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I have an ESFP sister and ESFP female roommate and I have a lot of trouble getting along with them! They draw you in with their lively personalities, but at their worst they are petty, hold grudges, are selfish, and are extremely obnoxious. I just wanna yell "sit down some where and shut up for two seconds!!!" sometimes.

My roommate and I got along pretty well at first, but the drama began when her boyfriend (who I'm 99% sure is an infj) and I began to get into intellectual discussions. They both take my differing opinions/theories as either personal attacks or debates when I'm just really trying to have a brainstorming session. Usually after we have one of our "debates" where we can't come to an agreement they go to their room and pout for a while and throw nasty looks at me for the rest of the day (especially the esfp). The part that I find crazy is that I never say anything particularly disrespectful like "that's dumb" or "you're ignorant" but they still take me being outspoken against their beliefs as disrespectful in some sense.

With the esfp whenever I try to spark intellectual discussions or discuss theories (which as an intp is where I thrive) she either seems uninterested, gets frustrated quickly when I think differently or pose an idea she hasn't thought of before, or just completely shuts down. The crazy thing is she is very outspoken/ loud so I don't understand why me speaking up is always a problem to her (does she, as an esfp, think I am taking her shine or attention? Because I really don't want it -_-).

My sister is just extremely reckless and is constantly making the same mistakes, and gets mad at anyone who tries to give her tough love. She always gets mad at me for "judging her" and as a non - judging personality, I'm really just trying to look out for her. It seems like a common thread with esfp's -- I've noticed that they see tough love or constructive criticism as "judgement" or an attack. I notice this problem with esfj's too but for some reason with esfp's I find it more annoying.

Now that I think about it , I have a really close friend who I do love being around that I'm about 80% sure is an esfp, and although I enjoy her company, she got mad at me for being "too critical" a lot. ( I mean, I don't see how suggesting for you to do your homework after crying for an hour about failing a class is "critical", but w/e -_-)

There are the only esfp's I've been forced to live with and/or have been around for a while (most my friends are esfj's , entp's, intj's, and entj's) so I don't want to generalize them all, but are these behaviors that anyone else has experienced? I really want to be able to get along better with this type w/o compromising too much of my personality.
 

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I've got an ESFP friend and an ISFP sister and I've noticed that they both get really, really sensitive whenever I point out fairly obvious truths to them, especially about them or other people. Like if I say something like, "he's fighting with his girlfriend because he doesn't know how to communicate his needs, and believes the only way out is to destroy the entire relationship" they'll get all mad at me and say things like "you're so judgmental." I'm not judgmental. I'm the least judgmental person. They also get really mad when I try to help them understand their emotions.

The ESFP will say something like,
"After reading Tumblr I've realized that my first boyfriend was emotionally abusive. I'm technically an abuse victim."
And I'll ask, "So do you feel any different?"
And then she'll get really huffy and accuse me of "not accepting her story."
Of course, that particular ESFP has a lot of other problems that she likes to deal with by using whatever current source of "victimhood" is available to her to get attention and pity from others.

The ISFP takes everything remotely negative as a personal attack. She was complaining about how no one ever listens to her, and I said, "I think that a lot of introverts operate under the assumption that the world is going to give them their fair chance to speak one day-- it's not. If you don't seize the opportunity to get your word in, people are just gonna go around the circle and pass you by."
And she said "I feel like you're criticizing me."

I understand the feeling of not being able to handle negative criticism, or even constructive criticism-- I'm a Feeler too; I don't like hearing about the flaws in my methods. I feel protective of my methods. But when I'm feeling really negatively about a certain aspect of my life, like if I felt that no one ever listened to me, I'd work extra hard to uncover the underlying reason for that problem so that I could understand it and either accept it or improve it.

I think one possible explanation (and bear with me here, because I think I might start to make less sense as I speculate) might be that SFPs consider their way of life to be a part of who they are-- the way they present themselves is connected or inseparable from how they perceive themselves. Their surroundings contribute more strongly to their happiness than their inner world-- they need to find positivity and beauty in their external world before they can build it in themselves. Things which we (INFPs and INTPs) might not consider to be personal or immutable aspects of personality, such as a person's opinions, thoughts, and actions, are much more important to SFPs. I think our types, when we think about our essential nature, see it more as something like "the well from which all my potential thoughts, opinions, and actions flow from, as defined and predicted by the patterns they form, which are dependent on both the reality and possibility of my choices." Whereas SFPs it's more like, "the sum of all my decisions, opinions, and feelings, defined as it is built by myself and the world, and dependent on the reality and effects of my choices."

