[Monsieur Melancholy]

I'm curious as to why this is. Any explanations or insight?

 

[Debaser]

Order of the functions. Sure, they use the same functions, but the way they are prioritized is different. Se-Ti-Fe-Ni is lightyears away from Ni-Fe-Ti-Se. Ni is not at all a common dominant function. Because it is inferior in the ESTP, it works on a much more subconscious and weaker level, rather than being abundantly obvious like in the INFJ. Similarly, Se is a quite common dominant.

 

[peoplesayimanahole]

Survival of the fittest? Evolution and what not.

 

[Teybo]

I'm curious as to why this is. Any explanations or insight?

The MBTI tends to mistype NJ's as SJ's or NP's, and, there seems to be a correlation between N/S and T/F as well, such that NF's tend to mistype as NT's. Put it all together and you have INFJs being mistyped as ISFJ, ISTJ, INFP, INTJ, or INTP.

It is literally the case that the MBTI will find fewer INFJ's than any other type, based merely on the statistical properties of the test.

 

[Debaser]

The MBTI tends to mistype NJ's as SJ's or NP's, and, there seems to be a correlation between N/S and T/F as well, such that NF's tend to mistype as NT's. Put it all together and you have INFJs being mistyped as ISFJ, ISTJ, INFP, INTJ, or INTP.

It is literally the case that the MBTI will find fewer INFJ's than any other type, based merely on the statistical properties of the test.

And here I was thinking that it was actually the other way around and a bunch of SJs mistyped themselves as NJs. And I still suspect that to be true. Especially when one considers that most people probably have not actually paid for the "official" MBTI test, and are instead going by independent research. Also, this paper does not seem to be as concrete or infallible in its conclusion as you seem to be suggesting, though I admit I did not actually read it all.

 

[Teybo]

And here I was thinking that it was actually the other way around and a bunch of SJs mistyped themselves as NJs. And I still suspect that to be true. Especially when one considers that most people probably have not actually paid for the "official" MBTI test, and are instead going by independent research. Also, this paper does not seem to be as concrete or infallible in its conclusion as you seem to be suggesting, though I admit I did not actually read it all.

... Um, are you serious?

 

[monemi]

Because being an ESTP is a more convenient way to go through life. Lower stress levels, easier to get a job when you have good social skills, cope well with trauma etc... I'm more surprised that there aren't a lot more ESTP's.

 

[Debaser]

... Um, are you serious?

Absolutely. I'm not accusing you of mistyping yourself or anything or saying that this is extremely abundant, but I have frequently encountered (not necessarily on this site) MANY "INTJs" who are in actuality ISTJs. How do I know this? They are anal retentive about details, strictly follow the rules and have set routines. They are also not particularly abstract and have no apparent Ni. Yet they claim themselves to be INTJs. Basically, you are claiming that NJs are under-typed. I'm saying that, if anything, they are still overtyped. It's all in the functions. And a lot of people who type themselves ignore or do not understand the functions.

 

[monemi]

Absolutely. I'm not accusing you of mistyping yourself or anything or saying that this is extremely abundant, but I have frequently encountered (not necessarily on this site) MANY "INTJs" who are in actuality ISTJs. How do I know this? They are anal retentive about details, strictly follow the rules and have set routines. They are also not particularly abstract and have no apparent Ni. Yet they claim themselves to be INTJs. Basically, you are claiming that NJs are under-typed. I'm saying that, if anything, they are still overtyped. It's all in the functions. And a lot of people who type themselves ignore or do not understand the functions.

So you know peoples types better than they know their own? Anyone on this thread or PerC in general that you believe is mistyped?

I'm curious when posters seem so sure that they know better than individuals know themselves. It seems to me that most of us have a public 'face' and private face. What we really feel and think and believe isn't something for the public to consume.

 

[Debaser]

So you know peoples types better than they know their own? Anyone on this thread or PerC in general that you believe is mistyped?

I'm curious when posters seem so sure that they know better than individuals know themselves. It seems to me that most of us have a public 'face' and private face. What we really feel and think and believe isn't something for the public to consume.

