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I have an ISFJ father and xSTJ mother. I am completely overwhelmed by who suffocating they are. Can't wait to move out.

For those with SJ parents/guardians, I have a couple of questions for you:

How do you manage to live day to day without getting pissed off at all the rules they impose?
How was your childhood?
How old are you now and your current relationship with them?
 

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My dad is an ISTJ, but I'm not sure how strong of one. I feel like my mom (ENFP) had quite some influence on him in terms of becoming more lenient with rules, but then again my dad always broke the rules when he was younger stating you're not breaking them if you're not getting caught. He almost sounds like an SP in that regard, but then I think about how religiously strict he is...definitely an ISTJ.

I manage. I "technically" still live at home, but I think I'm there a total of 5 waking hours per week, as I have three jobs and a decent social life. There's little things that get to me, but we tend to logically argue it out to where rules stay or go. We disagree on things like if I'm able to get certain labor jobs done, or my questionable ways of trying to make enough money to move out.

My childhood was pretty good until I was a teenager. My dad's an alcoholic and apparently when inebriated he's mentally abusive. He's stopped drinking luckily, and I'm 22 and we have a good relationship going on. I prefer dealing with him over my mom most times.
 

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I want to say both my parents are ESTJ,ESFJ, cause I seem to get along with them great.
 

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I have an ISFJ father and xSTJ mother. I am completely overwhelmed by who suffocating they are. Can't wait to move out.

For those with SJ parents/guardians, I have a couple of questions for you:

How do you manage to live day to day without getting pissed off at all the rules they impose?
How was your childhood?
How old are you now and your current relationship with them?
Jetplane, first off, congrats on knowing what is gong on. Wish I did at your age. The value of MBTI in your life must be/should be huge.

I have an ISTJ brother and had an ISFJ wife. Both were abusive to me.

So let us start with the first thing to do: don't argue. Guardians love a fight. So don't ever go after them. Live your life and wait for them to come after you. When they start in on you about rules, say something to the effect of, "Weren't their rules and laws about putting blacks into slavery? Why are your laws and rules any different than theirs?" What you can expect next is an extremely abusive answer or even a physical response. Once you get the guardians into verbal beat down or physical action, you have won, and you know why? You have provoked the guardian into violence, and they will beat the crap out of themselves ten times harder than you even could. As the saying goes, moisten, lather, rinse, repeat. So with guardians, wait for them to correct you, provoke response, expect response, and wait for them to beat themselves up, repeat.

On top of that ,you make yourself as scarce as possible to get out of their judgments if guardians are in a position of authority over you.

When you are above or even with a guardian, that is when you fight. My ex started playing games with our sex life, was verbally and physically abusive, and didn't work when she could have. I started seeing other women and when she found out, she accused me of infidelity. I told her that I didn't consider it that I was cheating on my wife because she wasn't acting like one. Truth is that my wife wasn't my supportive half, she was a fucking burden, an emotional anchor dragging me down.

Even though I made all the money, and the ex is a nurse and could have worked, she filed suit in an attempt to get well over half of it. Did it matter that she was abusive? Lawyers said no. Did it matter that she got a job the very day she filed for divorce? Of course not. The only thing that mattered was that I was spending money on other women, and half of it, was hers.

Thing is while the ex was all convinced of the law and rules, I knew how the law really worked. So I told her, "Do you want 50% of X or 60% of nothing? Because that is what it is going to be after the lawyers carve up our estate." She didn't believe me until she got the first bill from her lawyer. The legal system really exists to benefit those in law enforcement and the legal system. That is the reality an ESTP can see and a guardian can't at least not right away.

Childhood and marriage had parts where they were good and bad. My ISTJ brother was an abusive pain in the ass, but God did we have fun playing sports. I hate to admit it but he was probably the most influential person in my life, both good and bad. You have to understand though that while an ESTP can take unconventional routes to success, IJs have to win on a straight and narrow path. Guardians were using typewriters and riding horses and trying to be the best typists and horsemen while other types were using word processors and driving cars. Every holiday, my ISTJ brother tells stories of how lucky I have been with regards to money and success because I have done better than he has.

The wife was great when she had a narrow path and given set goals. Once we had a kid and she could use our son up as an excuse to not do anything she wanted, things were awful. Where I live kids can decide who they want to live with, and my son chose to live with me. It is helped my son out a lot bc she was abusive to him too. That is where you ultimately want to get to be. Now not only I can say in so many words to my ex, "Hey, you are going to be an abusive bitch, you can stay by yourself.", but my son can too. The difference between me and my ex is that when I correct our son, I do so for his own best interests and not out of some power trip or need to dominate. And we have a great time together.

To me, people who don't have kids are missing out. Guardians look at kids as a burden, and artisans look at them as a joy. That is another thing that pissed me off about my ex. It was one kid and then "I am done." The ex was constantly bitching about raising our son, the one job she had, "All you want to do is have fun, and I do all the work." Well, guess who is doing all the "work" now? And never mind the fact that I have paid every dime of what has gone to fill my son's needs.