My point, if none of that made any sense, is that I think INxPs and xSFPs have dramatically different concepts of what is important and what is personal.


The best way to handle SFPs, if you don't want to upset them or get them pissed at you, is to stick to "fun" topics of conversation. They like it when you react to the things they say, even when it's sort of hard to seem enthusiastic or shocked at things. They live in the moment, and prefer to remain grounded there. They don't like exploring alternates, because it makes them feel like they might be missing out.


Based on the INTPs that I know, I think it would be hard for an INTP and and ESFP to get along, because you guys are like these weird idea-generating computers and they're like sort of random hummingbirds that need a lot of sugar and color to function. The two have very little in common. But if you find ways to coexist, more power to you.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I think one possible explanation (and bear with me here, because I think I might start to make less sense as I speculate) might be that SFPs consider their way of life to be a part of who they are-- the way they present themselves is connected or inseparable from how they perceive themselves. Their surroundings contribute more strongly to their happiness than their inner world-- they need to find positivity and beauty in their external world before they can build it in themselves. Things which we (INFPs and INTPs) might not consider to be personal or immutable aspects of personality, such as a person's opinions, thoughts, and actions, are much more important to SFPs. I think our types, when we think about our essential nature, see it more as something like "the well from which all my potential thoughts, opinions, and actions flow from, as defined and predicted by the patterns they form, which are dependent on both the reality and possibility of my choices." Whereas SFPs it's more like, "the sum of all my decisions, opinions, and feelings, defined as it is built by myself and the world, and dependent on the reality and effects of my choices."
Yeah, we're never going to get along (as far as being close friends / beyond roommates). I totally understand your explanation (and thank you for it!) but I can never, never, understand this. Thoughts don't define who you are because thoughts change over time. Especially OPINION based thoughts. I think that is the main reason why we don't get along super well -- she will get mad over having a different opinion than me, then will play the victim about it and basically manipulate whoever "attacked" her into an apology.

For example: the esfp in question, her best friend (a passive esfj who is also my roommate), and I planned a girls night out. She waits until three hours before to say "I don't know if I'm going to go out because my boyfriend might get mad if I go out without him". Now, her best friend and I get along great so we look at each other like "-_- really" because he was working a late shift anyway so it wasn't like he could go! And her boyfriend, a semi - manipulative infj, is way too controlling of what she does when he's not around (they are literally with each other every day and he always throws a passive- aggressive- tantrum when she wants to do something without him... which is tops once a month). So, out of care for her we say "no you should go, you shouldn't let him make you feel like you can't go out with your friends". Were we a little stern toned? Of course. Because we care(d) about her. She in turn, gets all huffy puffy, whines and says "all relationships are different" then storms out the room to pout. I wanted to scream out "yeah some are controlling and manipulative" but I feel like she would literally poison my cereal if I said that so I left it alone. Two hours later she texts back saying "I just felt really attacked in the kitchen, you guys made me feel bad". I ROLL my eyes hard because shes always playing the damn victim, but apologize anyway because I wanted for us to go out and have fun (we all had a bad week). Like seriously, who gets mad at people looking out for their best interests? Nobody called her bf an asshole. Nobody called her weak. We simply tried to empower her and she got mad at US,not her boyfriend, US.

The victim thing with her, like the friend you mentioned, is way too extreme. And the thing is, she JUMPS INTO intellectual conversations/debates. I noticed she takes offense easily so I usually don't spark them with her, but if her BF or Best Friend are having one with me she'll LOUDLY jump in and say "IM SORRY I DISAGREE BECAUSE XYZ" and if I disagree with her and have an elaborated point that's against hers she'll get all flustered and say something to "mediate the argument" when nobody is mad but her and her boyfriend! And if you know you feel attacked easily, why would you jump in a debate? Its so irritating.

So the goal for the remainder of the lease is to just keep the peace until they move out. Because talking to her about anything else besides in the moment things is literally impossible. (If we have opposing opinions)


Plus her Bf will make passive aggressive remarks about cleanliness to me, when his girlfriend is the main one who constantly leaves dishes in the sink. Le sigh.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I don't know how to help you, I don't know anyone who is so irrational.
Or I'll always start a statement with "I believe" or "in my experience" xyz (if I am making a statement based off of pure opinion). And I get attacked "you're wrong" "that's not true" When I clearly said IN MY EXPERIENCE. But if I were to ever tell them they were wrong, or what they said wasn't true? Especially the esfp... Jesus Christ. I don't think she would talk to me for a week.
 

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people change over time. as do opinions. so how exactly do your opinions (which kinda is your worldview, right) not define you as a person? I'm a little confused.

also, I don't think all SFPs can be lumped together, because people be peopling differently. ya mean?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Maybe I should make this a combo thread. Any INTPs have communication issues with INFJ's as well? How did you overcome them?
 

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people change over time. as do opinions. so how exactly do your opinions (which kinda is your worldview, right) not define you as a person? I'm a little confused.

also, I don't think all SFPs can be lumped together, because people be peopling differently. ya mean?
Because we are constantly evolving, but definitions are constant. If you look up the definition of the word "and" in the dictionary, it is the same definition that has been there for hundreds of years. I think opinions describe our world view, but they do not define us...but then again I don't really believe in the notion of "defining" a person..describing, yes..defining, no..because we are constantly evolving beings. In a few years (from age 18 to 22 now) most of my worldviews have completely changed, so I think it is silly to make a definition of oneself when in 4 years I have changed so much. I've never really been a fan of labels too for this same reason.
(My opinion - not saying this is right, we are all entitled to feel how we feel)
 

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Grew up with a Se-dom sister. Dated 2 ISFPs
I can relate to most of this.

They draw you in with their lively personalities, but at their worst they are petty, hold grudges, are selfish, and are extremely obnoxious. I just wanna yell "sit down some where and shut up for two seconds!!!" sometimes.
Very much so and don't expect that to change. Allies-enemies mentality. Selfish at the expense of others and then gets self-righteous and emo about it. Kinda hypocritical but in their mind it's probably something entirely different..

Vain. Seems to enjoy playing her pretty-girl victim role and getting her way by means of such. But at the same time can be dead serious about it. Even enjoys f--king up and getting easily pardoned/getting away with it/other ppl having to clean the mess.

Holds others to high standards. Casually contemptuous (albeit covertly) and dismissive of the ones that don't meet those.Disdainful of ppl she perceives as nerds,weird or lame. Passive aggressive.

My roommate and I got along pretty well at first, but the drama began when her boyfriend (who I'm 99% sure is an infj) and I began to get into intellectual discussions. They both take my differing opinions/theories as either personal attacks or debates when I'm just really trying to have a brainstorming session. Usually after we have one of our "debates" where we can't come to an agreement they go to their room and pout for a while and throw nasty looks at me for the rest of the day (especially the esfp). The part that I find crazy is that I never say anything particularly disrespectful like "that's dumb" or "you're ignorant" but they still take me being outspoken against their beliefs as disrespectful in some sense.
Totally. Btw why do you think is the INFJ is doing it?

Excerpt from what I wrote about my sister to a friend : people are either ''idiots'' ''limited'' ''tools'' ''indoctrinated'' ''emotionally shallow/handicapped'' for not sharing the same point of view,not willing to comply with her wishes (like all the time),willing to make exceptions for her(again like each and every time),or fail to acknowledge that ''she's an artist and does things in different ways'' or just plainly doesn't do certain things ..and often provokes conflict in such a way. Has a serious problem with following rules and procedures when it doesn't seem to make sense to her and esp with the ppl enforcing those,but does not look out to breach these just for kicks

Do you think it's because of the very nature of those opinions? Or something else?

