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It seems a lot of times INTPs are stereotyped as great debaters, but for some reason I often feel I'm limited by the "bandwidth" of modern means of communication, like talking or even writing. Trying to get my ideas out of my brain and into verbal or written form feels like uploading a video using a dial-up modem.

And I tend not to think quickly on my feet (but that makes me a little better at online debates vs real time ones comparatively.) I often spontaneously come up with great rebuttals to an argument I had many hours ago.
 

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I'm usually just fine having a verbal debate or anything of the sort. It's casually talking that I have an issue with. But you're not alone in the department of 'having something truly incredible to say in response several hours after it's over with.'

I'm sure it's just relative, not everybody is the same.
 

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It's possible that your verbal intelligence lags behind your reasoning skills. Being able to translate abstract concepts into concise sentences that anyone can understand is an art in of itself, although you could probably get better at it by practising. I've spent so much time on various forums debating various things that I always know how to distil my argument in a few sentences that even the dumbest person can understand. Only for them to scurry away and refuse to change their mind or update their point of view with new information, as usual haha
 

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EvilShoutyRudolph
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Though I do struggle with trying to communicate my ideas and thoughts verbally or in written form(hence why I tend to edit my posts a lot), but I do not let it stop me from debating(despite me having crappy debating skills). I have an easier time communicating using visuals(since that is how I mainly think). Which is why I also have trouble explaining what I know to others because I just have trouble putting it into words and my friends have acknowledged this too.
 

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I definitely think you aren’t alone in that department. Although I find it easy to convey ideas through writing, it’s near impossible vocally. My INFJ friend tells me the moment I’m on a roll with an idea it’s impossible to follow what’s I’m saying. I don’t know what it’s like for others to follow my though process but apparently it’s pretty hard.

I avoid them like the plague. Does that make me really bad at them? Or really good?
I don’t think avoiding debates makes you bad at them, nor does it make you really good at them. It just means you avoid them.
 

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Yes. Because as you stated, I struggle to think 'quickly' on my feet. I'm also not the most strongly opinionated person and hate coming up with counter-arguments. It would be even worse if it was a large group debate as well..since I'm not a fan of attention.
 

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The problem is the western cultural ideal of being quick-witted.

I've grown up a wee bit and find myself much more capable of debating now. The solution is to embrace the almost philosophical, slow-to-speak style which is admittedly an annoyingly pseudo-intellectual trait at times, but fuck it, it works.

I live with an ENFP who pretty much has a short circuit between his brain and his tongue. There's absolutely no way I can debate as rapidly (and messily) as he does. Slow and steady wins the race.
 

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I need time to construct and explore my arguments and most debating is done on the basis of speed. I can think quickly on my feet and give arguments from the top of my head but that's most bullshitting. Funny thing is that it is more convincing for most people than a well thought out argument (which is usually much more convoluted). I do share the "oh shit that would have been perfect response to what happened 4 hours/days/months ago" epiphanies :D
 

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It often does not matter how good you are at debating as much as how good the other person is at understanding or being humble enough to say, "Oh, I may have been wrong", instead of getting defensive when they see they have no counter for a good point and just go off on you. But I'll grant that we all hate that moment when somebody says something and our momentum on our case is brought to a halt, and in our head we're like "Well, shit, I got no answer for that."

But when you know, absolutely, without a doubt, that you are right, and they won't budge on it, there's this:

 

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I'm no good at arguments/debates. When I was younger, this meant that I gave in easily because I couldn't prove that my way was better (or at least suited me better). Now I don't give in, but I don't bother trying to win the other person over to my way of thinking.

This is especially true in person; I just don't think fast enough.
 

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A few days ago, I went to the mall with an ISTP friend. I was disgusted when I saw he had bought a bunch of Coca Cola Zero.

Me: "Right... I forgot you were one of those. For such a reasonable dude, you really have shit tastes."
ISTP: "What are you talking about? This is THE shit. Much better than the normal."
Me: "Pfffft...."
ISTP: "And it's healthier! Normal soda gives you an overload of sugar, but this is basically like taking a glass of milk. It's been made studies of this, you know?"
Me (starts getting unsure): "It still ruins your teeth."
ISTP: "Meh. I have good enough dental hygiene."
Me: "... hmm. Well, at least I gotta give you that you can argue for it."
ISTP: "Thank you."

And five seconds later, I facepalm. "Healthier", wtf?! But it was too late to return to the debate with any dignity. If it had been an online debate, I would've destroyed him. This is why I must practice arguments in my sleep.
 

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I need time to construct and explore my arguments and most debating is done on the basis of speed. I can think quickly on my feet and give arguments from the top of my head but that's most bullshitting. Funny thing is that it is more convincing for most people than a well thought out argument (which is usually much more convoluted). I do share the "oh shit that would have been perfect response to what happened 4 hours/days/months ago" epiphanies :D
And your brain just squirms in inside your skull for a split second in which you can't help but wish you could go back and give that response.
And then, later in the day, you encounter a debate where your perfect response would've been ideal...but upon trying to recall it you can't, because all you can recall is how much you wanted to go back to the first debate to give out the perfect response.

The human brain... so close and yet so far.

And five seconds later, I facepalm. "Healthier", wtf?! But it was too late to return to the debate with any dignity. If it had been an online debate, I would've destroyed him. This is why I must practice arguments in my sleep.
I call it the Season effect.

 

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Why do I sense a sexual innuendo in there? Besides your signature, I mean. And besides me having a keen eye for that sort of thing. Probably.
Well, maybe this will add more context:




I mean if we really go deep we could find all forms of innuendo in that post alone (there's a shotgun for crying out loud) but I wasn't really thinking that way when I wrote it.
I think it's wishful thinking on your end, but then again you could argue saying this is wishful thinking on my end. What came first, the chicken or the egg? Who knows?
 

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I mean if we really go deep we could find all forms of innuendo in that post alone (there's a shotgun for crying out loud) but I wasn't really thinking that way when I wrote it.
I think it's wishful thinking on your end, but then again you could argue saying this is wishful thinking on my end. What came first, the chicken or the egg? Who knows?
Was that the logic behind it? How a debate completely turns into POV with no more argumentative leverage left? Because yeah, I'm always prepared for that when I shit on people's tastes and stuff like that. But I still don't see why the bolded was bolded though.

Wishful thinking? You may be right. Tapping season is right around the corner, or so I hear.
Nah, but it would always solve some confusion when you can just write something confusing off as simple-minded like that.
 
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