn't help to see rap music set people's priorities.
 
#5 ·
What makes the black accent "ghetto"? Is the white accent the "proper" way to verbalize English? I have an accent, I suppress it's heaviness now and then so people can understand me better who don't have it, but it's not like I have it because I want to, it's just how I am... just like the way you talk is just how you are.

Sorry, but I just hate the fact the word ghetto is grouped with black in America so much... it bothers me. Although it only proves the topic more...
 
#6 ·
Another problem of mine: all my life growing up I'd been brainwashed (maybe too strong a term) by my mother telling me that I'd "have it harder" and that "when people look at [me], all they see is a colour." I realize that racism is still present in American society, but it's not as rampant as people'd like to think. However, my mother never seemed to acknowledge the fact that I am of mixed race, and that I am not "black". Everyone on the black side of my family always chided me for "listening to white music," and tried to find black role models for me to look up to. My mother was and still is mad at me for turning down a "Historically Black College".
 
#8 · (Edited)
Like One of the Black Stars said 'I'm a victim of Four Hundred years of conditioning, even my conditioning has been conditioned'

This issue doesnt begin and end with 'African Americans' it's in every Human society. Humans are prone to imitate.
Besides I don't think you guys are being fair. Things like this only reinforce the stereotypes 'African Americans' have.

I may not fully understand the deal with you guys, but I think its time for you guys who have 'opened eyes' to just carry on. How would things ever change if you keep segregating yourselves also. I never knew 'African Americans' were a race btw
 
#12 ·
Like One of the Black Stars said 'I'm a victim of Four Hundred years of conditioning, even my conditioning has been conditioned'

This issue does begin and end with 'African Americans' it's in every Human society. Humans are prone to imitate.
Besides I don't think you guys are being fair. Things like this only reinforce the stereotypes 'African Americans' have.

I may not fully understand the deal with you guys, but I think its time for you guys who have 'opened eyes' to just carry on. How would things ever change if you keep segregating yourselves also. I never knew 'African Americans' were a race btw


Race is a social construct used by those in power to manipulate and separate groups of people for greater control. As you can see, it is working quite well, as it has been since 1676 (Bacon's Rebellion, when the fears of middle class and slave uprisings were realized). Race only exists because we allow it to exist, and unfortunately it will continue on existing until people are educated in the matter.
 
#17 ·
I got into this subject a bit at university. One of the books I read described a theory that blacks see the system as something that was created without their interests in mind (it was). Most did not want to join the system and devalue the one thing that they had owned themselves which is black culture and to an extent blackness itself. Therefore, many blacks still feel as though they should reject american "wihite" cultural values because even if they began to assimilate, they would always be subordinates within it.
 
#20 ·
I'm not forsaking "my culture". I fucking love hip-hop.

dead prez aren't the best to quote:

dead prez, "They Schools":
They schools can't teach us shit
My people need freedom, we tryin to get all we can get
All my high school teachers can suck my dick
Tellin me white man lies straight bullshit
But I'm all about Mos Def.

Mos Def, "Mathematics":
Stiffer stipulations attached to each sentence
Budget cutbacks but increased police presence
And even if you get out of prison still livin
join the other five million under state supervision
This is business, no faces just lines and statistics
from your phone, your zip code, to S-S-I digits
The system break man child and women into figures
Two columns for who is, and who ain't ******
Numbers is hardly real and they never have feelings
but you push too hard, even numbers got limits
Why did one straw break the camel's back? Here's the secret:
the million other straws underneath it - it's all mathematics
Or some Nas.

Nas, "One Love":
Sometimes I sit back with a Buddha sack
Mind's in another world thinking how can we exist through the facts
Written in school text books, bibles, et cetera
Fuck a school lecture, the lies get me vexed-er
The thread is not about hip-hop.
 
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#22 ·
Dead Prez are the perfect people to quote, but you should understand who it is these rappers are talking about and who it is they are talking to and what exactly they are saying.

I suggest you go get that album and listen to it with a little less ego.

Listen very closely.

Like DMX said "If you think you know then I don't think you know"

and Hip Hop is not a culture, it isn't. It's an art form that expresses itself in a larger culture i.e Black Culture.
Stop picking out what you want to hear.