With the esfp whenever I try to spark intellectual discussions or discuss theories (which as an intp is where I thrive) she either seems uninterested, gets frustrated quickly when I think differently or pose an idea she hasn't thought of before, or just completely shuts down. The crazy thing is she is very outspoken/ loud so I don't understand why me speaking up is always a problem to her (does she, as an esfp, think I am taking her shine or attention? Because I really don't want it -_-).
Yep. Been there. She most likely finds you irritating and/or stupid or idk... With all 3 of them I saw a weak tolerance for anything or anyone that they might find annoying,stupid or upsetting. When I was dating this ISFP and someone asked me my preference on something;what she perceived as being a dumb question. She instantly replied in my place as if it's just like something so obvious...

Another time someone remarking that something could fall out of my backpack ..like instantly,quietly(not agitated) ..''just .. leave him be'' (hard to translate the phrase to English)

Another time when I ''forgot'' to show up and someone came looking for me.. ''What does she want..''


Ahhh Sensors. I remember her staring me down while I was talking to a friend for like what 5-6 mins? and she was at a table with a group of friends maybe like 10 yards further away.. Then I went to her. (again hard to translate) 'at last.. where have been so long..??? ..Ive been calling you since like.. forever' (implying the eye contact)

And the other ISFP. Me playing Fifa,I see she comes online,want to exit(yes I'm awesome)the game instantly so I press the windows icon button,Pc kinda..temporarily crashes..black screen..have to wait.. maybe like 2-3 mins pass..lil msn window conv notification in the bottom right corner pops up Evelyne says: ''?????????'' & then a few more of those when I finally managed to exit fifa and opened the conv window.

But oh boy were they hot..

Now that I think about it , I have a really close friend who I do love being around that I'm about 80% sure is an esfp, and although I enjoy her company, she got mad at me for being "too critical" a lot. ( I mean, I don't see how suggesting for you to do your homework after crying for an hour about failing a class is "critical", but w/e -_-)
Totally cannot tolerate any hint of demands being placed on her. Neither in suggestive form. Sees it as misreading/misunderstanding of her emotional state and the situation at hand and takes it personally in a way. Like yeah ..just leave me alone

There are the only esfp's I've been forced to live with and/or have been around for a while (most my friends are esfj's , entp's, intj's, and entj's) so I don't want to generalize them all, but are these behaviors that anyone else has experienced? I really want to be able to get along better with this type w/o compromising too much of my personality.
It's the way they function. Best idea is to find other people to ''disrupt''. Trying to form a bond by means of gifts,compliments,saying how they had a point about xzy,doing things together you normally wouldn't care about,going along about their interests may not seem the best idea. They'll just keep crossing boundaries (feeling empowered by the way they have been affecting you) and coming back for more.
 

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I have an ESFP sister and ESFP female roommate and I have a lot of trouble getting along with them! They draw you in with their lively personalities, but at their worst they are petty, hold grudges, are selfish, and are extremely obnoxious. I just wanna yell "sit down some where and shut up for two seconds!!!" sometimes.

My roommate and I got along pretty well at first, but the drama began when her boyfriend (who I'm 99% sure is an infj) and I began to get into intellectual discussions. They both take my differing opinions/theories as either personal attacks or debates when I'm just really trying to have a brainstorming session. Usually after we have one of our "debates" where we can't come to an agreement they go to their room and pout for a while and throw nasty looks at me for the rest of the day (especially the esfp). The part that I find crazy is that I never say anything particularly disrespectful like "that's dumb" or "you're ignorant" but they still take me being outspoken against their beliefs as disrespectful in some sense.
Now am I right in thinking Ne likes to ask lots of questions or give lots of reasons why something may have happened the way it did?

To some people they perceive this as arguing with them. They do not realize it is just a brain storming session, and perhaps find it irritating. They may even see it as you justifying your position rather than an explanation of why or how. They could also feel you aren't listening to them or their point of view because your aren't acknowledging their side, rather disproving them.

Also realize, for Fi they are arguing about what matters to them. Fi is concerned with right/wrong and doesn't want to have to defend their values, nor do they want to have someone else criticize their values (which may be how they are perceiving you)

For the INFJ, with Fe higher up they may be upset because he thinks you're disrupting the harmony and think your purposely antagonizing the situation, he may also be upset because his role as the boyfriend is to side with his girlfriend.

With the esfp whenever I try to spark intellectual discussions or discuss theories (which as an intp is where I thrive) she either seems uninterested, gets frustrated quickly when I think differently or pose an idea she hasn't thought of before, or just completely shuts down. The crazy thing is she is very outspoken/ loud so I don't understand why me speaking up is always a problem to her (does she, as an esfp, think I am taking her shine or attention? Because I really don't want it -_-).
If you keep trying for an intellectual conversation she may find it irritating if you keep doing this.
Again she may perceive you speaking up as criticizing her opinions/view that is important to her. She is perhaps looking for people to agree or acknowledge her opinion not to debate it.


My sister is just extremely reckless and is constantly making the same mistakes, and gets mad at anyone who tries to give her tough love. She always gets mad at me for "judging her" and as a non - judging personality, I'm really just trying to look out for her. It seems like a common thread with esfp's -- I've noticed that they see tough love or constructive criticism as "judgement" or an attack. I notice this problem with esfj's too but for some reason with esfp's I find it more annoying.
Of course she is going to get upset at you "judging" her because Fi's job is to judge itself, no one else's, even if they think they are giving constructive critisism. To give any form of critisim is to judge their character, and to imply something is 'bad' translates to they are a 'bad' person.


Now that I think about it , I have a really close friend who I do love being around that I'm about 80% sure is an esfp, and although I enjoy her company, she got mad at me for being "too critical" a lot. ( I mean, I don't see how suggesting for you to do your homework after crying for an hour about failing a class is "critical", but w/e -_-)
When she's upset she is not looking for how to fix the problem. She wants reassurance, to know everything will be ok, that she isn't silly for failing. She wants someone to understand her feelings. She's not in the right frame of mind to solve the problem (unfortunately you strength here is to problem solve)


There are the only esfp's I've been forced to live with and/or have been around for a while (most my friends are esfj's , entp's, intj's, and entj's) so I don't want to generalize them all, but are these behaviors that anyone else has experienced? I really want to be able to get along better with this type w/o compromising too much of my personality.
Communication.
Have you told them that your intention isn't to debate or undermined them, but to understand the whole picture?

When they are upset (like your friend crying over failing), asking them if what they want is for you to listen? If yes making a hot beverage, or a simple hug and listening will help them to feel better. Also let them know when they are up to it you can help them make the situation better. This avoids giving advice when the ESFP thinks it s unwarranted, and let's your INTP strengths shine when they are up for it.

With your sister affirm you care about her and if she needs help you will be there for her. Unfortunately you need to let her make her mistakes as that is how she is going to learn. When she has fallen flat on her face she knows she has made a mistake and doesn't want someone telling her this. Again she wants affirmation and reassurance not tough love.

I'm trying to give you their perspective Of how I see the situation (which I could be wrong).
 

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It's your Ne. I don't really know how to explain it, but living 30 years with an INTP, and I only recently realized that it is her Ne that drives me crazy--oh, and our Se drives you Ne types crazy, too. ;-) For INXPs, Se is your vulnerable function, and for ISXPs, Ne is, but for ESFPs, it is a bit different, but still, when you start with theories that don't mesh with our Se, it makes us feel weak or incompetent--which collides with our weak Te, and that collision with Te is where we feel judged. And it is via our Se and Te that we will respond--and to you, it will feel like an attack, even if that wasn't our intent. Notice how it seems that they are tending to say "I feel judged", not "you are judging me". It is an expression of how they felt when you spoke, not a direct judgment on you. That said, for NTPs, you have Fe, so you feel like you are being judged when you weren't judging--although, because of your weak Fe, I fear that you tend to come off more judgmental than you realize, and that just complicates things more.

Next time you get that "I feel like you judged me", try simply saying, "I'm sorry. I don't want to judge you and don't want you to feel judged." and just stop with that, and see what happens.

I'll share something about how I feel when my wife does this to me. When she does this, it makes me feel like I'm a child, and she's the adult who has to tell me what to think and feel, or to "parentsplain" things to me. It feels like she thinks I'm an idiot and a child who needs her to tell me how things really are. It's a rather horrible thing to hear from one's wife, to be honest. I normally do fine with it, and ignore it, and move on, but sometimes it really gets under my skin.

If you really want to solve these problems, you need to learn to not share your opinions in such situations. I know you feel you must speak up--but you don't. You may think you have some wisdom to share--insight they don't understand, etc. but it is just such an attitude that cuts the most. Just leave it be. You don't need to have your say, and don't need to open your mouth. Just keep it shut, and life will be better. Really. You don't want to go down that rabbit hole, so don't start.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Now am I right in thinking Ne likes to ask lots of questions or give lots of reasons why something may have happened the way it did?

To some people they perceive this as arguing with them. They do not realize it is just a brain storming session, and perhaps find it irritating. They may even see it as you justifying your position rather than an explanation of why or how. They could also feel you aren't listening to them or their point of view because your aren't acknowledging their side, rather disproving them.

Also realize, for Fi they are arguing about what matters to them. Fi is concerned with right/wrong and doesn't want to have to defend their values, nor do they want to have someone else criticize their values (which may be how they are perceiving you)
I'm sorry if this is rude, but this all just seems extremely childish to me. From what I am getting from it, this is basically asking me to just "either approve or shut up", which is a vibe I get from her a lot. I'm not a really combative person, nor do I ask a lot of questions out of nowhere. What usually happens is we'll be having a perfectly fine, small talk conversation, then she'll make some broad judgement about some topic that doesn't really sound okay to me. [For example: small talks centers to current events and she'll say something like "I dont know why people don't understand that PROTESTING DOESN'T CHANGE ANYTHING". Then I'll say, "well....how can you say that when the civil rights movement- which was all protest based- occurred ?" and she will start to get flustered] I know everyone is titled to their opinions, but I don't think she understands that she is not entitled to everyone agreeing with her opinion.

I feel like it is unrealistic to expect to go through life without anyone questioning you, your thoughts, or your values. Or, rather, deeming anyone who does as an enemy. My whole confusion with this is that she will want everyone to agree with her, but will often jump in a conversation with the blatant "I don't see how that's true." or "You're wrong". When 1)I wasn't talking to you in the first place and 2)I NEVER blatantly say things like that to her, which if I did, I could definitely understand her taking offense to that.

Of course she is going to get upset at you "judging" her because Fi's job is to judge itself, no one else's, even if they think they are giving constructive critisism. To give any form of critisim is to judge their character, and to imply something is 'bad' translates to they are a 'bad' person.
Okay. So as a sister who loves her, I'm supposed to let her continue to drink and drive after a DUI (which almost caused her to lose custody of her kid in her divorce) and date an ex criminal who basically uses her for sex (which she has done before) without saying anything?

When she got her DUI, I didn't judge her or give her any tips at all. All I did was support her and give her love. After this whole ordeal, she is STILL falling back into the same patterns. Am I supposed to keep quiet? I probably would if she was single w/o child, but my niece deserves better. And heck, my sister deserves better too. I just want her to see that.

When she's upset she is not looking for how to fix the problem. She wants reassurance, to know everything will be ok, that she isn't silly for failing. She wants someone to understand her feelings. She's not in the right frame of mind to solve the problem (unfortunately you strength here is to problem solve)
Sorry if I made myself seem cold here. I was using crying sarcastically, if she were really that upset I definitely would have just listened and let her vent. I credit myself with being a good listener for an intp -- so much so that I have numerous esfj friends (and an esfj boyfriend of a year) which is usually not the case for intps. If someone is really sad I just listen, tell them I'm there for them, and tell the troubleshooting part of my computer brain to shut up.

In this case, she was whining about it. I let her vent, showed empathy, then asked "Well are you doing the assignments/ turning things in" and she was like "well no not really....but that's not the point". In my head I'm thinking "how is that NOT the point" but I don't say that out loud. Then I say, "Well, maybe you should try to get your assignments in quicker. If you need help I can definitely help you out" Her response was "I'm really not trying to be judged right now"...then the argument commenced.

For the INFJ, with Fe higher up they may be upset because he thinks you're disrupting the harmony and think your purposely antagonizing the situation, he may also be upset because his role as the boyfriend is to side with his girlfriend.
I definitely agree with this. I've noticed F types have more of a "defend people/ things/ ideas I love, no matter what, even if it's wrong" attitudes, while I have more of a "defend what makes sense, and point out anything that doesn't, even if its coming from the mouth of a person I love" attitude. I can see how this can cause problems.

Communication.
Have you told them that your intention isn't to debate or undermined them, but to understand the whole picture?
Sometimes, but I'll definitely make more of an effort to from now on.