As for your last question, I am in my 40s now and the relationship I have with both my ex and brother I would describe as friendly acquaintances. The irony is that my best friends and employees are guardians. With these folks, I laugh at and pick fun at our differences, and they do the same to me, and it is so damned much fun. Maybe you can get there with your parents, but I doubt it. Guardians take their roles as parents way too seriously. I repeat then the best advice is to just make yourself as scarce as possible with them for now. It may change when you get older and don't have to rely on them for anything but just stay scarce for now.
 

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@elvis2010 - Wow! That's a side to ISFJ that I have never seen. I've been married to an ISFJ for 10 years and I'm in my early 30's. I'm really enjoying it. I guess when they're bad, they're really bad, huh? When we got married, he Wanted kids and a sahw. Very much with the traditional values. We've negotiated and he's relaxed. I wasn't ready to give up work until the third kid. I tried but after a year back at work, it was just chaos and work was getting more demanding. Not less. He's thrilled. He hated the kids in daycare but wasn't willing to live on my income and be a stay at home Dad. :rolleyes: Like I said, traditional. But he's had to deal with me and traveling. I grew up traveling. I worked in aviation for a long time. I don't always plan it in advance. The words he dreads from my lips in a foreign country: Let's get lost! But he's learned to let go of the day to day (I do it better) and I've learned to let go of long term planning (he does it better).

I admire and respect him. ISFJ's aren't always abusive.
@Jetlane48 - I find "feel" words work better with my husband. Maybe that would help with communication? Feelings aren't really right r wrong. They just are. It's what you do with those feelings that are right and wrong.
 
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@elvis2010 whoa now it sounds like you have had horrible, i repeat, horrible experiences with guardians. Most of my family is comprised of them. I absolutely despise the ones in my immediate family (to be precise - my father, mother, and my two brothers) the other siblings I can sort of get along with. My sister is probably another ESTP and my 5 year old brother i suspect to be an SP. You make me believe that they are nothing but trouble, but it doesn't mean that all guardians are like the ones we described. The only reason I despise my parents so much is the amount of rules the impose on me. It's unbearable. I don't like being told what to do and I dislike their rules in general because for example, no one is "supposed to go to church on a Sunday like Normal People" but at least, that's what they believe. They are too traditional for me and I can't wait to leave. I don't know how you managed to keep a friendly demeanor towards both the SJs in your life.
@Tawanda - I hope everything works out for the better. Your life doesn't sound that complicated. Seriously.
@monemi - My entire family doesn't use "feeling". My dad is like the super ISFJ. He is totally putting his God and religion and relationship with christ in front of EVERYTHING in his life. I always get dragged to church on sunday and I hate it. It's an hour of not accomplishing anything productive. Such a waste of time when I could be at work working or what have you. Maybe your husband isn't as religious as others? Consider yourself lucky :(
 

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@monemi - My entire family doesn't use "feeling". My dad is like the super ISFJ. He is totally putting his God and religion and relationship with christ in front of EVERYTHING in his life. I always get dragged to church on sunday and I hate it. It's an hour of not accomplishing anything productive. Such a waste of time when I could be at work working or what have you. Maybe your husband isn't as religious as others? Consider yourself lucky :(
He can be a bit uptight. There aren't any uptight people in my family. Maybe we're void of SJ's? Lot's of them back home in England. They were always so much fun!

"Don't touch that."
"Why not?"
"Long boring explanation that doesn't make sense."
"So don't touch that button?"
"Never touch that button."
"That button right there?"
"Yes! That button! Right there. Don't touch it."
"I'm sorry, I have to."

Husband gets all flustered and cute. Again! Again! More button's! He's loosened up a bit, but God he's still so much fun! There are limits, but still, what is not to love about a flustered SJ?

ETA: He's very much a Christian with a personal relationship with Jesus. At first it was just interesting, but with time, I admire that he has his faith and it is unchanging. He's consistent and grounding for me. When we were dating, I hadn't stayed in one place more than 3 months. He naturally stays in one place effortlessly. I like that.
 