"But you don't hear me though" -Biggie Smalls.
"They listen but they don't hear" -Common
 
#23 ·
How about this, examine the personal lives of your personal idols.

If you succeed in whatever you are trying to achieve your personal life will be very similar.
 
#25 ·
So, back on topic... I notice this as well, but also in "white America." I don't understand it, but it's like its a trend and the latest craze for some priviliged white kids to "talk street" and fail out of college... I just see them as posing losers who don't care if they shame their families.

Point of me being on this post is, I'd like to know if there is a solution. There is a church group here that goes into this city called Belle Glade and ministers to urban youth. It is a very poor city and there is a high AIDS population there as well. So, if someone like me- a pretty, well-spoken white girl were to go there, would I make an impact? I love children, but I just don't feel like the older ones would respect me because I'm almost the complete opposite of what they see every day. That and I'm not going to lie, I'm scared. I don't even listen to rap music, so I'm not up on the lingo...

Does a once a week church group really impact those kids' lives? I don't know. Any insight?
 
#26 ·
You won't make much impact, but you might make some.
I suggest you go for your own edification.
Be humble.
Ask questions.
 
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#29 ·
I'm sorry, do you know someone who doesn't have preconceptions? I'm sorry for observing the world and aggreeing that I see that there is some substance to what the OP is saying, then pointing out the fact that my lifestyle is obviously different than someone elses.

My motive for posting here was clearly made. I would like to find a way to help. Or is that racist of me?
 
#30 ·
Yes we all have pre-conceptions, but letting that cloud your mind is where the real problem lies. If it's so bad, you can also make an impact from the comfort of your home.

<<I don't understand how your prettiness has to do with anything for example, you may not even be pretty in their eyes>>
 
#31 ·
I foresee a girl-fight.

I'd like to see a naked-baby-oil cage match.

Hold on, I need to get my popcorn and jergens.
 
#32 ·
Again, I fail to see how preconceptions are a problem. Especially since I'm an ESTJ, where I try to see the world for what it is and then trying to make it better. You are clearly getting emotional about this whole thread. No one was making an attack on you. The OP made an observation, based on fact, and your spin on the entire thread has taken it down a completely different path.

And BTW, I was stereotyping in my descreption of myself. I really don't care who thinks I'm pretty or not.
 
#35 ·
Boy am I glad to hear that!, couldn't quite discern 'sarcasm' out of your first post and no I'm not getting emotional, Miss Sensor. And where did the talk of an 'attack' come from???

Pray tell what path I've taken this entire thread down, if anything you have tried to shine the spotlight on you
and your 'Wanna save the world one Aids-ridden community at a time' self.

and No..you only failed to read properly.:mellow:
 
#39 ·
Going back to the OP...

I know it's probably stupid to use a Chris Rock bit to discuss an issue like this, but it was one of the first things that popped into my mind:





(The main part I'm thinking of starts around the 2:55 mark).


Now, I'm not well versed enough in black history and slavery to say how much truth there is to any of the bit. But for the sake speculation, I'm going to temporarily assume it's true in this post.

It got me thinking about the whole type thing....has there ever been any study on how type varies from race to race in the US? If there's any truth to the Chris Rock bit, would it be possible that due to this "breeding" of slaves, that the percentage of N's, T's, or NT's is smaller among the black population in the US? Is it possible that this could have some impact on this anti-intellectualism that was mentioned?

Of course, I'm sure that in some way, shape, or form, the lack of equal education up until the Civil Rights movement has probably had some impact on the current culture as well. One would hope that after 45 years or so there would be less of this "anti-intellectualism", but the whole aspect of culture, urban history, political motivations/conspiracies, access to resources/education (or lack thereof), and socio-economic class differences all impact the whole situation making it extremely complex, at least for a little SF like me. :wink:
 
#40 ·
Going back to the OP...

I know it's probably stupid to use a Chris Rock bit to discuss an issue like this, but it was one of the first things that popped into my mind:

YouTube - Chris Rock about black slaves



(The main part I'm thinking of starts around the 2:55 mark).


Now, I'm not well versed enough in black history and slavery to say how much truth there is to any of the bit. But for the sake speculation, I'm going to temporarily assume it's true in this post.

It got me thinking about the whole type thing....has there ever been any study on how type varies from race to race in the US? If there's any truth to the Chris Rock bit, would it be possible that due to this "breeding" of slaves, that the percentage of N's, T's, or NT's is smaller among the black population in the US? Is it possible that this could have some impact on this anti-intellectualism that was mentioned?

Of course, I'm sure that in some way, shape, or form, the lack of equal education up until the Civil Rights movement has probably had some impact on the current culture as well. One would hope that after 45 years or so there would be less of this "anti-intellectualism", but the whole aspect of culture, urban history, political motivations/conspiracies, access to resources/education (or lack thereof), and socio-economic class differences all impact the whole situation making it extremely complex, at least for a little SF like me. :wink:
What Chris Rock says is somewhat true, there was legislation passed in the New England colonies after Cato's Rebellion which made it illegal for anyone to teach slaves to read. There were also laws stating that a master could kill a slave without repercussion so long as it was on his own property. The reason Cato's rebellion is significant is because the slave, Cato, was traded from the Portuguese, who operated under Code Noir for slave trade. Code Noir maintained a slaves dignity and allowed for voluntary manumission if the slave could earn enough money to buy his own freedom. It also allowed slaves one day a week, besides Sunday, to work for himself or whatever else he wanted. So a lot of slaves taught themselves to read for work so they could eventually buy their own freedom. Cato was fluent in both Spanish and Portuguese and was extremely intelligent and literate and lead 100 slaves to kill 30 colonists in South Carolina because the slave laws within the British colonies were brutal compared to the Spanish, French, and Portuguese. He knew there was another way, the British colonies saw intelligence as a threat and took matters into their own hands.

The catholic colonies were another story, you had many a free African within Louisiana and Florida. The Treme neighborhood in New Orleans is the very first free black community in the US and it was established in 1783. So in certain areas the idea that the intelligent were killed off and therefore genetically there are very few left could be true. But certainly not for all of the US. And that is only assuming that personality type and intelligence are genetic, which is questionable.

I think the biggest factor here is the lack of equal education prior to the civil rights movement, and the negative impact the civil rights movement had on the images of all sides involved. Let's be honest, many people still have a bad taste in their mouth from it. Some people can't let things go.
 
#44 · (Edited)
WOW, thank you so much for speaking up. I am a white man, and I have been in a relationship with a black woman for 3 years. She is the LOVE of my life, and she has experienced a backlash like you wouldn't believe from the "black community" (hate saying that word like you hate saying 'african american'). Where do I begin....there's almost too much to say. Here it goes...

My girlfriend was ostracized from her family growing up for "talking white", listening to rock music, and taking an interest in school. Friends and family would tease her and put her down and say she was trying to act white. She actually has nothing to do with her family now because they are so ignorant and hateful. She is an indivudual who thinks for herself, and it is so upsetting to hear and see how other Blacks treat her. We are both conservative republicans, and we both voted for Mccain. She gave a speech in her college class about being a conservative and how the welfare state has created a culture of dependance in the black community. In the middle of class, a black woman stood up and yelled at her. After class, as my girlfriend was walking to her next class, a group of black women made fun of her and said she was trying to be white.

We have been heckled walking down the street in nearby cities by black men who say "go back to black!". We can't go into certain neighborhoods now that have high population of low income blacks because we are so afraid of getting harassed for being in an interracial relationship.

Personally, I wish this country would get past race and achieve the colorblind society that MLK dreamed of. Race is such a primitive idea and the whole concept needs to be done away with. It seems as if the civil rights movement was highjacked by payback racists like Sharpton and Jackson. There is such a large groupthink mentality among black Americans found little where else in the world. There are black student unions, churches, clubs, congressional caucuses, BET, etc. all because of white guilt and individuals who are too afraid to stand up and call them what they are: racially seperatist. These clubs do not unite the races, they divide them. We are all of one race: the human race. Double standards in this country have created a culture where blacks can "bond together" and have their own culture, while their mentaity is inherently racist. The idea that people are the same because of skin color is the same argument used by slaveholders, and it is a twisted irony how so many black americans still hold on to that primitive idea. No one can change America's past of racism and slavery, but the solution is not to have blacks practice payback racism and racial seperatism. Back to my girlfriend:

Recently, my girlfriend and I were watching ABC's nightline. A panel of black americans and a black audience were talking about the epidemic of single women in the black community. One woman on stage said that "the whites are stealing our men away". The audience of hundreds rose up and cheered. It made my girlfriend and I sick. If this was a white crowd and a white group of people on stage, it would be denounced as a racially supremacist and seperatist orginization. There is no such thing as reverse racism. Racism IS racism. There is a large amount of it coming from Black Americans, and everyone else sits around and watches it.