When they are upset (like your friend crying over failing), asking them if what they want is for you to listen? If yes making a hot beverage, or a simple hug and listening will help them to feel better. Also let them know when they are up to it you can help them make the situation better. This avoids giving advice when the ESFP thinks it s unwarranted, and let's your INTP strengths shine when they are up for it.
I'm glad you've pointed this out because this is something I've definitely had to learn as an INTP. The thing about my room mate, and my sister, is that they will ask for advice, I'll give it, and then they'll reject it [quite rudely] actually. For example, the room mate is making fake blood for a project. It's not working out so she asks me "What should I do?" I say "maybe you should add more corn starch". She responds "That just makes it white. I need it to be a deeper red." I say "Well maybe you can add corn starch to make it thicker, then more food coloring after that to make it a deeper red again". She says "I don't think that's going to work" doesn't try it, then sits down and doesn't say anything for a while. Her boyfriend comes home, literally tells her the same thing, and she does it without contest -_-.

I'm sorry if I come off as rude/cold (common INTP problem) I'm just really trying to figure out SFP's. From what I'm getting from this and from them is that they want the world to accommodate them, but give no accommodation to others (for the same behavior they take issue with). They hate to be judged, but love judging. And anyone who calls them out for this behavior is an enemy.

A lot of your points did make me think. I'll try to put them into place at home and see if things change.
 

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It's your Ne. I don't really know how to explain it, but living 30 years with an INTP, and I only recently realized that it is her Ne that drives me crazy--oh, and our Se drives you Ne types crazy, too. ;-) For INXPs, Se is your vulnerable function, and for ISXPs, Ne is, but for ESFPs, it is a bit different, but still, when you start with theories that don't mesh with our Se, it makes us feel weak or incompetent--which collides with our weak Te, and that collision with Te is where we feel judged. And it is via our Se and Te that we will respond--and to you, it will feel like an attack, even if that wasn't our intent. Notice how it seems that they are tending to say "I feel judged", not "you are judging me". It is an expression of how they felt when you spoke, not a direct judgment on you. That said, for NTPs, you have Fe, so you feel like you are being judged when you weren't judging--although, because of your weak Fe, I fear that you tend to come off more judgmental than you realize, and that just complicates things more.

Next time you get that "I feel like you judged me", try simply saying, "I'm sorry. I don't want to judge you and don't want you to feel judged." and just stop with that, and see what happens.

I'll share something about how I feel when my wife does this to me. When she does this, it makes me feel like I'm a child, and she's the adult who has to tell me what to think and feel, or to "parentsplain" things to me. It feels like she thinks I'm an idiot and a child who needs her to tell me how things really are. It's a rather horrible thing to hear from one's wife, to be honest. I normally do fine with it, and ignore it, and move on, but sometimes it really gets under my skin.

If you really want to solve these problems, you need to learn to not share your opinions in such situations. I know you feel you must speak up--but you don't. You may think you have some wisdom to share--insight they don't understand, etc. but it is just such an attitude that cuts the most. Just leave it be. You don't need to have your say, and don't need to open your mouth. Just keep it shut, and life will be better. Really. You don't want to go down that rabbit hole, so don't start.
I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding what you are saying, but to me this just seems like you are telling me "shut up and allow myself to be run over". Do I really have no chance of getting along with them if I don't live my lie like that? Do I really just have to either agree and forsake myself, or shut up? If I were to tell an SFP "You don't need to have your say. You don't need to open your mouth" I would be the coldest bitch in the world. But since I'm an NTP I just always have to shut up an take it?
 

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I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding what you are saying, but to me this just seems like you are telling me "shut up and allow myself to be run over". Do I really have no chance of getting along with them if I don't live my lie like that? Do I really just have to either agree and forsake myself, or shut up? If I were to tell an SFP "You don't need to have your say. You don't need to open your mouth" I would be the coldest bitch in the world. But since I'm an NTP I just always have to shut up an take it?
Look. What you told us is that something happens to them, and you speak up and tell them what to do/think or how to react. You are the one injecting your perspective. Nobody is telling you to let yourself be walked over. You interject yourself, and then complain because they aren't happy about it. I'm telling you to not interject yourself needlessly--even if they ask for it. Just don't contribute to it. This has nothing to do with you allowing yourself to get walked on.
 