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@elvis2010 whoa now it sounds like you have had horrible, i repeat, horrible experiences with guardians. Most of my family is comprised of them. I absolutely despise the ones in my immediate family (to be precise - my father, mother, and my two brothers) the other siblings I can sort of get along with. My sister is probably another ESTP and my 5 year old brother i suspect to be an SP. You make me believe that they are nothing but trouble, but it doesn't mean that all guardians are like the ones we described. The only reason I despise my parents so much is the amount of rules the impose on me. It's unbearable. I don't like being told what to do and I dislike their rules in general because for example, no one is "supposed to go to church on a Sunday like Normal People" but at least, that's what they believe. They are too traditional for me and I can't wait to leave. I don't know how you managed to keep a friendly demeanor towards both the SJs in your life.
Nah, the church thing is because ISFJs are low in oxytocin. Oxytocin is a brain chemical that helps remove the pain from memories. What that means is that ISFJs remember when you hurt them 10 years ago like yesterday. When you go to church, you make more of that chemical and it is imperative that ISFJs go to church to be happy then. ESTPs are spiritual and not religious. I actually tired going and couldn't take it. My Ti and Se were screaming me down. LOL. Church is just a place where some types go to get a group high, and people pay to get stoned albeit in a healthy way. So there is no fighting it. ISFJs can't be healthy without church, and they think you can't either.

Maybe you can take it upon yourself to be the smarmy ESTP smart ass and figure out how best to cash in. Think of yourself as the only living person in a room full of zombies and how best to get the zombies to do what you want. Whatever you do, take nothing said in church seriously. The themes of the Bible are precious, and I use them every day, but you can use the Bible to justify anything, and these people, mostly guardians and idealists, typically do just that. So use them too. Say you are going God's work when tying your shoes and expect others to reward for doing so. Read scripture while trying to get into a girl's pants. Don't think these assholes aren't doing it. I had a church member quote scripture to my wife trying to get her to divorce me. This person was trying to get her to dump me and marry a pastor. Seriously.

There was a great book called Pimp by Iceberg Slim. The senior pimp mentoring Iceberg told him, "I thought you were going to be a mitt man (This was the 40s ghetto term for preacher. I guess it was because preachers always had their hands out.)", but Iceberg took the more honorable way out and became a pimp.

I only mentioned the negative with guardians. Yes, their rules are a pain in the ass and they are always hypocrites to some degree and live to blame others for their shortcomings and dump work on other types, but guardians are loyal, practical, dependable, and can be a ton of fun. Yes, ISFJs are a ROYAL pain, but your father is probably doing little things in your life that you won't appreciate until you are gone.

ISTJs are a pain too. They could make Michael Jordan, who is probably ISTJ, doubt whether he was any good at basketball, but they are crazy loyal too. My best friends have almost always been ISTJs. One of my best friends is an ISTJ surgeon, and when he found out my crazy ex froze my assets, he said to me, "Do you need me to wire you $25,000?" ESTPs are always looking for bigger and better: more money, the best food, the hottest sex ETC, and when you reach for the stars, you are going to crash and burn at times. That is what the IJ guardians bring, loyalty, and you don't know how important that will be until you are down.
 

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Hi. Your ISTP cousin here. I have an ESTJ mother and and ISTJ father, and my only brother is an ISFJ. I'm in my 30s, support myself, and am no longer obligated to be obedient to my parents, but here's my experience:

My parents really didn't impose that many rules and the ones they did have were reasonable. What bothered me more was the focus on doing the right things. It was like, as long as you dot your Is and cross your Ts, show up on time, punch the clock, and check the right boxes, life is grand. I'm not inclined to be concerned with those things, and to me a fulfilling life is something very, very different, so we've basically never understood each other, and I always felt like I was missing out when I saw other kids and families doing cool stuff I longed to do. I still wish that they had at least signed me up for the things I really really really wanted to do (karate, gymnastics, swim team, a musical instrument I liked) rather than the things that every kid does (soccer, scouts, a musical instrument I didn't like), but it's typical of xSTJs to not be understanding of people who are different: my mother especially thinks everyone should just be normal, like her, and everything would be just fine. Functionally, it makes perfect sense that an ESTJ thinks that way (Te-Si with no Fe and inferior Fi), so I don't blame her. She's a good woman and an excellent mother.

I am grateful for having the world's most reliable parents ever. I can count on them for anything; I can mention a favor to my mother just in passing and next time I talk to her she's done it for me. If she says she'll do something I don't have to even wonder if I should remind her: it's not necessary. She and I have learned to accept each other as we are, and most of the time we have a conflict now we end up teasing each other and laughing at our differences.
 

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I am grateful for having the world's most reliable parents ever. I can count on them for anything; I can mention a favor to my mother just in passing and next time I talk to her she's done it for me. If she says she'll do something I don't have to even wonder if I should remind her: it's not necessary. She and I have learned to accept each other as we are, and most of the time we have a conflict now we end up teasing each other and laughing at our differences.
I think my parents are both SP's. Reliable? Sort of. They aren't critical and they're optimistic. They were cheerleaders. But we had feast and famine conditions. Frequently in foreign countries and if/when we got ripped off sometimes, rent might not get paid or dinner might not be had. Sometimes, they had a great gig, with fine dining, beautiful terrace over a beach and a driver. Sometimes, it might not be safe for kids and I'd get dumped at my grandparents like a suitcase they couldn't be bothered with. It wasn't abusive or really bad. More good than bad, but I crave that ability to be consistent.
 
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