HERES THE WORST EXAMPLE THOUGH: My girlfriend was coming home on the train, sitting by herself, and a young black man selling rap CD's asked if she wanted one. She politely said "no thank you". He then told her loudly for the whole train to hear "you have been hanging out with too many crackers!". A full train of people didn't say anything. In fact, a black woman called him over, not to tell him that what he said was racist and offensive, but to ask him if she could buy a CD. If this was reversed, and a white man was selling CDs of some stereotypical white music (if there is such a thing), and he went up to a black guy and he said "no thank you", and the white guy said "you have been hanging out with too many n-words" the train would have errupted, garunteed.

I completely agree with your original post. There is a groupthink, victomologist, separatist mentality among Black americans today. 96% of Blacks voted for Obama., and 90% vote democrat every election (the party of slavery, jim crow, anti-civil rights act, and policies that focus on race). I know race played a big role in the election for blacks, which is very sad. What's worse is how blacks treat other blacks who think on there own and don't kowtow to stereotypical black culture. This is in my opinon, one of America's biggest tragedies. MLK is spinning in his grave. I could go on and on and on, but I will stop, I think you get the picture. Again, thank you so much for being an individual and standing up for yourself. My girlfriend read your post and thought it was great, as did I. You are certainly not alone my friend.
 
#45 ·
I am a minority and I acknowledge "reverse racism". The use of the term reverse racism is redundant because any type of "stereotyping by race" is already racism, which includes black on white or white on black.

There are individual thinkers out there. I'm glad you're not jaded over the CD event. Stay human.
 
#46 ·
I ultimately am afraid of being called the "R" word; however, you make some very good points. A black woman at my old office once proclaimed, "I don't know how to read them circle clocks," to one of her black cohorts who consoled her and told her it wasn't that big of an issue, and while I know it's insensitive of me, I definitely was thinking, "Probably an affirmative action hire right there."

I for the life of me cannot understand how a culture (African Americans) can eschew the betterment of themselves just in the name of some racial pride. If blacks --forgive me if off base here-- don't want to climb up what they perceive to be a 'white system' with a 'white language' because it would make them uncle toms then why would they rather live in the ghettos dealing drugs finding themselves in the 'white man's' jail? It doesn't make much sense to me. Why can't you be proud of your race while succeeding? The two are not mutually exclusive to one another. If the problem is that it's a 'white system' then get in there and influence it. If there were more blacks in the office I know I'd wind up adopting some ebonics phrases and it would be absolutely hilarious because I am just so horribly and awfully white, I'm like translucent, that's how white I am.

Sorry if my post is offensive to anyone. I did make some racial assumptions in posting that could be deemed obtuse and offensive. But I assure you I know that race doesn't necessarily confine someone to one specific fate/culture/personality and meant no offense.
 
#47 ·
The cold reality is that white people don't want black people amongst them.
They want black people who have adopted white values and ways.
Views, Habits, Styles, Ways of speaking and carrying oneself that is acceptable in the black community are automatically deemed as bad.
In order to accept mainstream white culture one has to abandon their own culture and that goes for any minority whether typological or having to do with skin color.

In order to fit in with one group you have to sell-out the other.

That's a fact.
 
#48 ·
Hadn't thought about it like that before.. However, look at people brought over from India to program computers, do they stick around the impoverished neighborhoods of India out of a sense of pride? I still think you can dress business professional and also adorn your own unique pieces of flare. I imagine the people from India don't suddenly switch to Christianity once they come here.
 
#57 ·
Stop being derogatory of "your people" do you honestly believe white people think for themselves?
People are people, they can only be judged within the context of their existence.
Which is to say they all suck, humanity is a big pile of dog doo-doo with one or two kernels of decent corn.
Get your head right, you get nothing by being condescending towards your people when in reality you have little grasp of people on a whole.
 
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