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Look. What you told us is that something happens to them, and you speak up and tell them what to do/think or how to react. You are the one injecting your perspective. Nobody is telling you to let yourself be walked over. You interject yourself, and then complain because they aren't happy about it. I'm telling you to not interject yourself needlessly--even if they ask for it. Just don't contribute to it. This has nothing to do with you allowing yourself to get walked on.
I really don't see how I said that at all. I never tell people HOW to think or HOW to react. I simply just tell them How I think or howI react. I'm really not trying to be combative here, and if that is how I'm coming off, I really apologize. I've just been holding a lot of this in (tell me if I'm wrong if that's not what you're suggesting - holding everything in) and it is driving me crazy. I feel like I am always expected to hold my tongue, while the SFP's in my life are celebrated for not holding theirs, even if they are being combative and interjecting.
 

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I really don't see how I said that at all. I never tell people HOW to think or HOW to react. I simply just tell them How I think or howI react.
That's not what you said:

My sister is just extremely reckless and is constantly making the same mistakes, and gets mad at anyone who tries to give her tough love. She always gets mad at me for "judging her" and as a non - judging personality, I'm really just trying to look out for her. It seems like a common thread with esfp's -- I've noticed that they see tough love or constructive criticism as "judgement" or an attack. I notice this problem with esfj's too but for some reason with esfp's I find it more annoying.

Now that I think about it , I have a really close friend who I do love being around that I'm about 80% sure is an esfp, and although I enjoy her company, she got mad at me for being "too critical" a lot. ( I mean, I don't see how suggesting for you to do your homework after crying for an hour about failing a class is "critical", but w/e -_-)[/quote]

"tough love" is telling someone how to act. and suggesting to someone how to do their homework is not just telling how you would react. This is you interjecting yourself into their affairs.



I'm really not trying to be combative here, and if that is how I'm coming off, I really apologize. I've just been holding a lot of this in (tell me if I'm wrong if that's not what you're suggesting - holding everything in) and it is driving me crazy. I feel like I am always expected to hold my tongue, while the SFP's in my life are celebrated for not holding theirs, even if they are being combative and interjecting.
Look. You have two choices. Either live with the consequences of sharing your opinion, or not sharing. You don't really have any other choice. You can't _make_ them do what you want, or think like you think or anything like that. The most you can do is _understand_ how they think or rather why they may misunderstand what you say.

And to that latter end, I gave you a rather full explanation of how your Ne collides with their Se, and how it impacts the other functions in the stack. If you can learn how these things work, you might be able to learn _how_ to say things in a way that doesn't get their goat every time. I don't know about ESFPs, but ISFPs are not exactly the most vocal people on the planet. We prefer fewer words, both speaking and hearing. The only people I generally truly open up to are those I think I can trust to not rip apart everything I say--I am terrible at expressing myself, and tend to make lots of mistakes in my first attempts--this morning, in fact, i said something that was just totally off the wall, and nothing like what I wanted, but the words that came out are what came out. My wife was patient, and recognized immediately that my Ni was acting up again, and waited for me to get a hold of myself, and repeat myself properly, with the right words. In the past, she used to be quick to comment, and not give me a chance--and even now, sometimes, she forgets and interjects before I have a chance to correct myself. We are not like you. We are not able to formulate our thoughts before we speak, and we are not able to express ourselves as well as you. You will always be at a huge advantage to us when talking. And that advantage can be quite debilitating for the SFP. You have no idea how it feels--except maybe that their emotional expressiveness is the mirror of your thinking expressiveness. You feel devalued when they tell you boldly how they feel. They feel the exact same way when you share your thinking. It's actually a nasty bit of a communication gap.

Socionics calls the ESFP relationship with the INTP a relation of conflict, and with the ISFP, a super-ego relationship, which is a fancy way of saying a couple notches down from conflict. ;-) Because we are both introverts, it takes a lot for conflict to develop. We just tend to both brush over things until we no longer can, and then the problems arise.

Again, the key here, is not to ask what to do, but try to understand, and with understanding, you will learn yourself what to do. That's the take-away.
 
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