No no no no. I'm not even just talking about the internet, but people I know in real life. And yes, I can say that I might have a better idea of what functions they use than people who have just been introduced to the subject and barely know anything about the 4-letter MBTI code, let alone the cognitive functions. I'm talking about people who take a lousy online test once, glance over the descriptions and declare that type as their own. Not exactly a lot of thought put into it. And besides, I really *suspect* they have mistyped themselves. It's possible there is more to it in some cases than I know, you are right about that. I can't say for certain, but I can make educated guesses. There is a reason the INxJ types are the rarest types. A lot of that has to do with dominant Ni, which is a pretty blatant thing for most people, and is also pretty rare.

 

[monemi]

No no no no. I'm not even just talking about the internet, but people I know in real life. And yes, I can say that I might have a better idea of what functions they use than people who have just been introduced to the subject and barely know anything about the 4-letter MBTI code, let alone the cognitive functions. I'm talking about people who take a lousy online test once, glance over the descriptions and declare that type as their own. Not exactly a lot of thought put into it. And besides, I really *suspect* they have mistyped themselves. It's possible there is more to it in some cases than I know, you are right about that. I can't say for certain, but I can make educated guesses. There is a reason the INxJ types are the rarest types. A lot of that has to do with dominant Ni, which is a pretty blatant thing for most people, and is also pretty rare.

I'm still only just learning cognitive functions, but the ESTP description is actually pretty close to my own personality. Most of the ESTP women seem to be a lot more tom boyish than me. There are a few differences, but it fits better than the other types.

What is the reason for dominant Ni being so rare then?

 

[Debaser]

I'm still only just learning cognitive functions, but the ESTP description is actually pretty close to my own personality. Most of the ESTP women seem to be a lot more tom boyish than me. There are a few differences, but it fits better than the other types.

What is the reason for dominant Ni being so rare then?

It's just something that does not come naturally to most people the way it does for Ni dominants. These are the people who are most likely to have "psychic" like abilities and just "instinctively" know things. Ideas and answers will just come to them instinctively and seemingly effortlessly. It's a powerful function, and generally works on a subconscious level in those who have it. It is extremely prevalent and near-conscious comparatively in those with dominant Ni, however. But those people are rare.

 

[monemi]

It's just something that does not come naturally to most people the way it does for Ni dominants. These are the people who are most likely to have "psychic" like abilities and just "instinctively" know things. Ideas and answers will just come to them instinctively and seemingly effortlessly. It's a powerful function, and generally works on a subconscious level in those who have it. It is extremely prevalent and near-conscious comparatively in those with dominant Ni, however. But those people are rare.

But that's not what I'm asking.

'What is the reason for dominant Ni being so rare then?'

There must be a reason, right? I'll go with instinctive, because I don't believe in psychic anything.

 

[Debaser]

But that's not what I'm asking.

'What is the reason for dominant Ni being so rare then?'

There must be a reason, right? I'll go with instinctive, because I don't believe in psychic anything.

What's the reason there are more S dominants in general? I guess it's got something to do with reproduction and maybe even evolution, as has been suggested above. That is, in the past people with strong Se or Si were more likely to survive - awareness of surroundings, attention to detail and noticing consistent patterns, following routines and exerting caution. These things meant life or death. N types, especially Ni, would not have been seen as quite as useful. But if you look at some ancient societies, a lot of the "psychics" and "wizards" were probably Ni dominants, seen as unique for their uncanny and "supernatural" insights. But again, this is all just speculation on my part. I will say, however, that I think we're witnessing something of a shift to N types becoming more prevalent in our more technological societies. That could also provide some explanation.

 

[Doc Dangerstein]

in·tu·i·tion (

n, -ty

-)
n.1.a. The act or faculty of knowing or sensing without the use of rational processes; immediate cognition. See Synonyms at reason.
b. Knowledge gained by the use of this faculty; a perceptive insight.

2. A sense of something not evident or deducible; an impression.


Observe how the definition suggests that intuition is an unconscious process. I often defined my intuition as unconscious reasoning, connection of patterns which upon sufficient reflection I can analyse and communicate to others. Well, usually. Observe the paradox of this: intuition is by nature unconscious yet the intuitive types use it as a conscious process. Wouldn't it make more sense for consciousness to be aware of the waking state and not the surreal world of associations and dreams?

