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- Marilyn Manson (he actually attended an R&H seminar and they confirmed it!)
- Edgar Allan Poe
- Quasimodo from The Hunchback of Notre Dame
- Edward Scissorhands
@karmachameleon
Lana del Rey is a 2
Are those 4w5 or 4w3? Also, how do you type them--what qualities do they exhibit to help you decipher their social variant (besides MM, since he was officially confirmed)? Like, if I was trying to type someone IRL, would I be able to know if they are 4w5 so/sp, or would they need to take the test? What qualities would I look for?
 

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I'm also a social 4w5. probably so/sx.
I am concerned with image and social status, and I do feel like an actor in social situations. Even though I am pretty honest and authentic most of the time, that's just how I feel.
I am kind of 3ish in that I am very concerned with how I am perceived, and that I often say stuff just to get positive feedback from people, but generally I am pretty shy and quiet. I have a very strong 5 wing, no one would think that I have a 3wing, not in a thousand years. :D
 

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Are those 4w5 or 4w3? Also, how do you type them--what qualities do they exhibit to help you decipher their social variant (besides MM, since he was officially confirmed)? Like, if I was trying to type someone IRL, would I be able to know if they are 4w5 so/sp, or would they need to take the test? What qualities would I look for?
Quasimodo and Poe are So/Sp imo
 

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I'm surprised at the so/sp INFPs here. I thought that stack was rare among INFPs

I'm a 4w5 so/sp
Identifying- all that is social four, and look at how invested they are in humanity. What's wrong with people? Society? What can be done to change things? How did humans end up like this? Are we inherently going to fight and hurt each other? Is a better world actually possible?

My understanding of so/sx is they can have similar concerns as so/sp but are less confident speaking in the realm of so/sp because they need people more and don't handle being disliked as well.
 

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4 Sx/Sp is VERY different from 4 So/Sp.

Social 4 is more 6-ish. they struggle with feelings of shame/worthlessness. they are the ugly ducklings of the Enneagram, torn between taking pride in their uniqueness and suffering and wanting to be accepted and loved by others.

Sexual 4 is more egocentric, flamboyant and has an heir of "ha! I'm superior to you Philistines". if the Social 4 resembles 6, the Sexual 4 resembles 8w7 and 7w8. when angry, they tend to be more stormy, vicious and dramatic as opposed to sensitive and delicate like the Social 4.
I've seen you say Self-Pres 4s are 9-ish, right? Can you say why you think that is like you do for the other instinctual types here?
 

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I've seen you say Self-Pres 4s are 9-ish, right? Can you say why you think that is like you do for the other instinctual types here?
they're 9-ish because they suffer in silence: "this is my cross to bear. I don't want to inconvenience anyone else". this is a more self-forgetting 4 compared to Social or (esp) Sexual 4s (Sexual 4 is a very ego-centric type)
 

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Are those 4w5 or 4w3? Also, how do you type them--what qualities do they exhibit to help you decipher their social variant (besides MM, since he was officially confirmed)? Like, if I was trying to type someone IRL, would I be able to know if they are 4w5 so/sp, or would they need to take the test? What qualities would I look for?
Marilyn Manson is 4w5, idk what those other are. Lana del Rey is 4w3
 

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I'm a 4w5 so/sp. I thought I was sp-first, but as it turns out I seem particularly fixated on my flaws. I've struggled with the ugly duckling syndrome my whole life-- the only difference being that I didn't develop into a beautiful swan in my adult years (contrary to the fairy tale).
 

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revision of how to spot a so/sp four
- Identify someone as a social four
- are they sx last or sp last?

sp blind = life has no meaning because we're all going to die. continues to cling to others anyway because they aren't confident in taking care of themselves

sx blind = hates because of their inability to connect to people as deeply as they want
 

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revision of how to spot a so/sp four
- Identify someone as a social four
- are they sx last or sp last?

sp blind = life has no meaning because we're all going to die. continues to cling to others anyway because they aren't confident in taking care of themselves

sx blind = hates because of their inability to connect to people as deeply as they want
Okay, I guess I'm "sx blind" then, because that's pretty much exactly how I feel. That means I'm a so/sp aswell, I guess.
 

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right here :) if any of you want to ask me questions I'll come back here and answer them. here's something I can say- I'm a lot more comfortable answering people's questions in depth than initiate talking about the things I want to talk about. and I am more comfortable telling people facts and then letting them come up with their own opinion, than just stating my opinion. I'm afraid to make a scratch in the world, but also really wanting to tell people how I feel.

people say the social subtype 4 is a pushover and I'll say I definitely relate to that in the way that I am pretty weak in self expression. I am more comfortable wearing my sister's clothes instead of my own because then there is no evidence for who I am because "she chose to buy this, not me". Also a lot of times I'll feel very strongly to a youtube video or a forum and I'll type out a huge paragraph for like 30 minutes, and look at it, cringe so hard, and delete it.

I think there are a lot of conflicting things in our personality.
4 (dom)- emotional, self-expressive,
5 - less emotional, less expressive
sx last - less emotional, less expressive

4w5 - doubly reserved
4 - feeling like an outsider
so/sp - contraflow (not towards people, rejecting human condition)
social first - wanting to socialize and be part of the world

4 - wanting deep close relationships
5 - not wanting that
sx last - not wanting that

sorry I dont have the energy to make a huge paragraph explaining what I think about this info ^ Theres just a lot of things that make us really super weird. Like a bunch of things contradict our 4-domness and a bunch of things contradict our withdrawnness.

I used to think I was a v strong 5 wing, and now I see a lot of 3 in me when I socialize and go into sp mode. What I mean is, I'll start sucking at socializing and then my dauntless sp says - "you suck, you will NOT suck, you will try HARDER", and then I start to socialize with 3-ish inauthenticity. but that actually makes it worse. I had to take my time writing this and not force myself so hard to the point where I delete it all.

anywayyyy ask me questions I get more energy to talk when people ask questions. there isn't a lot about this particular stacking so lets start some talking!! I need some more information about this type to feed my brain!
 

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I'm a 4w3 So/Sp. I care tremendously about what others think of me, especially in terms of image and success. Really, everything I do, there is an underlying need for success and positive appraisal. I will say though that artistry, individuality, creativity always comes before success. It's more like the success is the icing on the cake, or the edge to the things I do.

As for my weaker five wing, I can get obsessed with certain things (like MBTI/enneagram). But I don't really have interests that I constantly research and study up on. There are a few areas that I get absorbed in, but I don't feel like I need the information for my well-being... it's more so my interests can bolster my identity.

I don't think I'm very social. I can see a Sx/Sp four being the most social four, ironically.
 

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I'm definitely a social type now, and most likely 4w5 (though i wouldn't rule out 4w3, but i'm not that outgoing as they are). I'm concerned about image a lot, sometimes torn between adhering to what others want or how they want to see me, and how i see myself, or feeling ashamed about my own persons, and overanalyzing how others are going to see me, being ashamed about that, and eventually withdrawing or not participating/engaging at all, but when i do engage, i can be the extravert in the group, though maybe i just know a lot of introverts, and i tend to dominate other introverts and to take the initiative.

I think i'm INFP 4w5; 6w5; 8w9 so/sp right now. I'm least sure about my gut type, since i do not relate to 1, 8 and 9, though maybe most at 8, and it's likely that the 8 might be overcompensated by the 4's desire to withdraw, and in that regard i might be 468, though i can't rule out 9 and 1 entirely, but in terms of tritype i also related best to 468 and on tests the 8 scores higher than 1 and 9 (the 9 even scores often lowest to second lowest). The 4 and 6 score highest, followed by 5, 3 and 8.

This was the last test i've taken



I definitely have the desire to be accepted and to socialize a lot. In my ideal world, i see myself as a succesful extrovert, but i absolutely can't adapt to that ideal world, or be an extrovert. It's just hard for me. I can only be more extraverted among people i actually know well or feel good at. In those cases, i'm the dominant person, or the introverted person just gets more intense, and than you might know the introvert better, while the extroverts might just stay shallow.

Also a lot of times I'll feel very strongly to a youtube video or a forum and I'll type out a huge paragraph for like 30 minutes, and look at it, cringe so hard, and delete it.
I have this too. Sometimes i posted something, and i'm like: WHAT HAVE I DONE? WHAT HAVE I DONE? WHAT HAVE I DONE? Am i just nuts, and i often get immediately ashamed of what i posted. Why did i post such a long text. What are people going to think off me. I have that even more on different forums, where it's harder to stay on-topic.

I also relate very well to this which is the description of 4 so/sp.

This subtype can mimic type One when it comes to social values. They can be harsh critics of the current mores. They have romantic ideals of what the world should be like; reality always falls short. Ironically, this type can be the most withdrawn of the Fours. Social anxiety combines with the Four's shame issues to make this type feel that the pressure associated with "fitting in" is just not worth it. They are also the most likely of the Fours to intellectualize their emotions and in this way resemble type Five.

The social instinct tends to give the personality a focus on being included, fitting in, or finding a way to make a valued contribution. This agenda conflicts with the Four's sense of being "different from" or "other than." The Four's need to establish a separate identity conflicts with the social instinct's drive towards inclusion. The social Four often deals with this dilemma by defining themselves as being outside the social system. By defining themselves always in terms of the system, even if it is to establish distance, this Four stays essentially tied to it. Fours with the social/self-pres stacking tend to acutely feel a sense of social shame at not quite belonging.

When this subtype is reasonably healthy, they are often gifted critics of the prevailing culture. They develop true insight into social dynamics and have an eye for the nuances and subtleties of social interactions. Many Four writers are soc/self.
I'm also involved in politics, far-left politics and member of a political party, though i almost never attend the meetings, and feel sorry for it, and feel even ashamed of it that i'm so worthless for them. I don't think they blame me for anything. I just hope they don't, because it's really hard for me and i really wished i could've done more for them. I'm though very opinionated, and i won't hold my opinion for myself. My opinion shall me known, whether it is on the internet or in real-life, and whether it is going to hurt. I've also the ability especially on the internet to destroy someone or be insanely hard towards them and almost humiliate them, especially if they made me mad / angry, and often i get a surprising amount of people who back me. I've noticed in my life (and this has never changed, and was always be the case), that i'm a very polarizing person, and see a lot of things through the us vs them perspective. I made many enemies in life, but I also made surprisingly (because i don't understand why they do that) a lot of people who also have defended me or sympathized with me.

I have problems to do what people expect from me, and i usually end up disappointing them. I also have trouble keeping friends, sometimes because i withdraw from out of nowhere, forget about them and neglect about them. I might not be the easiest person to deal with, i think. My best friend was angry, and i didn't know why (or actually i knew and feared what was eventually true). I didn't saw him in 6 months, because i simply forgot about him... .

The 468 is constantly calling off truth as they see it and sees it as their business to warn people of the potential downfalls and pitfalls in the emotional and mental world. It's the type in each center that is "truth telling" and tends to be the most reactive, even hyperreactive. She said it's typically sexual subtype, but she's seen social too. There's a tendency to feel an acute sense of disappointment because their incredibly acuity at seeing the problems ahead or the potential pitfalls of any situation causes people to misunderstand their reactivity and emotionality.

If you are 468, you are intuitive, inquisitive and direct. You want to be original, certain and straight-forward. You are highly sensitive, track inconsistencies and are like the ‘canary in the coal mine’ calling off unspoken agendas, motives and emotions. You are also very intense and can at times be rebellious and emotionally reactive. Your life mission is to identify what is insincere and not what it appears to be, and alert others of potential hazards. A whistleblower, you are happiest when you are in a position to help others from being misled. You can be so focused on what can go wrong and on potential hazards that you miss how controlling you become and your impact on others and what is truly important and meaningful.
This is the description of the 468, i can relate to this, though i can be 469 or 461 as well, but i think i often behave like "the truth teller", warning people often for potential pitfalls, and with my social subtype that comes first, often warning about societal pitfalls that encounter us, and trying to do anything (raising awareness to prevent this), and in my belief we have to overthrow the capitalist system in order to save our society and ourselves ("the rebellious part"). I'm often also conflicted between choosing a diplomatic route or not conceding (and staying true to your principles). But i also have frequent doubts about what i do or what i will do, and introspect myself to analyze me decisions or whatever i do or planned to do, frequently not coming to a clear answer, or having a "50 shades of grey" view of the world (instead of black-and-white), but when it comes to ideology, i think i might acknowledge the existence of the "50 shades of grey" view, and that everyone has a different view and that it should be respected, but still i'm quite sure about my ideology, and position myself to the far-left and don't back down. I might ironically warn for the extremes, and be an extreme myself, but I also am not afraid to hurt my own side if i have to, because I feel like "we" have also to stay true to our principles, though sometimes i ignore things because i believe the end justify all means.

I'm also highly ambitious, but i always fail to make them come true. I think i'm very hard for myself as well, and want to be known, established or if i can't do that, that my ideas at least will. I might write some books about my ideas. One book will be fiction but will have non-fiction elements blended in it (like Werner Herzog, a director i really like does), but one other book might be partly non-fiction / idea lecture and partly science, which might be a weird blend as well, but the idea itself can only be written in such a way, and it will be a warning for a possible end of civilization, being caused by our destructive way of living, and how we should be more conservationist and less wasteful about things. Capitalism is all about maximizing the profit, and maximizing the production, while our planet can't sustain such a high production rates. That's why i believe we need to get rid of capitalism in order to stop climate change, save ecosytems and save our own society, and partly why i join far-left politics, though i sometimes lack the motivation to be truly an activist and join meetings and protests, because in reality i'm very much an introvert and have a hard time feeling comfortable around lots of other people i don't know.

I also have lots of desires and talents, and i frequently lack focus to do something with them, or focus on one talent. It's sometimes very exhausting. Currently i'm talented in so many things, and fail in almost anything. I'm interested in so many things that i just can't keep up with anything, while i try to. It's just really hard. I frequently exhaust myself over my own activity, my own desires or what society expects me to do, and a lot of people say they don't care about what society expects them to do, but i do, and i always feel guilty for that, and not worthy of entering the spotlights because of that, because i carry an eternal shame around me (which is the fuel of my social anxiety). It's also so contradicting that social fours might be the most likely ones to be affected to have social anxiety, because we're outstanders that are group oriented.
 

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While I identify with a lot of the social traits, I don't prefer being in a group compared to talking to someone one on one. Anyone else who feels this way?
Yeah I relate to that. There is a lot I relate to in this thread. But also somethings that I don't. And things elsewhere I don't relate to as well. So I'm rather confused about the instinctual variants.
 
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