... and, why are there so few redheads?

ps, monemi does make an excellent point. Being extroverted is not full disclosure. It's something I've had to explain time and again to my introverted friends. I value my thoughts and my privacy, and, I choose as to what I want other people to know and what I keep to myself. I don't particularly wear a mask in public because I'm not in a position where I need one; although, I do ask more conservative around some clients more so then others.

 

[Random Ness]

Survival. Put an ESTP into a forest and they'll come out with two dead deers slung over their shoulders, ready to cook. Put an INFJ into a forest and they'll come out saying they found enlightenment, but they're starved, dirty, and dying.

 

[Rainbow]

No no no no. I'm not even just talking about the internet, but people I know in real life. And yes, I can say that I might have a better idea of what functions they use than people who have just been introduced to the subject and barely know anything about the 4-letter MBTI code, let alone the cognitive functions. I'm talking about people who take a lousy online test once, glance over the descriptions and declare that type as their own. Not exactly a lot of thought put into it. And besides, I really *suspect* they have mistyped themselves. It's possible there is more to it in some cases than I know, you are right about that. I can't say for certain, but I can make educated guesses. There is a reason the INxJ types are the rarest types. A lot of that has to do with dominant Ni, which is a pretty blatant thing for most people, and is also pretty rare.

Listen to me, kid. You are definitely not an ENTP. You've got to be an ISFJ or INTP. THere's no way you're ENTP. You aren't anything like them. I could list a bunch of reasons why but I don't go that low, unlike you *cough* yeah I said it. You really need to chage your type on your profile before I get even more mad.




note to mods: totally joking

 

[Doom]

Sexual selection.

 

[monemi]

What's the reason there are more S dominants in general? I guess it's got something to do with reproduction and maybe even evolution, as has been suggested above. That is, in the past people with strong Se or Si were more likely to survive - awareness of surroundings, attention to detail and noticing consistent patterns, following routines and exerting caution. These things meant life or death. N types, especially Ni, would not have been seen as quite as useful. But if you look at some ancient societies, a lot of the "psychics" and "wizards" were probably Ni dominants, seen as unique for their uncanny and "supernatural" insights. But again, this is all just speculation on my part. I will say, however, that I think we're witnessing something of a shift to N types becoming more prevalent in our more technological societies. That could also provide some explanation.

I thought personality types weren't inherited? If so, there must be something in modern society that has a bigger payoff for Se/Si over Ne/Ni during development in childhood. If N types are becoming more common in a tech driven society, doesn't that further suggest that it's less evolutionary and more effected by surroundings?

in·tu·i·tion(

n, -ty

-)
n.1.a. The act or faculty of knowing or sensing without the use of rational processes; immediate cognition. See Synonyms at reason.
b. Knowledge gained by the use of this faculty; a perceptive insight.

2. A sense of something not evident or deducible; an impression.


Observe how the definition suggests that intuition is an unconscious process. I often defined my intuition as unconscious reasoning, connection of patterns which upon sufficient reflection I can analyse and communicate to others. Well, usually. Observe the paradox of this: intuition is by nature unconscious yet the intuitive types use it as a conscious process. Wouldn't it make more sense for consciousness to be aware of the waking state and not the surreal world of associations and dreams?

... and, why are there so few redheads?

ps, monemi does make an excellent point. Being extroverted is not full disclosure. It's something I've had to explain time and again to my introverted friends. I value my thoughts and my privacy, and, I choose as to what I want other people to know and what I keep to myself. I don't particularly wear a mask in public because I'm not in a position where I need one; although, I do ask more conservative around some clients more so then others.

No one goes through life consciously fully aware they are thinking through sensing. I think sensing and intuition are just things that intrinsically happen.

 

[INFJAnimal]

We're much better at hiding.

All you have to do with an ESTP is say. "Hey...dude...there's a party going on, hot-dogs n'burgers...and free beer." You got 'em. :laughing: